EV Digest 5541
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: the Mark Brueggemann Meter
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Fungus Amongus in Battery H2o Comments
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) unsubscribe
by jeanedd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Corbin Gentry electric bike
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: AC vs. DC - hopefully ending (for now...)
by "Andre' Blanchard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: the Mark Brueggemann Meter
by Seppo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Looking to Hire Skilled EV Help in the Los Angeles Area - (West San
Fernando Valley)
by "Dr. Andy Mars" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Fungus Amongus in Battery H2o Comments
by Lock Hughes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Fungus Amongus in Battery H2o
by "Evan Tuer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: AC vs. DC - hopefully ending (for now...)
by "Dave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Comparison
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
12) Re: Gadget's Triumph
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Range/Capacity Check
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: the Mark Brueggemann Meter
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Fungus Amongus in Battery H2o
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: How Hot Does a Terminal Get?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: the Mark Brueggemann Meter
by "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) RE: LED Matrix (was) the Mark Brueggemann Meter
by "Tim Humphrey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: the Mark Brueggemann Meter
by MIKE & PAULA WILLMON <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: LED Matrix (was) the Mark Brueggemann Meter
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Fungus Amongus in Battery H2o
by MIKE & PAULA WILLMON <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Mk3 Regs
by Mark Farver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Fungus Amongus in Battery H2o
by Mark Farver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Range/Capacity Check
by MIKE & PAULA WILLMON <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Fungus Amongus in Battery H2o Comments
by "Tom Shay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: Corbin Gentry electric bike
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart wrote:
>> It would also be possible to build a digital version, with an X by Y
>> matrix of LEDs.
Mike & Paula Willmon wrote:
> You could take that a step further and logic OR together all the
> combinations that make Green, all that make Yellow and all that make Red.
> Then you wouldn't need so many LED's and you'd get an indication of where
> you are in between colors by how long one stayed on between cycles of high
> demand and no demand.
The beauty of Mark Brueggemann's meter is its synergy; it is very
simple, yet provides a lot of information in a very clear format. A key
to this is its graphical "calculator" -- the scale must be drawn to
correctly relate voltage and current for your particular battery pack.
Making this scale requires a lot of homework! Basically, you need to
know the "correct" voltage for your pack at every combination of state
of charge (0%-100%) and current (0-500amps or whatever).
An LED version is far more complex (at least 10 times the parts), but
they are cheap parts. It also has the advantage that you can make the
display an array of sockets, so appropriate-color LEDs can be plugged in
to produce the good/fair/bad graph. It is mechanically programmable.
You could also built one with a microcomputer. Now it is 100 times more
complex than Mark's version. You still need all the same data, on your
pack's voltage vs. current relationship at various states of charge.
Then you'll have to write a program to capture all this data. But it
uses fashionable technology :-)
Once you have thoroughly documented the precise voltage-current-SOC
relationship, and reduced it to mathematical equations, then you could
use a display consisting of just 3 LEDs (good/fair/bad). But now you
can't see the voltage or current -- you'll need separate meters for
them.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark E. Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Friday, June 02, 2006 8:06 AM
Subject: Fungus Amongus in Battery H2o
> Hi,
>
> I've been collecting rain water for my batteries (EV, Wind-UPS, golf
cart) in a 30gal cistern tank and it's full of bacteria. Adding a quart
Clorox bleach monthly removes the bacteria but it may be harmful for the
US145 batteries in my Cushman. Is there a chemist who might know what's
safe to add to a cistern to eliminate fungus amongus but not be harmful to
batteries? How did people drink this stuff who live in remote villages
anyway?
>
> Thanks,
> Mark
>
> Hi Mark;
GEES! a foolish way to save money?! Just break down and go to Wal*Mart
and BUY some jugs of distilled water at 58 sence a gal!!Or Target, if ya
don't like Wal* Mart. I have seen people pour crappy looking rain or other
"Pure" water into batteries. With the cost of batteries it is foolish
economy to poor water with God knows what is in it, into those expensive
cells. They don't ask for much, clean water shouldn't be skimmped on, they
cant "piss" out impurities ,as we can!
My too cups worth
Bob
> ---------------------------------
> New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC and save
big.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Many thanks for all the info.
