EV Digest 4987
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) RE: Smart Chargers, was - Re: Am I Killing Batteries?(+)
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: MG Update
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) RE: Help with batteries
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) The "open-source car" wiki
by Shawn Rutledge <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: EV crashes Corvette Challenge party at Moroso!
by "Brian D.Hall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Flywheel problem
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) RE: EV crashes Corvette Challenge party at Moroso!
by "Matthew D. Graham" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) 26700 Li-ion cell, was Re: MG Update
by Andrew Letton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: The "open-source car" wiki
by "Stefan T. Peters" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: ev desgin
by Jonathan Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Open source car development?
by "Stefan T. Peters" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: battery resurrection technique
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: AC prop reductive charger
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: White Zombie at the 2006 High Voltage Nationals!
by "John Westlund" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Sell me some battery heaters
by "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: The "open-source car" wiki
by Shawn Rutledge <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Open source car development?
by Shawn Rutledge <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Joule Injected weight
by "Matthew D. Graham" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) RE: Setting up a Direct Drive
by "Matthew D. Graham" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Ricky Suiter [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I think the problem with the smart chargers is they just have
> one charging algorythm for any type of battery you hook it up
> to. So these chargers need to charge flooded, gel or AGM
> batteries. So the problem becomes do they set the curve for
> flooded batteries and cook gel's to an early death? No the
> buyer wouldn't be happy because his battery would die real
> quick. So they settle on the most gentle curve that can
> charge anything, but does not charge properly.
Some chargers may behave like this, but it would be a mistake place all
smart chargers in the same category.
Some chargers (e.g. Statpower) have a switch that the user sets to
select the battery type (flooded, AGM, gel), others detect the battery
type automatically, and some require the user to select the appropriate
algorithm for their battery from several choices. However, it is
achieved, the important point is that some smart chargers do use
different algorithms for the different types of batteries.
> BTW, after those two bad batteries were replaced the car's
> running great. I made some slight changes to the charge
> settings, but judging by the sg and voltages I'm seeing both
> before and now I don't think I was undercharging by any means.
What is your fully charged s.g. these days?
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rich Rudman wrote:
> What We need is to have the heavy case removed and have the guts
> that weigh less than half the 2.2 pounds that the whole thing is,
Maybe you could get Milwaukee to sell the inside parts of the battery
factory direct as "replacement parts"... or just make them available.
Can you make your Rudman Regulators be a BMS for these batteries? Or
is there a BMS already built into the battery pack and could that
somehow interface with your PFC chargers?
Why can't John Zick get you all the info you need on those batteries, etc?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bob Bath [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> At 181.7V, the blue came on, stayed on, and the
> voltages are as follows:
[snip]
I take it the voltages you quoted are taken while the pack is still on
charge. Do not rely on these values to make hard decisions about the
health or state of charge of the pack as voltage while charging will
vary from module to module.
Use the resting voltages at least an hour or two after the end of charge
to determine the state of balance/need for equalisation. When
equalising, charge until the s.g stops rising or until the voltage stops
rising, but do not try to charge until the module voltages are equal.
> I'd like to send low current to the batteries at a
> high voltage, but I can't get the charger to do that.
> When I taper back the current, the voltage drops.
The charger is in current limit then; when you adjust the current limit
to a lower value, the voltage drops to the new lower level required to
sustain the current at the lower level.
> I'm
> leery of upping the voltage for fear of damaging the
> batteries.
Your highest battery was only at 2.6V/cell; you ought to be able to
crank up the finish current/voltage somewhat without fear of battery
damage. What is the finish current at now? What temperature is your
pack at?
You mention that the charger is not tapering like it used to, but I
don't think you have given us a clear idea of how it used to behave and
how it is behaving now. Is the charge voltage (181.7V = 2.53V/cell) set
the same as always? What does the current taper to, and how long does
it take to do so? Is the battery temperature the same now as it was
when the prior behaviour was observed, and how does the prior behaviour
differ from the present behaviour?
How many cycles do you have on the pack, and how deep is your typical
discharge?
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have been fleshing out the evproduction.org main page a bit, trying
to broaden the scope to cover everything a newbie would need to know
if such a person hears something about the open-source car idea, and
wants to check it out. So if you haven't been there since yesterday
or before, check it out again.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Looks like S/P switching early because of wheel spin. The zilla s/p switches
when some conditions are met, 1) full throttle, 2) current has dropped to
half of requested.
Good going ! What NEDRA class are you racing in?
Brian D.Hall
> NICE!!!
>
> Your Z2K did the S/P WAY too soon, you need to program that so it stays in
> series longer.
> Get the Nitto 555D, Gone Postal has them and so Does ..Bella the Red... my
> Name for the Beast we made for Monster Garage.
