EV Digest 3576
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) EVLN(Time to Re-TH!NK electric car option)
by Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) EVLN(Carnegie Mellon likes EVs when it paid to: Dragon Runner)
by Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) EVLN(EaglePicher Horizon Batts in Methacton club's TDS EV)
by Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) EVLN(WaveCrest wheel hub motors)
by Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) EVLN(Kool Bikz next-gen nEV)
by Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: EVLN(Carnegie Mellon likes EVs when it paid to: Dragon Runner)
by Derrick J Brashear <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) NEVCO Gizmo (was EVLN(GEM promised but no delivery)
by "Tom Shay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: EVLN(GEM promised but no delivery)
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Max power transfer, Racing on a budget
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Max power transfer, Racing on a budget
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) TdS Report #17: Team Profile: #32, Viking 32
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
12) battery charging time, help!
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Dead tractor avail for electric conversion
by Chris Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) TdS Report #18: Photos - Pictures of #17, Proxima
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
15) Re: Max power transfer, Racing on a budget
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- Begin Message ---
EVLN(Time to Re-TH!NK electric car option)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://www.newsday.com/news/columnists/ny-liroad203810094may20,0,2684739.column?coll=ny-news-columnists
Friday, May 21, 2004 ON THE ROADS John Valenti On The Roads
Time to Re-TH!NK electric car option May 20, 2004
The signboard at the local Exxon station a few blocks from the
Hicksville train station said it all: Regular $2.19.9, Plus $2.23.9,
Supreme $2.33.9.
These are the newest signs of the times in America - gas station
signboards that seem more hazard warning than advertisement. You
know: Outrageous gas prices ahead, rising daily, no end in sight.
For more than two years now, Martin Marcus has given little thought
to those signboards. Not even when prices soared through $2 a
gallon.
"Gas prices are absolutely crazy," Marcus said. "I'd just pass a gas
station and wave."
He'd wave - or thumb his nose - because his wife works three blocks
from home. And because for the last two years Marcus has used an
electric car as his so-called "station car" - the car he drove
between his home on Rim Lane and the Long Island Rail Road station
on Route 106 in Hicksville.
The 60-year-old promotion company executive from Hicksville was one
of about 100 metropolitan-area commuters who, back in 2002, signed
on for the "Clean Commuter Campaign" sponsored by the New York Power
Authority.
But now the first phase of the program is nearing an end. Come
October, the Power Authority will literally pull the plug on 40 Long
Island drivers - Martin Marcus, among them - who, due to federal
regulations, will be forced to return their leased TH!NK city
electric cars built in Norway under contract to Ford Motor Co.
The second phase of the campaign was short-circuited when plans for
an American-built version of the electric car fell through. The
original version, which received a 30-month test exemption from U.S.
safety standards, is no longer made.
"The Clean Commute program was extremely successful," Power
Authority spokesman Brian Warner said. But, as Power Authority
electric transportation supervisor Kerry- Jane King said: "It has
been really hard for us to find a substitute. That is a letdown for
us. But, it's out of our control."
Soon, electric car drivers like Marcus will have to find a
gasoline-powered alternative at a time when gas prices - and,
gasoline-based pollutants - are streaking into the stratosphere. "Of
course," he said, "I'm upset about this."
Every day we see more hybrid cars - cars that run on gasoline and
electricity - on the roads. But electric cars, powered by
nickel-cadmium batteries, are few and far between.
Their range is limited. Their power often is, too. Most American
manufacturers fear Americans don't want them. Right now, they just
don't offer enough bang for the buck.
But, Power Authority officials argue, their test proves there is a
viable market. The test participants leased the $30,000 cars for
$199 a month, though they received rebates on railroad tickets and
auto insurance costs for the cars.
Often the butt of jokes, Marcus said: "We loved it as much as we
laughed about it." Even if he wore a clown nose the night he first
drove it home.
Bodied in rough plastic reminiscent of a garbage can, the TH!NK is
117.8 inches long, 63.1 inches wide, 61.5 inches high, runs on
13-inch tires and weighs in at 2,112 pounds - smaller than a Mini
Cooper, the smallest current production car in the U.S. It has a
maximum speed of 56 mph, takes seven seconds to go from 0-31 mph and
has a range of about 50 miles. Which also means it's slow - and it's
limited.
But, honestly, the two-seater feels much bigger. And faster. And
driving 40 mph feels like 80 mph in a motorized go-cart - something
I thought I'd only say about my Mini Cooper.
Besides, Marcus said, it is perfect for morning commutes to the
train station. Or for running errands around town on the weekends.
Especially, since the Power Authority installed a series of 220 volt
plug-in stations at both the Hicksville and Huntington rail road
stations - the ones in Hicksville are located in the Town of Oyster
Bay Parking Garage - and also installed them in the homes of
commuters who tested the TH!NK.
