EV Digest 5481
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Rear Diff over heating
by "Michael Neverdosky" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Rear Diff over heating
by "Michael Neverdosky" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Saft Aussie, Was: Re: Deka AGM vs. Sanyo D nicad
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) RE: Saft Aussie, Was: Re: Deka AGM vs. Sanyo D nicad
by "Robert Chew" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) RE: Rear Diff over heating
by "Grigg. John" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Rear Diff over heating
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) RE: Saft Aussie, Was: Re: Deka AGM vs. Sanyo D nicad
by "Robert Chew" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Vectrix
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Why no COMMENTS good-or-bad
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: $67K for a RAV4 EV?!
by Edward Kellogg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Charging thoughts on the regs
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: $67K for a RAV4 EV?!
by "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) RE: $67K for a RAV4 EV?!
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Vectrix
by "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Efficiency of flooded lead acids
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: $67K for a RAV4 EV?!
by "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Charging thoughts on the regs
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) High Voltage Pictures & Video
by "Shawn M. Waggoner \(EVDL\)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: When it rains build rainbows, roadtrip update
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Efficiency of flooded lead acids
by "Ted C." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Rear Diff over heating
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) RE: Deka AGM vs. Sanyo D nicad
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Charging thoughts on the regs
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Brushless ETEK available.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Vectrix
by Mark Hastings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: Drill Bits for Plastics, Plexiglas, & Acyrlics
by sharkey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) RAV4 EV battery pack on E bay
by "jerryd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: $67K for a RAV4 EV?!
by John Norton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) RE: my own outlet
by "Rick Todd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
30) RE: my own outlet
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
31) RE: my own outlet
by "Rick Todd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
32) New hybrid transmission, motors for car companiesRe: Why no COMMENTS
good-or-bad
by "jerryd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
33) The ultimate oppertunity charge
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
34) Re: my own outlet
by "Evan Tuer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Service the rear diff NOW!
Or take it to a good shop and have it serviced.
There must be LOTS of friction inside for the diff to get that how
that fast. This means that it is likely dry and has significant
internal damage. I would plan on a complete overhaul of the diff and
feel lucky if anything can be reused.
In any case it needs to be opened and inspected by someone who knows
what they are doing. This way it can be fixed and set up right to run
quiet, smooth and cool and not waste your juice.
Do you have lockout hubs on the front wheels?
If not, add them so you can stop turning all the front drive hardware
when not needed.
Removing the 4wd on most trucks includes replacing most of the front
end with components from a 2wd truck so it is fairly major surgery.
It might be faster, easier, cheaper to just move your EV gear to a
donor 2wd truck than to convert the 4wd to 2wd.
Front lockout hubs will save the drag of turning the drive components.
Changing back to the 2wd setup will also save weight.
Myself, I have a great use for 4wd at least 7-8 months of the year so
I would go with the hubs. If you don't need 4wd or use it very rarely
then going to 2wd might be better overall.
In any case the rear diff needs repair now.
michael (on the edge of the Alaskan bush)
On 5/14/06, Grigg. John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I getting poor efficiency from my new EV, about 650whr/mile. It's a S10
Blazer 4x4. after a few miles of driving the rear diff gets hot to the
touch. What is usually done to fix this issue? I'm also thinking about
removing the 4 wheel drive equipment to help as well. Any suggestions?
John Grigg
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
As a point of reference, I can use my van to tow my 10,000 pound
trailer and the diff only gets warm.
That is it is quite warm to the touch but I can leave my hand on it
without injury.
That is driving a total combined gross weight of about 16,000 pounds
at 55 miles per hour.
Note, I an checking the temp after stopping, not hanging under the van
at speed.
:)
If the diff is hot enough to make you jerk your hand away that is too
hot and is an indication of trouble.
A good mechanic who works on rearends can see things that the rest of
us will miss. There is a fair amount of art in setting them up along
with the science.
Anyone who is willing to do ALL the steps and take the time to do them
over and over until they are just right can service a diff with good
results but people who do it all the time will be so much faster that
it is usually worth paying for the service.
Gears too tight or too loose can also generate excesive heat as can
failed lubricant.
It is worthwhile to find the real problem and fix it right the first time.
michael
On 5/14/06, Don Cameron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
If the bearings are starting to sieze, this will generate heat. Jack up the
wheels, put the transfer case in neutral and turn the driveshaft.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 09:54 PM 14/05/06 +1000, Robert Chew wrote:
Where can you buy these Saft batts the flooded nicad's. Sorry for my
ignorance.