> She's Big Red and Bossy and don't take Crap from nobody....
> By the way My Redhead came up with that name... fits the Image of a 62
Bell
> Air...
>
> Talk to Otmar about that premature.....er... shift problem.
>
> Madman
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Matthew D. Graham" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2005 2:30 PM
> Subject: EV crashes Corvette Challenge party at Moroso!
>
>
> > Hey everyone,
> >
> > This update on the Nissan is way overdue, but describing its performance
> at
> > last night's Corvette Challenge at Moroso Motorsports Park seems like a
> good
> > opportunity to fill you all in. First, though, a little background:
> >
> > I've been driving the 240SX around town for the last month or so. It had
> > been running at 192V for the first three weeks, with the current and
motor
> > voltage settings pretty low (you know--around 1000 amps and 150V to the
> > motors). Last week, though, I got nine more Exide Orbitals and enough
Regs
> > to finally cover each of the 25 batteries. With a grand total of about 4
> > miles use on these last nine batteries, I felt they had more than enough
> > break-in time to take the car to the track!
> >
> > Shawn Waggoner has been in close touch with all the track managers there
> at
> > Moroso for the upcoming Battery Beach Burnout, so earlier last week, he
> > called up the tech inspector, Gary, to see if we could take the car
there
> > for test and tune. Gary says, "No problem, bring it over on Saturday
night
> > during Corvette Challenge and I'll hold them all off when you want to
make
> a
> > few runs down the track." Man, if that's not accommodating, I don't know
> > what is. These guys at Moroso are thrilled to have EVs at the track and
> > they're doing everything they can to make it easy on us.
> >
> > So Saturday around noon, Shawn shows up with the trailer and we get to
> work
> > on a few little details. Hook up reverse lights, raise that pesky
> passenger
> > power window that's just not cooperating, get some decals on the rear
> > window, and give her a nice fill up with the PFC-20. By 4:30 PM, we had
> the
> > 240 loaded up on the trailer, right behind Shawn's X-Terra, to complete
> the
> > 1-2 Nissan punch.
> >
> > We get to the track around 5:30 or so and give Gary a call. "Pull right
on
> > up to the gate and I'll meet you there," he says. At the ticket booth at
> the
> > gate, the lady says, "One driving and one watching: 28 bucks." Gary
pulls
> up
> > in his cart and sets 'em straight, though, and they waive the admission
> fee
> > for us. Nice! We drive on in to the pit area and pull the 240 off the
> > trailer. We head straight over to the tech area and go over the car in
> > detail with Gary and a couple other inspectors. The more they get into
it,
> > the more they're just shaking their heads in disbelief. And by this
time,
> > we've got a crowd of racers around us with questions coming like crazy.
> > Shawn and I took our time answering the inspectors' and racers'
questions,
> > and made sure to let them all know that the first run or two would be
> WAAAAY
> > turned down on power, just to make sure we got some good test time with
it
> > before something let loose. I was conservatively telling people that it
> > might run a 16 second quarter mile, but that eventually they'd see much
> > better than that. You could see that they were loving it, and were
really
> > excited to see what this EV could do!
> >
> > Next, we bring the car back over to the pits and set up the laptop and
my
> > Gtech Pro meter. I set the battery current limit to 1200 amps, motor
> current
> > to 1200 amps and (series) motor voltage to 320 volts. Parallel motor
> current
> > is 2000 amps and parallel voltage is 160. Before I know it, we're
pulling
> up
> > to the front of one of the empty lanes and they just wave me right in! I
> > figured I'd have at least a minute or two to set up the data
acquisition!
> I
> > had already set up Hyperterm to capture the text to a data file, but at
> this
> > point, it was dark enough that I could hardly even see the keyboard to
> start
> > the hairball spitting out data. I pull forward, thinking I just wasn't
> going
> > to get that critical run data. Just as I'm staging, though, I tell
myself
> > there's plenty of time for me to lean over, type "p" and then "Q4" to
> start
> > the data stream. . . there! I did it! . . .just in time to look over and
> see
> > the christmas tree light sitting on GREEN!
> >
> > My foot comes down hard on the accelerator. Amazingly, the little
> 205/60-15
> > street tires manage to bite on the track and the car hurtles forward!
> After
> > a split second, the car lurches, and immediately I figure I lost the
> > driveshaft or at least a shaft key. But no! The car continues to pull
hard
> > all the way down the track. It's going much faster than I had ever taken
> the
> > car on the street, but on the silky smooth track, there's none of the
> > vibration that I used to attribute to my home-made angle iron dual motor
> > mount, or perhaps bad alignment of the motors with the differential. She
> > pulls hard through the quarter mile, and I begin the long coast-down and
> > then turn around to pick up my time slip.
