EV Digest 5617
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: DC Motor torque calculations
by "steve clunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Scientific American Grid Article
by "John Westlund" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Raptor Controller for sale
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Scientific American Grid Article
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: DC Motor torque calculations
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Air conditioning gains
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) re: Scientific American Grid Article
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) RE: gang charger
by "Jody Dewey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: DC Motor torque calculations
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
10) RE: gang charger
by "Jody Dewey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: New Bikey NEB
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Was: Scientific American Grid Article- Where is NJ?
by Dave <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) RE: Scientific American Grid Article
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: DC Motor torque calculations
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Scientific American Grid Article
by "Martin K" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: DC Motor torque calculations
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) US Saft Reseller (Lou?)
by "Jonathan \"Sheer\" Pullen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: US Saft Reseller (Lou?)
by Chet Fields <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) FasTrack 0-60 mph Data
by MIKE & PAULA WILLMON <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) RE: US Saft Reseller (Lou?)
by "rcboyd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Valence Technology Batteries
by "ProEV" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Prius PHEV, was Re: Valence Technology Batteries
by "ProEV" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Hummmm Look at this. Anyone "seen" one?
by "ProEV" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Hummmm Look at this. Anyone "seen" one?
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Surplus color LED display
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) RE: Valence Technology Batteries
by "David Sherritze" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) RE: Hummmm Look at this. Anyone "seen" one?
by "David Ankers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: FasTrack 0-60 mph Data
by Steve Condie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) Re: Hummmm Look at this. Anyone "seen" one?
by "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
30) Re: Prius PHEV, was Re: Valence Technology Batteries
by "Doug Hartley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
31) Re: Scientific American Grid Article
by "Michael Perry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
32) RE: Scientific American Grid Article
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Matthew , The 2k zilla that is in Paul's car was in my pick up first .
You can see it spinning the wheels in 4th gear at www.grassrootsev.com . I
have no clutch in that set up . After putting on bigger tires and still
spinning the tires , the tranny started making a funny sound , so I let Paul
have it , while we wait for Otmar to refill our plate :-)
----- Original Message -----
I met with Paul of World Class Exotics earlier, and got a ride around in
his Porsche 959 EV. It uses a Netgain Warp 11" motor, and I was impressed
with the performance, considering he used 3rd and 4th only.
I'm making him a clutchless adapter , it will be much more impressive with
out the clutch which now slips quite a bit.
He said that the Netgain engineers were able to calculate how much torque
the motor would make based upon voltage, amperage, and efficiency. The
dyno graphs are at 72v, and don't really give real world performance.
I haven't seen the graphs for the 11 , where did you see them . If they are
at 2000 amp from 0 to 72v then we would know something as max torque will
be at a low rpm .
Steve Clunn
So my question is - does anyone know how to extrapolate the torque
produced by a DC motor based upon the 72V rating? If so, could you share
the equation with the list?
Thanks a lot.
-Matthew Drobnak
Future EV driver :-)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Transmission losses through the power distribution system
mostly come from substations, capacitors, and such.
Superconducting material for our power lines won't do much,
as those lines already are ~99% efficient! All that extra
money for such a small gain?
Delivering electricity from power plant to your home is
about 92% efficient(It does vary a bit). Power lines are the
least of the losses.
Take a power systems analysis course if you seek to
understand how this works in any sort of depth, relatively
speaking. I personally wonder what NJ knows about this
topic.
If we are to have millions of EVs on the road, our grid
could probably handle that. 20-30 million by more rational
estimates, 100 million by some very optimistic estimates,
with no new capacity added. What we need more than to reduce
transmission losses is to install more grid capacity.
Preferably, more wind, solar, biomass, and maybe nuclear.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks for the heads-up.
For the record, Peter Senkowski, Meyers Motors, does an upgrade on the old
Raptors. Mine needed it after letting the smoke out.
The new version has put over 4,000 miles on it.
If I was converting another, I'd take one in a heartbeat, knowing that Peter
will take good care of me.
peace,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Anyone work on these if there is a problem? Last I heard they were out of
production and no more factory support.
