EV Digest 5526
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: NEDRA Power of DC Coming Up Sunday June 4
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Scirocco (Rabbit) suspension upgrade
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) RE: copyright infringement
by "James McKethen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Lee's regs in action
by "Tom Shay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) RE: OT: EV Copyright Infringer strikes again
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: GM's Wagoner admits killing EV1 was a mistake
by Ricky Suiter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) RE: copyright infringement
by "Andre' Blanchard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Honda to Stop Making Insights
by "Tom Shay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) RE: Honda to Stop Making Insights
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Honda to Stop Making Insights
by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Lee's regs in action
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Honda to Stop Making Insights
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Electric Conversion / Newer Model Cars - Computerized
by "Adrian DeLeon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Announcing the NEDRA Late Night Nationals 2006
by "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) RE: Honda to Stop Making Insights
by Gnat <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Honda to Stop Making Insights
by Electro Automotive <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Honda to Stop Making Insights
by John Norton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Lee's regs in action
by "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Fans in parallel
by "Jonathon Lemus" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) RE: OT: EV Copyright Infringer strikes again
by Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Hi voltage DC-DC problem
by "Chris Brune" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Hi voltage DC-DC problem
by "Chris Brune" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Honda to Stop Making Insights
by Ralph Merwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) RE: Solectria S-10 Anti-Lock Brakes
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Lee's regs in action
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: Honda to Stop Making Insights
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: Hi voltage DC-DC problem
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: Lee's regs in action
by "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) Re: Lee's regs in action
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
30) RE: Windstar EV Conversion
by "John Westlund" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2006 9:15 AM
Subject: Re: NEDRA Power of DC Coming Up Sunday June 4
> HI all,
>
> Anyone be in Saturday night and be up for Dinner ?
>
> Hope to stay at the Microtel Hotel on RT40.
>
> Bob Salem
> Hi Bob;
Yeah, What time, I should make it there by Prius by dinner time?
> PS Dave Erb and will be with me.
> More the merrier!
Seeya there!
Bob
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Ken;
I found that BMW 526 rear springs shock assembly was a almost drop in
retrofit rears for a Rabbit, bore out the Rabbit's lower arm holes and get a
bigger bolt.If they will let you wander around with a tape measure. The
Sciraco is a clone of the Rabbbit, anyhow. I ran 20 batteries in the Rabbit
WITHOUT upgrading the Diseasel front springs, but finally gave in and got
customs fron Coil Spring Specialties in St . Mary's Kansas. All they need to
know is how much you are ADDING to the total Axle weight.Maybe German
springs would fit YOUR German car? I was just lucky that afternoon of
junkyard picking.Hell I had 14 T 145's in the BACK of the Rabbit!15
shouldn'tr be much of an issue?
Springs in springtime
Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken Albright" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2006 4:24 PM
Subject: Scirocco (Rabbit) suspension upgrade
> Is there a fairly simple and cheap way to upgrade the springs in my
Scirocco? Can I go to the junk yard and pull the springs and/or other parts
from some other model VW and bolt them on? I'm carrying 15 - 8v lead acid.
>
> Thanks
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Print, Scan, OCR, Edit. Ask a lawyer friend to write a nastygram to the
perpetrator.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Neon John
Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2006 3:29 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: copyright infringement
On Thu, 25 May 2006 10:18:44 -0500, Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>Acrobat 4 format has a security flaw, it can be cracked instantly with
>any one of dozens of programs.
>Acrobat 5 (I hope I'm getting these numbers right) is essentially
>uncrackable at this time. However, they do not even have a reader for
>some platforms and third party tools are still nonexistant AFIAK
>because I'm assuming they never even released the info on how such a file
is opened.
>
>You will also want to disable the Clipboard function, or they'll just
>Select All to clipboard and steal the text in one move. But not being
>able to copy bits of text is very annoying to legitimate readers.
All this waste of mental energy for a free document.
Help me, Lord, for I am drowning in a sea of stupidity.
John
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN Don't let your schooling interfere with your
education-Mark Twain
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The parts list is nice to have. But, how are these components
connected together? Did I miss a message that told this?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Christopher Zach" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2006 10:36 AM
Subject: Re: Lee's regs in action
Where did you buy the 5 watt zinors ?