> >
> > The guy handing out the slip is incredulous. "You ran a 14.27 with an
> > ELECTRIC CAR??" Big smile on my face, now: "Yes, I guess I did!" I hit
> 95.06
> > mph through the traps, and to top it off, the 14.274 included a 1.053
> second
> > reaction time from when I was playing with the laptop! We couldn't have
> been
> > more thrilled. It could have easily been a 13.5 run for its first time
> ever
> > on the track, but I was happy to have the data. (Yeah, keep telling
> yourself
> > that, Matt) Plus, I figured there'd be plenty of runs later in the night
> to
> > improve on the time.
> >
> > In the end, though, I was never able to get the tires to hook up again,
> > especially after bumping up the current to *only* 1400 motor amps. With
> the
> > stock Nissan R200 differential, I peg-legged it down the track on runs 2
> and
> > 3. Run 4 was my best launch, but the lack of an appropriately sized
> > generator, not enough time for charging, and the use of precious power
for
> > my only burnout of the night ended up giving me a disappointing 82 mph
> > through the traps.
> >
> > I'm very excited to have the Hairball data from the first run, and some
> > Gtech Pro data from my last run. The motors saw a high speed of 5800 RPM
> on
> > the 95 mph run. I noticed that I was only in series mode for the first
> > three-tenths of a second before it switched to parallel. That was the
> lurch
> > I felt at the beginning. Basically the first three data points were 1250
> > amps, 1000 amps and 750 amps. Then a brief switch to parallel and the
full
> > 2000 amps came in.
> >
> > On the slower fourth run, the data from the Gtech was pretty
interesting,
> > too. It shows 190 HP and 650 ft-lbs of torque at their peaks. It's all
> very
> > encouraging, since I know there's a solid second I can take off the
time,
> > just by paying attention to the lights. I have a planned upgrade to the
> > Nissan R200V, the viscous limited slip differential, which Lowell
Simmons
> > and I just pulled out of his 300ZX. Some wider Nitto or Mickey Thompson
> drag
> > radials are in store for the larger 16", five-lug wheels from the 300ZX,
> > too. And I still haven't tapped out the Z2K as far as series motor
current
> > and motor voltage. Should make for a good showing at the Battery Beach
> > Burnout!
> >
> > The whole night couldn't have been much better (please don't bring up
the
> > reaction time, though--it's really starting to bother me now!) I can't
> > stress enough how great the folks at Moroso have been. Shawn spent some
> time
> > up with the announcers, and they were all too happy to spread the word
> over
> > the loudspeaker about "the black Nissan electric car" and the upcoming
> event
> > in January. Gary was all smiles at the end of the night, and mentioned
how
> > everyone -- racers and staff, alike -- couldn't stop talking about the
> car.
> >
> > I've been calling the 240SX "Joule Injected", and you'll be able to
check
> > out the updates at http://www.jouleinjected.com
> > <http://www.jouleinjected.com> once I finally get around to posting
more
> > pics up there. So far, there's only a test image of the contactor setup
> and
> > a proud Z2K on the firewall, but I've got a library of about 200 pics
> ready
> > to upload. Check it out later this week!
> >
> > Matt Graham
> > 300V Nissan 240SX "Joule Injected"
> > Hobe Sound, FL
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Osmo,
The hole with M5 thread on the bottom of your 1LH5118 motor is meant
to hold a flywheel from sliding off the shaft, so this is adequate.
Remember, the shaft only transmits torque, there is no axial force
along the shaft trying to slide flywheel out other than mass of the
flywheel during cornering (sharp turns). Use class 8 or so bolt.
James Massey wrote:
At 11:07 AM 12/12/05 +0200, Osmo wrote:
I´m still trying to figure out how I should fasten the flywheel to my
motor. Or should I dump the flywheel/clutch. I´d prefer not to.
I have two flywheel joint options and fancy drawings in my page:
http://www.saunalahti.fi/~osarin/
Siemens AC Motor? I thought that they had splined adaptors already
available?
OK, ignoring that, how well do you get on with your local machine shop?
Are they GOOD? Pull the shaft out of the motor, get them to make a short
splined shaft that is interference fit, then chill the shaft, heat the
end of the rotor and bang it in quickly. Done right, it will NEVER move.
Done wrong it'll split the end of the rotor shaft (too big) or come
loose (too small).
I don't know where you got your motor, but usually if you take the shaft
out you loose the warranty on it right then. May or may not be relevant
to you.
Victor
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey Brian,
. . . And 3) none of the limits are hit.
I think you're exactly right about the wheel spin. That's what I figured,
and it fits with the behavior of the car in that first second of the run.
The tires bit pretty well at first, but then let loose just a few feet into
the track -- around 0.3 seconds into the run. The current dropped to nothing
during the shift for another three or four tenths of a second, allowing the
tires to hold onto the ground again, then hold tight for the rest of the run
in parallel mode. I can't wait to put in the Viscous LSD from the 300ZX and
get some drag radials on the wheels.
