EV Digest 5539
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: suspension mods
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: suspension mods
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Fw: Aftermarket GEM Doors
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Electric furniture
by Otmar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Electric furniture
by "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Maniac Mazda Dragtimes.com's June car of the Month...congrats, Rod!
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Soild state relays
by "BFRListmail" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) RE: Comparison
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Comparison
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Charger Efficiency, KWH useage at AC Outlet!
by "Mark E. Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Maniac Mazda Dragtimes.com's June car of the Month...congrats, Rod!
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Electric furniture
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Electric furniture
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Gizmo
by "Tom Gocze" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: suspension mods, batteries
by "Michael Mohlere" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: suspension mods
by "Michael Mohlere" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: suspension mods
by "steve clunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) The Independent of London EV story
by Marc Geller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Charger Efficiency, KWH useage at AC Outlet!
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Voltage for a regen alternator
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: AC vs. DC - hopefully ending (for now...)
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
22) Re: Maniac Mazda Dragtimes.com's June car of the Month...congrats, Rod!
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Comparison
by "Stefan T. Peters" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: the Mark Brueggemann Meter
by Doug Weathers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Vespa Rickshaw.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: Voltage for a regen alternator
by "Evan Tuer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: the Mark Brueggemann Meter
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) RE: the Mark Brueggemann Meter
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) Re: Electric furniture
by "John Bryan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
30) Re: Lee's regs in action
by "Rush" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
31) Re: the Mark Brueggemann Meter
by "Rush" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael Mohlere<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu<mailto:ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2006 8:05 PM
Subject: suspension mods
All -
I am considering for conversion a 1987 Toyota Tercel hatchback - seems
like it would make a good platform. My initial concern is mods that might
be required for the suspension - anyone out there have any advice to offer
on what actually needs to be done and where I can get the parts??
Thanks, Mike
Hello Mike,
Here are four sources I used for my suspensions, axles, inner and outer axle
bearings to withstand the increase weight, heavy duty manual transmissions,
automatic lock auto transmission that can be either shift in manual starting
from 1 rpm or in automatic mode.
The Air Ride systems replaces the shocks and springs all in one unit, that
can level the car, which you can make the suspension as hard or to as soft as
you want.
www.jegs.com<http://www.jegs.com/> 1-800-245-4545 Transmissions, light
weight flywheels,
metallic clutches, etc.
www.p-s-t.com<http://www.p-s-t.com/> 1-800-247-2288 Performance
Suspension Technology
www.markwilliams.com<http://www.markwilliams.com/> 1-800-525-1963 Chassis
& Drivelines Components
www.ridetech.com<http://www.ridetech.com/> 1-812-482.2932 Air Ride
Technologies
Roland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Before you consider the Tercel, really look carefully
for battery space. Did the wagon go on as far as 87?
There's a longer bed for batteries.
Remember, you don't want them all in the front or all
in the back-- your ride will pay for it.
FYI, the Civvy's susp. upgrades were $900 for cost
comparison.
--- Roland Wiench <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Michael Mohlere<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To:
> ev@listproc.sjsu.edu<mailto:ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2006 8:05 PM
> Subject: suspension mods
>
>
> All -
>
> I am considering for conversion a 1987 Toyota
> Tercel hatchback - seems
> like it would make a good platform. My initial
> concern is mods that might
> be required for the suspension - anyone out there
> have any advice to offer
> on what actually needs to be done and where I can
> get the parts??
>
> Thanks, Mike
>
> Hello Mike,
>
> Here are four sources I used for my suspensions,
> axles, inner and outer axle bearings to withstand
> the increase weight, heavy duty manual
> transmissions, automatic lock auto transmission that
> can be either shift in manual starting from 1 rpm or
> in automatic mode.
>
> The Air Ride systems replaces the shocks and
> springs all in one unit, that can level the car,
> which you can make the suspension as hard or to as
> soft as you want.
>
> www.jegs.com<http://www.jegs.com/>
> 1-800-245-4545 Transmissions, light weight
> flywheels,
>
> metallic clutches, etc.