Mouser. Here is a list of the parts I bought:
606-PR2 PR2 Chicago Miniature Incandescent Base Flange
2.38V .5A 50 $0.560 $28.00 7 Shipped
43 Shipped
4/24/2006
5/3/2006
27718023
27740929
526-1N5341B 1N5341B NTE replacement Diodes/Rectifiers
6.2V 5W ZENER DIODE 50 $0.760 $38.00 50 Shipped
4/24/2006
27718023
610-CZ5342B CZ5342B Central Semi Diodes - Zener
6.8V 5.0W 50 $0.520 $26.00 50 Shipped
4/24/2006
27718023
660-MF1/2DLT52R10R0F MF1/2DLT52R10R0F KOA Speer 1/2Watt Metal
Film Resistors
10ohms 1% 100PPM 60 $0.090 $5.40 60 Shipped
4/24/2006
27718023
And of course you need potting compound:
1 590-832-TC-450ML
Epoxy Compound 1 1 0 $29.95 $29.95
The smaller lugs are standard Home Depot 12-10 gauge yellow lugs; the
smaller diode fits in them. For the larger one I used heavy-duty 6ga
tinned eyelets, with a 5/16" bolt hole, from Waytek Wire, part# 36472.
That should do it. Just go out and get some parts and build the things.
They're not that complicated :-)
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I think you are missing the point.
The information was put out for free on the internet. This person is taking
this free information, repackaging it and selling it. Sure, this is bad
thing to do. Yes it is copyright infringement, but so what? This
information was put out for free in order for people to read for free. Now
, more people are going to read it. It gets more info out there.
Now, if the information was being sold in the first place, and someone was
take away your customers, that would be a different story. It takes away
business and livelyhood.
Or if a company had private information (corporate secrets), and a person
acquired this private information and sold it, that is a bad thing as it
takes away business and livelyhood.
I have numerous web sites that I have carefully documented how I have built
many things. I have put this information out on the internet for free. If
someone takes the info and starts making a buck off it, sure, I would get my
nose out of joint, or maybe want some of the cash, but really - is it worth
all this effort? I do not think so.
Ask yourself:
Why did you put it out in the first place? Did you want to be a "benevolent
and generous contributor to the masses"? If so, then your purpose is still
met.
Are you just pissed that someone has the balls to sell the info?
Was the stuff that good in the first place?
Would your energy be better spent on other things?
Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
see the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Meta Bus
Sent: May 25, 2006 1:51 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: OT: EV Copyright Infringer strikes again
I am surprised and dismayed by the series of ego-posters who have chosen to
chide Chip over his concern for the abuse of his IPR. It is amazing to read
the self-promotion of these others, who tell Chip he should not be concerned
(even angered) over the *theft* of his work.
Each poster who has taken this holier-than-thou attitude has also taken the
time to carefully inform us of their own IP production, portraying
themselves as benevolent and generous contributors to the masses, who don't
care what happens to their alleged contributions, implying or outright
stating that Chip is being small or petty in even thinking of defending his
IPR.
Gentle people, the theft of IP is a crime. The act of relabeling IP and
foisting it off as one's one work is a morally reprehensible act. The sale
of that stolen IP is a fraud, perpetrated now, with your implicit support.
You can be Darwinian and snicker at the silly fools who bought what they
could have had for free, and you can take the stance that Chip is silly for
insisting that he has IP rights, but then you are not helping him, or anyone
else who produces IP-- you're just supporting the thief.
Chip, I would recommend that you contact the EFF (http://www.eff.org), an
organization that is very familiar with the type of miscreant you have
encountered. They understand that distributing something for free does not
automatically make it freely-distributable, and they have a vast amount of
experience with the low-lifes who repackage and sell others' works as their
own.
Good hunting.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I get Motor Trend, when I read that the first time it gave me chils. I couldn't
believe it, someone high up finally admitted it. If nothing else it provides
perhaps a glimmer of hope
Lawrence Rhodes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Message 1 From Electric vehicles
for sale.
From: "doug korthof" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu May 25, 2006 9:06am(PDT)
Subject: GM's Wagoner admits killing EV1 was a mistake
"Motor Trend, June 2006, p. 94
"Interview With Rick Wagoner
"His worst decision?
"...'Axing the EV1 electric-car program and not putting the right
resources into hybrids. It didn't affect profitability, but it did
affect image.'"