A full charge takes about six hours, Marcus said.
None of this matters much now, though, of course.
It will soon be lights out on the "Clean Commuter Campaign." Despite
it's success.
"I've been thrilled with it," said Marcus, whose other car is a
Volvo C70 convertible. "For two years, with only one car using gas,
I've saved all that money. Now, if they discontinue the program, I
go back to gas consumption ... I'm not looking forward to that."
Considering the signs of the times, who can blame him?
Copyright © Newsday, Inc. Produced by Newsday Electronic
Publishing.
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EVLN(Carnegie Mellon likes EVs when it is their own: Dragon Runner)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
[For those not Ol' timers, Carnegie Mellon had published an article
that was negative toward EVs. Later it was found Oil Companies had
paid Carnegie Mellon to write it.]
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/04142/319740.stm CMU's snooping robot
going to Iraq Friday, May 21, 2004 By Byron Spice, Pittsburgh
Post-Gazette
A robot designed for urban warfare will soon be on its way to assist
U.S. Marines in Iraq, where the scrappy machine can peer around
corners and snoop in areas too dangerous or inaccessible for human
soldiers.
Marine Corps Warfighting Laboratory
A researcher throws a Dragon Runner prototype over a wall during
testing at the Southwest Research Institute in San Antonio, Texas.
The device was designed to reach its destination either under its
own power or by being thrown or dropped.
Click photo for larger image.
[ http://www.post-gazette.com/images2/20040521ho-dragon_230.jpg ]
Called Dragon Runner, the four-wheeled device is small and light
enough to be carried in a soldier's backpack and rugged enough to be
tossed over fences and up or down stairwells.
"We've thrown it out of second- and third-story windows," said Capt.
Dave Moreau, project officer for Dragon Runner at the Marine Corps
Warfighting Laboratory in Quantico, Va. "We've thrown it off the
back of a moving vehicle at 45 miles an hour."
The flat, squarish robot can operate whichever way it lands.
"There's no right side up," Moreau said. The robot is steered by a
soldier, who can see where it is going via its onboard video camera.
It has infrared capabilities for operating at night.
Dragon Runner was developed by Carnegie Mellon University's Robotics
Institute and the National Robotics Engineering Consortium under
contract to the Marines. Twelve prototypes have been built by the
CMU spinoff Automatika Inc. and are being delivered to the Marines.
The Corps isn't talking much about its deployment plans, other than
to say some will be sent overseas in the near term to deployed
Marine units. But Iraq, where Marines only last month defused a
standoff at the insurgent stronghold of Fallujah, is the only area
where Marines face the prospect of urban warfare.
If Dragon Runner performs well, the Pentagon conceivably would be
interested in buying hundreds of the robots. Hagen Schempf, a senior
systems scientist at the Robotics Institute who was principal
investigator for Dragon Runner, said he thinks applications in
civilian law enforcement and firefighting might eventually outnumber
those in the military.
"We might soon face a different problem here ---- how fast can we
make how many?" said Schempf, who is co-founder and chairman of
Automatika, which has licensed the Dragon Runner technology from
CMU.
Moreau, a Pittsburgh-area native and graduate of Central Catholic
High School, said Dragon Runner's origins go back three years, after
the Marines re-examined their urban warfare tactics and identified a
need for a small robotic scout and listening post.
A big problem in urban environments, he explained, is "situational
awareness." Enemy and civilians are intermixed and fighting must
occur in and around a wide variety of structures. A machine that
could carry cameras, microphones and other sensors inside and around
buildings could reduce the danger to Marine units that must enter
those environments.
Some military units already use small robots like the Packbot robots
that explored caves during the search for al-Qaida members in
Afghanistan. But those robots were designed primarily for explosive
ordnance disposal.Even before the Marines started looking for the
technology to build their robotic scout, Schempf was pushing the
idea of small, mobile robots and in search of a customer. During a
tour of CMU by Brig. Gen. William Catto, then commander of the
Warfighting Lab, Schempf got his ear and found him receptive to the
idea.
That was three years ago. Dragon Runner today is a 9-pound electric
vehicle about 15 inches long, a little less than a foot wide and
just five inches in height. Moreau said Dragon Runner can operate in
three modes:
Drive mode. The machine has a top speed of 20 mph and also can be
operated slowly and deliberately. The video camera transmits color
imagery to the operator, who controls it using a hand-held
controller/view screen.
Sentry mode. It can operate as a stationary listening post, with a
directional microphone and sensors that can detect motion up to 30
feet away. If it detects something, it can alert the operator by
vibrating the hand control or sending a verbal "motion left" or
"motion right" alert through an earphone.
