EV Digest 5715
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Sporty, practical=lightweight, long range EV
by Doug Weathers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) RE: Advancing CW was Rattling noise, lurching motion
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Calling All EV'rs in the Fresno Area
by "Marc Michon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: simotion charger?
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: EV Grin!!!!!!!!
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: The Wrightspeed X1, a different class of car. (WAS Want to build a
sporty EV
by Doug Weathers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: EVs hit Fark
by Mike Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: dc motor
by "torich1" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) OT: Bitsushiti, was: Re: Burned Sparrow motor
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) RE: simotion charger?
by "Lawrie, Robin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) RE: simotion charger?
by "Lawrie, Robin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Electric Vehicles in the news
by Mike Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) More on SepEx
by Steve Powers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) High Tech EV conversion on BMW Mini displayed at London Motorshow
by Geoff Linkleter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Who Killed the Electric Car
by "Pestka, Dennis J" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) RE: High Tech EV conversion on BMW Mini displayed at London Motorshow
by "Lawrie, Robin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: High Tech EV conversion on BMW Mini displayed at London Motorshow
by "Kaido Kert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: In progress EV question
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Evan's regen
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
20) RE: dc motor
by Staffanson Brian J Civ 309 EMXG/QPE <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) RE: Air cond, regen, better EV, was Re: SepEx Feasibility-
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: The Wrightspeed X1, a different class of car. (WAS Want to build a
sporty EV)
by Mike Phillips <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) X1 doing 11.9 1/4 mile video (was The Wrightspeed X1, a different class of
car.)
by Mike Phillips <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) RE: In progress EV question
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: X1 doing 11.9 1/4 mile video (was The Wrightspeed X1, a different
class of car.)
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: X1 doing 11.9 1/4 mile video (was The Wrightspeed X1, a different
class of c
by "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) RE: Air cond, regen, better EV, was Re: SepEx Feasibility-
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: X1 doing 11.9 1/4 mile video (was The Wrightspeed X1, a different
class of car.)
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) Prius 42MPH Limit Was: Air cond, regen, better EV
by Chet Fields <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
On Aug 1, 2006, at 2:03 PM, Wayne wrote:
On 8/1/06, Doug Weathers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
How much range do you think you need? Followed by the next question,
how much range do you REALLY, ACTUALLY need?
This would be a second vehicle for me, and mostly a fun project. As I
stated
I'd like to modify a Suzuki Samurai into an hybrid as I know fully
electric
will not work for me as I need several hundred miles of range. It
would need
to drive from my house loaded with camping gear, out to the local
mountains
and desert via busy freeways. Once there it will be exploring on the
dirt
roads and trails.
OK. So the "benefit" is playing offroad in an EV. Your proposed
"feature" is an offroad EV that can drive all the way from your house
to the mountains. You have correctly decided that this is not
practical, so you've started thinking about making a hybrid.
You can get the same benefit in other ways. Here is a quick list of
possibilities, to give you some idea of the way I'm thinking.
- Build a pure EV offroad vehicle, like Rod Wilde's Lectro Rover.
<http://www.evparts.com/about/index.php?show=rover.ihtml>
Then, in order to play with it offroad, do one of the following:
- Trailer it to the playground, charge it with a genset. Or solar, or
wind, or hydro, or a combination.
- Leave it at a nearby farm, drive out when you want to play with it.
- Build a pusher trailer for it.
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pusher_trailer> Unhitch it when you get
to the playground. Drive electric.
This sounds like a fun project, and will introduce a lot of new
challenges
to the build.
There's a good reason to do it right there!
It would be great if I could have a cleaner vehicle that also
returned better fuel economy and better power while offroad. I think
the
electric hybrid will do well in this area.
As others have written, not necessarily.
Speaking only for myself, and no offense meant, but I get a little
riled up when someone complains that EVs aren't practical because they
can't do something unreasonable that the speaker wants them to do. No,
a battery-powered offroad vehicle that can drive from your house to
Moab and back isn't yet practical, but that doesn't mean that other
possible EVs aren't practical.
My favorite analogy is the microwave oven vs. the conventional oven.
"Tell me sir, do you have a microwave oven? Really? Why on earth
would you want one of those? It can't bake bread, it can't brown meat,
it can't even cook a Thanksgiving turkey!" Because for 90% of the
cooking tasks of 90% of the populace, the microwave oven is a better
and more efficient solution.