----------------------------------------
Hi,
The following letter in support of plug-in clean cars went to
MotorTrend.
Please consider copying it to your local newspaper, or to gm itself
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
might get there.
In addition, please help talk about the upcoming documentary,
"Who Killed the Electric Car", to be released by Sony on June 28
You can see a preview on http://www.comingsoon.net/films.php?id=12796
and join the Yahoo group promoting sale of plug-in cars at
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/electric_vehicles_for_sale/
Oil dependence vs. energy independence, is a *choice* that must be
allowed the car buyer. Until the auto and oil companies relent, and
allow oil-free cars again, that choice will be denied the caring
Citizen.
If families are given the right to buy an oil-free car, many will
volunteer to install their own solar system, and bypass oil almost
entirely. Naturally, this idea has a big enemy in Chevron, which
currently controls the worldwide patent rights to the NiMH batteries
needed by EVs.
Now that GM has admitted complicity, can the oil companies continue
to escape responsibility and deny guilt?
/Doug
------------------------------------------------------------
Editor, MotorTrend Magazine
RE: Interview with Rick Wagoner
Dear Editor:
The GM CEO who killed the EV1 has admitted that it was his "worst
decision" ("Interview with Rick Wagoner", June, 2006).
EV1 drivers, who were loyal to GM and endured its bullying and
leasing tyranny, remained fanatically devoted to their oil-free EV1
cars.
These EV1 drivers felt betrayed by GM. Toyota seized the
opportunity, selling their excellent oil-free RAV4-EV.
Consequently, all this loyalty was transferred to Toyota, which now
has the reputation not only for its hybrid cars, but for the cachet
of those hundreds of well-heeled RAV4-EV drivers who now sing the
praises of Toyota as the only true "green" car company.
Wagoner handed this powerful corps of Evangelists to Toyota, along
with the plug-in technology it had acquired when it bought Hughes.
Instead of assessing blame, isn't it time General Motors started
reclaiming some of the clean-car image it has handed to Toyota?
An apology to former EV1 drivers for killing their car, a resumption
of plug-in serial hybrid and EV1 production, and the sale on the
open market to willing purchasers of pollution-free EV1 cars would
be a timely way for Wagoner to capitalize on this lost asset, and to
turn scorn into admiration.
Name__
Addr__
City__
Phone__
-----------------------------------------------
"Motor Trend, June 2006, p. 94
"Interview With Rick Wagoner
"His worst decision?
"...'Axing the EV1 electric-car program and not putting the right
resources into hybrids. It didn't affect profitability, but it did
affect image.'"
Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Reedmaker
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
Vegetable Oil Car.
415-821-3519
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Later,
Ricky
02 Insight
92 Saturn SC2 EV 144 Volt
Glendale, AZ USA
---------------------------------
Love cheap thrills? Enjoy PC-to-Phone calls to 30+ countries for just 2ยข/min
with Yahoo! Messenger with Voice.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 03:54 PM 5/25/2006, you wrote:
Print, Scan, OCR, Edit. Ask a lawyer friend to write a nastygram to the
perpetrator.
You can skip the paper copy.
http://www.structurise.com/kleptomania/index.shtml
__________
Andre' B. Clear Lake, Wi.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12860428/
The article said that Honda sold only 666 Insights in 2005. I wonder
why sales were so low? Sales of this car ought to be brisk with
gasoline prices so high and the widespead revulsion of SUVs and
other gas guzzlers. Were sales so low because customers didn't
want Insights or did Honda Motor Company only produce a few
hundred per year?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Tom Shay wrote:
> The article said that Honda sold only 666 Insights in 2005. I wonder
> why sales were so low? Sales of this car ought to be brisk with
> gasoline prices so high and the widespead revulsion of SUVs and
> other gas guzzlers. Were sales so low because customers didn't
> want Insights or did Honda Motor Company only produce a few
> hundred per year?
Perhaps it is due to Honda also offering the same hybrid system in both
Civics and Accords, and the 4-5 seaters are more attractive to buyers
than the 2-seater Insight with its love-it-or-hate-it styling, even if
the Insight does offer better performance.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 25 May 2006 at 14:49, Tom Shay wrote:
> The article said that Honda sold only 666 Insights in 2005. I wonder why
> sales were so low?
Did Honda advertise the car? Did they ship any to dealers?