Please unsubscribe me
All the best
Ed.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
> Corbin Gentry electric bike at summit, Mt. Washington 1974
> I got this picture of this man at the summit of Mt. Washington on an
> electric vehicle. Has anyone owned a Corbin Gentry? Seems Corbin was
> into more electric vehicles than the VW conversions and the Sparrow.
> Nice bit of EV history.
Corbin (the dad, not the sons) was a pioneer in EVs. Corbin-Gentry
produced electric bikes, motorcycles, and VW beetle conversion kits in
the 1970's.
History repeats itself. The 1970's EV "boom" started with the Arab Oil
Embargo around 1974, reached its peak around 1980, and then collapsed in
the early 80's. During the peak, you had all the same types of EVs, the
same exaggerated advertising hype, the same naysaying pundits, and same
well-poisoning from the auto and oil companies that we jsut went through
in the most recent cycle.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 03:40 AM 6/2/2006, you wrote:
On Jun 2, 2006, at 12:07 AM, Ryan Bohm wrote:
I bet there are a few non-Russkies that don't know what "tevarish" means :)
It would have helped if a correct spelling of the word had been used
(tovarish or tovarishch). Took me a few moments to decide what the
original poster meant.
--
Doug Weathers
Las Cruces, NM, USA
<http://learn-something.blogsite.org/>
That is what I like about Google's "Did you mean:" line. The thing seems
to know what I want even when I don't.
__________
Andre' B. Clear Lake, Wi.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
That was a good one! When you depress the pedal, the successively
lighting LEDs draws a curve with increasing current.
The shape of the curve probably gives a very nice indication of the
battery pack's condition. If the pack is infinitely stiff, the LEDs
form a horizontal line; no matter what the current, the voltage is
the same. The 'softer' the pack gets, or the more internal resistance
there is, the more the curve will sag at higher current.
What an ingenious device! Who builds the first one? Let us know how
it worked.
Seppo
Lee Hart kirjoitti 1.6.2006 kello 22.40:
Doug Weathers wrote:
I've been giving this some idle contemplation, and I have a tentative
plan for building one of these meters. The main thing I dislike
about
Mark's implementation is the use of a panel meter instead of an
automotive one.
It would also be possible to build a digital version, with an X by Y
matrix of LEDs. You need two bar-graph controller ICs, like the
LM3914.
One displays battery voltage; the other battery current (voltage
across
a shunt). Only one LED lights; the one at the intersection of the row
selected by the voltage, and the column selected by the current. Pick
the color of each LED (red, yellow, green) to correspond to whether it
represents a good, fair, or bad voltage for that particular current.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377,
leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Does anyone on this list have the skill and knowledge, and time, to help get
a conversion properly running in the West San Fernando Valley of Los
Angeles, (in Reseda, a couple of miles north of the 101 and a few miles west
of the 405)?
I really need to hire someone to help me, as I can't get these things done
on my own.
Even if you don't live in the area, but if you know someone who does, please
pass on my contact info.
I need someone to:
- help get the Manzanita Micro PFC 20 adjusted just right - it works, but I
can't get it properly fine-tuned
- help get the BatMan battery manager working
- help get reg's and install them on the batteries
- help figure out why the auxiliary battery keeps going dead
- help with a good thorough check of everything else, to see if and what
else needs work
I really hope that someone on this list can help.
Looking forward to your e-plies.
Much obliged.
Until next INTERNEcTion -
Take care (and spread it around) -
Peace,
Andy
818/344-7838
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Andy Mars, Ph.D. - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Youth Services from Mars
Educational Consulting, Counseling, and Tutoring Services
Students Taking Action & Responsibility Today
Hands-On Community Service Activities for Children
Camp Exploration
Winter, Spring, & Summer Programs
www.KidsMakeADifference.org
"How wonderful it is that nobody need wait a single moment before starting
to improve the world." - Anne Frank
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I am reminded of a water tower at a cottage that my parents used to
rent in the summers when I was young...
One summer the tower had a lightning strike.
The next day I climbed the tower with my Dad to check things out...
The surface of the water in the tower was coated with dead tree frogs
and bugs. I wonder what the jolt did to the bacteria and flora that
would have also been living in the water?