Watch mode. Again, the vehicle would remain motionless, but would
use its cameras to relay information.
Stairs are a given in most urban environments, but Dragon Runner was
not designed to climb stairs. To do so would have added to its cost,
weight, size and complexity, Moreau explained. Also, countermeasures
to block a stair-climbing robot would have been easy.
Instead, the robot was designed so it could be heaved over stairs
and other obstacles.
Several payloads are being developed and tested, Moreau said. Most
of these are non-lethal sensor packages, he noted, though he
acknowledged it would be possible to strap on an explosive device to
turn it into a weapon.
For now, at $46,000 a copy for the prototypes, no one is eager to
blow any Dragon Runners apart. But if and when the device goes into
volume production, the price is likely to drop 40 to 50 percent,
Moreau said.
The robot is nearing the end of its research and development stage
this year. Depending on its performance overseas, changes could be
made or it could be transferred to Marine Corps Systems Command,
which could begin an acquisition program.
Copyright ©1997-2004 PG Publishing Co., Inc. All Rights Reserved.
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--- Begin Message ---
EVLN(EaglePicher Horizon Batts in Methacton club's TDS EV)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/040521/laf014_1.html
Press Release Source: EaglePicher Horizon Batteries, LLC EaglePicher
Horizon Batteries Power Students' Electric Vehicle in Tour de Sol
Green Transportation Competition Friday May 21, 8:01 am ET
CITY OF BURLINGTON, N.J., May 21 /PRNewswire/ -- EaglePicher Horizon
Batteries, LLC has supplied its high-performance EaglePicher
Horizon(TM) lead acid batteries to the Methacton High School
Electric Car Club in Norristown, Penn. to power the club's entry in
the Tour de Sol green transportation competition. The club will
participate in the Tour de Sol event, which begins in the City of
Burlington, New Jersey on May 21, 2004, moves to Trenton, New
Jersey, and ends in New York City on May 25.
The Methacton club's prototype battery electric vehicle will compete
for prizes for "green" capability, consumer satisfaction and best
performing vehicle using lead-acid batteries. The vehicle will be
judged on handling, acceleration, reliability and range as well as
its contribution to reduced greenhouse gas emissions and higher fuel
efficiency.
EaglePicher Horizon's breakthrough batteries use a patented,
woven-grid process technology that reduces internal impedance for
greater efficiency, faster recharge and higher cold cranking power.
The EaglePicher Horizon battery has the highest specific energy of
any lead acid battery on the market today, delivering more power per
pound than conventional lead acid batteries.
The batteries feature a rugged, maintenance-free design. Battery
terminals never need cleaning, and the battery is fully sealed,
which eliminates corrosion due to leakage.
To learn more about the Tour de Sol, access www.TourdeSol.org. For
more information about EaglePicher Horizon batteries, access
www.ephorizon.com or contact us at 1-800-928-9256.
EaglePicher Horizon Batteries, LLC is a joint venture of EaglePicher
Incorporated and Horizon Batteries, Inc. The joint venture develops,
manufactures, markets and distributes breakthrough, high-performance
sealed lead acid battery solutions to industries in which superior
power and reduced weight create customer value. Additional
information is available on the Internet at www.ephorizon.com.
EaglePicher Incorporated, founded in 1843 and headquartered in
Phoenix, Arizona, is a diversified manufacturer and marketer of
innovative, advanced technology and industrial products and services
for space, defense, automotive, medical, filtration, pharmaceutical,
nuclear power, semiconductor and commercial applications worldwide.
The company has 3,900 employees and operates more than 30 plants in
the United States, Canada, Mexico and Germany. Additional
information on the company is available on the Internet at
www.eaglepicher.com.
This release contains [...] "forward-looking statements"
EaglePicher Horizon(TM) is a trademark of EaglePicher Horizon
Batteries, LLC. Source: EaglePicher Horizon Batteries, LLC
Copyright © 2004 Yahoo! Inc. All rights reserved.
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EVLN(WaveCrest wheel hub motors)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://www.just-auto.com/news_detail.asp?art=44488 UK: Wheel hub
motors lure new players to the automotive industry 21 May 2004
Source: SupplierBusiness.com Putting electric motors in automobile
wheels is not a new idea. Ferdinand Porsche achieved his first fame
at age 25 with wheel hub motors in the Lohner-Porsche Electric car
exhibited at the Paris Exposition in 1900, reports
SupplierBusiness.com. However, as with many good ideas, theory
lagged reality, and only with modern electronic control has the idea
regained plausibility.
"Electric wheel motors offer many advantages: Eliminating drivetrain
losses, harmonics and gear backlash," said Jon Bereisa, director of
GM's global alternative propulsion centre, in Los Angeles last
summer when he demonstrated an S10 pickup using hub motors.