David Chapman.
Quoting David Sherritze :
> While looking on ebay I saw a Raptor 600 DC Controller for sale.
>
> I have no ties to this sale but looks good for someone working on a
> project.
>
> http://cgi.ebay.com/Raptor-600-DC-Motor-
> Controller_W0QQitemZ260002934707QQihZ016QQcategoryZ42924QQssPageNameZWD
> VWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
>
>
>
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Superconducting transmission lines have been studied in great detail
before. They make no sense because:
1) AC losses are not zero in superconductors. You need to pump these
losses away at cryogenic temperature. Any possible efficiency gains
are lost by this fact.
2) Superconducting lines would be underground. Underground lines cost
8 times what overhead lines do.
Bill Dube'
At 07:35 AM 7/3/2006, you wrote:
Transmission losses through the power distribution system
mostly come from substations, capacitors, and such.
Superconducting material for our power lines won't do much,
as those lines already are ~99% efficient! All that extra
money for such a small gain?
Delivering electricity from power plant to your home is
about 92% efficient(It does vary a bit). Power lines are the
least of the losses.
Take a power systems analysis course if you seek to
understand how this works in any sort of depth, relatively
speaking. I personally wonder what NJ knows about this
topic.
If we are to have millions of EVs on the road, our grid
could probably handle that. 20-30 million by more rational
estimates, 100 million by some very optimistic estimates,
with no new capacity added. What we need more than to reduce
transmission losses is to install more grid capacity.
Preferably, more wind, solar, biomass, and maybe nuclear.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Matthew,
The torque of a motor is proportional to the number of conductors on the
armature, to the current per conductor and to the total flux in the motor.
So larger the motor, the more armature windings, the more current and magnetic
flux produces more torque.
If you reduce the current by one-half, then the motor torque is reduce by
one-half.
torque = 0.1175 x A.C. x T.F. x Ia x (poles/paths) x 10 to the minus 8
power.
A.C. is the total number of armature conductors
T.F. is the total flux per pole
Ia is the current per conductor
For a given size motor, the number of armature conductors, the number of poles,
and the number of armature paths, are constant.
This constant can be provided by the motor manufacturer.
Then you can use this equation derided from the above.
torque = a constant x T.F. x Ia
I had Netgain give me the data on a 9 and 11 inch Warp motor for my EV.
This requires the following data:
Total weight of EV
Gear ratios in each gear
Axle ratio
Speed in each gear
Maximum RPM
Maximum Temperature Rating
Maximum Ampere for a specific amount of time.
Maximum Ampere constant.
Maximum motor voltage
Battery Pack voltage
Controller type.
>From this above date, they can determined the torque, rpm and current at a
>certain speed of the EV.
For me, it was 100 amps at 3000 rpm at 180 volts at 30 mph at a torque of 15 ft
lbs for a Warp 9.
The Warp 11 would be about half the current at the same current flow at the
same rpm.
Roland
T
----- Original Message -----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu<mailto:ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Sunday, July 02, 2006 11:03 PM
Subject: DC Motor torque calculations
Hi all,
I've been reading the archives for a while through yahoo...and today
something was brought to my attention, and I figured I'd ask on the list...
I met with Paul of World Class Exotics earlier, and got a ride around in his
Porsche 959 EV. It uses a Netgain Warp 11" motor, and I was impressed with the
performance, considering he used 3rd and 4th only.
He said that the Netgain engineers were able to calculate how much torque the
motor would make based upon voltage, amperage, and efficiency. The dyno graphs
are at 72v, and don't really give real world performance.
So my question is - does anyone know how to extrapolate the torque produced
by a DC motor based upon the 72V rating? If so, could you share the equation
with the list?
Thanks a lot.
-Matthew Drobnak
Future EV driver :-)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I also think the insulation is still usefull.
When driving and using the AC, it reduces the load.