I guess the point is only, that a jolt of discharge from a battery
bank, or? might serve the purpose to sterilize things?
Tks
Lock
Toronto
--- Bob Rice <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mark E. Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> Sent: Friday, June 02, 2006 8:06 AM
> Subject: Fungus Amongus in Battery H2o
>
> > Hi,
> > I've been collecting rain water for my batteries (EV, Wind-UPS,
> golf
> cart) in a 30gal cistern tank and it's full of bacteria. Adding a
> quart
> Clorox bleach monthly removes the bacteria but it may be harmful for
> the
> US145 batteries in my Cushman. Is there a chemist who might know
> what's
> safe to add to a cistern to eliminate fungus amongus but not be
> harmful to
> batteries? How did people drink this stuff who live in remote
> villages
> anyway?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Mark
> >
> > Hi Mark;
>
> GEES! a foolish way to save money?! Just break down and go to
> Wal*Mart
> and BUY some jugs of distilled water at 58 sence a gal!!Or Target, if
> ya
> don't like Wal* Mart. I have seen people pour crappy looking rain or
> other
> "Pure" water into batteries. With the cost of batteries it is foolish
> economy to poor water with God knows what is in it, into those
> expensive
> cells. They don't ask for much, clean water shouldn't be skimmped on,
> they
> cant "piss" out impurities ,as we can!
>
> My too cups worth
>
> Bob
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 6/2/06, Mark E. Hanson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hi,
I've been collecting rain water for my batteries (EV, Wind-UPS, golf cart) in
a 30gal
cistern tank and it's full of bacteria. Adding a quart Clorox bleach monthly
removes the
bacteria but it may be harmful for the US145 batteries in my Cushman. Is there
a
chemist who might know what's safe to add to a cistern to eliminate fungus
amongus but
not be harmful to batteries? How did people drink this stuff who live in
remote villages
anyway?
First clean out and disinfect your tank! And clean the roof while you're at it.
To keep the tank from coming to life again, you need to keep any
organic material from getting in there. A simple sand/gravel filter
on the intake will work fine. The tank should be closed so that
insects can't get in there.
Now you should have water that is OK for drinking.. whether it's
suitable for batteries or not, I wouldn't like to comment, but my EV
has Nicad batteries which are much more particular about what they
drink ;)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Comrade?
Dave
USAF (RET)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Doug Weathers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Friday, June 02, 2006 1:40 AM
Subject: Re: AC vs. DC - hopefully ending (for now...)
On Jun 2, 2006, at 12:07 AM, Ryan Bohm wrote:
I bet there are a few non-Russkies that don't know what "tevarish"
means :)
It would have helped if a correct spelling of the word had been used
(tovarish or tovarishch). Took me a few moments to decide what the
original poster meant.
Come to think of it, I can't think of a good English equivalent...pal,
friend, bud, ...? :)
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comrade>
-Ryan
--
- EV Source <http://www.evsource.com> -
Summer Special - Free shipping on all orders over $500!
Includes Zillas, WarP and Impulse Motors, and PFC Chargers
E-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Toll-free: 1-877-215-6781
--
Doug Weathers
Las Cruces, NM, USA
<http://learn-something.blogsite.org/>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Stefan,
Two quick comments.
First the Folks at Austin Energy make an excellent point in their case for
PHEVs....it is a lot easier to control the pollution from a single coal fired
power plant at the smoke stack than it is to control the pollution of a
million ICE vehicles at the tail pipe.
Second, look at the pollution maps of Eastern US. What you will see is a lot
of red areas near urban areas that have coal power plants that have for
years burned "dirty" Eastern coal. What happens is that the invisible toxins in
the air eventually fall back to earth from things like rain and the soil
becomes polluted.
The advantage that you and I have living in the West is cleaner burning
coal, newer plants, and less urban density.
In the end the electric vehicle wins because of efficiency (as the Pop Mech
article demonstrates) and reduced heat generated to propel us about town.
Mike Bachand
Denver Electric Vehicle Council
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mr. Gadget, since you are doing a 2nd Triumph, does this mean you are
planning to sell Triumph kits through Left Coast Conversions? What
other cars have you settled on?