I am sick of my poor range from my EV only 25 km's to 70%. I need at least
a comfortable 50km on a charge to be practical.
I don't mind ordering from Europe or even if there is a Aussie distributor
How much are these. I went on the Saft website and there was no indication
o n how to buy or the price.
G'day Robert
Saft Australia Pty Ltd
167 Prospect Hwy Seven Hills NSW 2147
ph: (02) 9674 0700
Saft Australia Pty Ltd
7 Dunham Way Heathridge WA 6027
ph: (08) 9402 0596
(from yellow pages on line)
Hope this helps
[Technik] James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi James,
Very good, Seven Hills is just around the corner.
Cheers
From: James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Saft Aussie, Was: Re: Deka AGM vs. Sanyo D nicad
Date: Mon, 15 May 2006 07:01:32 +1000
At 09:54 PM 14/05/06 +1000, Robert Chew wrote:
Where can you buy these Saft batts the flooded nicad's. Sorry for my
ignorance.
I am sick of my poor range from my EV only 25 km's to 70%. I need at least
a comfortable 50km on a charge to be practical.
I don't mind ordering from Europe or even if there is a Aussie distributor
How much are these. I went on the Saft website and there was no indication
o n how to buy or the price.
G'day Robert
Saft Australia Pty Ltd
167 Prospect Hwy Seven Hills NSW 2147
ph: (02) 9674 0700
Saft Australia Pty Ltd
7 Dunham Way Heathridge WA 6027
ph: (08) 9402 0596
(from yellow pages on line)
Hope this helps
[Technik] James
_________________________________________________________________
Read, write and reply to Hotmail on your mobile. Find out more.
http://mobilecentral.ninemsn.com.au/mcmobileHotmail/home.aspx
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I pulled off the Diff cover and drained the unit. The old oil had a bad
smell to it and a gray color. I spun the wheels by hand and most of the
friction seams to be coming from my new brake drum shoes. I didn't see
any obvious damage so I replaced the cover and put in new Synthetic gear
oil. I going to drive it around soon and check for more heating.
I might still have a problem though; after spinning both wheels forward
by hand, I get maybe 1.5 turns out of it before it stops. It is in
neutral and I pushed hard as I could.
Thanks for the help guys...
John Grigg
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Is this symptom new? or is it just being noticed. The lubrication is
first to check/change.
To keep rear ends quiet, the mesh is a slideing contact and it eats a
lot of power. ( believe it or not, up to 25%) A truck is heavier duty
than a car and has larger area so it can get very hot.
Escessive preload on the pinion can make things worse, If it is a
limited slip and one tire has a smaller effective radius,
(under-inflated, overloaded) the limited slip may be constantly slipping
and that gets hot. Even excessive play can cause heating above normal,
how does it sound?
Perhaps it is a gearing ratio issue, if the ratio was designed for a
taller tire than you have now, it may be that it is spinning too fast ,
the list guru's can answer this, maybe this is a case where larger tire
diameters and changeing which gears you select to keep the diddy
spinning slower will help.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Just called them. They don't sell any flooded nicads for ev appliations.
they only design systems that incorporate them. Damn!!
And they used to sell the flooded nicads 140 amphr, 6 volt blocks for $1400
each....Wow.
No thanks, i think i will go lithiums later.
Cheers
From: James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Saft Aussie, Was: Re: Deka AGM vs. Sanyo D nicad
Date: Mon, 15 May 2006 07:01:32 +1000
At 09:54 PM 14/05/06 +1000, Robert Chew wrote:
Where can you buy these Saft batts the flooded nicad's. Sorry for my
ignorance.
I am sick of my poor range from my EV only 25 km's to 70%. I need at least
a comfortable 50km on a charge to be practical.
I don't mind ordering from Europe or even if there is a Aussie distributor
How much are these. I went on the Saft website and there was no indication
o n how to buy or the price.
G'day Robert
Saft Australia Pty Ltd
167 Prospect Hwy Seven Hills NSW 2147
ph: (02) 9674 0700
Saft Australia Pty Ltd
7 Dunham Way Heathridge WA 6027
ph: (08) 9402 0596
(from yellow pages on line)
Hope this helps
[Technik] James
_________________________________________________________________
Play Music Trivia for your chance to win 2 VIP tickets to the 2006 Splendour
in the Grass festival at Byron Bay. Go now!
http://ninemsn.com.au/share/redir/adTrack.asp?mode=click&clientID=690&referral=hotmailtagline&URL=http://competitions.ninemsn.com.au/treasurehunt/hunt15.asp
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/765 Seems it is no longer vaporware.
Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Reedmaker
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
Vegetable Oil Car.
415-821-3519
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Huh? IMHO, a car that tops out at 40 mph IS an NEV!!!
Joe
By law it is a motorcycle. LR..........
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On May 1, 2006, at 7:49 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?
ViewItem&item=4633576306
Are you trying to insinuate something? It could just be that the
interested parties only use ebay occasionally, for something important.
Ed Kellogg
e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Chat… eckellogg138 (AIM)
eckellogg3838 (AIM)
Skype eckellogg
ICQ 243051412
Vescere bracis meis
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
A question for reg type people:
To what voltage level should I charge my batteries now that I have regs?
I used to go to 375 or so, but that is 15 volts per battery. Which
probably caused them to gas.
But now I have .5a (well, more like .6a with the resistor in there) regs
on the batteries. Should I go to 367?
Also can I trust my e-meter anymore for state of charge? I used to use
it as an ah counter; at a 98% CEF (AGMs) a +.2ah at end of charge would
usually indicate the batteries were full. However now I have regs, does
that change the final numbers?
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> On May 1, 2006, at 7:49 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?
> > ViewItem&item=4633576306
>
> Are you trying to insinuate something? It could just be that the
> interested parties only use ebay occasionally, for something important.
>
>
>
> Ed Kellogg
>
> e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Chat
eckellogg138 (AIM)
> eckellogg3838 (AIM)
> Skype eckellogg
> ICQ 243051412
Has nothing to do with eBay. If you've been on the EVDL long enough,
you'd know what this was a reference to.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
"Death to all Spammers" (I cannot find you name anywhere on the list), to
help out us "newbies", do you mind sharing with us your experience? What is
it that you mean by the note?
Thanks
Don
Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
see the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Death to All Spammers
Sent: May 14, 2006 7:20 PM
To: Edward Kellogg
Subject: Re: $67K for a RAV4 EV?!
> On May 1, 2006, at 7:49 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?
> > ViewItem&item=4633576306
>
> Are you trying to insinuate something? It could just be that the
> interested parties only use ebay occasionally, for something important.
>
>
>
> Ed Kellogg
>
> e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Chat. eckellogg138 (AIM)
> eckellogg3838 (AIM)
> Skype eckellogg
> ICQ 243051412
Has nothing to do with eBay. If you've been on the EVDL long enough, you'd
know what this was a reference to.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/765 Seems it is no longer vaporware.
> Lawrence Rhodes
> Bassoon/Contrabassoon
> Reedmaker
> Book 4/5 doubler
> Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
> Vegetable Oil Car.
> 415-821-3519
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
What I'd like to know is where did they get large-capacity NiMH cells
- I thought no-one was currently licensed to make them...or has that
changed?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
"Ted C." wrote:
> I just have to add that most of the web site
> http://xtronics.com/reference/batterap.htm
> was really good information.
I found a lot of this information to be only approximately correct.
There are numerous errors and oversimplifications. I'd suggest treating
it more as opinion than established fact.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> "Death to all Spammers" (I cannot find you name anywhere on the
list), to
> help out us "newbies", do you mind sharing with us your experience?
What is
> it that you mean by the note?
>
> Thanks
> Don
>
The auto industry says there is no demand for EVs, but a used RAV4
sells for $20K over MSRP? Seems to disprove their statement...unless
someone bid this high from auction fever, or the collectors' value?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Christopher Zach wrote:
> To what voltage level should I charge my batteries now that I have
> regs? I used to go to 375 or so, but that is 15 volts per battery.
> Which probably caused them to gas.
With my zener lamp regulators, ignore them when setting your
end-of-charge voltage. The regulators bypass some of the excess current,
but the battery will still (eventually) reach the same voltage as long
as the charging current is at least 0.5 amps.
Your batteries are generating gas at 15v, but also recombining it. The
key is that the current is low enough, and the time short enough so no
significant number of amphours flow into them at 15v. For example, your
charger is at 15v at 1amp for 1 hour. The regulator bypasses 0.5a of
this, leaving 0.5v going into the battery. O.5a for 1 hour is 0.5ah of
gas generation. This doesn't produce enough gas to fill the space inside
the cells, so the batteries don't vent.