The car is completely stock, other than the addition of the obvious EV
components and removal of the ICE stuff, so that should put me pretty
squarely in SC/A class.
Thanks,
Matt Graham
300V "Joule Injected" Nissan
Hobe Sound, FL
-----Original Message-----
From: Brian D.Hall [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, December 12, 2005 3:58 PM
To: Rich Rudman; ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: EV crashes Corvette Challenge party at Moroso!
Looks like S/P switching early because of wheel spin. The zilla s/p switches
when some conditions are met, 1) full throttle, 2) current has dropped to
half of requested.
Good going ! What NEDRA class are you racing in?
Brian D.Hall
> NICE!!!
>
> Your Z2K did the S/P WAY too soon, you need to program that so it
> stays in series longer.
> Get the Nitto 555D, Gone Postal has them and so Does ..Bella the
> Red... my Name for the Beast we made for Monster Garage.
> She's Big Red and Bossy and don't take Crap from nobody....
> By the way My Redhead came up with that name... fits the Image of a 62
Bell
> Air...
>
> Talk to Otmar about that premature.....er... shift problem.
>
> Madman
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Matthew D. Graham" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2005 2:30 PM
> Subject: EV crashes Corvette Challenge party at Moroso!
>
>
> > Hey everyone,
> >
> > This update on the Nissan is way overdue, but describing its
> > performance
> at
> > last night's Corvette Challenge at Moroso Motorsports Park seems
> > like a
> good
> > opportunity to fill you all in. First, though, a little background:
> >
> > I've been driving the 240SX around town for the last month or so. It
> > had been running at 192V for the first three weeks, with the current
> > and
motor
> > voltage settings pretty low (you know--around 1000 amps and 150V to
> > the motors). Last week, though, I got nine more Exide Orbitals and
> > enough
Regs
> > to finally cover each of the 25 batteries. With a grand total of
> > about 4 miles use on these last nine batteries, I felt they had more
> > than enough break-in time to take the car to the track!
> >
> > Shawn Waggoner has been in close touch with all the track managers
> > there
> at
> > Moroso for the upcoming Battery Beach Burnout, so earlier last week,
> > he called up the tech inspector, Gary, to see if we could take the
> > car
there
> > for test and tune. Gary says, "No problem, bring it over on Saturday
night
> > during Corvette Challenge and I'll hold them all off when you want
> > to
make
> a
> > few runs down the track." Man, if that's not accommodating, I don't
> > know what is. These guys at Moroso are thrilled to have EVs at the
> > track and they're doing everything they can to make it easy on us.
> >
> > So Saturday around noon, Shawn shows up with the trailer and we get
> > to
> work
> > on a few little details. Hook up reverse lights, raise that pesky
> passenger
> > power window that's just not cooperating, get some decals on the
> > rear window, and give her a nice fill up with the PFC-20. By 4:30
> > PM, we had
> the
> > 240 loaded up on the trailer, right behind Shawn's X-Terra, to
> > complete
> the
> > 1-2 Nissan punch.
> >
> > We get to the track around 5:30 or so and give Gary a call. "Pull
> > right
on
> > up to the gate and I'll meet you there," he says. At the ticket
> > booth at
> the
> > gate, the lady says, "One driving and one watching: 28 bucks." Gary
pulls
> up
> > in his cart and sets 'em straight, though, and they waive the
> > admission
> fee
> > for us. Nice! We drive on in to the pit area and pull the 240 off
> > the trailer. We head straight over to the tech area and go over the
> > car in detail with Gary and a couple other inspectors. The more they
> > get into
it,
> > the more they're just shaking their heads in disbelief. And by this
time,
> > we've got a crowd of racers around us with questions coming like crazy.
> > Shawn and I took our time answering the inspectors' and racers'
questions,
> > and made sure to let them all know that the first run or two would
> > be
> WAAAAY
> > turned down on power, just to make sure we got some good test time
> > with
it
> > before something let loose. I was conservatively telling people that
> > it might run a 16 second quarter mile, but that eventually they'd
> > see much better than that. You could see that they were loving it,
> > and were
really
> > excited to see what this EV could do!
> >
> > Next, we bring the car back over to the pits and set up the laptop
> > and
my
> > Gtech Pro meter. I set the battery current limit to 1200 amps, motor
> current
> > to 1200 amps and (series) motor voltage to 320 volts. Parallel motor
> current
> > is 2000 amps and parallel voltage is 160. Before I know it, we're
pulling
> up
> > to the front of one of the empty lanes and they just wave me right
> > in! I figured I'd have at least a minute or two to set up the data
acquisition!