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 31 May 2006 at 15:00, MIKE & PAULA WILLMON wrote:
> But if I want to prove that just doing a
> conversion will pay for itself in a reasonable time like 5 years, I'm affraid
> I
> failed on this attempt.
Well, the way I see it is, there are things that are just intrinsically
worth doing. IMO, there are even things that are intrinsically worth
having, if that makes any kind of sense. I don't have to respond to some
grim-faced army of institutional investors, thank goodness, nor do I need to
impress anyone with my financial acumen. Not everything I do has to pay for
itself. ;-)
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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--- Begin Message ---
Doug Weathers wrote:
> Very clever! Could I trouble you (or someone) for a simple circuit
> diagram that shows how to light an LED only if two outputs are on?
The circuit is very simple. The LEDs are driven as a row-column matrix.
Let's say that you have 10 lines of 10 LEDs each (100 total). Connect
the anodes of each horizontal line of 10 LEDs together; name these 10
wires ROW0-ROW9. Connect the cathodes of each vertical column of 10 LEDs
together; name these 10 wires COL0-COL9.
Now, if you connect any row wire to +5v, and any column wire to ground
(thru a resistor to limit the current), then exactly one LED lights; the
one at the intersection of the selected row and column.
The LM3914 grounds its outputs to turn on an LED. So use one LM3914 to
directly drive the 10 columns COL0-COL9. The LM3914 includes current
limiting. For your scheme, the horizontal axis was current, so this
LM3914 measures the voltage across the shunt.
A second LM3914 is wired as an expanded-scale voltmeter (see data
sheet), and drives the 10 row wires ROW0-ROW9. But because the row
driver has to *source* current, you need ten PNP driver transistors
(2N4403 or equivalent); one for each row. The emitters all go to +5v.
The bases go to the LM3914 outputs. The base-emitter junction of these
bipolar transistors looks just like a diode, so the LM3914 can drive it
just like an LED. The collectors of these transistors go to the
ROW0-ROW9 lines of your LED matrix. Tada! You have it! Basically, two
LM3914s and ten PNP transistors.
You described a number of display variations. These can be produced by
trivial modifications of the basic circuit.
1. Single dot display: Configure the LM3914's for a single-dot display,
and only one LED will light at a time in the matrix.
2. Separate LEDs for the voltage and current columns: Add 20 more LEDs
(10 for volts, 10 for amps). Wire them in series with the respective
outputs of the LM3914s. Now you'll have 3 LEDs lit at any time (one
voltage, one current, and one in the matrix).
3. To dimly light a vertical row, with the selected LED brightly lit:
Add a resistor across the emitter-collector leads of each transistor.
It provides a small background current to all LEDs in the selected
vertical column.
4. To dimly light a horizontal row, with the selected LED brightly lit:
Add a resistor from each output to ground of the LM3914 that is
measuring current. It likewise provides a small background current
to all LEDs in the selected horizontal row.
Note: Light levels in a car vary from total darkness (night) to direct
sunlight in the day. So, I wouldn't try having two levels of brightness
(3 and 4). Instead, I'd use the LM3914's LED current adjustment with a
phototransistor or other light sensor to automatically adjust up/down to
compensate for ambient light level.
> More musings on this idea follow, dealing with variations in the design
> of the display. Here's the basic version:
Good! But you have the "slant" wrong. As the load current rises, the
voltage falls. I corrected your illustration, expanded it to 10x10, and
used a 12v "reference" voltage (which would be scaled for your pack
voltage).
______________________________
volts | |
13.2 | g g g g g g g g g g |
12.9 | y g g g g g g g g g |
12.6 | y y g g g g g g g g |
12.3 | y y y g g g g g g g |
12.0 | r y y y g (G) g g g g |
11.7 | r r y y y g g g g g |
11.4 | r r r y y y g g g g |
11.1 | r r r r y y y g g g |
10.8 | r r r r r y y y g g |
10.5 | r r r r r r y y y g |
|______________________________|
1 1 2 2 3 3 4 4
amps 5 0 5 0 5 0 5 0 5
0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
The (G) indicates that the green LED is the only one lit, which means
the pack is "good" if it can deliver 12v at 250 amps (i.e. it is at a
high state of charge). But the higher the current, the more the voltage
sags. If a 250 amp load makes it sag to 11v, it lights a yellow LED; and
if it sags to 10.5v, it lights a red LED (too deeply discharged to
supply this current).