As fuel prices rose, I expected to see them by the dozens in front of our area
Honda dealership, but I never saw even one. Hmm, I wonder why that might
be.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Tom Shay wrote:
The parts list is nice to have. But, how are these components
connected together? Did I miss a message that told this?
Yes, it's in the archives a few weeks back. It's really simple, think
+ -----|<----lightbulb-----|<----- - battery
Put the 10 ohm resistor in parallel with the lightbulb and that's the
circuit. Encase the two zener diodes inside of the battery lugs with
thermal potting compound and you have your heat sink.
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Car makers seem to keep forgetting that 2 seater cars sell poorly.
Let's see, Honda made and discontinued:
CRX
Del Sol
NSX
Insight (soon)
See a correlation? All 2 seaters. The S2000 is hanging on still, but
I wouldn't be surprised if it is selling slowly, too.
--- "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On 25 May 2006 at 14:49, Tom Shay wrote:
>
> > The article said that Honda sold only 666 Insights in 2005. I
> wonder why
> > sales were so low?
>
> Did Honda advertise the car? Did they ship any to dealers?
>
> As fuel prices rose, I expected to see them by the dozens in front
> of our area
> Honda dealership, but I never saw even one. Hmm, I wonder why that
> might
> be.
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Mon, 22 May 2006 00:42:20 -0700, Ricky Suiter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
who uses tan for ground wires?
My '87 VW Cabriolet (and lots of other VWs) uses BROWN for all ground
wires. +12V wires are either BLACK or RED!
I can understand wanting to leave all the computerized wiring in a
conversion. I removed the engine control wiring from my car with little
trouble, but wish I hadn't clipped some of the wires so short. My fuel
pump relay could easily be replaced with a generic SPST relay for key
switched power - fuse protected and all.
Even the 1987 car requires me to "fake" some signals to keep the oil
pressure light from coming on over 2,000 RPM. Those accurate wiring guides
are a must.
Adrian
.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello All
The NEDRA NW National EVent has a change of venue this year.
Instead of sharing the track at Woodburn Dragstrip with the junior dragsters
as in previous years, this year the EVent has moved to Portland
International Raceway (PIR). The folks at PIR are happy to be hosting NEDRA
as they are familiar with EV drag racers already thanks to John Wayland and
others.
NEDRA racers will be joining the other PIR racers in the "Late Night Drags"
on both August 25th and 26th with the 25th being a bonus "test and tune"
night and with the 26th being the "awards" event. Or... we may decide to
have an awards brunch the following day.
NEDRA racers will share the lanes both nights with local drag racing
enthusiasts and will also be racing other EVs head to head.
Track opens at 6pm, racing until 12am.
PIR website-
www.portlandraceway.com
Directions:
www.portlandraceway.com/location.asp
PIR is just west of the I-5 and is about 1/2 mile south of the Columbia
River.
Admission Prices to the Late Night Drags-
$8/Adults, $5/Children All Racers $22
More fun EVents in conjunction with these two nights of racing are still in
the planning stages.
All the usual suspects are expected to be in attendance.
Will provide updates as more details are nailed down.
Roy LeMeur
NEDRA Northwest Regional Race Director
...
Roy LeMeur Olympia, WA
My EV and RE Project Pages-
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evpage.html
Informative Electric Vehicle Links-
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evlinks.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> On 25 May 2006 at 14:49, Tom Shay wrote:
>
> > The article said that Honda sold only 666 Insights in 2005. I
> wonder why
> > sales were so low?
>
> Did Honda advertise the car? Did they ship any to dealers?
>
> As fuel prices rose, I expected to see them by the dozens in
> front of our area
> Honda dealership, but I never saw even one. Hmm, I wonder why that might
> be.
>
And what happened to the 2-3 year waiting list they kept talking about.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 02:49 PM 5/25/2006, you wrote:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12860428/
The article said that Honda sold only 666 Insights in 2005. I wonder
why sales were so low? Sales of this car ought to be brisk with
gasoline prices so high and the widespead revulsion of SUVs and
other gas guzzlers. Were sales so low because customers didn't
want Insights or did Honda Motor Company only produce a few
hundred per year?
Not sure if it's related, but we've been hearing from a lot of people
with 2000 Insights who are now looking at replacing a $5,000 battery
pack, and they are inquiring about converting to pure electric.
