EV Digest 5563
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) RE: Motor sizing.
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Pusher trailer - registration / plates?
by Steve Powers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Advice for FIL: NEV, Hybrid, or...?
by Chris & Patrick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Electric/EV basic knowledge
by Chris & Patrick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Reflections on "Who Killed the EV" Seattle Style
by Steven Lough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Electric/EV basic knowledge
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) RE: Pusher trailer - registration / plates?
by "Dave Davidson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Temp Compensation for PFC?
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: E-Volks Wilderness EV at Utah Car Show
by Electro Automotive <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Electric/EV basic knowledge
by "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Pusher trailer - registration / plates?
by Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) [weights and] airbags
by Seth Rothenberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: E-Volks Wilderness EV at Utah Car Show
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: E-Volks Wilderness EV at Utah Car Show
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Soldering terminals to 2/0 welder cable ??
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Pusher trailer - registration / plates?
by "Michael Perry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) FW: Soldering terminals to 2/0 welder cable ??
by Mike & Paula Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Pusher trailer - registration / plates?
by Steve Powers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Soldering terminals to 2/0 welder cable ??
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) EV parts
by Jimmy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Flying out to San Francisco this weekend
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Soldering terminals to 2/0 welder cable ??
by Martin K <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Current Eliminator News!!!!!!
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
24) TO Rick Mills
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Fw: KillaCycle at Ohio State University
by "David (Battery Boy) Hawkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
At the moment I hear the ADC has a stronger commutator than the warp 9
version, either-way, I think I would get in touch with Jim of hi-torque
electric about building you up a motor, he does some extra banding and
insulating that makes them more appropriate for peppy road use. He also
has occasional access to cores for the build and maybe can build you up
a motor for close to the new price.
My 300zx weights 4050 (with me and tools) and with a Jim Hustedized warp
9, the stock tranny, and a zilla 1khv. It was very peppy at 208V and
would lay strips of rubber. I then increased it to 288V and blew up the
commutator, (pictures on Jim Husted site as well as cvevs.jfs-tech.com )
When I got it all back togather and started driving it to work every day
I found I was a little dissappointed with the performance at first, but
I was accelerating faster than I thought I was, kind of an sensory
deprivation hypnosis. With no motor noise to speak of and not needing to
shift through the first 3 gears, You think you are lollygagging along.
When I start from a light next to a sports car, I am in second. The cars
next to me shift 1-2-3 while I am in second and 4-5 while I shift to 3rd
then 4th. (I haven't dared try 5th yet, car needs suspension work and a
speedometer) The motor seems to bog at launch and come alive at about
3000-4000 rpm, I feel (seat of the pants measurment) that the timing is
too far advance for such a heavy vehicle.
In retrospect, with the rear wheel drive setup, I could of avoided the
clutch adapter and tranny adapter and done the dual motor method. It
would cost more up front, but would have been well worth it.
Since we are limited to 170Volts on the DC motors, the higher the pack
voltage the longer you can run before the voltage sag makes you stop
driving and the less amp draws from the pack. The benifit is the car
drives the same when fully charged as when it is empty.(downside, easy
to reverse a cell if not monitored). If your system is lower voltage
then you will be forced to slow down as the SOC goes down. The smaller
the voltage difference, the more amps from the pack is needed, the more
pukert rears it's head and the less spiritedness you get out of it.
2 motors in series would have been twice the torque at launch but tied
to the rear without a tranny balances out because 2nd gear was 2: 1,
then shifting into parallel is the same as 4th gear, except i would have
twice the torque in high gear because there are 2 motors. The
controller is the limit at that point. The zilla has providions for this
series paralle and electrical reversing scenario.
Anyone done a dual motor fiero?
Can this be done? 2 motors in series will differential so building up
a dual stubby motor with seperate shafts and one to each wheel would
work , what about when they are in parallel, will they still allow
gracefull turning?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
A few people on the list have built pusher trailers. How have they handled
registering them? Here in GA, I believe they must be registered as a seperate
entity. Would they be registered as a trailer, two wheel motor vehicle (motor
cycle), or something else?
What if the pusher trailer wasn't a trailer at all. What if it was just a
shortened powered axle permanently attached / hanging off the back of your car
- smaller and permanent. Then, would it be considered part of the base car?