> Also can I trust my e-meter anymore for state of charge? I used to use
> it as an ah counter; at a 98% CEF (AGMs) a +.2ah at end of charge would
> usually indicate the batteries were full. However now I have regs, does
> that change the final numbers?
Sure, the E-meter still works. However, the CEF will be a little bit
lower. Ideally, it would be the CEF of the slowest battery in the pack
to reach full charge. If you used 98% before, try 96% with regulators.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Everyone,
Just got back this evening from Joliet and wanted to post some pictures and
a video of this past weekend's event so everyone could share in the fun we
had.
We got rained out, the racing was canceled and it was really friggin' cold!
However, none of these things could stop everyone there from having a
blast!!! Nothings gonna rain on our parade -- pretty much the overall
attitude from everyone who attended.
While the track may have closed, the parking lot at the local Pep Boys was
open and was glad to have us hang out for the afternoon (and now seriously
needs a new black top to cover up the yards and yards of rubber we laid...)
The highlight of all this fun was getting to meet everyone from around the
country (and of course watching Joule Injected and White Zombie go at it
back to back in a burnout competition and parking lot race!)
I will follow this post up with a better write-up, once rested, but in the
meantime - enjoy!
http://www.suncoast.net/HVN/
Shawn M. Waggoner
Florida EAA
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I just received a call on my cell phone from Wayland and company. They are
in Omaha, Nebraska. They stopped at a Hooters and are charging the "White
Zombie" in the parking lot. I am not sure if they stopped for the juice or
their famous wings. They probably were getting hungry. John told me that
when they are done charging the Hooter Girls are going to come out and do
some photo ops with the car. John says he is also going to give them some
thrill rides but he failed to mention if that was with the car or not. They
are on their way back to the left coast and home of the quickest EVs on the
planet.
Roderick Wilde
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.392 / Virus Database: 268.5.6/339 - Release Date: 5/14/2006
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Fair enough. Point taken.
Ted
Olympia, WA
N47 02.743 W122 53.772
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lee Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Sunday, May 14, 2006 7:38 PM
Subject: Re: Efficiency of flooded lead acids
"Ted C." wrote:
I just have to add that most of the web site
http://xtronics.com/reference/batterap.htm
was really good information.
I found a lot of this information to be only approximately correct.
There are numerous errors and oversimplifications. I'd suggest treating
it more as opinion than established fact.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Grigg. John wrote:
friction seems to be coming from my new brake drum shoes.
On the back side of the backing plate near the bottom, if you remove a
oval/rectangular rubber plug, is there a wheel with notches in it that
can be used to adjust the position of the brake shoes? You might look
into that.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
While not on this list, the Twike used 3 strings of Nicads for 336
Volts. It would probably be worth finding out how they got them to
play nice with each other on charge and discharge.
The C-cell, Sanyo N-3000CR, is half of the weight of a D-cell, but
has only slightly more internal resistance (3.4 mohm vs. 2.8 mohm),
so its power-per-pound is significantly better.
FWIW, my son's quick RC Nicad charger will charge 2 packs in
parallel. It does this in only 30 minutes, and if the batteries
aren't really empty they get very hot. You basically need to charge
with your hand on them to tell when to stop.
--- Don Cameron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Brad, I am looking forward to you progress with this type of pack -
> it will
> be a first of this size for the list! I hope you will be sharing
> you
> experiences on a web site.
>
> Don
>
>
>
> Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
>
> see the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Brad Baylor
> Sent: May 13, 2006 3:28 PM
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: Re: Deka AGM vs. Sanyo D nicad
>
> Thanks everyone for the feedback! :)
>
> The KR-4400D sags to about a volt at 62 amps and capacity drops in
> half. You
> wouldn't want to pull that amount for more than a few seconds
> because of
> heating. I am also considering the high-rate N-4000DRL, that
> despite the
> higher cost might be a better choice, as capacity decreases much
> less and
> less heating occurs at high rate discharge (calculator says 89 A at
> 1 V, 196
> A at .7). And life is exponentially inversely proportional to heat.
> Both are
> much stiffer than Safts and per weight the fast rate cells are
> about the
> same max power as Orbitals.
>
> Yeah about parallel strings... I have the same concerns about load
> sharing,
> which could limit the total max current and overly stress the
> strong
> strings, but it may not be an issue for this application.