Shari Prange
Electro Automotive POB 1113 Felton CA 95018-1113 Telephone 831-429-1989
http://www.electroauto.com [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Electric Car Conversion Kits * Components * Books * Videos * Since 1979
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Thu, 25 May 2006 19:36, Tom Shay wrote:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12860428/
The article said that Honda sold only 666 Insights in 2005. I wonder
why sales were so low? Sales of this car ought to be brisk with
gasoline prices so high and the widespead revulsion of SUVs and
other gas guzzlers. Were sales so low because customers didn't
want Insights or did Honda Motor Company only produce a few
hundred per year?
You should try living in the same world as everyone else. The supposed
widespread revulsion at SUVs and other gas guzzlers just isn't that
widespread.
Gas went up over $3 with hardly a hitch in the sales of SUV's and other
high powered V8 vehicles. Also in Europe, where gas is double the price
in the US, sales of SUV's are increasing.
I would bet that had gas prices continued up you would have seen a
change in buying, but prices have peaked, levelling and even dropping.
And Tahoes are selling like hotcakes.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Have you measured the total current draw for each 'Zreg'?
Mike
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Mike Phillips wrote:
> > Could you assemble a pack that has mismatched SOC levels and report
> > back how well and how long it takes to get back into balance?
>
> Yaknow, if there's one thing a Prizm owner has it's a stack of blown
out
> batteries. I've got a bunch in various states of charge, discharge, and
> the like.
>
> Hm. Maybe I can set up two strings of 3 broken hawkers with regs and
> disconnect the elec-trak's NiCD batteries for a few weeks. Put them on
> the E20 charger with little regs and see what happens.
>
> Chris
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Tried something similar for a medical device I was working on, no you
can't add like that.
One fan would feed the next one it's rated cfm.
EX: any thing after a 150 cfm fan would have trouble getting more than
150 cfm
Pull a lot more than 150 cfm and you can turn it into a generator and
the power could feed back.
If you have five 5 cfm fans, you still get 5 cfm.
Have with more than one inlet, a bigger fan, or optimize the internal
airflow if you need more cooling
Jon
>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 05/19/06 1:04 PM >>>
So if 5 fans of 30cfm each are in aerodynamic parallel, so they add up
to 150 cfm total? In other words, if 5 fans were connected to the same
box, can they push 150 cfm thru it? I bet not, but wanted to see if
someone has been there and done that.
Mike
**********************************************************
Electronic Mail is not secure, may not be read every day, and should not be
used for urgent or sensitive issues.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
August. Just for the fun of it here is a translation of what you just
said, pretending you are a music collector selling MPEGs and CDs on
the side. I figured you don't mind since it doesn't phase you that
people copy your stuff.
"I also don't know why this bothers anyone. In another life as a
record collector, I have scanned and converted to Mpegs many songs
from the 60s and 70s. I have them all available for free at one of my
web sites, www.kg7bz.net. I have seen others selling CDs on eBay that
contain popular songs that were obviously taken from my web site
(same scratches on the records, etc.) and it's not bothering me at
all. I don't even bother using shrink wrap on my CDs because it
hinders some of the users that want to play from my collections. I
look at is as though someone thought enough of my collection to think
it's worth selling."
Wow August, the music industry would love you.
Your honor. I rest my case.
Hey give that guy a cigar. But not one of those cheap fake cuban
cigars Neon sucks on.
Chip Gribben
From: "August Johnson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: May 25, 2006 3:35:35 PM EDT
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Subject: RE: OT: EV Copyright Infringer strikes again
I also don't know why this bothers anyone. In another life as a Ham
Radio
operator, I have scanned and converted to PDF many manuals for old WWII
Military Boatanchor Radios. I have them all available for free at one
of my
web sites, www.kg7bz.net. I have seen others selling CDs on eBay that
contain manuals that were obviously taken from my web site (same
stains on
the same page, etc.) and it's not bothering me at all. I don't even
bother
turning on any protection in Acrobat, sometimes it hinders some of
the users
that want to print my manual or something. I look at is as though
someone
thought enough of my work to think it's worth selling.
August Johnson
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi,
Unless one is very careful with the application of putting DC/DC converters
in series (tapping the pack) this could be a recipe for problems.