My idea is a little out there. I have implied it before, but I basically
want to take an existing ICE car (small car) and build an appendage off the
back consisting of two 7" diameter motors driving two small motor cycle wheels
through two chains. I would remove the back bumper off the car and bolt this
contraption where the bumper used to go. I'd have to have a bumper on the
trailer I believe to pass a safety inspection. Batteries like any other EV, in
the trunk, where the back seat used to be, and where the passanger seat used to
be. This is a 1 seater car with no payload capacity driven by 12 x 12 V = 144
V through a 1k amp controller. The existing accelerator is rigged so that is
can be manually changed to either drive the ICE or pot box on the controller,
but not both. Anytime, the car is driven, the engine must idle, but as long as
the pack has at least 20% capacity remaining it runs on the electric motors
only, even up to highway speed (65 MPH). If it runs
the battery too low, you have to pull over and manually reconfigure the car to
run on the ICE only. Never both at the same time. It's a "poor man's PHEV"
So, what do you think?
I know it can be technically built, and not that expensive to build the
trailer contraption or appendage to the base car as I call it. But, I'm not
sure if it is legal, implications for traction control of the existing rear
wheels of the car, ... Registration? ... Insurance?
Technically, it would work and probably get better milage than the PHEV's
that other prople are building. Maybe, maybe not on that one. I haven't done
any calculations yet. After all, my ICE is only running at idle. If you put
this on a Prius, you wouldn't need gas at all .. But, I heard you can't 4
wheens down tow that thing, so maybe it wouldn't work. Too bad on that one
because that was my original plan.
I am open to any and all comments, like if anyone has ever tried this in the
early days of EVs.
I really don't think the trailer should be called a motor vehicle because it
has no driver or passengers and it cannot move under its own power. The
controller and batteries are in the base car. It may be a fine line on the
law, and I'm not sure I even want to try to explain this to the DMV.
Steve
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks everyone for the advice. Will pass on to FIL!
BTW - Took my family to see Who Killed The Electric Car last night, and
greatly enjoyed it. In fact, the whole family did, down to our 12 yr old.
Eldest Daughter now wants her first car to be an EV or a plugin hybrid - IF
- she can't get by WITHOUT a car! How's that for inspirational power?
Did anyone else feel like washing their hands after watching the Auto-maker
CEO's squirm during Clinton's press conference (where he extolled the
virtues of EV's, etc)?
:-P
Thanks again!
- Patrick
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thank you everyone for your input and advice.
I have a couple of introductory books on order, a couple of websites
bookmarked, an X-in-one Electronics workshop/kit ordered from my favorite
catalog (American Science & Surplus - dang, you can get ANYTHING there!),
and will probably order some of Lee's kits as well.
That should be enough to get me started, I would think... ;-)
Waiting for the bus on the UW campus the other evening, Eldest Daughter
pulled me out of the rain to show me the nifty formula car mounted on the
wall in the stairwell of the Mechanical Engineering building. Hmm....
Mechanical Engineering... (AKA "so many interesting things to learn about,
so little time..")
;-)
FWIW, I also really liked the idea of taking an automotive course at a CC.
While I've done simple things like changing oil, replacing
alternators/batteries and once did a break job on an old AMC wagon that
required a small sledgehammer, I still find myself hesitant with cars - I'm
convinced I'll screw it all up, I guess! A class would give me some kind
experience and confidence I would hope, which I think is all I need to get
started. Harder to fit that in the schedule, though..
Thanks again everyone!
- Patrick
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
(Please excuse if this is a douplication, but my computer/and Makafee
said it "did not go thru" first time out...)
When I arrived on Pine Street, the LINE for the movie was all the way
round the Block. Rushed over and started to handing out my little paper
"Knock-Off's " of the little hand out that San Francisco EVA were
handing out... ( the electric car - NOT DEAD YET )
Didn't have time to park my INSIGHT.."Eco-Man" TWICE people from the
Egyptian Theater came out and said..."Hay man, your in a Bus Zone - Your
gonna get towed away" I finally had to tell them..."Go AHEAD..This is
MORE IMPORTANT"
So the doors opened, people got in, and I parked my car.
As I walked in the lobby... BOY was I in for a surprise !!
There was Chris Paine - the Director Ms. Chelsea Sexton - X GM EV1
advocate, and Wally Rippel - Engineer from aerovironment on the original
Impact/EV1 Project..! I DIDN'T KNOW THEY WERE GOING TO BE HERE !!
The REAL Punch-Line of the movie was that there IS hope and its name is
PHEV, LiIon batteries, and Renewable Energy !!