When sitting in the parking lot it reduces the heat transfer into the
vehicle and, if the fan is on a thermal switch, how long before that fan
comes on. Once the fan comes on it still reduces the amount of heat
transfered into the box. Because of all the metal and glass a car gets a
lot hotter than the ambient air. The fan reduces the accumulated build
up and is turned off when the AC is acutally trying to cool the vehicle.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Great, why not just say "integrated ignition source".
I assume these are buried lines only and are split off way before they
reach the house. First they would need to be metered seperately and
second for safety.
How many times a day are power lines hit, crossed, and hit with a back-hoe?
Before someone cry's fowl, off topic, I think fuel cells have promise,
but as a small scale battery charger to extend the range of an EV and
provide heat for cabin and for generating AC.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
That is a great idea - I think I might go this route and use that in
addition to a ZIVAN charger for my whole pack charge. Maybe have the ZIVAN
charge the pack and then have the gang chargers float charge the pack so
each battery is fully charged for the next day.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of David Sherritze
Sent: Sunday, July 02, 2006 11:11 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: RE: gang charger
No the chargers have built in protection for reverse polarity, short
circuit, A/C surge, over-voltage and over-current.
I contacted the company and asked about using them on a series. They told me
just to hook them up and use them.
They are permanently installed in the vehicle with an exterior rated
multi-outlet strip. I have been using this set-up since Feb with no
problems. I just drive then plug them in.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Jody Dewey
Sent: Sunday, July 02, 2006 8:53 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: RE: gang charger
But you have to separate the batteries for it to work right? Do you
separate them every night? Sounds like a formula for wearing out the
connections.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Michael Perry
Sent: Sunday, July 02, 2006 5:39 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: gang charger
Interesting. And if one unit is still charging in the morning, you know that
batt could be dead.
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Sherritze" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Sunday, July 02, 2006 6:00 AM
Subject: RE: gang charger
> I also do something similar with by GEM Car short bed utility. Stating the
> obvious, it is 72 volts (6 - 12 volt batteries). Instead of the onboard
> Zivan NG-1 , which constantly gives me problems, I use six 7 amp ACI
> Superchargers (model 1214). ACI's sister company is SONEIL.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I got my information from the Netgain web page at:
http://www.go-ev.com/motors-warp.html
Also, anyone know how accurate the range calculators are (like on Ueve's page
or www.evconvert.com)? Just as some background, I'm looking to convert a 2000
Lincoln LS, and keeping A/C, P/S, and the automatic transmission...I know I'll
need an external motor to drive the accessories...
-Matt
----- Original Message -----
From: steve clunn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Monday, July 3, 2006 9:32 am
Subject: Re: DC Motor torque calculations
> Hi Matthew , The 2k zilla that is in Paul's car was in my pick up
> first .
> You can see it spinning the wheels in 4th gear at
> www.grassrootsev.com . I
> have no clutch in that set up . After putting on bigger tires and
> still
> spinning the tires , the tranny started making a funny sound , so I
> let Paul
> have it , while we wait for Otmar to refill our plate :-)
> ----- Original Message -----
> >
> > I met with Paul of World Class Exotics earlier, and got a ride
> around in
> > his Porsche 959 EV. It uses a Netgain Warp 11" motor, and I was
> impressed
> > with the performance, considering he used 3rd and 4th only.
> >
> I'm making him a clutchless adapter , it will be much more
> impressive with
> out the clutch which now slips quite a bit.
>
>
> > He said that the Netgain engineers were able to calculate how
> much torque
> > the motor would make based upon voltage, amperage, and
> efficiency. The
> > dyno graphs are at 72v, and don't really give real world
> performance.
> I haven't seen the graphs for the 11 , where did you see them . If
> they are
> at 2000 amp from 0 to 72v then we would know something as max
> torque will
> be at a low rpm .
> Steve Clunn
>
>
> >
> > So my question is - does anyone know how to extrapolate the
> torque
> > produced by a DC motor based upon the 72V rating? If so, could
> you share
> > the equation with the list?
> >
> > Thanks a lot.