> Single cells in parallel I could see having major load sharing
> issues, but
> much with higher voltage strings before paralleling occurs, with
> fairly
> linear resistors (interconnects and cabling) in series on each
> string, and
> overkill cooling keeping all the cells about the same temperature,
> I would
> think they should share roughly equally. And there's enough cells
> in series
> that high and low cells should roughly balance out. Worst case I
> can tweak
> by using resistors or more diodes in series with the strong
> strings. Or even
> add/remove cells, varying the total number in each string, but that
> might
> cause other issues.. I think this is only a potential issue at high
> rate
> discharge, and the load should tend to balance during the low rate
> periods
> (which is most of the time during discharge). I can't find anything
> to prove
> this, so I guess I'll be the test case. :)
>
> Risk management. Well I don't have a garage, so the car get's
> charged
> outside away from the house. The strings will be individually fused
> and I'll
> have a thermal cutoff (possibly a smoke detector cut off too :),
> but if
> there's a wreck sufficient to short a bunch of cells, I'll try to
> contain
> the damage with a fire extinguisher and run if necessary...
>
> Safts looked pretty interesting, even with the watering hassles,
> until I saw
> several posts that said 250 A is the max for long life. And also
> was pointed
> out by someone familiar with their use in European electrics, that
> 1500
> cycles life was typical at 80% DOD, not the 3000 claimed by Saft.
> Either way
> that's better than Sanyos at 80% DOD, but a moot point because of
> the 250 A
> limit.
>
> There's nothing wrong with slow charging using a series resistor
> dropping a
> higher voltage, forming a quasi-constant current source.
> I've done it for many years with no issues. It's on page 35 of
> Sanyo's nicad
> technical manual. Mike- I think I must have misused the term
> Badboy. I'm not
> fast charging, just Badboy in the sense that there's no
> transformer.
> Apologies for the confustion.
>
> My labor and dollar figures reflect my inexperience with most of
> the aspects
> of lead-acid, modifying the car to handle weight, finding the
> necessary
> components, buying ones that don't fit and trying again, welding
> equipment
> and learning to weld, paying an electrician to install a circuit
> (I'm not
> one and my insurance company would agree), etc.. I'll be over the
> max weight
> on the plate with lead-acid with no one in the car (this is the
> heavier
> Jetta GL model), and I still want decent braking and handling. So
> yeah
> upgrades are necessary.
>
> Deka's own manual has strict max voltage/temp guidelines for
> charging.
> Deviate from those and you'll get less life (even less than the
> already
> crappy life if you do it perfect). I admit, I'm biased against
> lead-acid.
> I've had nothing but bad experience with them over the years, never
> getting
> close to a reasonable amount of cycles. Yeah I've never tried them
> with an
> electric car before, but every time I look at the charts and graphs
> and read
> other's experiences of various lead-acid batteries, the word
> "sucks" is
> constantly running through my mind. :)
>
> Nicads other hand are very familiar to me and I shouldn't need as
> many
> tools, and will require mostly patience dealing with. Now that I
> think about
> it, my original estimate of 2 minutes per cell is probably not
> realistic.
> Maybe 5 minutes per cell for 200 hours cell assembly time?
> Considering my
> inexperience with lead-acid and all the associated stuff, seems the
> way to
> go (for me). Plus I've never worn out a Sanyo under normal use,
> which a
> car's typical loads will be (yeah, I've killed them in RC before,
> but 40C
> discharges and cells too hot to touch and will do that).
>
> How do you find a bad cell? First isolate the string by noting a
> change in
> output over time on the string voltage/current/AH monitor.
> After running a bit to put a load on the cells, pull the string and
> feel
> each cell. The warmest one is likely your bad cell. To confirm, put
> the
> string under load and compare the voltage of the warm one to the
> cool ones.
> I used that method for years on the RC planes with good success.
> The loads a
> car will put on these cells is nothing compared to the abuse a RC
> app
> inflicts, and I really don't expect to see many failures.
>
> It'll take me months before I'm ready for the battery and charger
> part of
> this project, and I'm out of money, so I have a while to think
> about all
> this.
>
> Brad Baylor
>
>
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Watch the final current at end of charge.
It should be close to (+/- 50%) the reg bypass current.
If the current is too low, raise the voltage slightly.
If the current is too high, lower the voltage slightly.
I would aim for about one amp.
