Thanx for the warm responce Moritz. I appreciate your enthusiasm, and I think you've got alot of ideas that'll
work well with alittle time and planning. I think that with alittle planning we can get a forum system that
will be helpful. It may catch on, it may not, but it's a good resource to have. We all will acknolage freely
that the SF forums suck, but I think if they were getting hit harder we'd probly be forced to find a better
solution. 70% of all support and discussion happens in IRC, the other 30% happen in the mailing lists.
Generally posts made to the forums are because the individual simply doesn't know about the lists, or
prefers static forums over lists or IRC. I agree that if we are going to put a forum in place at some point
it needs to be done inline with the site, and not some offsite quasi-official forum like we have now.
And it doesn't matter what we use, phpBB doesn't make a board popular, the topic and location do, phpBB just
adds some nifty functionality.


As for the missing pages on E.org, that is being addressed now. This is part of what needs to be brought
up to snuff before LW. The pages don't exist because I have no content ready. There is, as I type, a list
under my keyboard outlining all the pages I need to re-hash, expand, and add. These would be done shortly.
But the most important thing about these pages is that they be technically correct and helpful. A classic
problem with site management is that the "web monkeys" (me atm i guess) don't know all the in's and out's
of the codebases they are writting about, and the developers who should be pimping their code are too busy
coding to care. Thus you have crappy web pages and confused users. Before we start re-hashing pages
we have to sit down and write some apps to get teh feel back before we start pimping code, so that the devs
are happy, the users are informed, and the web monkeys can feel confident in the content they deliver.
Currently, I'm pushing out 2 things together, the EFL CookBook and the website, because I can work on sample
code for the Cookbook, and then use that as a good refresher on how I want to accurately pimp the libs.
I'd rather have no page in the interum, than empty pages. It'll come soon.


If we are going to redesign the site at some point, put out a general call for ideas first to see what other
folks have thought of before solidifying any plans. Tokyo (our Sr Graphics and Theme Designer) has some
majorly kool ideas that would need to be looked at in that process.



benr.



Moritz Angermann wrote:

Hey Ben,
Thanks for the feedback.

I do see that LW is somewhat a deadline. I've to admit that my C skills have went far beyond quality. Since I did mostly
Web stuff. I think I could most of the site get reorganized, styled etc. up to
Aug 2nd. And as I got no idea on my previous proposal except a few comments
on IRC.. I started takeing the whole thing a little further.
The colors were taken from the Winter theme. And yes they might not be the best.
But they are not the worst in my eyes too.


The forum was there since some time but It's not present. Wich makes
it mere obsolet.
The SF forums are nothing to compair. They are not userfriendly in a
way the user
are used to. Even gentoo and other Sites footnotes have phpBB style forums. And
there are a lot more out there. Nearly every Webgameing clan has a
phpBB or Invasion
Board. They are just what people are used to.
The ML should stay at SF I never intended to actually use some other.



The planet sure. It might get slow as e does ( not yet) consist of a lot of people. But that might change.

I don't think I'm useful at doc`ing as I'm horribly Dyslexic and for
code, see first paragraph.
Nor am I a themer of quality. So I was thinking that maybe a more
friendly and mroe warm
e.org apperance might help user/developer and themer access info more easily.
As I, and this is my very personal opinion, find the current e.org
site cold and not
very wellcoming.

The Offsite notes on in the RFC were only to mark not to value.

Concerning Evoak. There is not even a link on e.org for evoak.
nor is there one for engage or emotion. I don't know if this has been
done on purpose.

The rollout app was actually an idea of raster's. Yesterday morning on irc.
Just my opinion and what I think I could be most useful at.

kindest regards,
Moritz "neofeed" Angermann

On Fri, 02 Jul 2004 13:23:07 -0700, Ben Rockwood <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


Here's my take, others comment as you see fit.

This is not a good time to re-invent the wheel.  LW is a month off,
we're getting bits slowly into place with hopes to have a good
showing... overhaul of the website doesn't make sense right now.
Granted, if your gonna overhaul the site, do it before the show, which
is why the layout was "upgraded" some time ago.  However with 30 days
and counting a mass overhaul is a bad idea.
Furthermore, the proposed colors are... imho, a poor choice, we'll say.
The ideas you have are good ones, I think you've got some promising
ideas, but why can't we apply some new ideas to what we have rather than
completely re-implementing offsite?
We have forums (SF), we have lists (SF), not to mention that e1x has
been there for ages, and cuddletech as an E forum as well (admitadly,
it's fairly Solaris/ports specific).  In our experience, I think it's
safe to say, forums haven't been a big win, and sure you can blame that
on them being offsite, but I don't see there being enough potential
there.  Further, the Blogs idea is yet another good one, however we have
a big problem... most of us maintain our own blogs/news offsite and
don't update it very often.  Okey, so planet is implemented and for
acouple weeks we're all into it and update more often, but that'll pass
in time.
The "News" page (and the whole site) are up for anyone with CVS access
to modify, folks can put anything at all that they want there, it's
always been that way.