> >
> > -Matthew Drobnak
> > Future EV driver :-)
> >
> >
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I would make sure that the PIV rating of the diode is higher than the entire
pack voltage. That way if there is a short circuit you are not grounding
the entire pack through that one charger. PIV stands for Peak Inverse
Voltage for the non-electronic types. I would also make sure that the diode
can take upwards of 50 amps of forward current. Even though you are only
going to be putting 12 amps tops through it that will give you a generous
safety margin.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Matthew Milliron
Sent: Sunday, July 02, 2006 10:49 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: gang charger
On Sun, 2 Jul 2006 21:31:26 -0400, you wrote:
>As a precaution you might want to put a diode in the positive lead of each
>charger to the battery. That way current can't come back from an adjacent
>battery.
I think this is a great idea. An inexpensive "just in case".
> Have you calculated how much input current is going to be drawn
>with 8 chargers all hooked up?
I am told less than 20 amps, plus a 120 volt muffin fan for
ventilation/cooling.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Behalf Of Matthew Milliron
>Sent: Saturday, July 01, 2006 10:25 PM
>To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
>Subject: Re: gang charger
>
>
>On Sat, 1 Jul 2006 17:07:28 -0400, you wrote:
>
>>How many are you going to use?
> I bought 8. I would rather bought the Deltran but it only charges
>at 2 amps.
>
Matt Milliron
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/702
My daughter named it, "Pikachu". It's yellow and black,
electric and contains Japanese parts, so I went with it.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
nikki wrote:
Anyone else got something similar which they'd like to share knowledge
about? This isn't classed as an electric moped, more of a scooter with
pedals to enable it to be qualified as a bike.
Interesting. I have an Aprila Enjoy electric hybrid bike. It has a pack
of 20 Saft NiMH F cells in a carrier, and a 250 watt motor connected to
the pedals thru a set of slip clutches and torque sensors.
What the motor does is supply torque. Lots of torque. When you're
pedaling normally the motor doesn't do anything. When you start to pedal
harder the motor starts kicking in with pulses of energy.
Overall a pretty efficient use of the batteries. They work a little rest
a little. Likewise the rider gets to work some, but not so much you
become a complete wreck. Kind of like a hybrid.
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
-----Original Message-----
>From: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Sent: Jul 3, 2006 6:46 AM
>To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
>Subject: Re: Scientific American Grid Article
>
Snip
speaking. I personally wonder what NJ knows about this
>>topic.
>>
Yea. Where is he these days?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Before somebody solves the distribution issue in an *ahem*
interesting way, there may be the tiny subject of how to
generate this Hydrogen in an efficient way and at the other
side of the pipe - who is consuming it?
Last I checked, there was not a large density of H-cars
anywhere, any time soon.
Keep charging,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Bill Dennis
Sent: Monday, July 03, 2006 5:30 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Scientific American Grid Article
There's an interesting article in this month's Scientific American about
slowly replacing our current electrical grid with a new one comprising a
cooled superconductor wrapped in a hydrogen sheath pipe. Both electricity
and hydrogen would be delivered, providing for home and EV use.
Bill Dennis
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Matt, why do you think you need an external motor to drive the accessories?
Years ago I built a Ford Taurus with air conditioning and power steering all
driven off the auxiliary shaft. When you turned the key to the start
position a latching relay kept it on in idle position so that steering and
air would work. I used a cermet pot in line with the PB6 in order to have
very fine idle adjustment. It worked great!
Roderick
Roderick Wilde, President, EV Parts Inc.
Your Online EV Superstore
www.evparts.com
1-360-385-7082
Phone: 360-582-1270 Fax: 360-582-1272
PO Box 834, Carlsborg, WA 98324
108-B Business Park Loop, Sequim, WA 98382
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Monday, July 03, 2006 7:20 AM
Subject: Re: DC Motor torque calculations
I got my information from the Netgain web page at:
http://www.go-ev.com/motors-warp.html
Also, anyone know how accurate the range calculators are (like on Ueve's
page or www.evconvert.com)? Just as some background, I'm looking to
convert a 2000 Lincoln LS, and keeping A/C, P/S, and the automatic
transmission...I know I'll need an external motor to drive the
accessories...