"With no gears, they're extremely quiet. They can compensate for
gearshift torque disturbances from (the internal combustion engine)
to enhance driver comfort. They are a natural tie-in to AWD and
stability control, and enable a higher level of vehicle control
flexibility. They allow for more even mass distribution for better
handling and driver comfort."
The promise is great, considering that in a hydrogen future all cars
might use such motors, and the potential of manufacturing 2-4 wheel
hub motors per car has already enticed several companies with
electric motor expertise to try to become automobile suppliers.
With a drivetrain controller adjusting torque precisely at each
wheel, brake-oriented systems like ABS and ESP are eliminated.
Differentials are eliminated, because the outside wheels on a curve
would be driven a little faster than the inside wheels, according to
the commands of the driver transmitted by the steering wheel angle.
Even brakes may be eliminated, suggest developers. Prodrive, a
British engineering company with particular expertise in driving
dynamics, has used mechanical differentials to develop software that
could be used with wheel hub motors. Controlling the torque at each
wheel, said chief dynamics engineer Damian Harty, will be helpful
"to maintain balance when cars run out of grip in a corner. We can
make the car play nicely as it does it, and not do anything nasty to
the driver."
Two leading competitors However, he said traditional brakes are more
efficient and provide a safer way of stopping than wheel hub motors.
Two leading candidates to bring the technology to cars are WaveCrest
Laboratories, a U.S. company founded in February 2000 by two Russian
scientists, and Technologies M4, a subsidiary of the Canadian power
company Hydro Quebec.
WaveCrest showed wheel hub motors in a modified Smart roadster at
the SAE convention in Detroit in March 2004, and Technologies M4 has
been developing the technology since 1998, after scientists at the
mother company had developed the idea. WaveCrest is trying to blast
its way into the automotive industry with a lot of up-front
investment in experienced people, while Technologies M4 is trying to
wriggle its way in.
Richard Shaum rose to chief engineer during a 37-year career at
DaimlerChrysler and abandoned a retirement consulting career to lead
WaveCrest's entry into the auto industry.
"We have hired people from Visteon, DaimlerChrysler, Ford and TRW
who have deep experience in control and brake systems and
drive-by-wire," said Shaum. "We want to really grow. We think high
tech."
His strategy for entry is to find a supplier partner. "I need an
alliance with a Dana or BorgWarner or Delphi," he said. "We are also
marketing directly toward OEMs, but they will want us to have a
respected tier 1 partner to go forward."
He hopes to win a development contract of the sort he used to award
new suppliers, "to see how good they were."
To push the idea forward, WaveCrest installed its wheel hub motors
in a Smart Roadster that it has demonstrated to customers and
displayed at SAE. Hydro Quebec, a power generating company, had
scientists and engineers working on rotating machines, motors, power
electronics and controls, and in 1998 decided to incorporate
Technologies M4 to complete development and commercialize some of
their technology.
A Dodge Intrepid converted to use wheel motors in 1995 is still
running, said Michel Lemaire, vice-president for business
development at Technologies M4.
"The wheel motor itself works," he said. "The work left is basically
around matching it to a specific car." Evidently Technologies M4
already has some business, as Lemaire said he was not allowed to
discuss certain things.
"There is interest from various OEMs, but there are still very few
concrete projects," he said. "There are companies looking at hybrid
cars with an internal combustion engine powering the front wheels,
and using wheel motors on the rear wheels, but there is still
nothing really where we will be producing tens of thousands of wheel
motors in coming years. We have discussions with companies that are
looking for hundreds of wheel motors. It's hard for them to give a
firm number. They don't know how many vehicles they will sell."
Technologies M4 is involved in a project in France with SVE (Société
Véhicules Électriques), a joint venture between the body maker Henri
Heuliez and the industrial group Marcel Dassault. Technologies M4
and a sister subsidiary, Avestor, are providing power controls, a
lithium polymer battery and central electric motor, not wheel hub
motors.
Developers didn't want to take on too much new technology at once,
said Lemaire. "They will start with the central motor and work on
other technical aspects. The next generation could be with a wheel
motor."
Others have also demonstrated the idea in cars. General Motors
presented an S10 pickup last summer with wheel motors developed by
GM's Advanced Technology Center and made by Lucchi R.
Elettromeccanica Srl of Rimini, Italy.
Wheel hub motors already used in hybrid buses The eight-wheel KAZ
electric car developed by Japan's Keio University achieved speeds of
311 kph on an Italian test track using wheel-hub motors, and this
year students hope to break the speed record with the eight-wheel
Eliica. The weight of the hub motors will be a critical issue,
because ride comfort of cars is very sensitive to the weight in the
wheel. Wheel hub motors are already at work in several series hybrid
buses, where the weight of the wheels against the overall vehicle
weight is insignificant.