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
"Mark E. Hanson" wrote:
> I've been collecting rain water for my batteries (EV, Wind-UPS, golf
> cart) in a 30gal cistern tank and it's full of bacteria. Adding a
> quart Clorox bleach monthly removes the bacteria but it may be harmful
> for the US145 batteries in my Cushman. Is there a chemist who might
> know what's safe to add to a cistern to eliminate fungus amongus but
> not be harmful to batteries? How did people drink this stuff who live
> in remote villages anyway?
Strangely enough, the fungus isn't as bad for the batteries as the
bleach! I think you'll have to distill the water by one means or another
to make it fit for batteries.
My concern is that if the fungus can live in that water, there is
something else in it for them to feed upon.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Chuck Hursch wrote:
> I will be re-making on Saturday some of the 2/0 cables for my
> EV's pack. I have one post that has turned a 250-degF Celsi-Dot
> black, and one that has turned a 200-degF dot.
How much current are you drawing? 2/0 should handle a *lot* of current!
For it to reach 200-250 deg.F something is seriously wrong.
> Yesterday I took a stab at trying to figure out where the heat is
> coming from... A few months ago, I had taken a shot at 15A with
> the car's heater, but only pulled zeros to three places to the
> right of the decimal point (millivolts) when measuring between
> the post and the cable lug.
A 1 mv drop at 15amps is 0.00066 ohms, which is good. At 200 amps, that
only produces 2.6 watts.
What do you get if you measure from battery post to battery post? This
will include *all* the connection resistances; post-to-terminal,
terminal-to-wire, the wire itself, wire-to-terminal, and terminal to
post at the other end.
> Anyways, 75A and 000s on the voltmeter display made me think of
> Bill Dube' posting where he described the use of a Wheatstone
> bridge to figure out the resistance (I have a vague recollection
> of this posting).
A Wheatstone bridge is a circuit for *comparing* two voltages -- some
unknown against a reference.
What you need here is a more sensitive voltmeter. Even many inexpensive
ones have a 200mv or 400mv scale, which resolves to 0.1 millivolt. Use
it to measure the voltage drops with as high a load current as you can
conveniently provide.
Another useful circuit is a 4-wire micro-ohmmeter. Basically, it's a
power source and a resistor to provide a known current, and a sensitive
voltmeter that measures the voltage drop caused by that current. The
4-wire part comes because you use it with special alligator clips that
have the metal rivet removed and replaced with a nonconducting pin, and
insulating washers so the two halves of the clip don't electrically
connect to each other. The power source goes to one half of each clip,
and the measuring meter to the other half of each clip. The current in
the measuring halves of the clips are now zero, so they don't produce
any voltage drop. Thus, the 4-wire technique eliminates the resistance
of the connecting leads as a source of error.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I like!
Mike
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Doug Weathers wrote:
> > Very clever! Could I trouble you (or someone) for a simple circuit
> > diagram that shows how to light an LED only if two outputs are on?
>
> The circuit is very simple. The LEDs are driven as a row-column matrix.
> Let's say that you have 10 lines of 10 LEDs each (100 total). Connect
> the anodes of each horizontal line of 10 LEDs together; name these 10
> wires ROW0-ROW9. Connect the cathodes of each vertical column of 10 LEDs
> together; name these 10 wires COL0-COL9.
>
> Now, if you connect any row wire to +5v, and any column wire to ground
> (thru a resistor to limit the current), then exactly one LED lights; the
> one at the intersection of the selected row and column.
>
> The LM3914 grounds its outputs to turn on an LED. So use one LM3914 to
> directly drive the 10 columns COL0-COL9. The LM3914 includes current
> limiting. For your scheme, the horizontal axis was current, so this
> LM3914 measures the voltage across the shunt.
>
> A second LM3914 is wired as an expanded-scale voltmeter (see data
> sheet), and drives the 10 row wires ROW0-ROW9. But because the row
> driver has to *source* current, you need ten PNP driver transistors
> (2N4403 or equivalent); one for each row. The emitters all go to +5v.