Unless a mechanism is included that forces the DC/DC converters to share the
load equally they will unbalance the pack. One of the converters will have
a tendency to hog most of the current. The difference caused won't be huge
and if battery regulators are used it maybe able to compensate for it. I
don't know, but I'd be careful.
Two things I'd do:
1. Make sure the output voltages are identical.
2. Add some length of wire in series with each output before tying them
together.
Also, putting the input of two converters in series (without tapping the
pack) is also not a good idea. One converter will surely be running in an
over-voltage condition.
Regards,
Chris Brune
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lee Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2006 8:41 AM
Subject: Re: Hi voltage DC-DC problem
> Dave Cover wrote:
> > I need some advice and I know you guys have the answer (or answers).
> > I want to run a high voltage pack, 360 volts. But I haven't seen a
> > dc-dc that is rated for this voltage.
>
> DC/DCs for this voltage exist for trains, buses, and other large
> vehicles. However, they are pretty expensive.
>
> My thought would be to use two DC/DCs built for about half your pack
> voltage, and wire each one across a different half of the pack to
> balance the load. Connect their outputs in parallel with commoning
> diodes. 180vdc is about right for running a switchmode power supply that
> is actually built for 240vac.
>
> I wouldn't try to use one designed for 240vac on the entire pack,
> because they will have used 400vdc capacitors, which don't have enough
> safety margin for a 360vdc pack (which can reach 2.5v/cell x 180 cells =
> 450vdc).
> --
> Ring the bells that still can ring
> Forget the perfect offering
> There is a crack in everything
> That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
> --
> Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi,
See comments inserted below.
From: "Dave Cover" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> One more question about paralleling things. Suppose I had the following
configuration. I want to
> use batteries in addition to the dc-dc to power the car accessories, but I
also need 24 volts for
> some things. I start with this for my 24 volt components;
>
> + 24v DCDC -
>
> | |
> | |
> | |
> | |
> ********* *********
> * 12v * * 12v *
> *+ -*---*+ -*
> * * * *
> ********* *********
> | |
> | \ key switch
> | \
> | |
> |__ 24 volt ______|
> contactor
>
> But if I want to draw 12 volts from the same batteries, can I do this? Is
there a risk of
> unbalancing the 12 volt batteries or will the 24v dc-dc keep them in good
shape?
Yes, this configuration will unbalance the batteries. This is a bad thing.
There are products on the market designed for this application. 24V to 12V
DC/DC converters, or 12V to 24V DC/DC converters, or battery equalizers (a
type of 24V to 12V DC/DC converter).
>
> + 24v DCDC -
>
> | |
> | |
> | |
> | |
> ********* *********
> * 12v * * 12v *
> *+ -*---*+ -*
> * * * *
> ********* *********
> | # #|
> | # # \
> | # # \
> | # #|
> |__ 24 volt _#____#|
> contactor # #
> # #
> 12 volt
> load
>
> Or this, to keep things in balance?
>
> + 24v DCDC -
>
> | |
> | |
> | |
> | |
> ********* *********
> * 12v * * 12v *
> *+ -*-----*+ -*
> * * * *
> ********* *********
> |# % # %|
> |# % # % \
> |# % # % \
> |# % 24 # %|
> |#____%__volt__#____%|
> # % load # %
> # % # %
> # % ######## %
> # %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
> # # %
> ######## %
> # %
>
> + -
> 12 volt
> load
>
>
> Thanks
>
> Dave Cover
>
Not sure what you are trying to show here, but it doesn't look good.
Regards,
Chris Brune
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Electro Automotive writes:
>
> Not sure if it's related, but we've been hearing from a lot of people
> with 2000 Insights who are now looking at replacing a $5,000 battery
> pack, and they are inquiring about converting to pure electric.
Shari,
Have you considered developing an AC kit for the Insight? It seems like
there could be a steady supply of donor vehicles if the owners opt to not
replace the hybrid packs.
Ralph
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Dave,
On a DRY street you will have no problem.
During the last rain of the spring I found myself
gliding through the red light because my brakes
locked for an instant when stomping on the brakes
when the light changed to yellow in front of me
and I tried to stop quickly.
There was nobody in front of me, luckily, so when
I lost only half of my speed while already coming up
to the stop line and the light just turning red,
I decided to run it or else I would have come to a
halt in the middle of the intersection.
