On Wed, Dec 08, 2021 at 08:22:31PM +0100, Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide wrote: > > - Anything outside of basic Org syntax, tables and source blocks I do > > directly in latex. Images are a good example. I will use latex code > > for the image, sizing, orientation, etc instead of relying on Org's > > extended syntax for image links, caption, and attributes. > > > As a result my publishing has been pretty consistent for customer > > documents. I also only update my Org between projects. ;] > > If I had needed a stronger argument for more backwards compatibility, > this list of habits is it. That should not be required to keep your > org-mode documents working.
I think this may be a problem regarding expectations. I expect Org to be great at handling it's own format, and to give me the editing experience within Emacs that I have come to expect. That Org can also be used to export to other formats is both a blessing and a curse. Org can only do high level constructs in the languages it exports to, and really should only be expected to do just that. It's a paper thin macro or template over a much more complicated document language. Org's lightweight markup has had things bolted onto it repeatedly for years. Typically issues have resulted in changes in the export engine defaults (ie: html moving to using css), and not Org itself changing the editing experience in Emacs. > Org-mode is not just a library, it keeps user-data. It should really not > be volatile¹. Org's format isn't volatile. You could view those anytime in Org and see what you expect to see. The issue you are having is that an old document may not export perfectly over time. What if Org didn't diverge, the underlying format did? > If I can’t trust org-mode to keep working but have to check the > documents every time I come back to them — and might have to spend hours > fixing them — then it not suitable for writing, as much as that would > pain me (because it would cast into doubt most of my decisions around > writing of the past decade). You can absolutely trust Org to open, view, and edit it's own files even decades old. It's plain text, so there's no risk in experiencing a permanent loss of data. The exporting is the difference in expectations. Org's lightweight markup is quite simple, and the documents it produces should be as well. This is much like the original HTML specification. Look how complicated it is to write HTML now with CSS and Javascript emulating mundane functions after decades of bolt on "standards". If I had a document which had a highly sensitive output format which had to remain perfect over decades, I would argue that perhaps Org wasn't the correct markup to write it in. Much like plain text vs original simple HTML, vs Latex. Text was plain and simple, with little formatting. Durable and ugly at times, but always legible. The original HTML had more markup required, but it was hyperlinks and some simple fonts and formats. Prettier, variable fonts, colors, pictures. Latex can make pixel perfect PDFs with multiple medias and professional results, however it has a very specific format and this may be poor for writing in dynamically. HTML required decades of tweaks to become "pixel perfect", and HTML a decade old rarely renders properly in a "modern" browser. At some point with each of these languages, the formatting became more important than the content. I write all my customer documentation in Org, with custom Latex templates. I've only had to make major changes once, I think between v8 and v9. Yes, my old documents won't export identically without the changes. The likelihood they still export is high, and 100% that I can view and edit them correctly in Org. It's only the polished result which could degrade. I may have to tweak them to make them export the same way again, but I expect they can without too much effort. I'm OK with that. > Please do not make org-mode volatile.¹ I think our maintainers have done an excellent job of minimizing the impact of any changes. However when changes are needed, I trust their judgement to have good reason to make a change and document it thoroughly. However I only export Org to be backwardly compatible with itself, not the languages it makes exports to. ------------------------------------------------------------------ Russell Adams rlad...@adamsinfoserv.com PGP Key ID: 0x1160DCB3 http://www.adamsinfoserv.com/ Fingerprint: 1723 D8CA 4280 1EC9 557F 66E8 1154 E018 1160 DCB3