> The bases go to the LM3914 outputs. The base-emitter junction of these
> bipolar transistors looks just like a diode, so the LM3914 can drive it
> just like an LED. The collectors of these transistors go to the
> ROW0-ROW9 lines of your LED matrix. Tada! You have it! Basically, two
> LM3914s and ten PNP transistors.
>
> You described a number of display variations. These can be produced by
> trivial modifications of the basic circuit.
>
> 1. Single dot display: Configure the LM3914's for a single-dot display,
> and only one LED will light at a time in the matrix.
>
> 2. Separate LEDs for the voltage and current columns: Add 20 more LEDs
> (10 for volts, 10 for amps). Wire them in series with the respective
> outputs of the LM3914s. Now you'll have 3 LEDs lit at any time (one
> voltage, one current, and one in the matrix).
>
> 3. To dimly light a vertical row, with the selected LED brightly lit:
> Add a resistor across the emitter-collector leads of each transistor.
> It provides a small background current to all LEDs in the selected
> vertical column.
>
> 4. To dimly light a horizontal row, with the selected LED brightly lit:
> Add a resistor from each output to ground of the LM3914 that is
> measuring current. It likewise provides a small background current
> to all LEDs in the selected horizontal row.
>
> Note: Light levels in a car vary from total darkness (night) to direct
> sunlight in the day. So, I wouldn't try having two levels of brightness
> (3 and 4). Instead, I'd use the LM3914's LED current adjustment with a
> phototransistor or other light sensor to automatically adjust up/down to
> compensate for ambient light level.
>
> > More musings on this idea follow, dealing with variations in the
design
> > of the display. Here's the basic version:
>
> Good! But you have the "slant" wrong. As the load current rises, the
> voltage falls. I corrected your illustration, expanded it to 10x10, and
> used a 12v "reference" voltage (which would be scaled for your pack
> voltage).
> ______________________________
> volts | |
> 13.2 | g g g g g g g g g g |
> 12.9 | y g g g g g g g g g |
> 12.6 | y y g g g g g g g g |
> 12.3 | y y y g g g g g g g |
> 12.0 | r y y y g (G) g g g g |
> 11.7 | r r y y y g g g g g |
> 11.4 | r r r y y y g g g g |
> 11.1 | r r r r y y y g g g |
> 10.8 | r r r r r y y y g g |
> 10.5 | r r r r r r y y y g |
> |______________________________|
> 1 1 2 2 3 3 4 4
> amps 5 0 5 0 5 0 5 0 5
> 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
>
> The (G) indicates that the green LED is the only one lit, which means
> the pack is "good" if it can deliver 12v at 250 amps (i.e. it is at a
> high state of charge). But the higher the current, the more the voltage
> sags. If a 250 amp load makes it sag to 11v, it lights a yellow LED; and
> if it sags to 10.5v, it lights a red LED (too deeply discharged to
> supply this current).
> --
> Ring the bells that still can ring
> Forget the perfect offering
> There is a crack in everything
> That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
> --
> Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Lee Hart
>
> 3. To dimly light a vertical row, with the selected LED brightly lit:
> Add a resistor across the emitter-collector leads of each transistor.
> It provides a small background current to all LEDs in the selected
> vertical column.
>
> 4. To dimly light a horizontal row, with the selected LED brightly lit:
> Add a resistor from each output to ground of the LM3914 that is
> measuring current. It likewise provides a small background current
> to all LEDs in the selected horizontal row.
>
> Note: Light levels in a car vary from total darkness (night) to direct
But you can't do both right?
It would result in the entire array dimly lit?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I totally agree. It really is ingenious. I don't have a problem using these
for SWR meters on my Ham gear, and it lends itself to use as a capacity meter
as long as you calibrate the scale properly. The Usefulnes to Work Required
ratio is very high for this one.
Mike,
Anchorage, Ak.
----- Original Message -----
From: Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Friday, June 2, 2006 6:23 am
Subject: Re: the Mark Brueggemann Meter
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> The beauty of Mark Brueggemann's meter is its synergy; it is very
> simple, yet provides a lot of information in a very clear format.