>
> www.p-s-t.com<http://www.p-s-t.com/>
> 1-800-247-2288 Performance Suspension Technology
>
> www.markwilliams.com<http://www.markwilliams.com/>
> 1-800-525-1963 Chassis & Drivelines Components
>
> www.ridetech.com<http://www.ridetech.com/>
> 1-812-482.2932 Air Ride Technologies
>
> Roland
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? My $20 video/DVD
has my '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch too!
Learn more at:
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Can anyone help this guy? You also might want to join this group. Orginal
message below.
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Yahoo! Groups Links
<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEVs/
<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
------------------------------------------------------------------------
----- Original Message -----
From: "J Mac" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2006 12:17 PM
Subject: Aftermarket GEM Doors
Looking for a pair of GEM doors with roll down windows.
Preferably hard doors, not the soft ones.
They're for an '02 2-door.
Suggestions where to find them?
Thanks!
_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE!
http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Does Otmar get any credit for these:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4644859936
I sure hope not!
"up to 6 miles per hour"
Gawd, that's sick! Mine did well over 30 mph. Geared for 55 mph.
But they did make it pretty! :)
--
-Otmar-
914 EV, California Poppy,
http://evcl.com/914/
http://www.CafeElectric.com/
The Zilla factory has moved to Corvallis Oregon.
Now accepting resumes. Please see:
http://www.cafeelectric.com/jobs.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> >Does Otmar get any credit for these:
> >
>
>http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4644859936
>
> I sure hope not!
>
> "up to 6 miles per hour"
>
> Gawd, that's sick! Mine did well over 30 mph. Geared for 55 mph.
>
> But they did make it pretty! :)
>
Their's is more an NEV version of your drag-racer of a loveseat - when
driving a La-z-boy from NASCAR viewing to beer-fetching in the
kitchen, one need not be burning rubber on the shag carpet to impress
the in-laws. Next thing we need is a similar product out of IKEA...
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello to All,
I just checked the Dragtimes.com website.....another electric car has
made it the 'car of the month! Rod Wilde's insanely powerful,
wheel-standing EV now graces the opening page at this popular site.
Congrats to my longtime friend! Now, all those seeking high performance
numbers and results for drag racing machines, will see an electric car
featured as a wickedly quick machine, and perhaps have a shift in
attitude :-)
See Ya.....John Wayland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Dave,
I've picked up a few solid state DC relays on Ebay. Yes, AC are much more
common, but DC are out there. As with anything on Ebay, you may have to
wait a few weeks or months to get a Great price, but they're out there. I
didn't like any of the mechanical relays out there for switching medium
voltage and current, say 100V @ 15 amps. Crydom makes some nice ones.
You say you found 240V? That's probably AC. DC is usually rated 100V or
200V.
Darin Gilbert
BadFishRacing
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Cover" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2006 6:25 PM
Subject: Soild state relays
> Is there a reason not to use solid state relays in an EV? I saw some Solid
State Relays, 240V, 10A
> and didn't know if they would be appropriate. It looks like they are made
by Opto 22, part#
> 240d10. 3-32vdc control. Maybe to control ceramic heaters or something.
>
> Dave Cover
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.8.0/352 - Release Date: 5/30/2006
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Well, since something like 70% of the electricity in the US comes from
coal, it seems like a reasonable suggestion.
> Did you notice the image suggest all the power for the EV Plus comes
> from Coal!
>
> - Brian
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2006 2:31 PM
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: Re: Comparison
>
> One reasonably short answer.
>
> The recent Popular Mechanics article compares a late 1990s Honda EV Plus
> to
> various gas and alternative fuel vehicles (see page 6).
> _http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/earth/2690341.html?page=1&c=y_
> (http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/earth/2690341.html?page=1&c=y)
>
> The paper copy has a great chart on ~ page 79 showing the EV Plus using
> a
> gasoline of 202 MPG
>
> Mike Bachand
> Denver Electric Vehicle Council
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Bio-diesel is the one I noted... "Pure biodiesel, B100, costs about
> $3.50--roughly a dollar more per gallon than petrodiesel." I don't know if
> they've jacked up their bio prices locally... but $3.50 is not out of line
> with $3.30 for gasoline (Eugene OR, on Coburg Road)... and diesel isn't
> much cheaper. Hardly $1 per gallon more, given recent pricing. Locally,
> Bio mixes have been close in price to diesel, and I imagine less given
> the recent price spikes.