-Matt
----- Original Message -----
From: steve clunn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Monday, July 3, 2006 9:32 am
Subject: Re: DC Motor torque calculations
Hi Matthew , The 2k zilla that is in Paul's car was in my pick up
first .
You can see it spinning the wheels in 4th gear at
www.grassrootsev.com . I
have no clutch in that set up . After putting on bigger tires and
still
spinning the tires , the tranny started making a funny sound , so I
let Paul
have it , while we wait for Otmar to refill our plate :-)
----- Original Message -----
>
> I met with Paul of World Class Exotics earlier, and got a ride
around in
> his Porsche 959 EV. It uses a Netgain Warp 11" motor, and I was
impressed
> with the performance, considering he used 3rd and 4th only.
>
I'm making him a clutchless adapter , it will be much more
impressive with
out the clutch which now slips quite a bit.
> He said that the Netgain engineers were able to calculate how
much torque
> the motor would make based upon voltage, amperage, and
efficiency. The
> dyno graphs are at 72v, and don't really give real world
performance.
I haven't seen the graphs for the 11 , where did you see them . If
they are
at 2000 amp from 0 to 72v then we would know something as max
torque will
be at a low rpm .
Steve Clunn
>
> So my question is - does anyone know how to extrapolate the
torque
> produced by a DC motor based upon the 72V rating? If so, could
you share
> the equation with the list?
>
> Thanks a lot.
>
> -Matthew Drobnak
> Future EV driver :-)
>
>
--
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Checked by AVG Free Edition.
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No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Sounds outrageously expensively unrealistic.
They can just as easily use some method of creating synthetic "natural"
gas and piping it through the existing system.
--
MK
On Mon, July 3, 2006 12:29 pm, Bill Dennis wrote:
> There's an interesting article in this month's Scientific American about
> slowly replacing our current electrical grid with a new one comprising a
> cooled superconductor wrapped in a hydrogen sheath pipe. Both electricity
> and hydrogen would be delivered, providing for home and EV use.
>
> Bill Dennis
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Jul 2, 2006, at 10:03 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
So my question is - does anyone know how to extrapolate the torque
produced by a DC motor based upon the 72V rating? If so, could you
share the equation with the list?
Voltage has a negligible effect on motor torque. Run the line from
motor amps to the torque produced. It will be the same torque at the
same amps at 36 volts or 144 volts - the rpm will be different so the
horsepower will be different.
Paul G.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm trying to find contact information for any reseller of SAFT's larger
NiCad or NiMH batteries. Can someone point me in the right direction?
Thanks muchos,
Sheer
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lou Magnarella
Sales Manager, Electric Vehicles/AGV
Saft America Inc.
711 Industrial Blvd.
Valdosta, GA 31601
(Ph) 229-245-3015
(F) 229-247-8486
(CP) 229-251-9827
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Website: www.saftbatteries.com
--- "Jonathan \"Sheer\" Pullen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I'm trying to find contact information for any reseller of SAFT's larger
> NiCad or NiMH batteries. Can someone point me in the right direction?
>
> Thanks muchos,
>
> Sheer
>
>
>
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I got my clutch changed on Saturday night. 100% ceramic disc holds really well
now. So... I had a little time and pulled some data on 0-45 mph and 0-60 mph
runs. 1 each starting in 2nd and shifting to 3rd...and 1 each starting right
from 3rd. You can see the FasTrack outputs at
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/756. Just a note on the high motor voltage
anomaly. Otmar confirms it is most likely an un-calibrated resistor value in
the motor voltage sense circuitry. Although he never intended for the DAQ
functions to be user accessible I find them very useful. On my controller the
motor voltage reads 53% higher than actual. You can see on the graphs when the
Duty Cycle reaches 100%. My assumption is that when that happens the motor and
battery voltage are the same, as well as motor and battery current. Anyway,
for what its worth I'll leave these plots up on the EVAlbum for a while. On
future plots I'll post process the motor voltages down to actaul values.