After the film, which was very well received with many outbursts of
applause, and laughter, we all walked over to Pike St. to a little
restaurant/lounge. Chris Paine has several friends he grew up with that
LIVE in the Seattle Area. So we have the local connection. Our SEVA
group consisted of Me, and my wife Donna, Dave Cloud, Rod Wilde, Rich
Rudman, Don "Father Time" Crabtree, Ryan Fulcher,and a couple of new
members who I do not know well yet.
It is so great watching our folks inter-act with these "celebrities"
Watching Rich go head-to-head with Chelsea. Rod Wilde discussing
electronics with Wally Rippel.
Saturday there was an equally well attended show at 11 am at the Neptune
Theatre in the U-District. Several more SEVA members showed up. I
offered to answer questions after the film, but management did not Bite.
So we took it outside. A lively discussion ensued with the
CEO of AFS Trinity, Ed. Furia. (After the transportation conference at
Microsoft last week, Ed had dinner with none other than R. James
Woolsey !) Ed is a passionate guy with a dream of a hybrid/hybrid with
batteries, ultracaps, and hybrid system... We wish him the BEST.
In closing... The BIG NEWS is that the film is going to OPEN to the
General Public in Seattle on July 14th. We are already at work with
folks from Puget Sound Solar ( who know Chris Paine from Grade School )
on a Gala PARTY to follow the evening of the Seattle Opening !!! We
will be hoping to get some financial support from SONY PICTURES, and
Electric Entertainment... WE can do the foot work...
We'll keep you POSTED
SEVA MEMBERS !!! See you Tuesday Night at our monthly meeting....
--
Steven S. Lough, Pres.
Seattle EV Association
6021 32nd Ave. N.E.
Seattle, WA 98115-7230
Day: 206 850-8535
Eve: 206 524-1351
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web: http://www.seattleeva.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 10 Jun 2006 at 15:21, Chris & Patrick wrote:
> [I] once did a break job on an old AMC wagon that
> required a small sledgehammer ...
Yep, those AMC Sportabouts and Pacers were darn hard to break.
Sorry, I couldn't resist. ;-)
Obligatory EV content : anybody here remember the Change-of-Pace?
http://www.amcpacer.com/stories/electric-pacer.html
Check out that photo. It looks like they crammed at least 8 golf car
batteries under the hood. Not bad.
It was converted near me, in Cleveland, during the late 1970s. The sad part
is that I never even knew about it at the time. That's how good (not) their
PR was.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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--- Begin Message ---
I believe they are just registered as a home made trailer.
My concern with a permanent installation as you describe is the extra weight
and friction you'd have whether you need it or not. With a trailer, it
stays parked until you need it.
----Original Message Follows----
From: Steve Powers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Pusher trailer - registration / plates?
Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2006 14:38:04 -0700 (PDT)
A few people on the list have built pusher trailers. How have they handled
registering them? Here in GA, I believe they must be registered as a
seperate entity. Would they be registered as a trailer, two wheel motor
vehicle (motor cycle), or something else?
What if the pusher trailer wasn't a trailer at all. What if it was just
a shortened powered axle permanently attached / hanging off the back of your
car - smaller and permanent. Then, would it be considered part of the base
car?
My idea is a little out there. I have implied it before, but I basically
want to take an existing ICE car (small car) and build an appendage off the
back consisting of two 7" diameter motors driving two small motor cycle
wheels through two chains. I would remove the back bumper off the car and
bolt this contraption where the bumper used to go. I'd have to have a
bumper on the trailer I believe to pass a safety inspection. Batteries like
any other EV, in the trunk, where the back seat used to be, and where the
passanger seat used to be. This is a 1 seater car with no payload capacity
driven by 12 x 12 V = 144 V through a 1k amp controller. The existing
accelerator is rigged so that is can be manually changed to either drive the
ICE or pot box on the controller, but not both. Anytime, the car is driven,
the engine must idle, but as long as the pack has at least 20% capacity
remaining it runs on the electric motors only, even up to highway speed (65
MPH). If it runs
the battery too low, you have to pull over and manually reconfigure the
car to run on the ICE only. Never both at the same time. It's a "poor
man's PHEV"
So, what do you think?
I know it can be technically built, and not that expensive to build the
trailer contraption or appendage to the base car as I call it. But, I'm not
sure if it is legal, implications for traction control of the existing rear
wheels of the car, ... Registration? ... Insurance?