> A key
> to this is its graphical "calculator" --
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Behalf Of Lee Hart
>> 3. To dimly light a vertical row, with the selected LED brightly lit:
>> Add a resistor across the emitter-collector leads of each transistor.
>> It provides a small background current to all LEDs in the selected
>> vertical column.
>>
>> 4. To dimly light a horizontal row, with the selected LED brightly lit:
>> Add a resistor from each output to ground of the LM3914 that is
>> measuring current. It likewise provides a small background current
>> to all LEDs in the selected horizontal row.
Tim Humphrey wrote:
> But you can't do both right?
> It would result in the entire array dimly lit?
Hmm... yes, it would. But you could fix this with a couple more parts.
Build some kind of simple oscillator; 555 timer, schmitt-trigger gate, a
couple of CMOS gates, etc. Use its output to alternately pull the pullup
resistors high, and then the pulldown resistors low. Make the oscillator
frequency high enough so the vertical/horizontal lines of dim LEDs don't
flicker.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I think the villagers distilled it one way or another. If you want au natural
then build yourself a solar distiller.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark E. Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Friday, June 2, 2006 4:08 am
Subject: Fungus Amongus in Battery H2o
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Hi,
>
> I've been collecting rain water for my batteries (EV, Wind-UPS,
> golf cart) in a 30gal cistern tank and it's full of bacteria.
> Adding a quart Clorox bleach monthly removes the bacteria but it
> may be harmful for the US145 batteries in my Cushman. Is there a
> chemist who might know what's safe to add to a cistern to
> eliminate fungus amongus but not be harmful to batteries? How did
> people drink this stuff who live in remote villages anyway?
>
> Thanks,
> Mark
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC
> and save big.
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Eric Poulsen wrote:
Rich,
Can you provide more detailed specs WRT to the Mk3 regs?
1) How accurate are the voltage measurements? I see you're using the
Atmega88. Assuming you're running the chip @5V. Without some sort of
voltage subtracter circuit, scaling the 18V (max working V) to 5V
using a simple voltage divider, combined with the 10-bit resolution of
the onboard A/D, gives you 17.5 mV per LSB, not accounting for divider
inaccuracies, and reference voltage (assumedly vcc) fluctuations. I'm
sure the primary function (bypassing) doesn't need to be terribly
accurate, but for people who would use the Mk3s as a substitute for
checking each battery w/ a voltmeter, +/- 17.5 mV seems like quite a
bit. Do you have a calculated accuracy figure for voltage?
This is a thorny problem... 10bits is really too little, yet that is
what most of the cheap micros offer. You can buy offboard 12bit ADC's,
but they cost more than the micro ($5-7/each) 12bits at 0-25 volts is
about .006V/step
My solution was to pick a oddball chip.. I am using the TI MSP430 series
chips which can be purchased with 12 or even 14 bit ADC's onboard. They
also have their own (fairly good) onboard voltage reference and a
suprisingly good onboard temp sensor. Power management is the best I've
seen, with 4 different shutdown modes going all the way down to pico
amps, with the ability to stop the main processor clock while still
running the ADC on a second low power clock. Dual UARTs in some
chips. Bonus is an onboard LCD driver, so each reg can have an
optional battery voltage display onboard. They are more expensive than
a PIC or Atmel, but so far I think the cost is made up in a reduced
number of parts. (My current design involves about 15 parts)
Temp is still a problem, every chip we have tested so far drifts with
temp but usually in a fairly linear fashion. Close enough that it can
probably be adjusted for using software.
I need to think harder about failure modes.. I have clamping zeners on
all the inputs, but that won't save the reg if it ever see the pack voltage.
I have tested each subsystem, but now I need to design a board, and I
hate using Eagle so I've been avoiding it.
TI also offers a version of the chip designed for use in power meters...
it has an onboard co-processor that can read voltage and shunt current
and integrate the results. I have no idea if it would work in a noisy
DC environment, but it might be worth a try as the start of an E-Meter
replacement..