Mike
Anchorage, AK.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have 72 first generation PEVE prismatic 7.2 nominal voltage NiMHy
batteries. I am 85 years old and tired of working alone, and am going
to sell out all of my EV equipment.
Contact me at:
Phone 208 772 6159
Cell 208 640 3176
Bob Boyd
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Jonathan "Sheer" Pullen
Sent: Monday, July 03, 2006 11:41 AM
Cc: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: US Saft Reseller (Lou?)
I'm trying to find contact information for any reseller of SAFT's larger
NiCad or NiMH batteries. Can someone point me in the right direction?
Thanks muchos,
Sheer
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Chris,
It is great to hear from another person who is going to run Lithium cells.
We are very happy with our Kokam's but want to hear more about what is
available.
I ordered 12 U24-12XP batteries and a U-BMS-XP-HV
battery management unit. I just received the BMS, and
my batteries ship this week from China. They are
pricey, but on paper they meet my specific needs --
specific energy, specific power (600A peak for quick
acceleration vs. 300A posted),
The Valence site lists the continuous discharge as 150 amps with a 30 second
peak of 300 amps for the U24-12XP batteries.
http://www.valence.com/pdffiles/U-Charge%20XP%20DS%20Jan06.pdf
Did you get different information?
Part of the reason we went with Kokam was the superior max discharge: 500
amp continuous, 800 amps peak. The 300 amps / 600 amps would not be bad for
normal road use but 150 amps / 300 amps was pretty limiting.
<Valence has superior thermal stability>
I'm not sure what you mean by thermal stability. Could you post some more
information?
<and cycle life so I chose them.>
What figures do they give on cycle life? I see on the spec sheet that at 45
degrees C, discharge rate of C/2 which is 50 amps, that they seem to hit
about 80% of capacity at 600 cycles. The graph does not say if these are
100% discharges or 80% discharges.
The 25 degrees C graph is still at 95% at 600 cycles. This is just about the
same as the cycle life for the new Kokam's.
http://www.kokam.com/english/product/kokam_Lipo_01.html.
The Kokam graph is for 100% discharge at 1C which is 100 amps instead of 50
amps. It is also at 25 degrees C. It goes out to over 1,400 cycles. At 600
cycles it is about 95% of capacity. By 1,400 cycles it gets pretty close to
80%.
If the discharge is only to 80% of capacity, then the Kokam cells still have
95% of capacity at 2,000 cycles.
The part I like most about the Valence is that they include a BMS system.
Can you tell us more about the BMS? How does it work? What does it display?
< I will report back with my results once I'm on the road.>
I look forward to reading them.
Cliff
www.ProEV.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Doug,
< I have bought and received 6 of their UEV-18 XP 19.2V, 65 A-hr. batteries
for my Prius plug-in hybrid conversion.>
Another Lithium pioneer! Have you installed the modules yet? Do you have
website?
<and good current output capability>
What current can you pull from the UEV-18 XP's?
Cliff
www.ProEV.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Paul,
< I'm sure I had a phone discussion with the pople involved. They were very
ignorant at the time. They had no idea how to get a vehicle registered and
did not know about unsprun weight. The wheel motors weigh 18Kg each.
Do you know anything else about the motors? They seem to be PML motors
(http://pmlflightlink.com/motors/wheelmotors.html)?
PML most powerful motor seems to be the EW 30/60. It lists continuous torque
as 160 Nm (118 lbf-ft).
The car blurb says:
High Power Wheels
160 bhp (120kw) each wheel = 640bhp total
750Nm per wheel = 3000Nm total braking/acceleration torque
HI - Pa Drive technology
A new motor? Or a new marketing director?
Cliff
www.ProEV.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Maybe the units got mixed up? Their pdf spec download shows 640 nm of
torque, but only 14.4 kW.
--- ProEV <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> ...
> Do you know anything else about the motors? They seem to be PML
> motors
> <http://pmlflightlink.com/motors/wheelmotors.html>
>
> PML most powerful motor seems to be the EW 30/60. It lists
> continuous torque
> as 160 Nm (118 lbf-ft).