> I
> > had already set up Hyperterm to capture the text to a data file, but
> > at
> this
> > point, it was dark enough that I could hardly even see the keyboard
> > to
> start
> > the hairball spitting out data. I pull forward, thinking I just
> > wasn't
> going
> > to get that critical run data. Just as I'm staging, though, I tell
myself
> > there's plenty of time for me to lean over, type "p" and then "Q4"
> > to
> start
> > the data stream. . . there! I did it! . . .just in time to look over
> > and
> see
> > the christmas tree light sitting on GREEN!
> >
> > My foot comes down hard on the accelerator. Amazingly, the little
> 205/60-15
> > street tires manage to bite on the track and the car hurtles forward!
> After
> > a split second, the car lurches, and immediately I figure I lost the
> > driveshaft or at least a shaft key. But no! The car continues to
> > pull
hard
> > all the way down the track. It's going much faster than I had ever
> > taken
> the
> > car on the street, but on the silky smooth track, there's none of
> > the vibration that I used to attribute to my home-made angle iron
> > dual motor mount, or perhaps bad alignment of the motors with the
> > differential. She pulls hard through the quarter mile, and I begin
> > the long coast-down and then turn around to pick up my time slip.
> >
> > The guy handing out the slip is incredulous. "You ran a 14.27 with
> > an ELECTRIC CAR??" Big smile on my face, now: "Yes, I guess I did!"
> > I hit
> 95.06
> > mph through the traps, and to top it off, the 14.274 included a
> > 1.053
> second
> > reaction time from when I was playing with the laptop! We couldn't
> > have
> been
> > more thrilled. It could have easily been a 13.5 run for its first
> > time
> ever
> > on the track, but I was happy to have the data. (Yeah, keep telling
> yourself
> > that, Matt) Plus, I figured there'd be plenty of runs later in the
> > night
> to
> > improve on the time.
> >
> > In the end, though, I was never able to get the tires to hook up
> > again, especially after bumping up the current to *only* 1400 motor
> > amps. With
> the
> > stock Nissan R200 differential, I peg-legged it down the track on
> > runs 2
> and
> > 3. Run 4 was my best launch, but the lack of an appropriately sized
> > generator, not enough time for charging, and the use of precious
> > power
for
> > my only burnout of the night ended up giving me a disappointing 82
> > mph through the traps.
> >
> > I'm very excited to have the Hairball data from the first run, and
> > some Gtech Pro data from my last run. The motors saw a high speed of
> > 5800 RPM
> on
> > the 95 mph run. I noticed that I was only in series mode for the
> > first three-tenths of a second before it switched to parallel. That
> > was the
> lurch
> > I felt at the beginning. Basically the first three data points were
> > 1250 amps, 1000 amps and 750 amps. Then a brief switch to parallel
> > and the
full
> > 2000 amps came in.
> >
> > On the slower fourth run, the data from the Gtech was pretty
interesting,
> > too. It shows 190 HP and 650 ft-lbs of torque at their peaks. It's
> > all
> very
> > encouraging, since I know there's a solid second I can take off the
time,
> > just by paying attention to the lights. I have a planned upgrade to
> > the Nissan R200V, the viscous limited slip differential, which
> > Lowell
Simmons
> > and I just pulled out of his 300ZX. Some wider Nitto or Mickey
> > Thompson
> drag
> > radials are in store for the larger 16", five-lug wheels from the
> > 300ZX, too. And I still haven't tapped out the Z2K as far as series
> > motor
current
> > and motor voltage. Should make for a good showing at the Battery
> > Beach Burnout!
> >
> > The whole night couldn't have been much better (please don't bring
> > up
the
> > reaction time, though--it's really starting to bother me now!) I
> > can't stress enough how great the folks at Moroso have been. Shawn
> > spent some
> time
> > up with the announcers, and they were all too happy to spread the
> > word
> over
> > the loudspeaker about "the black Nissan electric car" and the
> > upcoming
> event
> > in January. Gary was all smiles at the end of the night, and
> > mentioned
how
> > everyone -- racers and staff, alike -- couldn't stop talking about
> > the
> car.
> >
> > I've been calling the 240SX "Joule Injected", and you'll be able to
check
> > out the updates at http://www.jouleinjected.com
> > <http://www.jouleinjected.com> once I finally get around to posting
more
> > pics up there. So far, there's only a test image of the contactor
> > setup
> and
> > a proud Z2K on the firewall, but I've got a library of about 200
> > pics
> ready
> > to upload. Check it out later this week!