Anti-lock would have avoided that.
With a slightly heavier than standard pack and a
total weight of about 4900 lbs, my truck is certainly
not light but the Solectria is neither.
Better fix those brakes than crash the car as soon
as you encounter wet pavement and a need to stop fast.
Regards,
Cor.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of EVDave
[SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Cc:
Subject: RE: Solectria S-10 Anti-Lock Brakes
Sent: 5/25/2006 7:51 AM
Importance: Normal
Yea, ive figured out with the cable disconnected, I don't have
antilock.... My mechanic HATED my car until I gave it to him to inspect
it the first time, then he calls me up about charging it, b/c he took
everyone for rides in it.... (weve been friends for years).... He
marvels at how much thought went into it when it was built.....
Im guessing the brakes were there before the conversion.... So Im
guessing the code thing might work well.... My mechanic just said leave
it disconnected, works fine, and with all that weight from the
batteries, you don't have to worry about the tires locking
up...hehehe....
Thanks for the input....
Db
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mike Phillips wrote:
Have you measured the total current draw for each 'Zreg'?
Let me drag my butt out to the shed and check. This is with one of my
first generation regs; diodes are not potted properly, just stuck into
the lugs (and badly at that). They still sink well enough for open air
use, and the resistor is a .25 watt 10 ohm, not a .5 watt one. Anyway,
on to the measurements.
Volts Amps
13 .001
13.25 .13
13.5 .25
13.75 .29
14 .33 Bulb filament barely on
14.25 .37
14.5 .42 Bulb soft on
14.75 .45 Brighter....
15.0 .500
15.25 .539
15.5 .583
15.75 .630
16.00 .655 Full on
16.25 .707
16.50 .743 Free lug is HOT
17.00 .840 Full bright light
I then shut down, cooled the lugs with good old liquid air upside down,
then set voltage to 17.00 and checked voltage across the bulb. At 17
volts, bulb voltage was 3.1 volts. Which is about what you would get
with two new 1.5 volt cells.
So in a nutshell they start to reg at around 13.5 volts, reach peak at
15.0 volts, and reg more the higher you go in current. Even at 17 volts,
you're not putting out enough voltage to blow out the bulb, but each
zeners are probably dissipating well...
At 15 volts: 15*.5/2=3.75 watts per diode
At 16 volts: 5.24 watts
At 17 volts: 7.1 watts
Better have a really good heat sink if you're driving your batteries to
17 volts. Then again if you are, this is the least of your problems. I
guess that in a perfect world if you are putting in .5 amps at 14.7
volts per battery then you are running 100% on the equalizers. Lee, does
that make sense?
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You beat me to it, John.
The reason that dog didn't hunt is because it was so butt-ugly that no
one but a bleary-eyed card carrying tree hugger could stand to be seen
near one.
There have been other cars that when they came to market, pegged my
hideous styling meter but they eventually sorta grew on me. The Ford
Taurus is an example. The Honda Element is another. The Insight
joins the Pontiac Aztec as a car that just keeps getting uglier and
uglier as time goes by. Everytime I see an Insight on the road, I
want to go over and pull up its pants. Or put splints on its broken
and drooping wings.
I'd walk before I'd drive one of those.
John
On Thu, 25 May 2006 20:13:01 -0400, John Norton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
>On Thu, 25 May 2006 19:36, Tom Shay wrote:
>> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12860428/
>>
>> The article said that Honda sold only 666 Insights in 2005. I wonder
>> why sales were so low? Sales of this car ought to be brisk with
>> gasoline prices so high and the widespead revulsion of SUVs and
>> other gas guzzlers. Were sales so low because customers didn't
>> want Insights or did Honda Motor Company only produce a few
>> hundred per year?
>
>You should try living in the same world as everyone else. The supposed
>widespread revulsion at SUVs and other gas guzzlers just isn't that
>widespread.
>
>Gas went up over $3 with hardly a hitch in the sales of SUV's and other
>high powered V8 vehicles. Also in Europe, where gas is double the price
>in the US, sales of SUV's are increasing.
>
>I would bet that had gas prices continued up you would have seen a
>change in buying, but prices have peaked, levelling and even dropping.
>And Tahoes are selling like hotcakes.