Technically, it would work and probably get better milage than the PHEV's
that other prople are building. Maybe, maybe not on that one. I haven't
done any calculations yet. After all, my ICE is only running at idle. If
you put this on a Prius, you wouldn't need gas at all .. But, I heard you
can't 4 wheens down tow that thing, so maybe it wouldn't work. Too bad on
that one because that was my original plan.
I am open to any and all comments, like if anyone has ever tried this in
the early days of EVs.
I really don't think the trailer should be called a motor vehicle because
it has no driver or passengers and it cannot move under its own power. The
controller and batteries are in the base car. It may be a fine line on the
law, and I'm not sure I even want to try to explain this to the DMV.
Steve
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Has anybody tried making a circuit for the PFC chargers that adjusts the
acceptance voltage for temperature? A while back Joe and Rich mentioned
that they may be able to modify a reg. I was wondering if someone as
actually has done this.
thanks
Don
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Anybody with actual experience with one of these cars? They look
like the old aircraft generators that we stopped using more than 20
years ago - which would explain the amazingly low prices.
I would issue a huge Buyer Beware on this outfit.
Shari Prange
Electro Automotive POB 1113 Felton CA 95018-1113 Telephone 831-429-1989
http://www.electroauto.com [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Electric Car Conversion Kits * Components * Books * Videos * Since 1979
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Obligatory EV content : anybody here remember the Change-of-Pace?
>
> http://www.amcpacer.com/stories/electric-pacer.html
>
> Check out that photo. It looks like they crammed at least 8 golf car
> batteries under the hood. Not bad.
>
> It was converted near me, in Cleveland, during the late 1970s. The
sad part
> is that I never even knew about it at the time. That's how good
(not) their
> PR was.
>
To quote "Wayne's World", we're not worthy! Anyone on the list have one?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Steve wrote:
A few people on the list have built pusher trailers. How have they
handled registering them? Here in GA, I believe they must be
registered as a seperate entity. Would they be registered as a
trailer, two wheel motor vehicle (motor cycle), or something else?
It is just another home made trailer. I was concerned because it
already had the VIN number from the donor car, but they issued a new
one on a metal tag I riveted to the tongue. After reflecting on that
a bit, it occurred to me that the existing VIN was not
relavent. When folks cut off an old pickup to make a trailer they
don't keep the VIN from the pickup. It is a "new" trailer made from
used vehicle parts. The existing numbers don't matter.
Missouri only requires a one-time inspection on home built trailers,
just to verify it is actually a home built unit. It is done by any
licensed inspection station. The state sent me a title that says
year 2006, make HMDE body style UTILI.
What if the pusher trailer wasn't a trailer at all. What if it
was just a shortened powered axle permanently attached / hanging
off the back of your car - smaller and permanent. Then, would it
be considered part of the base car?
That sounds like simply a modification to the existing vehicle. Like
adding a "tag" axle to truck or bus.
My idea is a little out there. I have implied it before, but I
basically want to take an existing ICE car (small car) and build an
appendage off the back consisting of two 7" diameter motors driving
two small motor cycle wheels through two chains. I would remove the
back bumper off the car and bolt this contraption where the bumper
used to go. I'd have to have a bumper on the trailer I believe to
pass a safety inspection. Batteries like any other EV, in the
trunk, where the back seat used to be, and where the passanger seat
used to be. This is a 1 seater car with no payload capacity driven
by 12 x 12 V = 144 V through a 1k amp controller. The existing
accelerator is rigged so that is can be manually changed to either
drive the ICE or pot box on the controller, but not both. Anytime,
the car is driven, the engine must idle, but as long as the pack has
at least 20% capacity remaining it runs on the electric motors only,
even up to highway speed (65 MPH). If it runs
the battery too low, you have to pull over and manually
reconfigure the car to run on the ICE only. Never both at the same
time. It's a "poor man's PHEV"
Why idle the engine?
So, what do you think?
Bob Schnevis (sp?) built a Fiat X-1/9 this way at one time. Otmar
mentioned it several years ago. I think he said it as a gas car with
an electric tag axle, then an electric car with a single gas powered
pusher wheel. It might be in the archives somewhere.
I know it can be technically built, and not that expensive to
build the trailer contraption or appendage to the base car as I
call it. But, I'm not sure if it is legal, implications for
traction control of the existing rear wheels of the car,
... Registration? ... Insurance?