Not to mention the up to $1 per gallon tax break the producers of
biodesiel producers get, thought that is probbly already figured into the
prices you're seeing.
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Folk's,
Tom Gocze said that his efficiency wasn't good for an S10 around 1000wh per
mile. I assume that's measured at the AC line which is the appropriate way to
measure kWh useage. My electric jeep I sold was 4000lbs and measured 452 wH
per mile inside the vehicle but reality was 566 WH per mile at the AC line.
This factors in the 110% you put back into the battery (or 120% for NiCads/
NiMh's) and the 90% charger efficiency. So with lead batteries their is a 20%
overall difference from reading say an E-meter VS putting a KWH meter on the AC
line which is the correct way to compare "apples to apples" when looking at
other vehicle efficiencies and other means of fossil fuel propulsion
comparisons.
BTW, My cheese wedge & Bombardier were around 250 WH per mile and the Cushman
is 300 WH per mile measured at the AC outlet. The Electro-Metro with an 8" ADC
was 400.
Best Regards,
Mark
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Get on board. You're invited to try the new Yahoo! Mail Beta.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Wayland" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2006 1:47 AM
Subject: Maniac Mazda Dragtimes.com's June car of the Month...congrats, Rod!
> Hello to All,
>
> I just checked the Dragtimes.com website.....another electric car has
> made it the 'car of the month! Rod Wilde's insanely powerful,
> wheel-standing EV now graces the opening page at this popular site.
> Congrats to my longtime friend! Now, all those seeking high performance
> numbers and results for drag racing machines, will see an electric car
> featured as a wickedly quick machine, and perhaps have a shift in
> attitude :-)
>
> See Ya.....John Wayland
> This an' That, plus 4 bux a gal gas! And we shouldn't be wining, Europe
pays a hellova lot more than we do! Electric's from China? Staytuned, things
are getting interesting. Coulda sold my Rabbit many times over, If I hadn't
busted it up!
Nice to see Rod's post on here. ! We welcome Rod back. Don't be shy,
Rod. Dive in!
Seeya at "DC"
Bob
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello to All,
Otmar wrote:
Does Otmar get any credit for these:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4644859936
I sure hope not!
"up to 6 miles per hour"
Gawd, that's sick! Mine did well over 30 mph. Geared for 55 mph.
I have fond memories of cruising down the streets of Palo Alto with Oat
on the couch of doom. I had a big sombrero on (I don't know why) and I
had just done a major wheelie up to about 20 mph and was up to what I'd
guess was 35 mph as a cop went by us. H (6.7 inch?)e shook his finger at
me, but was having a hard time hiding the grin that was busting out!
Only in California, can you drive a couch past a cop at 35 mph down a
major road (with cars all around) and not be ticketed!
That version of the couch was Optima YT powered, had twin motors (6.7
inch ADC?), and his 'Mouse' controller. Speed and direction were
controlled by a four quadrant joy stick. I was scheduled to Waylandize
it with a rad sound system, but efforts went elsewhere on that trip...I
think I got sidetracked by Bob Schneeveis's wind tunnel in his living
room....or was it his electric horse?
See Ya.......John Wayland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello to All,
Otmar wrote:
Does Otmar get any credit for these:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4644859936
I sure hope not!
"up to 6 miles per hour"
Gawd, that's sick! Mine did well over 30 mph. Geared for 55 mph.
I have fond memories of cruising down the streets of Palo Alto with Oat
on the couch of doom. I had a big sombrero on (I don't know why) and I
had just done a major wheelie up to about 20 mph and was up to what I'd
guess was 35 mph as a cop went by us. He shook his finger at me, but was
having a hard time hiding the grin that was busting out! Only in
California, can you drive a couch past a cop at 35 mph down a major road
(with cars all around) and not be ticketed!