Diesel engines running as generators provide the power, and a buffer
battery allows for recovery of braking energy. Both Irisbus and
Scania have models on the road, and other projects are brewing.
Arjan Heinan, founder of e-Traction in the Netherlands, has his
company's wheel motors in a converted VDL Berkhof bus for a project
with the city of Apeldoorn. Heinan suggests another proportional
question that favours development in buses. "Because the initial
cost of development is high," he said, "I look for a vehicle where
the price is also high."
The selling point for wheel hub motors, he said, is that the
converted bus used 58% less fuel than a standard bus running on the
same route. The first passenger vehicle use of wheel hub motors is
likely to be in a parallel hybrid vehicle, where the front wheels
are driven by an internal combustion engine, and the rear wheels by
electric motors.
The combination would offer all-wheel drive as well as electric-only
drive possibilities. However, the technology's future is anything
but clear, given the slow arrival of hybrid vehicles using more
tested technology. "I think this solution will be used eventually,"
said Lemaire. "It's like fuel cells in a way. People think they are
coming, but nobody can say when fuel cells will be implemented in a
large way."
- SupplierBusiness.com
© 2004 All content copyright just-auto.com. Published by Aroq Ltd.
Seneca House, Buntsford Park Road, Bromsgrove, Worcs, B60 3DX, UK.
VAT No: GB785642391. Registered in England No: 4307068. Tel:
Intl +44 (0)1527 573600. Toll Free from US: 1-866-545-5878. Fax:
+44 (0)1527 577423. Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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EVLN(Kool Bikz next-gen nEV)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://ardmoreite.com/stories/052104/loc_inntrans.shtml
Story last updated at 11:07 a.m. Friday, May 21, 2004
New company builds innovative transportation
By Sheila J. Robinson Staff Writer
Michael Blacker sits in the "Next Generation," vehicle which will be
made in Davis at Kool Bikz. The vehicles are used for transportation
by tourists at beach resorts.
DAVIS -- Kool Bikz has just completed a new manufacturing facility
in Davis' Industrial Park. Kool Bikz LLC is a manufacturer of unique
and innovative transportation products including bicycles, motorized
bicycles, multi-passenger family bicycles, chopper bicycles,
aluminum frame assemblies for electric low speed vehicles and other
products.
Michael Blackmore, president, said the company has been in business
for nine years and the Next Generation electric vehicle will be
revealed in 60 days.
"I grew up in Yukon, Oklahoma and lived in South Padre Island,
Texas," Blackmore said. "We have corporate headquarters for our
rental operations there. We have rental operations across the
country in resort areas."
The uniqueness, durability and commercial design of products allow
Kool Bikz to establish regional distribution that currently supply
these rental companies with other, more generic products.
"We chose Davis partly because of the work ethic of the people up
here and partly because I said growing up in Yukon that I would have
businesses where I would have vacation," Blackmore said. "I figured
that should include my manufacturing plant."
Products are designed specifically for the needs of commercial
applications and therefore Kool Bikz becomes the sole supplier to an
international commercial customer base.
"This plant is the new operation," Blackmore said. "We've done
prototypes and pre-production units and put them out in our rental
operations for testing. We design some very specific and unique
bicycles for the rental industry."
Plans are to begin manufacturing Tuesday at the new plant which
currently employs eight people from the state of Oklahoma
"That's just to start with," Blackmore said. "Our objectives are to
be at 64 people within two years." 2003, 2001 and 2000 AP/ONE Best
Newspaper Web Site
©
The Daily Ardmoreite | Ardmoreite.com of Ardmore, Oklahoma - A
service of The Daily Ardmoreite 580-223-2200 | 1-800-873-0211 |
FAX 580-226-0050 | 117 West Broadway, Ardmore, OK 73401
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--- Begin Message ---
> [For those not Ol' timers, Carnegie Mellon had published an article
> that was negative toward EVs. Later it was found Oil Companies had
> paid Carnegie Mellon to write it.]
The lead-acid battery article?
CMU likes anything it's paid to like; that's why for instance we're
opening a campus in Qatar. They were already liking electric cars at least
somewhat; A recent dorm and another new building that's not done yet have
electric car charging available: because they want green building
certification.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce EVangel Parmenter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2004 9:38 PM
Subject: EVLN(GEM promised but no delivery)
> EVLN(GEM promised but no delivery)
> [The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
> informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
> --- {EVangel}
> Posted on Tue, May. 18, 2004
> Customer pays for car, gets runaround
This is a sad story. Sad because a potential EV buyer has been treated
badly
and may never get her money back. Sad because NEVCO appears to be on the
ropes and I would presume near bankruptcy.