> >
> > Matt Graham
> > 300V Nissan 240SX "Joule Injected"
> > Hobe Sound, FL
> >
>
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The 26700 Li-ion battery used in the Milwaukee V28 tools is made by:
http://www.molienergy.com/index.htm
Their home page shows one of the cells, but there doesn't appear to be
any other info on the battery on their site. As I understand it, they
have a somewhat exclusive agreement with Milwaukee, or maybe it's just
that they haven't ramped production capacity up enough to sell them to
anyone else. I've heard that they are tooling up to build these cells
in their Taiwanese factory, which is evidenced by the fact that their
26700 cell appears on the Taiwan site:
http://www.e-one.com.tw/
Press release with some tech spec's:
http://www.e-one.com.tw/News_2005_e.htm
Article from their site: http://www.e-one.com.tw/Moli Energy (VanSun).pdf
A Swedish company that also appears to be making a 26700 variant is:
http://www.abatel.com/pdf/AbatelNews_En_050708d.pdf
...but I don't have any more information on them.
HTH,
Andrew (who is working on development of a medical device that uses the
Moli 26700 cell...)
Ryan Stotts wrote:
Rich Rudman wrote:
What We need is to have the heavy case removed and have the guts
that weigh less than half the 2.2 pounds that the whole thing is,
Maybe you could get Milwaukee to sell the inside parts of the battery
factory direct as "replacement parts"... or just make them available.
Can you make your Rudman Regulators be a BMS for these batteries? Or
is there a BMS already built into the battery pack and could that
somehow interface with your PFC chargers?
Why can't John Zick get you all the info you need on those batteries, etc?
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Shawn Rutledge wrote:
I have been fleshing out the evproduction.org main page a bit, trying
to broaden the scope to cover everything a newbie would need to know
if such a person hears something about the open-source car idea, and
wants to check it out. So if you haven't been there since yesterday
or before, check it out again.
Nice! ... I say we don't install a wiki on evforge, just link to
evproduction.org (there is plenty to do without making a new wiki)
Ryan?
--
Stefan T. Peters
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I am new here, too. And, I had to grin at your statement about forgoing range.
The range that you have sketched would be excellent for most most
conversions except the premium ones with Lithium, NiMH or monster
battery packs. Range is the "dead white elephant in the middle of the
living room" that EVers try to ignore.
Additional information that might be helpful in answering your
question would be the weight of the donor vehicle and the temperature
ranges at your location.
> desire a minimum amount of performance. I'd appreciate hearing
> recomendations for system components to meet the following requirements.
>
> 1. 25 mile round-trip commute - freeway; however short on-ramp with
> quick acceleration from 35-55 mph needed
> 2. Travel in-town requires climbing a steep hill (18% incline) at 45
> mph - 1/2 mile
>
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Well, I played around with Drupal - it's got everything but the kitchen
sink. The downside is that it will take more time at first because of
the very steep learning curve for moderators. You have to learn a bunch
of "concepts" before performing basic tasks. Maybe we move to that later...
After spending hours with opensourcecms.com demos, I have come up with a
short list for quick and painless CMS setups. I will install all of
them, and let the future moderators/users try 'em out & choose.
As to the hardware.... I *did* locate perhaps a better fitting option...
how about a Sun Cobalt RAQ 550? Less raw power, but much better control
software.
Either way, It seems the workable overall solution is to offer a virtual
host w/separate installation of an easy-to-use site builder package for
each user who wants a website for their project. This way, they can
create HTML and FTP the old-fashioned way (just delete the existing site
builder files), or they can use the browser based editing stuff that
looks like Word and has auto everything.
And the main site (directory/forum/articles/shared gallery/news/wiki)
could run just about anything we want, and it could be later changed
without effecting the project users.
I'm tossing the CMS software on the "RAQDevil" (such a group can't
really pay for $un software, so I'm using the open-source port) right
now. The manual for the server is here:
http://electroniczombie.com/files/manual.raq550.en.pdf (2.7MB) So read
up and let me know Ryan and Michaela (and other future evforge admins)
--
Stefan T. Peters
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Carl Clifford wrote:
> I found a technique to resurrect power tool batteries...
> Open the battery case (usually four screws).
> Pull out the pack.
> test the voltage of each cell.
> one or several cells will read 0, mark these cells
> Use a 12v charger or a 12 v battery and connect the leads pos to pos and
> neg to neg to the zero cells for 3 seconds each.
> These formerly zero cells will now read a voltage.
> Re-assemble case
> Place battery in chager.
This trick is specific to nicads; don't try it with any other type!
Here's what's going on: If you force current to flow through a dead nicad
cell, it tends to short. This happens, for example, if you have several cells
in series and discharge them too deeply. The good cells force current to keep
flowing through the first cell that goes dead, shorting it.
Once shorted, it won't recharge. But you can burn out the short with a *brief*
high-current pulse. Usually, all it takes is a few amps for a fraction of a
second.