>
> The car blurb says:
>
> High Power Wheels
> 160 bhp (120kw) each wheel = 640bhp total
> 750Nm per wheel = 3000Nm total braking/acceleration torque
> HI - Pa Drive technology
>
> A new motor? Or a new marketing director?
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
10 columns of LEDs, 9 LEDs of red/yellow/green per column:
http://www.goldmine-elec-products.com/prodinfo.asp?number=G15918
only $5. Potential!
Danny
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If it is not being to personal what did the
12 U24-12XP batteries and a U-BMS-XP-HV battery management unit.
cost.
I looked at the U27-12XP, but have no point of reference on cost.
Thanks
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of ProEV
Sent: Monday, July 03, 2006 3:34 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Valence Technology Batteries
Hi Chris,
It is great to hear from another person who is going to run Lithium cells.
We are very happy with our Kokam's but want to hear more about what is
available.
>I ordered 12 U24-12XP batteries and a U-BMS-XP-HV
> battery management unit. I just received the BMS, and
> my batteries ship this week from China. They are
> pricey, but on paper they meet my specific needs --
> specific energy, specific power (600A peak for quick
> acceleration vs. 300A posted),
The Valence site lists the continuous discharge as 150 amps with a 30 second
peak of 300 amps for the U24-12XP batteries.
http://www.valence.com/pdffiles/U-Charge%20XP%20DS%20Jan06.pdf
Did you get different information?
Part of the reason we went with Kokam was the superior max discharge: 500
amp continuous, 800 amps peak. The 300 amps / 600 amps would not be bad for
normal road use but 150 amps / 300 amps was pretty limiting.
<Valence has superior thermal stability>
I'm not sure what you mean by thermal stability. Could you post some more
information?
<and cycle life so I chose them.>
What figures do they give on cycle life? I see on the spec sheet that at 45
degrees C, discharge rate of C/2 which is 50 amps, that they seem to hit
about 80% of capacity at 600 cycles. The graph does not say if these are
100% discharges or 80% discharges.
The 25 degrees C graph is still at 95% at 600 cycles. This is just about the
same as the cycle life for the new Kokam's.
http://www.kokam.com/english/product/kokam_Lipo_01.html.
The Kokam graph is for 100% discharge at 1C which is 100 amps instead of 50
amps. It is also at 25 degrees C. It goes out to over 1,400 cycles. At 600
cycles it is about 95% of capacity. By 1,400 cycles it gets pretty close to
80%.
If the discharge is only to 80% of capacity, then the Kokam cells still have
95% of capacity at 2,000 cycles.
The part I like most about the Valence is that they include a BMS system.
Can you tell us more about the BMS? How does it work? What does it display?
< I will report back with my results once I'm on the road.>
I look forward to reading them.
Cliff
www.ProEV.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Or maybe the car with these numbers doesn't actually exist but rather is a
"mock up" for the auto show; and the numbers given are based on what they
could achieve in theory, given a few years development.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of David Dymaxion
Sent: Tuesday, 4 July 2006 7:36 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Hummmm Look at this. Anyone "seen" one?
Maybe the units got mixed up? Their pdf spec download shows 640 nm of
torque, but only 14.4 kW.
--- ProEV <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> ...
> Do you know anything else about the motors? They seem to be PML
> motors
> <http://pmlflightlink.com/motors/wheelmotors.html>
>
> PML most powerful motor seems to be the EW 30/60. It lists
> continuous torque
> as 160 Nm (118 lbf-ft).
>
> The car blurb says:
>
> High Power Wheels
> 160 bhp (120kw) each wheel = 640bhp total
> 750Nm per wheel = 3000Nm total braking/acceleration torque
> HI - Pa Drive technology
>
> A new motor? Or a new marketing director?
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mike - hey, thanks for posting the charts. It is **extremely** helpful to see
how the battery and motor voltage and current works in a "real world" vehicle
on acceleration. I have one question: it looks like your batteries sag down
to 9 volts (or lower) on full acceleration. Have you had any problems with
taking them down that low?