What kind of donor car? Honestly, I am afraid the whole thing could
be too heavy and unwieldily. As I have said before, I think it would
be easier to add rear electric drive to a 4 wheel drive car like a
Civic Wagon or a Subaru Justy and dispense with the extra axle. Keep
the ICE drive to the front wheel, just direct drive the rear
differential with an 8" or 9" motor to drive the rear wheels.
Thanks,
Mike Chancey,
'88 Civic EV
Kansas City, Missouri
EV Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
My Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
Join the EV List at: http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
In medio stat virtus - Virtue is in the moderate, not the extreme
position. (Horace)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> I would hesitate to transplant one into a car
> that didn't have one in the first place.
What about a conversion of a vehicle with airbags?
(I'm not sure the question applies to my current EV,
which was converted by a stranger,
so no-one knows what was ripped out)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Maybe some html-savvy person could offer to help them out?
<http://www.e-volks.com>
--- David Roden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I wish them the best. But I'm afraid their homepage won't gain
> them many
> well-educated customers. It appears to have been haphazardly
> coded,
> producing a strange text layout. The words "instead of part of
> the" are
> spread out across one entire line in my browser, and two long
> series of
> hyphens appear in the middle of another line. It's also too wide
> for a 1024
> x 768 browser window, and requires sideways scrolling to see
> everything. What a nuisance.
>
> The homepage is also rife with misspelled words and careless
> punctuation.
>
> Today a website is a substantial part of every company's public
> face. You'd
> think that even if E-Volks's webmaster had some literacy problems,
> they
> could have found someone with a decent high school education to
> proofread the page before they posted it.
>
> I don't advocate the "all style, no content" approach to websites,
> but this
> is no better. IMO it doesn't do much to enhance the reputation of
> EV builders in general. Bummer.
__________________________________________________
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Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
They do tend to offer lower voltage and lower speed cars, which is
easier on components. They did have one of their cars at the show,
and I did see it run -- you can see a short video I posted at
<http://9electric.evforge.net/evolks>. Their designs seem to be
optimized for low cost.
--- Electro Automotive <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Anybody with actual experience with one of these cars? They look
> like the old aircraft generators that we stopped using more than 20
> years ago - which would explain the amazingly low prices.
>
> I would issue a huge Buyer Beware on this outfit.
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Oddly, this subject has never come up before. =)
jmygann wrote:
Newbie here .....
Is it best to crimp and solder or just solder ?
Special method or solder ?? Gap between insulation and ends ? Heat
shrink tubing ?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
As a possible answer, do a Google search on "EV Pusher Rabbit"... or look at
www.mrsharkey.com/pusher.htm You can ask how they got their rigs past
inspections.
I spoke Sharkey a number of years ago... a resident of our town, but we
spoke online. He bought his converted Rabbit EV for a couple grand (a real
bargain) and started playing w/ the idea of a pusher. I don't know if he was
the first to build one, but he worked independently. I think he got the idea
from another Oregon resident, but can't say for sure.
Actually, from the few times I've seen him around, I'm not sure he drives
his car on batts.
Of course, every state's registration is different. Only your local DMV
could say for sure. It is attached to the vehicle and controlled by the
driver. If it's illegal, then all the new busses our city is buying should
also be illegal. (They are accordion busses... engine in the rear pusher
trolley.)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Powers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Saturday, June 10, 2006 2:38 PM
Subject: Pusher trailer - registration / plates?
> A few people on the list have built pusher trailers. How have they
handled registering them? Here in GA, I believe they must be registered as
a seperate entity. Would they be registered as a trailer, two wheel motor
vehicle (motor cycle), or something else?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Sure it has. Check the post with by Lee Hart on March 16 this year.
Subject was changed to:
Re: $21 crimpers (was: Soldering terminals to 2/0 welder cable ??)
> Newbie here...
>
> Is it best to crimp and solder or just solder?
Lee Hart wrote;
A good crimp and a good solder joint are basically the same. The
problems come from bad crimps and bad solder joints. So, which one you
use depends on your skill and your tools.
Good crimps depend heavily on using good tools. The right tools cost
$150 or more, and look like a big bolt cutter with 2-foot long handles
and dies specifically matched to the terminals you use. If you use a
hammer crimper, or a vice, or the wrong size wire in your terminal, or
home made terminals with a piece of copper water pipe, you are very
likely to get bad crimps.