That version of the couch was Optima YT powered, had twin motors (6.7
inch ADC?), and his 'Mouse' controller. Speed and direction were
controlled by a four quadrant joy stick. I was scheduled to Waylandize
it with a rad sound system, but efforts went elsewhere on that trip...I
think I got sidetracked by Bob Schneeveis's wind tunnel in his living
room....or was it his electric horse?
See Ya.......John Wayland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Mike,
Still have one Gizmo on EV Trading Post. I think it is sold, but the check that
is
"in the mail" has yet to show. Contact me off list.
Tom
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I made a "mock up" cardboard battery, representative of dimensions of the 6
or 8 volt US Battery Golf Cart Deep Cycles.... I figure if I try to
preserve the 4 seat arrangement that I can get 6 in the back (hatch part) -
not sure how many I could get in the front/engine area, since I'm not sure
what the dimensions of the 8" DC motor are, not to mention the fact that the
engine is still in the car. On the positive side, with the back seat
removed, I can put as many batteries as I need in there.
Curious what the optimum battery is - seems like w/ the 6 volters you get
the added range, however, the 8 volt batteries seem like a nice balance
between weight and power (watts)....seems like there ought to be some nice
"physics" to apply to the problem - e.g. watts/mile, etc.... so deciding
which batteries to use wouldn't be as much guess work.
Again, my primary concern right now is the suspension and how to mod it and
where to get the parts....any help or ideas greatly appreciated.
I was considering ordering the Basic or Deluxe kit from Electroauto, but if
there is another route that would save some coin/$$, I'm all ears....
Thanks again for your support!!!
Mike Mohlere, Huntsville, AL
From: Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: suspension mods
Date: Wed, 31 May 2006 20:48:30 -0700 (PDT)
Before you consider the Tercel, really look carefully
for battery space. Did the wagon go on as far as 87?
There's a longer bed for batteries.
Remember, you don't want them all in the front or all
in the back-- your ride will pay for it.
FYI, the Civvy's susp. upgrades were $900 for cost
comparison.
--- Roland Wiench <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Michael Mohlere<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To:
> ev@listproc.sjsu.edu<mailto:ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2006 8:05 PM
> Subject: suspension mods
>
>
> All -
>
> I am considering for conversion a 1987 Toyota
> Tercel hatchback - seems
> like it would make a good platform. My initial
> concern is mods that might
> be required for the suspension - anyone out there
> have any advice to offer
> on what actually needs to be done and where I can
> get the parts??
>
> Thanks, Mike
>
> Hello Mike,
>
> Here are four sources I used for my suspensions,
> axles, inner and outer axle bearings to withstand
> the increase weight, heavy duty manual
> transmissions, automatic lock auto transmission that
> can be either shift in manual starting from 1 rpm or
> in automatic mode.
>
> The Air Ride systems replaces the shocks and
> springs all in one unit, that can level the car,
> which you can make the suspension as hard or to as
> soft as you want.
>
> www.jegs.com<http://www.jegs.com/>
> 1-800-245-4545 Transmissions, light weight
> flywheels,
>
> metallic clutches, etc.
>
> www.p-s-t.com<http://www.p-s-t.com/>
> 1-800-247-2288 Performance Suspension Technology
>
> www.markwilliams.com<http://www.markwilliams.com/>
> 1-800-525-1963 Chassis & Drivelines Components
>
> www.ridetech.com<http://www.ridetech.com/>
> 1-812-482.2932 Air Ride Technologies
>
> Roland
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? My $20 video/DVD
has my '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch too!
Learn more at:
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering
wheel? Are you saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Roland -
Many thanks!!! I will keep you guys posted on my progress.
Mike
From: "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Subject: Re: suspension mods
Date: Wed, 31 May 2006 21:37:03 -0600
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael Mohlere<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu<mailto:ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2006 8:05 PM
Subject: suspension mods
All -
I am considering for conversion a 1987 Toyota Tercel hatchback - seems
like it would make a good platform. My initial concern is mods that
might
be required for the suspension - anyone out there have any advice to
offer
on what actually needs to be done and where I can get the parts??