The current pulse burns out the short, but it also leaves a hole in the
plastic separator between the plates. The cell will now have a very high
self-discharge rate, and is likely to short again. You'll notice that the
cell goes dead again if allowed to sit for just a few days.
Too much current, or applying it for too long just does unnecessary damage to
the separator. Connecting it to 12v for 3 seconds is WAY too drastic!!!
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Lee Hart wrote:
>> [using the controller as a charger] can be (and has been) done for either
>> AC or DC... you need:
>>
>> - An EV controller that supports regenerative braking (i.e. it can
>> charge the batteries).
>>
>> - A very high power AC receptacle.
>>
>> - Sufficient control logic to avoid blowing something up!
Otmar wrote:
> It also needs about a 336V or higher pack voltage. That becomes a
> problem since high voltage packs end up being so very expensive per
> mile of use.
No; you can charge an arbitrarily low pack voltage. But the semiconductors in
the controller need to withstand the peak voltage of the rectified AC line.
Let's say your EV has a 96v pack, a series DC motor, and a PWM controller.
Suppose your controller has 200v (or higher) rated transistors, diodes, and
input capacitors. Then you could wire it like this to charge from 120vac
(view with a fixed-width font):
_________ ______________ _ _ _
120vac____| |______|______________|_____| | | |_______
hot AC| |+ B+| | _|_ | motor field __|__+
| | | _|_ /_\ | ___
| | | ___ |___|___________________| -
| | | | |_| |M- 96v
| | | | ||_ | battery
| | | | | | | pack
neutral___| -|______|___|______| |
AC|_________|- B-|______________|
bridge rectifier controller
The controller's throttle pot controls the charging voltage and current.
The same would work for a 240vac input if you had 400v transistors, diodes,
and capacitors.
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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John Wayland wrote:
>I think I can take care of this problem for you....how
>'bout taking a wheel lofting spin in White Zombie for
>your first EV ride? Can you wait that long? Tim's
>gotten pretty good at steering the thing with the
>front tires off the ground...he'll be happy to give
>you a 'lift' :-)
That would make for an awesome first impression. If I happen
to bring any friends there, they might finally change their
minds about EVs...
>Mr. Westlund, now you have even more reason to be at
>the Route 66 track!
Provided I can make it out there and the race is
held(barring bad weather and such), it's a done deal. See
you there.
Depending upon whether or not I have the Triumph taken apart
at the time, I may just have to drive it up there. Things
just wouldn't feel right without that little road terror to
keep me company.
Think Otmar might haul his hippie van and Porsche out there,
or is that asking for the race season to be just too
perfect?
I look forward to meeting many of the list members at this
event. I'll try not to scare everyone away, as I'm a little
on the Rich Rudman side of psychotic. :-)
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Hi Folks
I am doing some comparison shopping for flat battery heaters, I know there
are quite a few different ones.
Reliability is more important than low cost.
Looking for a reliable product and supplier.
Please contact me off-list.
roylemeur at hotmail dot com
Thanks!
.
Roy LeMeur
Olympia WA
My Electric Vehicle Pages:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evpage.html
Informative Electric Vehicle Links:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evlinks.html
EV Parts/Gone Postal Photo Galleries:
http://www.casadelgato.com/RoyLemeur/page01.htm
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On 12/12/05, Stefan T. Peters <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Nice! ... I say we don't install a wiki on evforge, just link to
> evproduction.org (there is plenty to do without making a new wiki)
Well I was hoping we weren't going to duplicate the effort. But if
you have access to fancy servers like that for free, it might be worth
considering a transition to one of those machines when my dues are up
for renewal at dreamhost, or if traffic gets to be too much for it; or
we could do some kind of automatic mirroring thing for greater
reliability. I think wikipedia is doing something like that. But we
are very small so far, and it will not be a problem for a long time; I
have plenty of disk and bandwidth quota. But if a link ever gets
posted on slashdot (probably just a matter of time), there will be a
huge flood of traffic all at once.
A better logo would be good. Do you have a design in mind? The one
that is there, is a stupid little sketch of the Freedom EV, which was
supposed to be a cute, cartoonish caricature but actually just looks
like a scaled-up, blurry bitmap, which is what it actually is. And
with no windows and no rear wheel it doesn't look like a real car,
either (but I still don't know exactly how they are going to look).
But what we need is something that succinctly represents the idea of
building your own EV, and fits that space available for it on the
wiki. Any good artist/cartoonist types in our midst?
Jerry has sent me the "knowledge base" so I will have a look at that
tonight and try to figure out whether to assimilate it somehow, or
just offer it as a downloadable file.
I was also thinking of trying to post Lee Hart's circuit diagrams,
because they are a little hard to find by just searching the archives.
You wouldn't mind would you, Lee? Or has this been done yet?