This reminds me of Corbin Motors which bilked potential buyers, dealers,
suppliers,
investors, etc. out of millions. I hope NEVCO hasn't done that.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Why does the title say a GEM (Global Electric Motors) was involved when
NEVCO (Neighborhood Electric Vehicle COmpany) was actually involved in the
story?
It sounds like someone is confusing the two different companies.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce EVangel Parmenter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2004 9:38 PM
Subject: EVLN(GEM promised but no delivery)
> EVLN(GEM promised but no delivery)
> [The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
> informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
> --- {EVangel}
> Posted on Tue, May. 18, 2004
> Customer pays for car, gets runaround
> ANGELA CURRY
>
> At Your Service: On Nov. 2, 2002, I ordered an electric vehicle from
> Neighborhood Electric Vehicle Co. of Eugene, Ore., for $10,847.50.
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At 10:13 PM 5/22/2004, you wrote:
<<While it is possible to learn all these important subjects
on your own, only the rarest individual would have the discipline and the
capacity to do so.>>
In fact, I did just that. My engineering instructors in college were
horrible. Not only did they not care about you or anyone else, I think
they actually
hated you, and tried like hell to flunk out everyone they possibly could.
This meant never caring to explain anything to us whatsoever - only
stating that
something was so, and dropping a 100 page test of problems on us to do in one
hour (which was, of course, impossible).
It was up to me to take whatever subjects the instructor was supposedly
"teaching," and go home and learn it on my own. In fact, I finally quit
attending
all classes at all, except to go get the syllabus and test schedule on the
first day of class, and show up for tests.
I got my engineering degree, no thanks to the instructors. In fact, in spite
of them.
As I said, it is worth the price of tuition to select the texts
and to grade homework. Could you have selected the texts, not having any
knowledge of the subject?
Could you have learned what you needed to without the structure of
the program? Would you have?
_ /| Bill "Wisenheimer" Dube'
\'o.O' <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
=(___)=
U
Check out the bike -> http://www.KillaCycle.com
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If the motors are at 800 amps and the controller is 100% duty
cycle, then the motors will go to something like 1600 amps after the switch.
Bill, I don't understand how you are getting 1600 Amps after the switch to
parallel. The simplest calculation would be 4X.
Motors are not resistive at a given speed, but are close to that or higher
current than resistive would show. Since it's easier to call them
resistive, that's what I'll do for now. I come up with 2300 amps in
parallel after a switch at 800 amps in series. This does take into account
the internal resistance of the batteries, but does not truly model the
motor so real life is probably a bit higher than that.
Yes, you are correct, but only in the simplest case, as you say.
Later, you go on to say that the traction limits the current in
the motors to something like 1400 amps each. That is probably true at the
beginning of the track, but unlikely after 60 feet or so. The track is much
less sticky after the starting line. Also, John's car has no wing or
spoiler, so it is probably generating some lift once it gets moving. This
also reduces traction.
From what I am hearing about Orbitals, it appears that they will
put out a bit more amps than a single Zilla 2K can suck in. Might be smart
to make a single string at higher voltage in the Postal Van and dump off
some of the battery weight. Perhaps a single 348 volt string instead of two
240 volt strings. Set a battery current limit on one controller and a
battery voltage limit on the other.
Aye, there's the rub. To do the math one needs to have some data to start
with, and then one needs to avoid mistakes in the math!
Cheaper to make a few mistakes in the math than to take a shot in
the dark and just build with no calculations at all.
You don't have to make too many guesses. Most of the data is
available. Just takes a little research. You can calculate the weight of
the machine by keeping track of how much the selected components weigh. You
can calculate the CG by keeping track of where each component is installed.
The motor curves are available and you can project them with some degree of
certainty. You know what the coefficient of friction of the track will be
within certain bounds. It is easy to calculate (or at least estimate) the
rotational inertia of the components. You know the specs on the controller.
You can test a few batteries and get the specs on them. You know how much
each of the components will cost and/or how much time it will take to build
it.
The key is to use the information you have to calculate what you
don't have.
You can take all this information and put it in a computer model.
A spreadsheet will do. You then twiddle with the number of batteries,
gearing, CG, motors, etc until you get something that will go as fast as
possible within the limits of your budget.
The model may not be 100% accurate, but it will tell you whether a
specific modification is going to make the vehicle "better" or "worse."
_ /| Bill "Wisenheimer" Dube'
\'o.O' <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
=(___)=
U
Check out the bike -> http://www.KillaCycle.com
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TdS Report #17: Team Profile: #32, Viking 32
Western Washington University
Viking 32, #32
Western Washington University, Bellingham, WA
Viking 32 is a biomethane/electric hybrid, funded by the Federal Highway
Administration, with a strong emphasis on safety. It was designed and built
by faculty and students at Western Washington University's Vehicle Research
Institute. It is a mid-sized sports sedan with AWD and a hydraulic lift
system.