If the current is still dropping at end of charge, you need to charge
longer.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Christopher Zach" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Sunday, May 14, 2006 6:43 PM
Subject: Charging thoughts on the regs
> A question for reg type people:
>
> To what voltage level should I charge my batteries now that I have regs?
> I used to go to 375 or so, but that is 15 volts per battery. Which
> probably caused them to gas.
>
> But now I have .5a (well, more like .6a with the resistor in there) regs
> on the batteries. Should I go to 367?
>
> Also can I trust my e-meter anymore for state of charge? I used to use
> it as an ah counter; at a 98% CEF (AGMs) a +.2ah at end of charge would
> usually indicate the batteries were full. However now I have regs, does
> that change the final numbers?
>
> Chris
>
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--- Begin Message ---
http://www.electricmotorsport.com/ I can't find it on the site yet but I
saw a turnkey brushless system of 90 amps capable of maybe 50mph on a small
motorcycle. A 200 amp system is also available. Price is $1000 & $1200.
Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Reedmaker
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
Vegetable Oil Car.
415-821-3519
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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--- Begin Message ---
I just want to know how to get one to my door in texas. That would be wonderful
for my wifes commute and she really likes it. There seems to be nothing else on
two wheeled like that available that can go 55mph, or for that matter three or
four wheeled for a reasonable price.
Death to All Spammers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/765 Seems it is no longer vaporware.
> Lawrence Rhodes
> Bassoon/Contrabassoon
> Reedmaker
> Book 4/5 doubler
> Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
> Vegetable Oil Car.
> 415-821-3519
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
What I'd like to know is where did they get large-capacity NiMH cells
- I thought no-one was currently licensed to make them...or has that
changed?
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--- Begin Message ---
Jeff Shanab wrote:
Sharkey said ...But polycarbonate isn't necessarily much like plexiglass
...
I will second that, I work in plastics
Sorry, I should have been clearer. It is indeed nothing like it from
the point of view of machining it, I was just mentioning it because it's
another potential material for clear battery boxes (or in my case,
motorcycle windscreens).
It costs a fair bit more but the easier working might make it not so
much more expensive for a small project.
-----sharks
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi All,
This just came over another list which I think
is a RAV4 battery pack some of you might be interested in.
Item #4638703304
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Battery-Panasonic-C-3-M-95-Rav4-EV-
Rav4_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ111103QQitemZ4638703304QQrdZ1QQsspagena
meZWDVW
Jerry Dycus
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Sun, 14 May 2006 22:48, Death to All Spammers wrote:
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
"Death to all Spammers" (I cannot find you name anywhere on the
list), to
help out us "newbies", do you mind sharing with us your experience?
What is
it that you mean by the note?
Thanks
Don
The auto industry says there is no demand for EVs, but a used RAV4
sells for $20K over MSRP? Seems to disprove their statement...unless
someone bid this high from auction fever, or the collectors' value?
It tells you about the market for *1* of these things.
When offered for lease, Toyota found about 300 customers a year.
Even if they sold them all at 67k, there is no business case for them at
those volumes.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Remember that GFCI devices only interrupt faults to GROUND if he stuck a
fork neutral to hot he would definitely get a jolt!
-Rick
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Lee Hart
Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 4:22 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: my own outlet
Mike Ellis wrote:
> Of course, when a kid finds the outlet and sticks a fork in it, you
> will go to jail.
You've been watching too much TV :-)
Naturally, the outlet would have a GFCI. Basically, nothing happens if
little Igor sticks a fork in it. He'd have to go home and stick his fork
in any of the dozens of outlets there that do *not* have a GFCI!
Outdoor AC outlets are *everywhere* around here. Every home, store, and
garage has them.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 15 May 2006 at 8:07, Rick Todd wrote:
> if he stuck a
> fork neutral to hot he would definitely get a jolt!
No, he wouldn't. If the hot to neutral circuit were complete, the
overcurrent protective device (fuse or breaker) would open immediately. If
he contacted only the hot side, the GFI would open immediately.
GFIs recognize an imbalance between current on the hot and neutral sides of
the mains, and open if one in excess of the limit (typically 5ma) is
detected.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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or switch to digest mode? See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/
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To send a private message, please use evadm at drmm period net.
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Need I remind you that even a 20A breaker is enough to kill someone. The
let through current on a bolted fault before the actual trip, as you are
saying will trip the breaker, however, it still will let through about 3
cycles of electricity that gets up in the range of 2,000-4,000 amps
depending on the transformer feeding the service. If you would like I can
post the breaker trip curve of a standard 20A. breaker. The only reason I
bring this up is because people always assume that if it is GFCI protected
that everything is great and ok. But, it is just not so.