MIKE & PAULA WILLMON <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I got my clutch changed on
Saturday night. 100% ceramic disc holds really well now. So... I had a little
time and pulled some data on 0-45 mph and 0-60 mph runs. 1 each starting in
2nd and shifting to 3rd...and 1 each starting right from 3rd. You can see the
FasTrack outputs at http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/756. Just a note on the
high motor voltage anomaly. Otmar confirms it is most likely an un-calibrated
resistor value in the motor voltage sense circuitry. Although he never
intended for the DAQ functions to be user accessible I find them very useful.
On my controller the motor voltage reads 53% higher than actual. You can see
on the graphs when the Duty Cycle reaches 100%. My assumption is that when
that happens the motor and battery voltage are the same, as well as motor and
battery current. Anyway, for what its worth I'll leave these plots up on the
EVAlbum for a while. On future plots I'll post process the
motor voltages down to actaul values.
Mike
Anchorage, AK.
---------------------------------
Sneak preview the all-new Yahoo.com. It's not radically different. Just
radically better.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Maybe the units got mixed up? Their pdf spec download shows 640 nm of
> torque, but only 14.4 kW.
>
Having a 40lb motor in each wheel seems like it would cause a problem
with sprung weight.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Cliff,
Another Lithium pioneer! Have you installed the modules yet? Do you have
website?
Yup, 2 EVs with Thunder Sky (hybrid battery packs with AGM, now one as I am
testing Sacred Sun 8V batteries in the pickup & now Valence for the PHEV,
where higher current, relative to A-hr. rating, is required.
The UEV-18 XP have not been installed yet, except for a trial fit. I am
waiting on 2 key components: eCycle boost converter and Delta-Q charger,
before I really plunge in and start the installation.
No website, sorry. Maybe one day....
What current can you pull from the UEV-18 XP's?
150A continuous and 300 A for 30 seconds, not too bad for 65A-hr batteries.
I expect to be drawing about 90A continuous. They can be paralleled for
more current and A-hr. if needed. There is with this series a built-in BMS
in each battery, communicating via CAN to the common U-BMS module to
interact with the vehicle, control contactors, etc.
Best regards,
Doug
----- Original Message -----
From: "ProEV" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Monday, July 03, 2006 4:11 PM
Subject: Re: Prius PHEV, was Re: Valence Technology Batteries
Hi Doug,
< I have bought and received 6 of their UEV-18 XP 19.2V, 65 A-hr.
batteries for my Prius plug-in hybrid conversion.>
Another Lithium pioneer! Have you installed the modules yet? Do you have
website?
<and good current output capability>
What current can you pull from the UEV-18 XP's?
Cliff
www.ProEV.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
True... unless distances are increased. These lines could allow the (future)
deregulated Bonneville to charge current power users billions, so energy can
be pumped to CA's independently owned utility companies. Then we could all
enjoy unified rates... set at CA's current rate structure.
That should be worth spending a few billion bucks on. (Right now, the NW has
low energy costs because it's too expensive to ship it over huge distances.)
For a synopsis, check our President's speeches about the necessity of
privatizing Bonneville, and/or making its rates "market standard."
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Westlund" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Monday, July 03, 2006 6:35 AM
Subject: Re: Scientific American Grid Article
> Delivering electricity from power plant to your home is
> about 92% efficient(It does vary a bit). Power lines are the
> least of the losses.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yes, the system in the article would cover greater distances than the
current system, which is one of the advantages mentioned, including avoiding
blackouts by being able to ship energy from one distant locale to another.
Second, the proposed system would be DC, not AC, to take advantage of the
superconducting capability. Third, the article did indeed recommend running
the new system underground, using some of the newer digging technologies
which reduce the cost of burrowing. Plus, the authors recommend a gradual
phase-in, spanning 25 years or more.
It's probably worth a read, if only to get the full picture rather than rely
on my sketchy synopsis here. I'm not arguing for or against it.
Bill Dennis
--- End Message ---