Good solder joints depend heavily on your skill. Since solder is
mechanically weak, you need a good tight fit between wire and terminal
anyway. The parts must be very clean. You need enough heat to solder it
quickly, so the solder does not wick back up the wire or damage the
insulation. And of course, you need the right solder and flux; not acid
core or plumbing solder.
If you must work with simple inexpensive tools, it's best to crimp the
terminal with a hammer or vice; then solder it anyway. This gives you
two chances to get it "right" -- as long as either the crimp or the
solder joint is good, you have good connection.
Finally, if you are inexperienced at making such joints, TEST them
before depending on them. Run as high a current as you can manage
through the joint (such as 10-20 amps from a battery charger). Measure
the voltage drop across the joint with a sensitive voltmeter. It should
be very low, and not change as you wiggle the wire. Also see if the
connection gets warm or hot; if it does, it's done wrong.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Eric Poulsen
Sent: Saturday, June 10, 2006 8:38 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Soldering terminals to 2/0 welder cable ??
Oddly, this subject has never come up before. =)
jmygann wrote:
>Newbie here .....
>
>Is it best to crimp and solder or just solder ?
>
> Special method or solder ?? Gap between insulation and ends ? Heat
>shrink tubing ?
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Steve wrote:
>A few people on the list have built pusher trailers. How have they
>handled registering them? Here in GA, I believe they must be
>registered as a seperate entity. Would they be registered as a
>trailer, two wheel motor vehicle (motor cycle), or something else?
It is just another home made trailer. I was concerned because it
already had the VIN number from the donor car, but they issued a new
one on a metal tag I riveted to the tongue. After reflecting on that
a bit, it occurred to me that the existing VIN was not
relavent. When folks cut off an old pickup to make a trailer they
don't keep the VIN from the pickup. It is a "new" trailer made from
used vehicle parts. The existing numbers don't matter.
Missouri only requires a one-time inspection on home built trailers,
just to verify it is actually a home built unit. It is done by any
licensed inspection station. The state sent me a title that says
year 2006, make HMDE body style UTILI.
> What if the pusher trailer wasn't a trailer at all. What if it
> was just a shortened powered axle permanently attached / hanging
> off the back of your car - smaller and permanent. Then, would it
> be considered part of the base car?
That sounds like simply a modification to the existing vehicle. Like
adding a "tag" axle to truck or bus.
>My idea is a little out there. I have implied it before, but I
>basically want to take an existing ICE car (small car) and build an
>appendage off the back consisting of two 7" diameter motors driving
>two small motor cycle wheels through two chains. I would remove the
>back bumper off the car and bolt this contraption where the bumper
>used to go. I'd have to have a bumper on the trailer I believe to
>pass a safety inspection. Batteries like any other EV, in the
>trunk, where the back seat used to be, and where the passanger seat
>used to be. This is a 1 seater car with no payload capacity driven
>by 12 x 12 V = 144 V through a 1k amp controller. The existing
>accelerator is rigged so that is can be manually changed to either
>drive the ICE or pot box on the controller, but not both. Anytime,
>the car is driven, the engine must idle, but as long as the pack has
>at least 20% capacity remaining it runs on the electric motors only,
>even up to highway speed (65 MPH). If it runs
> the battery too low, you have to pull over and manually
> reconfigure the car to run on the ICE only. Never both at the same
> time. It's a "poor man's PHEV"
Why idle the engine?
I just wanted to make it easy to get all the accys, power brakes, power
steering, etc. If I used a Hybrid as the donor, I wouldn't have to idle it at
all. But again, I hear you can't push it 65 MPH with all 4 wheels on the
ground.
> So, what do you think?
Bob Schnevis (sp?) built a Fiat X-1/9 this way at one time. Otmar
mentioned it several years ago. I think he said it as a gas car with
an electric tag axle, then an electric car with a single gas powered
pusher wheel. It might be in the archives somewhere.
> I know it can be technically built, and not that expensive to
> build the trailer contraption or appendage to the base car as I
> call it. But, I'm not sure if it is legal, implications for
> traction control of the existing rear wheels of the car,
> ... Registration? ... Insurance?
What kind of donor car? Honestly, I am afraid the whole thing could
be too heavy and unwieldily. As I have said before, I think it would
be easier to add rear electric drive to a 4 wheel drive car like a
Civic Wagon or a Subaru Justy and dispense with the extra axle. Keep
the ICE drive to the front wheel, just direct drive the rear
differential with an 8" or 9" motor to drive the rear wheels.