Thanks, Mike
Hello Mike,
Here are four sources I used for my suspensions, axles, inner and outer
axle bearings to withstand the increase weight, heavy duty manual
transmissions, automatic lock auto transmission that can be either shift in
manual starting from 1 rpm or in automatic mode.
The Air Ride systems replaces the shocks and springs all in one unit,
that can level the car, which you can make the suspension as hard or to as
soft as you want.
www.jegs.com<http://www.jegs.com/> 1-800-245-4545 Transmissions,
light weight flywheels,
metallic clutches,
etc.
www.p-s-t.com<http://www.p-s-t.com/> 1-800-247-2288 Performance
Suspension Technology
www.markwilliams.com<http://www.markwilliams.com/> 1-800-525-1963
Chassis & Drivelines Components
www.ridetech.com<http://www.ridetech.com/> 1-812-482.2932 Air Ride
Technologies
Roland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I did a Tercell hatchback and was quite happy with it , got 18 golf cart
batteries in it , I even bought another one with a bad motor when I saw it
sitting in a back yard . I put the back springs for the 300 zx in the back
and left the front as is. I did give up the back seat and cut out the floor
for batteries . . It has a 9" net gain motor in but I should have used a
shorter Implus or 8" as this was very tight. Its for sale , as all my cars
are at www.grassrootsev.com .
steve clunn
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Mohlere" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2006 10:05 PM
Subject: suspension mods
All -
I am considering for conversion a 1987 Toyota Tercel hatchback - seems
like it would make a good platform. My initial concern is mods that might
be required for the suspension - anyone out there have any advice to offer
on what actually needs to be done and where I can get the parts??
Thanks, Mike
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The plot to kill the green machine
These days we see them everywhere, but if it had been up to the
motoring bigwigs, electric cars would have been run off the road long
ago. Andrew Gumbel reports on an eco-conspiracy
Published: 01 June 2006
A decade ago, Chris Paine was just a guy who happened to love his
electric car. He and about 800 other Californians made up the first
wave of pioneer-consumers who leased battery-powered vehicles from
General Motors, Ford, Toyota and a handful of other companies in the
full expectation that this was the future.
http://news.independent.co.uk/environment/article623261.ece
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Tom Gocze said that his efficiency wasn't good for an S10 around 1000wh
> per mile. I assume that's measured at the AC line which is the
> appropriate way to measure kWh useage. My electric jeep I sold was
> 4000lbs and measured 452 wH per mile inside the vehicle but reality was
> 566 WH per mile at the AC line. This factors in the 110% you put back
> into the battery (or 120% for NiCads/ NiMh's) and the 90% charger
> efficiency. So with lead batteries their is a 20% overall difference
> from reading say an E-meter VS putting a KWH meter on the AC line which
> is the correct way to compare "apples to apples" when looking at other
> vehicle efficiencies and other means of fossil fuel propulsion
> comparisons.
Umm that's not correct. You must put back in 110% of the AMP hours, but
in order to do this, over night, you have to push them in at a much higher
voltage than they come out at.
Watthours = Amphours * Volts.
The energy you have to put back into a lead acid pack probably close to
133% of what you get out, then factor in your charger efficiency (more
likely closer to 80% rather than 90%) and you are now talking 165%.
My guess is that if it actually took 452 whrs per mile from the pack, then
it probably needed close to 750 whrs from the outlet.
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart wrote:
>> A typical alternator generates 12vdc at 60a with full field current
>> (about 2 amps) and 1500 rpm (engine idling at about 600 rpm).
Danny Miller wrote:
> That's under 1 hp though. In terms of regen capacity, 1 hp won't brake
> the vehicle substantially and won't provide a substantial current to
> the pack for just a few sec of braking.
It's 1 hp if you leave it at 12v (12v x 60a = 720w ~ 1 hp). For example,
if your regen was a standard alternator charging your 12v accessory
battery.