>
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
Don't let your schooling interfere with your education-Mark Twain
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Thu, 25 May 2006 19:23:26 -0700, "Chris Brune"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Hi,
>Unless one is very careful with the application of putting DC/DC converters
>in series (tapping the pack) this could be a recipe for problems.
>
>Unless a mechanism is included that forces the DC/DC converters to share the
>load equally they will unbalance the pack. One of the converters will have
>a tendency to hog most of the current. The difference caused won't be huge
>and if battery regulators are used it maybe able to compensate for it. I
>don't know, but I'd be careful.
Uh, Chris, if you'd read Lee's post you'd have noticed that he did
just that. He recommended that each converter be connected to HALF
the pack. In other words, the DC equivalent of common household
current complete with the neutral.
John
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
Don't let your schooling interfere with your education-Mark Twain
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Great info Chris!
Why again is there a resistor across the bulb?
Mike
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Mike Phillips wrote:
> > Have you measured the total current draw for each 'Zreg'?
>
> Let me drag my butt out to the shed and check. This is with one of my
> first generation regs; diodes are not potted properly, just stuck into
> the lugs (and badly at that). They still sink well enough for open air
> use, and the resistor is a .25 watt 10 ohm, not a .5 watt one. Anyway,
> on to the measurements.
>
> Volts Amps
> 13 .001
> 13.25 .13
> 13.5 .25
> 13.75 .29
> 14 .33 Bulb filament barely on
> 14.25 .37
> 14.5 .42 Bulb soft on
> 14.75 .45 Brighter....
> 15.0 .500
> 15.25 .539
> 15.5 .583
> 15.75 .630
> 16.00 .655 Full on
> 16.25 .707
> 16.50 .743 Free lug is HOT
> 17.00 .840 Full bright light
>
> I then shut down, cooled the lugs with good old liquid air upside down,
> then set voltage to 17.00 and checked voltage across the bulb. At 17
> volts, bulb voltage was 3.1 volts. Which is about what you would get
> with two new 1.5 volt cells.
>
> So in a nutshell they start to reg at around 13.5 volts, reach peak at
> 15.0 volts, and reg more the higher you go in current. Even at 17
volts,
> you're not putting out enough voltage to blow out the bulb, but each
> zeners are probably dissipating well...
>
> At 15 volts: 15*.5/2=3.75 watts per diode
> At 16 volts: 5.24 watts
> At 17 volts: 7.1 watts
>
> Better have a really good heat sink if you're driving your batteries to
> 17 volts. Then again if you are, this is the least of your problems. I
> guess that in a perfect world if you are putting in .5 amps at 14.7
> volts per battery then you are running 100% on the equalizers. Lee,
does
> that make sense?
>
> Chris
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mike Phillips wrote:
Great info Chris!
Why again is there a resistor across the bulb?
If the bulb did burn out, the reg would pretty much be dead. The
resistor allows it to still kinda function.
I should burn a bulb out and re-do the readings sometime. Or build one
sans bulb.
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Dave, you can meet those specs.
But you're going to want about 1,500 pounds of batteries, at
least, to meet your range goals at freeway speeds with AGM
batteries, and not chronically deep discharge them. You need
to be absolutely sure you have enough space to fit the
batteries.
If you want 0-60 mph in 8-9 seconds, for a 5,500 pound
conversion, that's going to require at minimum a Zilla 1k
and an 11" motor. That might get 0-60 mph in 9-10 seconds,
if your battery pack is sufficiently powerful that your
motor and controller become your limiting factors in power
delivered to the vehicle.
More likely, you're probably going to need a twin motor
setup. A Zilla 1k and twin 8" motors would probably do it,
with the right battery pack.
Expect meeting the specs you outlined to entail a
$12,000-15,000 conversion, if you machine your own adaptor
plate and fabricate your own battery boxes/racks. Having
someone else do those things for you will add thousands.
You could go much cheaper if you're willing to sacrifice
performance. But the performance golf between AGMs and
floodeds with a high power controller and large motor are
rather large. Going to a flooded battery setup might be much
cheaper($8k-10k), but good luck getting better than 0-60 mph
in 18 seconds, and that's with a large motor and a Zilla.
You could also go to a Zilla 2k controller, and with the
right batteries and motor(s), get 0-60 mph in 6 seconds even
for such a heavy vehicle. But that will cost you. It would
be a real sleeper though.
--- End Message ---