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On 12/11/05, Lightning Ryan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/MediaWiki
> Lately I'm a real big fan of mediawiki, good or bad I like to think it
> could be used for many of the parts of such a site. Unlike the real
Well that's what we're running over at evproduction.org.
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Hi All,
John Westlund asked:
"How much does it weigh? Any expectations as to what its range might be?"
The 240SX is right around 3250 lbs (without driver) and the breakdown is as
follows:
RF 750 RR 850
LF 775 LR 875
That gives me a weight distribution of 1525/1725, or 47/53, front-to-rear. I
ended up mounting the motors quite a bit more towards the back than I had
planned originally in order to get the correct mounting angle in relation to
the differential. (Thanks to John Wayland for starting that thread quite a
while back when he had all the vibration issues)
You can see that the front sits up quite a bit higher than it used to, and
the back is dragging a bit. Nothing a little spring work can't fix up!
At lunch today, I drove the 240 up the road about 10 miles to a local golf
cart shop. They've been running a 96V cart with a four-speed contactor setup
that does better than 70 mph. I figured they'd enjoy a spirited, Joule
Injected ride. Man, they loved it, and I still had plenty of juice left to
get back home. Two hours later, hooked up to 220 VAC, I had regs blinking
away happily! So, I'd definitely say I'm in the 30+ mile range.
Matt Graham
300V "Joule Injected" Nissan
Hobe Sound, FL
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Hi Jody,
That sounds like a pretty neat idea. However, after wrestling 350 lbs of 9"
motors and mounting bracket into the underside of my 240, I'd say you've got
a little bit of fabrication work ahead of you. The driveshaft tube that
you'd like to put the 9" motor into is maybe 7" in diameter from right
behind the tranny tailshaft back to the input to the differential. You'd
essentially have to cut out and re-fabricate the majority, if not all of
that tube, including the area where the front seats attach right up against
it. My motors are mounted with the terminals facing up, but I've got room in
the area where the tranny used to be so that the terminals don't actually
rest directly on the sheet metal underside of the car! Those 7" GE motors
that James has would probably make for a cleaner installation, especially
with the terminals facing down.
Also, the stock 4.08:1 ratio's not going to be too fun at low speeds unless
you've got some serious amps behind that motor. You can change the ring and
pinion to a 4.646:1, but that's the highest ratio you can get from NISMO.
Sounds like a fun project!
Matt Graham
300V "Joule Injected" Nissan
Hobe Sound, FL
-----Original Message-----
From: Dewey, Jody R ATC (CVN75 IM3) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, December 12, 2005 7:06 AM
To: 'ev@listproc.sjsu.edu'
Subject: RE: Setting up a Direct Drive
After a LOT of thought I was thinking of doing the same sort of thing with
my Nissan 240SX. I was thinking since the transmission and rear end pumpkin
are both fixed and bolted to the frame the distance between them is almost
the same distance as a 9" ADC motor. If I got the motor with the two shafts
I could hook U-joint couplings to it and attach it where the driveshaft used
to be. WALA! Hybrid. Put a big switch on the front dash for Gas or
Electric and Add some batteries and see what happens. I would just have to
remember to put the transmission in Neutral while driving on the electric.
I am thinking if I keep the speed below 40 the electric in direct drive
would be happy. If I needed to go on the highway just switch to gas, put it
in 4th, start the motor, and release the clutch. Am I smoking crack or
would this actually work?
-----Original Message-----
From: James Massey [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, December 09, 2005 4:41 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Setting up a Direct Drive
At 12:57 PM 9/12/05 -0800, Joel wrote:
>I could use some help in thinking about how to properly connect an
>electric motor to a driveshaft through a u-joint. I want to set up a
>direct drive for a rear wheel-drive car. What is the best way to do
>this?
Hi Joel
I assume you are intending to keep the rear axle assembly? That gives the
gear reduction to allow a motor to run at reasonable RPMs.
The ::best:: way I know of is to have a new shaft put into the motor/s that
has the tailshaft spline cut directly into it (along the lines of White
Zombies' current setup). That way a standard tailshaft can be used (not
necessarily the original of the donor vehicle).
If it is a street use vehicle, in most places in the world there is a
requirement for an odometer, in which case it would be an issue. To use the
output shaft and back end of a gearbox grafted onto the motor is probably
the most effective, although depending on your access to machining may not
be cheap for you. I have a pair of 7" GE DC motors that I am keeping aside
with ideas to make them up onto an assembly similar to White Zombies' old
setup, but include the back end of the transmission. If I ever get there
that would go into the wifes' Nissan Skyline (used as a shopping trolley).
We replaced the transmission last year, and the length of the transmission
is about the space I'd need for the two DC motors. [Evil thoughts to bolt up
the front end of the tranny to conceal the two GEs and put a tiddly little
motor onto the old input shaft stub...get 'em every time].
James
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