-Rick
Peterson Electric Panel Mfg. Co.
Department of Engineering
5550 McDermott Dr.
Berkeley, IL 60163
Phone (708) 449-2270
Fax (708) 449-2269
Website www.petersonpanel.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of David Roden
Sent: Monday, May 15, 2006 7:13 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: RE: my own outlet
On 15 May 2006 at 8:07, Rick Todd wrote:
> if he stuck a
> fork neutral to hot he would definitely get a jolt!
No, he wouldn't. If the hot to neutral circuit were complete, the
overcurrent protective device (fuse or breaker) would open immediately. If
he contacted only the hot side, the GFI would open immediately.
GFIs recognize an imbalance between current on the hot and neutral sides of
the mains, and open if one in excess of the limit (typically 5ma) is
detected.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation,
or switch to digest mode? See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Note: mail sent to "evpost" or "etpost" addresses will not reach me.
To send a private message, please use evadm at drmm period net.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi All,
GM, BMW and D/C are going in on this new
transmission, E motors system they will share.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Hybrid_System_2#FWD_car
On the Zap 3 wheel EV, I'd be scared to ride in
it over 40 mph the way it's designed as to turn, you will
have to slow way down. Plus of course, anyone trusting ZAP
to delivery has usually ben very disappointed.
I been recovering from eye surgery and hopefully
put a Freedom EV rolling glider together before more surgery
next month.
Jerry Dycus
----- Original Message Follows -----
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Subject: Re: Why no COMMENTS good-or-bad
Date: Sun, 14 May 2006 16:57:37 -0700
>Huh? IMHO, a car that tops out at 40 mph IS an NEV!!!
>>
>> Joe
>
>By law it is a motorcycle. LR..........
>
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--- Begin Message ---
Hey All
Way to much to report proper yet but I wanted EVeryone know that Team Plasm
is alive and well. In fact we spent WAAAAaayy to much time giving the Omaha
Nebraska Hooter girls rides in WZ last night out in the parking lot. The pics
came out crappy due to my camera being set wrong, Tim not using his flash and
Wayland (the pro pic taker) not having any storage left. The stories will be
told in great detail when we have had more than 2 hours sleep 8^ ).
The list of stories will be long and deep. On a side note to John
Westland... you are going to have to deal with Wayland dude!!! And to top it
off White Zombie has never been faster and the rides had never been free-er.
Although the trip was rained out I have had the funnest trip of my life!!!!
Just had to get at least a few words in here as I had meant to post alot but
then found that time has been a very limiting to our puter time and sleep.
Cya all
Post pics and stories as soon as I'm releast from my plasma prison of fun.
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
Sorry this is short but I do not want to ruin these stories with a tired and
uncreative brain as they deserve much time t create for proper readind and
enjoyment. I just wanted to confirm Rods update that he posted for us (thanks
Rod)
Roderick Wilde <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I just received a call on my cell phone from Wayland and company. They are
in Omaha, Nebraska. They stopped at a Hooters and are charging the "White
Zombie" in the parking lot. I am not sure if they stopped for the juice or
their famous wings. They probably were getting hungry. John told me that
when they are done charging the Hooter Girls are going to come out and do
some photo ops with the car. John says he is also going to give them some
thrill rides but he failed to mention if that was with the car or not. They
are on their way back to the left coast and home of the quickest EVs on the
planet.
Roderick Wilde
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 5/15/06, David Roden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
If he contacted only the hot side, the GFI would open immediately.
Small correction - it's not immediately. It's usually meant to be
less than 30 milliseconds (depending on your national standard). This
is supposed to be a short enough time to prevent the current (in the
worst case) from giving you a heart attack. The odds are worse if you
have a weak heart. And worse still if you leap backwards under a
moving truck from the shock :)
You will probably get a shock though. A child is especially likely to
perceive it as painful. His parents are likely to perceive it as a
near-death experience!
All in all, it's probably going to get you into trouble, especially if
you installed a "guerilla" outlet on the street.
And, all that's if the GFI / RCD is working correctly. They *do*
fail, and you usually find that out in a situation where it would have
been really useful to have it working!
So, please use a safe, waterproof connector as well, or at least put
it in a lockable box.
--- End Message ---