Where do the ideas and motivations for the Viking vehicles come from? I spoke
with Paul Wyndham, Timothy Jackson, Jeff Sluys and James Diedesch.
This is not the latest, right? There are more beyond 32?
"This is the most recent we have finished that is a full vehicle. We have a
couple of go-karts and miniature-formula cars after this one.
"This is a natural gas/electric hybrid, built from the ground up. It is all
carbon fiber. The front and rear are steel space frames, but the center
chassis is a carbon fiber system. The honeycomb structure in the front is a
crush structure. We got a grant from the Federal Highway Commission to build a
50 mile per hour crash safety vehicle. It can crash into a wall at 50 and
survive."
So this car is destined to be crashed?
"No. They didn't pay us enough to do that. We have done stress models and
crushed the carbon fiber honeycomb tubes to get the rate of crush." The grant
was originally for developing crush barriers around bridge abutments. "But at
VRI we know how to do cars."
The crush structure is visible under the hood. It is composed of sheets of
carbon fiber shaped so that the stack of sheets form hexagonal tubes, with the
tubes about an inch in "diameter". "In the first generation we used 1/4 inch
cell size, and found it was way too stiff. This larger cell size slowly
crumples. It just becomes powder as it disintegrates."
The car is a hybrid. "It has a 100 horse power 3-phase AC permanent magnet
liquid-cooled motor. It is controlled through a Controller Area Network (aka
CAN-bus) using SAE 1939 standards." They took a 5-speed Volkswagen
transmission and removed 3rd, 4th, 5th, and reverse gears. The result is a
two-speed manual transmission, with no clutch, where the speed-shifting is
driven by a computer. "To the driver, this is an automatic system." The
batteries came from disassembled Prius battery packs, repackaged to fit in the
car. They are in the center tunnel and under the rear seats. "The pure-
electric range is about 25 miles on about 250 pounds of battery."
They didn't bring their charger. They plan to recharge using the regenerative
braking.
The engine for the rear wheels runs on natural gas, through a Continuously
Variable Transmission (CVT). The car is a fuel-dominant hybrid; you are
basically driving a fuel-engine car with electric assistance. When the natural
gas engine goes into reverse, the electric motor goes into neutral.
Originally, they were trying to get biomethane to run the car. "We could not
arrange it in time. Natural gas and biomethane are the same. We would have to
clean the biomethane to get it to the percentage of methane we need."
Mike Seal said that two cows could support this car with fuel for 12,000 miles
a year.
The car has just been finished, but they have driven it over 200 miles, which
is a Tour de Sol requirement.
There are a couple of "interesting" things about the car design. Most
noticeable is a semi-circle window-within-a-window on the 2-doors. "It was to
be different. And, boy, is it different. It rotates around, but the door
panels aren't finished so it doesn't yet."
They designed the suspension for this car. The ride height can be changed by 3
inches. In the raised position it will clear speed bumps and the like. In the
lower position, it gives better mileage on the highway. The power steering
pump on the engine can be feed to hydraulic lifts at each wheel.
"This is the first VRI car with air-conditioning."
The doors are hinged at the back. "It looks good." An it appears easier to
get out of the car.
Team Name Western Washington University
Vehicle Name Viking 32
Vehicle Number 32
Registered as Car/Truck
In State Washington
Empty weight 2200 pounds
Length 14 feet 5 inches
Width 5 feet 6 inches
Height 5 feet
Frame material steel, carbon fiber
Body material carbon fiber
No. of people 4
Energy Storage System
Manufacturer Toyota
Chemistry NiMH
No. of cells 88
Connection series/parallel
Cost $12,000
Capacity 4118 Watt-hours
System Voltage 316.8 Volts
Weight 202.4 pounds
Charger
Off-board
Manufacturer Xantrax
Capacity 20 kiloWatts
Input Voltage 400 Volts
Input Current 50 Amperes
Type Transformer/rectifier
Electric Drive System
Manufacturer UQM
Motor type brushless DC
Motor rating 50 kWatt continuous, 75 kWatt peak
Electric Control System
Manufacturer UQM
Type PWM 3-phase
Fueled Drive System
Manufacturer Honda
Displacement 1.7 liter
Hybrid Geometry parallel
Fuel biomethane
Tank Material carbon fiber
Tank Capacity 26.4 gallons
Fuel Efficiency 50 miles per gallon gasoline equivalent
Emissions test? yes
Tires
Number 4
Manufacturer Michelin
Model P 205/60 R 16
Type Radial
Brakes
Front disc
Rear disc
Regenerative yes
- - - -
The complete set of Tour de Sol Reports for 2004 can be found at:
http://www.AutoAuditorium.com/TdS_Reports_2004
The complete set of past Tour de Sol Reports can be found at:
http://www.FovealSystems.com/Tour_de_Sol_Reports.html
- - - -
The above is Copyright 2004 by Michael H. Bianchi.