The surprising thing is that when you increase the rpm and/or field
current to raise the voltage, the current rating remains unchanged. If
you get 12v at 60a at 1200 rpm (1 hp), you get 120v at 60a at 12,000 rpm
(10 hp)!
But as a practical matter, 12,000 rpm is so high that you'll only get
good regen at high speeds. For example, with a 2:1 step-up ratio between
traction motor and alternator, and with the traction motor spinning at
6,000 rpm.
So, it makes sense to either start with a 24v truck alternator, or
rewind the 12v auto alternator for a higher voltage (and lower current).
This is mainly done to get more regen at low rpm. The consequence is a
lower current rating, due to the smaller wire.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Can someone provide me with a brief description of what "the torque
constant" of an electric motor means. See bolded lines below.
Mike Bachand
Denver Electric Vehicle Council
In a message dated 5/28/2006 12:10:57 P.M. Mountain Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>As you know (mostly info for newbies),
>The advantage of the high voltage is wide RPM range.
>The more voltage - the higher RPM before constant
>torque turns into a constant power.
Not quite so tevarish. The point at which constant torque
operation shifts to constant power operation is correctly
determined, in theory, by the maximum power of the
BATTERY pack. The motor rpm at which this occurs is
determined by the drive ratio of the drive train and
the torque constant of the motor.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks John! I also wanted to say a very heart felt thank you to all those
who took time out of their daily lives to go vote at Drag Times. It is nice
to be car of the month but more importantly that we have any electric car in
that position for the furtherance of awareness of the electric potential. In
the not to distant future there will come a time when gasoline will become
very expensive. The electric option will be one of the many transportation
solutions to keep this country mobile.
Roderick Wilde
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Wayland" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2006 10:47 PM
Subject: Maniac Mazda Dragtimes.com's June car of the Month...congrats, Rod!
Hello to All,
I just checked the Dragtimes.com website.....another electric car has made
it the 'car of the month! Rod Wilde's insanely powerful,
wheel-standing EV now graces the opening page at this popular site.
Congrats to my longtime friend! Now, all those seeking high performance
numbers and results for drag racing machines, will see an electric car
featured as a wickedly quick machine, and perhaps have a shift in attitude
:-)
See Ya.....John Wayland
--
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lewis, Brian K wrote:
Did you notice the image suggest all the power for the EV Plus comes
from Coal!
So what exactly is the negative association with coal electricity? I can
take a picture of a coal power plant from my front deck, and the air
quality around here (Chehalis, WA) is terrific. I've always heard that
modern coal plants are terrifically efficient and clean - much more so
then an automobile. Am I wrong? Is there a high amount of "unnoticed"
pollutants from these plants?
After living in a city with lots of gas cars (you know that blueish haze
on still days) and a city with few gas cars and a coal plant right next
to it: I'll take the coal over the gasoline any day.
~ Peanut Gallery ~
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I've been giving this some idle contemplation, and I have a tentative
plan for building one of these meters. The main thing I dislike about
Mark's implementation is the use of a panel meter instead of an
automotive one.
Here's an automotive-quality meter movement that might work for this
meter:
http://www.westach.com/frostalarm/cat/hp13.html
It's part number 2DC10-20, halfway down the page on the left.
The main problem with the gauge is that the needles have too much range
of motion. If the volts are high and amps are low, the needles don't
cross. One solution is to limit the movement to the upper half of the
meter, so the needles never go below the centerline. This wastes half
of the meter face - unless you use it to display amps vs. volts on the
12v system. Use a toggle switch to choose what you're looking at. Or,
use the top of the meter to display motor amps and volts, and the
bottom to display battery amps and volts.
One 2 inch dial and one toggle switch can theoretically provide two
voltmeters, two ammeters, and a fuel gauge.
There's also a 3-inch dual meter, but the needles don't cross.
Comments?