Originally, I wanted to use a small hybrid as the donor car. But, then I was
going to completely redesign the rear axle ... Then, I discovered this was way
too complicated. Then, I was going to take any old small car (like my 97
Corolla) and swap out the whole rear with a powered axle. I got under there
and started looking around and found that to be near impossible. For one
thing, it has 4 wheel independent suspension and I was going to replace it with
a solid powered rear axle. I have serious concerns about the handling and
performance of it. Not to mention that there is no room under there. I
suspect the same thing with any small 4 wheel drive or all wheel drive car.
Probably, I can't fit an 8" (probably need a 9" anyway because of all the
weight) anywhere under there without some major redesign. Maybe an old 4WD
jeep might have the room, but those things are heavy to begin with. Maybe an
AWD Suburu wagon / pickup. I'm open to suggestions. Anyway, thats
when I decided, why not just hang it off the back of the car. Much easier
that way. But, if Icould integrate it, that would be much better.
Steve
Thanks,
Mike Chancey,
'88 Civic EV
Kansas City, Missouri
EV Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
My Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
Join the EV List at: http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
In medio stat virtus - Virtue is in the moderate, not the extreme
position. (Horace)
__________________________________________________
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In are work, which is building interior electrical and overhead line
exterior electrical, we are not allow to solder plated wire terminals or
cable lugs. This causes a bi-metal connection which increases the
resistance in the joint. We do used a mechanical bi-metal connector for
joining copper to aluminum which has a plated metal divider between two
different metal conductors.
In a solder plated connection, you may have copper to solder (tin) to
cadmium (plated) to brass which acts like a semi-conductor.
We are allow to solder copper to copper connections after they are
mechanical connected first. You crimp first and than may solder to fill any
void. We haven't done this since the 1940's, since this may cause fires
which had burn down buildings if the connection is not good.
Again, do not tin the conductor before inserting into the lug, as where this
causes another bi-metal barrier.
To prevent any air voids in the wire terminals, we used a long barrel lug
which is crimp two or three times on guide lines using a hex crimping tool.
Sometimes when specified, we will used large hydraulic crimpier that can
crimp the whole barrel all at once which I find is the best which performs a
smooth crimp surface.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike & Paula Willmon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Sunday, June 11, 2006 2:13 AM
Subject: FW: Soldering terminals to 2/0 welder cable ??
> Sure it has. Check the post with by Lee Hart on March 16 this year.
> Subject was changed to:
> Re: $21 crimpier (was: Soldering terminals to 2/0 welder cable ??)
>
> > Newbie here...
> >
> > Is it best to crimp and solder or just solder?
>
> Lee Hart wrote;
> A good crimp and a good solder joint are basically the same. The
> problems come from bad crimps and bad solder joints. So, which one you
> use depends on your skill and your tools.
>
> Good crimps depend heavily on using good tools. The right tools cost
> $150 or more, and look like a big bolt cutter with 2-foot long handles
> and dies specifically matched to the terminals you use. If you use a
> hammer crimpier, or a vice, or the wrong size wire in your terminal, or
> home made terminals with a piece of copper water pipe, you are very
> likely to get bad crimps.
>
> Good solder joints depend heavily on your skill. Since solder is
> mechanically weak, you need a good tight fit between wire and terminal
> anyway. The parts must be very clean. You need enough heat to solder it
> quickly, so the solder does not wick back up the wire or damage the
> insulation. And of course, you need the right solder and flux; not acid
> core or plumbing solder.
>
> If you must work with simple inexpensive tools, it's best to crimp the
> terminal with a hammer or vice; then solder it anyway. This gives you
> two chances to get it "right" -- as long as either the crimp or the
> solder joint is good, you have good connection.
>
> Finally, if you are inexperienced at making such joints, TEST them
> before depending on them. Run as high a current as you can manage
> through the joint (such as 10-20 amps from a battery charger). Measure
> the voltage drop across the joint with a sensitive voltmeter. It should
> be very low, and not change as you wiggle the wire. Also see if the
> connection gets warm or hot; if it does, it's done wrong.
> --
> Ring the bells that still can ring
> Forget the perfect offering
> There is a crack in everything
> That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of Eric Poulsen
> Sent: Saturday, June 10, 2006 8:38 PM
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: Re: Soldering terminals to 2/0 welder cable ??
>
>
> Oddly, this subject has never come up before. =)
>
> jmygann wrote:
>
> >Newbie here .....