Permission to copy is granted provided the entire article is presented
without modification and this notice remains attached.
For other arrangements, contact me at +1-973-822-2085 .
- - - -
For more on the NESEA Tour de Sol, see the web page at
http://www.TourdeSol.org
- - - -
Official NESEA Tour de Sol information is available from the sponsor,
the Northeast Sustainable Energy Association (NESEA) at
413 774-6051 , and 50 Miles Street, Greenfield, MA 01301 , and
[EMAIL PROTECTED] . All media enquiries should be addressed to ...
Jack Groh
Tour de Sol Communications Director
P.O. Box 6044
Warwick, RI 02887-6044
401 732-1551
401 732-0547 fax
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Hello,
I'm looking for a graph or table of charge *voltage* against time to 100% SOC
for a flooded lead acid battery (let's say current is unlimited) Preferably in
the sub-100AH size, to use as an example. I've found these for VRLA and gell
cells, but I'd really I'd like one for starter or RV type batteries. The
application is a vehicle alternator. I'm just trying to find whether a battery
of a given size is ever likely to reach 100% SOC at 14.4V maximum, but data
seems to be scarce.
I'd be grateful for any help.
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It's a 15.5 hp Sears garden tractor. No attachments other than the belly
motor.
I'd say this is drifting a bit from the topic. If anyone is interested,
drop me a line at my private email address.
Chris
Peter Eckhoff wrote:
What sort of tractor is it? Plow? lawn mower? etc.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Zach" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 12:08 PM
Subject: Re: Dead tractor avail for electric conversion
Oh, Baltimore MD.
Chris
keith vansickle wrote:
where is it located?
kEVs
--- Chris Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Well, I lent my ICE tractor out and the engine blew
up. Craftsman
15.5hp, 42 inch deck, 6 speed transmission, etc.
Anyone interested in the thing as a conversion to an
electric tractor?
Chris
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Domains – Claim yours for only $14.70/year
http://smallbusiness.promotions.yahoo.com/offer
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TdS Report #18: Photos - Pictures of #17, Proxima
Photographs from the Tour de Sol:
http://www.AutoAuditorium.com/TdS_Reports_2004/photos_001.html
Pictures of #17, Proxima
Lining up for technical testing.
Rear view.
Under the hood.
The engine is on the left, electric motor on the right.
The case between them is the custom transmission that mixes the power from
both.
- - - -
The complete set of Tour de Sol Reports for 2004 can be found at:
http://www.AutoAuditorium.com/TdS_Reports_2004
The complete set of past Tour de Sol Reports can be found at:
http://www.FovealSystems.com/Tour_de_Sol_Reports.html
- - - -
The above is Copyright 2004 by Michael H. Bianchi.
Permission to copy is granted provided the entire article is presented
without modification and this notice remains attached.
For other arrangements, contact me at +1-973-822-2085 .
- - - -
For more on the NESEA Tour de Sol, see the web page at
http://www.TourdeSol.org
- - - -
Official NESEA Tour de Sol information is available from the sponsor,
the Northeast Sustainable Energy Association (NESEA) at
413 774-6051 , and 50 Miles Street, Greenfield, MA 01301 , and
[EMAIL PROTECTED] . All media enquiries should be addressed to ...
Jack Groh
Tour de Sol Communications Director
P.O. Box 6044
Warwick, RI 02887-6044
401 732-1551
401 732-0547 fax
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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In a message dated 5/22/04 2:39:44 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
<< The nearest competitor to
the KillaCycle is 3 seconds behind! Even with 300 lbs of SVR batteries on
board, the bike is still more than a second and a half in front of its
competition. The bike set a record on the first run down the track.
BILL,It seems you have forgotten the time my coz.Sgt.Wes in Vegas waxed that
cycle of yours.He had only driven a dragster 4 runs in his entire life,had to
shut the car down at 1000 feet(a little scared)and was still a second
quicker.At that time we both still had the same amount and type of svr batteries.Your
bike is much lighter than the CE(300lbs?}You had a Pro driver tucked low on
the bike looking for the WIN.WHAT happened??
AGAIN I will challenge the KILLACYCLE with the CURRENT ELIMINATOR same type and
# of batteries(You can verify)You can then set my motor loop lower than your
bikes by 200 amps.$!000.to the winner.
Just a backyard engineer Dennis Kilowatt Berube 3800 SAFE qt.mi.electric
runs
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