On May 31, 2006, at 12:17 AM, Joe Smalley wrote:
I did measurements on my battery pack and determined where the lines
would
go on a dual needle meter. I used RS232 data out of an emeter. The
battery
pack behaves just like Mark's meter is programmed. It should work. The
emeter data matches Mark's theory.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Calvin King" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Monday, May 29, 2006 9:18 AM
Subject: the Mark Brueggemann Meter
Mike & Paula Willmon wrote:
Has anyone built one of these in genious meters by Mark
Brueggemann? Looks rather interesting to me and may try my hand at
it (after I get my truck on the road).
http://www.qsl.net/k5lxp/ev/evgauge/evgauge.html
Mike did you built Marks' meter? If you did give us a report.
Thanks,
Calvin
--
Doug Weathers
Las Cruces, NM, USA
<http://learn-something.blogsite.org/>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://www.craigslist.org/sfc/mcy/166732661.html Possible conversion
candidate or restoration.
Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Reedmaker
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
Vegetable Oil Car.
415-821-3519
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart wrote:
But if you are using it for regen, it will only need to do this for
brief periods of time. So, you can also double the field current (4 amps
instead of 2 amps); then it develops that same 120vdc at 60a, but at
6,000 rpm. It will overheat in a few minutes, but that may be enough
time.
On 6/1/06, Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
That's under 1 hp though. In terms of regen capacity, 1 hp won't brake
the vehicle substantially and won't provide a substantial current to the
pack for just a few sec of braking.
No, it's 10HP. A useful amount of current, and more retardation than
compression braking would give you.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Doug Weathers wrote:
> I've been giving this some idle contemplation, and I have a tentative
> plan for building one of these meters. The main thing I dislike about
> Mark's implementation is the use of a panel meter instead of an
> automotive one.
It would also be possible to build a digital version, with an X by Y
matrix of LEDs. You need two bar-graph controller ICs, like the LM3914.
One displays battery voltage; the other battery current (voltage across
a shunt). Only one LED lights; the one at the intersection of the row
selected by the voltage, and the column selected by the current. Pick
the color of each LED (red, yellow, green) to correspond to whether it
represents a good, fair, or bad voltage for that particular current.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Phone Westach. All of their meters are custom ordered. I purchased my EV
voltmeter and ammeter from them, so they may be able to build exactly what
you need. When I spoke with them they understood my high voltage and
amperage needs.
Don
Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
see the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Doug Weathers
Sent: June 1, 2006 10:41 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: the Mark Brueggemann Meter
I've been giving this some idle contemplation, and I have a tentative plan
for building one of these meters. The main thing I dislike about Mark's
implementation is the use of a panel meter instead of an automotive one.
Here's an automotive-quality meter movement that might work for this
meter:
http://www.westach.com/frostalarm/cat/hp13.html
It's part number 2DC10-20, halfway down the page on the left.
The main problem with the gauge is that the needles have too much range of
motion. If the volts are high and amps are low, the needles don't cross.
One solution is to limit the movement to the upper half of the meter, so the
needles never go below the centerline. This wastes half of the meter face -
unless you use it to display amps vs. volts on the 12v system. Use a toggle
switch to choose what you're looking at. Or, use the top of the meter to
display motor amps and volts, and the bottom to display battery amps and
volts.
One 2 inch dial and one toggle switch can theoretically provide two
voltmeters, two ammeters, and a fuel gauge.
There's also a 3-inch dual meter, but the needles don't cross.
Comments?
On May 31, 2006, at 12:17 AM, Joe Smalley wrote:
> I did measurements on my battery pack and determined where the lines
> would go on a dual needle meter. I used RS232 data out of an emeter.
> The battery pack behaves just like Mark's meter is programmed. It
> should work. The emeter data matches Mark's theory.
>
> Joe Smalley
> Rural Kitsap County WA
> Fiesta 48 volts
> NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Calvin King" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> Sent: Monday, May 29, 2006 9:18 AM
> Subject: the Mark Brueggemann Meter
>
>
>> Mike & Paula Willmon wrote:
>> Has anyone built one of these in genious meters by Mark
>> Brueggemann? Looks rather interesting to me and may try my hand at
>> it (after I get my truck on the road).
>> http://www.qsl.net/k5lxp/ev/evgauge/evgauge.html
>>
>> Mike did you built Marks' meter? If you did give us a report.