Again, you've got some great ideas.  I'd like many of them to work, but
what we need now is docs and code.  The time that goes into implementing
blogs could be used creating new sample Edje's, or adding recipes to the
cookbook, or adding examples to pages already on the site, or improving
apps that are there.  Frankly, a new Entice theme to show just how much
flexablity that Edje/Embryo provides is a far better use of time than
anything mentioned here.  A rollout app (epackage) is a good idea, but
that involves a lot of code, and a whole lot more testing, which is
going to take at least 3months working at a fast clip, imho.  We need
deliverables by Aug 2nd.  Evoak, work with evoak, doc evoak, write
tutorials about evoak, write sample apps or port existing apps to evoak
via a "-client" arg.  Improve Erss and create new themes for it.  Kick
out some really great EWL apps. Etc, etc, etc.

Say what you will about the e.org's design... we would all probly like
something much much better, I'll be the first to say so...
but I don't think this is the time.

Please feel free to comment anyone who wants to.  This is a community
project, and obviously everyone can do anything they wish, this is just
my opinion.

benr.




Moritz Angermann wrote:



[Was: E-Org facelift - Now: eOrg RFC]

$ Moritz Angermann, v1, July 2nd 2004 $

what is this?
=============
This is about a possible Redising and reorganisation of
the eOrg Webrepresentation.
The idea is to generate a better publicity.
And more people to use e/eOrg/eApps. Yes this is about
PR. I'm not a PR expert but I'd like to try.

The Goal
========
The goal shall be to make e more friendly for user,
developer and themer. And give a better overview of the
whole e-project.

Let's go
========
As of now(irc of today) we would be having at least 3 modules.

o Some kind of server as integral part for datasupply.
o e.org website using the data supplied from the server.
o Some kind of Store/iTunes/RedCarpet like thingy.

e.org
=====
A general User, Developer, Themer seperation.
a scatched out layout idea can be found at http://neofeed.blogspot.com
The current e.org page has mixed all together.

e.org
Project
 Overview
 News
 FAQ
 Documentation
 Releases [offsite sf.DL]
 Source
 Community [ML, IRC, e1x, cuddletech]
 Join Us!
DR16
 Enlightenment
 Imlib
 Screenshots
 Get DR16
 Themes [fm]
EFL
 Overview
 Imlib2
 Edb
 EET
 Evas
 Ecore
 Etox
 Edje
 EWL
DR17
 Enlightenment
 Entice
 Evidence [Offsite]
 Entrance
 Euporia [Offsite - ome where have I landed? SUN?]
 eRSS
Development
 The Team
 CVS RSS
 CIA
 BugTrack [Offsite]
 Logos
 Links

Most of this is Developer Centric. Though a metalib covering
documentation is missing.
The fontsize is small and not too appealing/hard to read in my opinion.

We all know e17 won't build and as such is dead. Currenly when using
e everyone is using e16
with the tools based on EFL.

Thus a quick way how a layout could look:

e.org
Users
 enlightenment (e16)
  download
  themes
  screenshots \w comments
 enlightenment apps
  {a generic e app
   Download
   Applicaion Screenshots
   Themes (Edje)
   Comments
   Bug Report
  }
  Entice
  Evidence
  Entrance
  Euphora
  (Emotion)
  (Engage)
  (Examine)
  (ETerm)
  [...]
 User Forum/ML/IRC
Developer
 Overview of all the libs
  Imlib2 ( do we still want Imlib? )
  Edb
  EET
  Evas
  Ecore
  Etox
  Edje
  EWL
  (where is the E-OSD)
 Documentation
  Something like http://go-mono:8080 and http://www.php.net/printf
could be nice. \w comments
 Developer Forum/ML/IRC
 (Public e-applicaion)
 Team(?)
Themer
 Introduction to Edje
 Documentation Edje
  I don't think that http://go-mono:8080 or http://www.php.net/printf
 Tutorials Edje
 Themer Forum/ML/IRC
 (Publish Themes)
Planet.e.org
Links

o.org would have to be easily extenable and maintainable while being
at the same time simple to query via a generic extenable interface
(RPC anyone?).

eFrontEnd
==========
Raster had the idea of having something RedCarpet alike or iTunes.
Where one would simply click the App one wants and it would get installed.
Possibly popping up with a Dialog to select the wished themes.
And something like this in the background:
`epackage -repo http://repository.enlightenment.org/repo -install examine`

eBackEnd a.k.a. Server
=======================
Would have to supply the requested data without too much hazzle.
I have no Idea how the phpBB would be weeded in this... Rewrite?
Neighter do I have an idea what to do with the Planet software.
This could probably be Engeneered in PHP.

The missing parts
=================
We do not yet have a way to do the server/client communication.
XML would come to ones mind though raster has no clear view on
why to use xml for this instead of some binary/text format.

Suggestions, Ideas, Comments are wellcome!


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