> >
> >Is it best to crimp and solder or just solder ?
> >
> > Special method or solder ?? Gap between insulation and ends ? Heat
> >shrink tubing ?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
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Check out the Lester charger and Solectria A/C unit on e-bay.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1,1&item=8074286897&sspagename=STRK%3AMESE%3AIT
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1,1&item=8074289346&sspagename=STRK%3AMESE%3AIT
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7248560211&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMESE%3AIT&rd=1
Jimmy
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One thought might be to get together at Lawerence's goat pizza gathering
Monday night.
Chris
John Martin wrote:
Mike
I have been lurking on this list. I would like to meet you and show you
my next project. My son and I have a 1983 Rabbit GTI for a conversion.
We could use some advice. My cell # is 415-613-7408.
John and Nathaniel
San Francisco
On Jun 7, 2006, at 1:43 PM, Mike Phillips wrote:
What part of the Bay Area are you going too? That might help nail down
where you are going to be.
Mike
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I'm going to be flying out to San Francisco to meet with a guy and work
on his US Electricar truck/Prizm this weekend. This is probably
going to
be a simple fix, meaning I'll have some time to tool around and meet
people.
Would anyone like to get together with an East Coast EVer while I'm out
there? Dinner/tour of cars/chatting/whatever? It would be
interesting to
meet some of you while I'm there.
Chris
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Crimp and solder.
Solder = electrical connection
Crimp = mechanical connection
One can sometimes substitute for the other, though a crimped connection
will eventually go up in resistance unless done very well and a soldered
connection will eventually fail mechanically if subject to strain.
--
MK
Eric Poulsen wrote:
Oddly, this subject has never come up before. =)
jmygann wrote:
Newbie here .....
Is it best to crimp and solder or just solder ?
Special method or solder ?? Gap between insulation and ends ? Heat
shrink tubing ?
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Lost in the 1st round at Firebird last night at the NHRA summit race for a
$1000 to the dragster that took out the 1st place person at team speedworld.I
had a .003 reaction time but did not dial the CE close enough.This does not
affect my points standing for the NHRA summit series at Speedworld,where we are
still in 1st place in the super pro class. Dennis Berube
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Rick:
If you would like to get together, pls email me with your phone number.
Maybe you could come up to John's and we can review general Prizm stuff.
I'm here till Monday night.
Chris
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>Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2006 15:47:33 -0600
>To: Giorgio Rizzoni
>From: "David (Battery Boy) Hawkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: KillaCycle at Ohio State University
>
>Giorgio Rizzoni,
>Although it's late, just a quick note to say what a great tour I received
>when I stopped to show the KillaCycle to your CAR team back on May 20th!
>I'm glad I got your e-mail address from Dave Stensland of
>MegawattMotorworks.com and made the effort to stop at OSU. It was a real
>inspiration for me to see what your students are up to, and it was a nice
>break during my four days of driving back from Baltimore to Denver! David
>Cooke was a great spokesperson for CAR and truly rolled out the red carpet
>for me. I mentioned a coffee shop I noticed on my way to the motel the
>night before, so after parking the KillaCycle transport vehicle at CAR,
>David shuttled me to the coffee shop for some great food and drink, and
>then gave me a tour of the OSU campus. When we returned to CAR, David gave
>me an awesome tour of your facilities and all the past and present
>projects (of course I loved the record setting Buckeye Bullet and Formula
>Lightning!). Although the CAR team was busy getting a hybrid vehicle
>finished for an upcoming competition, they all took a little time to see
>the KillaCycle, and also took the time to explain their hybrid vehicle to
>me during my tour. Anyway, please thank your students for their
>hospitality, and give David a pat on the back for his red carpet treatment!
>
>50,000 plus eelectric miles on the buggies, and a countin',
>Dave (B.B.) Hawkins
>Member of the Denver Electric Vehicle Council:
>http://www.devc.org/
>Card carrying member and former racer with The National Electric Drag
>Racing Association:
>http://www.nedra.com/
>Lyons, CO
>1979 Mazda RX-7 EV (192V of Orbs for the teenage daughter)
>1989 GM (General Murderers of the EV-1!) S10 (144V of floodies, for Pa only!)
>2004 Toyota Prius (for Ma, and Pa if Ma is a supervising!)
>
>
>> Dave:
>> I do believe that the team will be here.
>> I will be away. Please communicate with David Cooke.
>
>
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