>> Thanks,
>> Calvin
>>
>
>
--
Doug Weathers
Las Cruces, NM, USA
<http://learn-something.blogsite.org/>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> > >Does Otmar get any credit for these:
> > I sure hope not!
> Their's is more an NEV version of your drag-racer of a loveseat - when
> driving a La-z-boy from NASCAR viewing to beer-fetching in the
> kitchen, one need not be burning rubber on the shag carpet to impress
> the in-laws. Next thing we need is a similar product out of IKEA...
The thing is that Otmar's loveseat can also go 6 mph. You can creep
around through crowds at a walking speed, but you can also open it
up, do a nice wheelie, and have some fun! You can even rotate in place
quickly enough to shed any extra or unwelcome guests right out of their seats.
John
PS.
I keep wondering who on this list is going to get rich from extreme
wheelchairs. The baby boomers are starting to shop for wheelchairs
and I predict a Huge market for high performance furniture and accessories
could be right around the corner.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Chris,
You added some film resistors on to the balancers. What was your reason for
doing so?
Thanks
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
Chris wrote -
>> Where did you buy the 5 watt zinors ?
>>
>
> Mouser. Here is a list of the parts I bought:
> 660-MF1/2DLT52R10R0F MF1/2DLT52R10R0F KOA Speer 1/2Watt Metal
> Film Resistors
> 10ohms 1% 100PPM 60 $0.090 $5.40 60 Shipped
> 4/24/2006
> 27718023
>
> Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The 2DC10's are $102.20 in the catalogue.... pretty pricy.... If I remember
correctly the MJF meter is only about $20.
Besides, as Doug points out the range of motion is much smaller than the meter
Mark originally used.
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
----- Original Message -----
From: "Doug Weathers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2006 10:40 AM
Subject: Re: the Mark Brueggemann Meter
> I've been giving this some idle contemplation, and I have a tentative
> plan for building one of these meters. The main thing I dislike about
> Mark's implementation is the use of a panel meter instead of an
> automotive one.
>
> Here's an automotive-quality meter movement that might work for this
> meter:
>
> http://www.westach.com/frostalarm/cat/hp13.html
>
> It's part number 2DC10-20, halfway down the page on the left.
>
> The main problem with the gauge is that the needles have too much range
> of motion. If the volts are high and amps are low, the needles don't
> cross. One solution is to limit the movement to the upper half of the
> meter, so the needles never go below the centerline. This wastes half
> of the meter face - unless you use it to display amps vs. volts on the
> 12v system. Use a toggle switch to choose what you're looking at. Or,
> use the top of the meter to display motor amps and volts, and the
> bottom to display battery amps and volts.
>
> One 2 inch dial and one toggle switch can theoretically provide two
> voltmeters, two ammeters, and a fuel gauge.
>
> There's also a 3-inch dual meter, but the needles don't cross.
>
> Comments?
>
>
>
>
> On May 31, 2006, at 12:17 AM, Joe Smalley wrote:
>
>> I did measurements on my battery pack and determined where the lines
>> would
>> go on a dual needle meter. I used RS232 data out of an emeter. The
>> battery
>> pack behaves just like Mark's meter is programmed. It should work. The
>> emeter data matches Mark's theory.
>>
>> Joe Smalley
>> Rural Kitsap County WA
>> Fiesta 48 volts
>> NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
>> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Calvin King" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
>> Sent: Monday, May 29, 2006 9:18 AM
>> Subject: the Mark Brueggemann Meter
>>
>>
>>> Mike & Paula Willmon wrote:
>>> Has anyone built one of these in genious meters by Mark
>>> Brueggemann? Looks rather interesting to me and may try my hand at
>>> it (after I get my truck on the road).
>>> http://www.qsl.net/k5lxp/ev/evgauge/evgauge.html
>>>
>>> Mike did you built Marks' meter? If you did give us a report.
>>> Thanks,
>>> Calvin
>>>
>>
>>
> --
> Doug Weathers
> Las Cruces, NM, USA
> <http://learn-something.blogsite.org/>
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