Mark
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mark E. Hanson wrote:
Hi,
I've been collecting rain water for my batteries (EV, Wind-UPS, golf cart) in a 30gal cistern tank and it's full of bacteria. Adding a quart Clorox bleach monthly removes the bacteria but it may be harmful for the US145 batteries in my Cushman. Is there a chemist who might know what's safe to add to a cistern to eliminate fungus amongus but not be harmful to batteries? How did people drink this stuff who live in remote villages anyway?
Fungus in water is somewhat uncommon.. is this algae perhaps? (Algae is
blue or green in color) Mildew (fungus) happens in damp locations, but
seldom in the water itself.
If its algae you need to keep the water in a dark location, rain barrels
should be opaque or dark green in color. Mildew one the walls is hard
to fix, save for keeping the tank full all the time....
I would lean toward the suggestions to just buy distilled water for the
batteries... its not expensive, and unless you are overcharging you
should not be going thru gallons of water a month.
Rainwater catchment is great for watering your garden, but leave the
water natural, chlorine is not good for the plants.
Mark
Thanks,
Mark
---------------------------------
New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC and save big.
!DSPAM:44802a94306257718390738!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I actually had a change in my reasoning over a couple beers the other night.
We have to be careful not to confuse a 5 year "payback" on an EV (based on the
savings over the alternative) with a 5 year "payoff" + operating expenses of
that same alternative.
Example: I pay $10k for a used ICE vehicle, pay it off over 5 years AND also
pay $10K worth of gas in that 5 years. $20K total expense.
OR
I pay $10K for an EV conversion, pay it off over 5 years with the $9K I save
from buying electricity and not gas. $11K total expense.
How's that for beer logic?
----- Original Message -----
From: David Roden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Friday, June 2, 2006 8:49 am
Subject: Re: Range/Capacity Check
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> On 31 May 2006 at 15:00, MIKE & PAULA WILLMON wrote:
>
> > But if I want to prove that just doing a
> > conversion will pay for itself in a reasonable time like 5
> years, I'm affraid I
> > failed on this attempt.
>
> Well, the way I see it is, there are things that are just
> intrinsically
> worth doing. IMO, there are even things that are intrinsically
> worth
> having, if that makes any kind of sense. I don't have to respond
> to some
> grim-faced army of institutional investors, thank goodness, nor do
> I need to
> impress anyone with my financial acumen. Not everything I do has
> to pay for
> itself. ;-)
>
>
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> EV List Assistant Administrator
>
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation,
> or switch to digest mode? See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/
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>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Don't use roof water in batteries!!! Roof water contains dirt, moss,
bird droppings, dissolved atmospheric gasses, etc. Distilled water can
be bought for about a dollar per gallon or less.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The pictrue is below. LR.........
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Perry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2006 8:35 PM
Subject: Re: Corbin Gentry electric bike
Charlie bought the original (?) MC from Corbin... that's the dad not the
son
that built Sparrow. When he (Charlie) was here picking up my Freeway
electric, he gave me a post card of the bike at the summit. (I didn't get
the pix, if you sent one, but that may be the same one.)
If I recall, he had to get off and walk for the last stretch, but used the
remaining batt power to pull the bike itself to the top of Mt Washington.
Anyone who's driven to the summit knows what a climb that is.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>; "Zappylist"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2006 4:56 PM
Subject: Corbin Gentry electric bike
Corbin Gentry electric bike at summit, Mt. Washington 1974
I got this picture of this man at the summit of Mt. Washington on an
electric vehicle. Has anyone owned a Corbin Gentry? Seems Corbin was
into
more electric vehicles than the VW conversions and the Sparrow.. Nice
bit
of EV history.
Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Reedmaker
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
Vegetable Oil Car.
415-821-3519
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
I would love to have it for my Museum and for parades.
I studied bassoon in the 7th grade, Buffalo, New York, 1941 but failed
miserably. Still can't
read music and it doesn't seem to be the kind of noise maker played before
shrieking crowds.
I believe that music has taken a downturn since the first guitar was
electrified in 1931.
Acoustic music uber alles.
Scooter. the Corbin 18 wheeler has already left for Americade at Lake
George. I was able
to get them to bring a mehari from Petaluma east a couple of years ago.
Me and my Corbin Gentry electric bike at summit, Mt. Washington 1974
--- End Message ---