Thanks all,
-Wayne
--
Doug Weathers
Las Cruces, NM, USA
<http://learn-something.blogsite.org/>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jim Husted wrote:
> Couple of things, first the motor brushes and comm look
> fine.
Jim, I'm not sure if I browsed far enough through Judebert's webpage,
but the comm/brush pics I saw were, I think, taken *before* the motor
was installed in his EV and began exhibiting the rattling/lurching
behaviour under power.
I wonder if it wouldn't be a good idea to pop the cover and have another
peek at the brushes and comm now, just to confirm that they are not
showing signs of arcing or other damage now that they've had a bit of
use running backwards?
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
try [EMAIL PROTECTED]
thats a zero
or call 243 1912
have them people call me
cool
Marco
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Shanab" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2006 7:22 PM
Subject: Calling All EV'rs in the Fresno Area
An Arrangement has been made with the UA-8 in Clovis for the opening
weekend of aug 4th and 5th(yes this weekend) to show our EV's during the
premier of "Who Killed the Electric car ".
Thanks go out to Heather Bernikoff and David Raboy for following thru
and makeing this a reality. (I just changed jobs and got swamped
lately). They got lobby time and stuff to hand out.
Mark, I know you got the motor cycle, but I Can't seem to send you
emails.
Anyone else in the area? (or driving thru the area :-; )
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lawrie, Robin wrote:
Ive just taken delivery of a nice siemens ac drive courtesy of rich
bebbington (cheers for driving that down!) for use in a fiat 500
conversion (coincidence!) now all I need is to save the vast amount of
money needed for my 70 kg, 12 kw/hr kokam pack...
Congrats!
Trying to keep the final weight below 700 kg, so I end up with a pretty
perky car (5x the torque 4x the power, and below 200 kg extra to carry.)
Anyway, Ive been thinking about regen, and the idea of using the
inverter as a charger... is there any way to hack a simotion inverter to
provide charging abilities? If not a nice pfc-20 is on the shopping list
too.
Sure. Raise the front, spin the wheels externally and put it
in the regen mode. After couple of hours of spinning, you're done.
Seriously, if you feed it from the motor side with [stepped down]
3 phase from the mains and fool the inverter with proper encoder pulses
emulator so it thinks that real motor is connected, and you engage regen
mode, it will "charge". But regenning inverter is NOT a charger.
It cannot follow any charging profiles or be controlled in a "normal"
manner, not to mention it cannot be connected to a BMS mandatory for
your proposed Kokam cells. Get a decent charger, you won't regret it.
Granted, you loose all warranty on the inverter if you attempt to
convert it to a charger, even if technically it might be made to
function.
Also, the 1PV5105WS12 motor is rated at 18 kw sustained, and 25 kw for 2
mins (if I remember correctly), but according to the performance
calculator at metricmind, it should provide a peak of 85 kw. Which is
correct? Is this limited by the inverter? (rated at 100kw)
I expect this is aimed at victor...
This motor limiting the power unlike other motors where
inverter is at limit.
The max power depends on the voltage, but the 25kW figure
for 2 min is certainly incorrect. Duration also depends
on the cooling. What voltage are you planning to run at?
Victor
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ricky Suiter wrote:
You think you have a big EV Grin now, just wait until you open a box
with a Zilla in it. I think my leg started shaking when I got my
Zilla.
Otmar, does your business have good insurance?...
Victor
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Aug 1, 2006, at 2:38 PM, Death to All Spammers wrote:
Also: In the interview with Wright that I posted today, Ian says he
drives it all the time in California. Is it safe to presume it is
street legal there as well?
It's probably different for a hand-made, single copy car.
No, it's not a hand-made, single copy car, unless every EV conversion
is also a hand-made single copy car. The X1 is a conversion of an
existing car, the Ariel Atom.
<http://www.arielmotor.co.uk/04/frames.htm>
--
Doug Weathers
Las Cruces, NM, USA
<http://learn-something.blogsite.org/>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The first part of the comments seem pretty typical of what you'd expect, but
later down the thread there are some pretty decent
posts from EV'ers out there.
It seems to be getting some people thinking :-)
Laugh at stupid Farkers:
http://forums.fark.com/cgi/fark/comments.pl?IDLink=2203644
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It was an old GE motor I got it from the late "Jack" in New England and
there was a problem with brushes plus over heat plus poor mileage. prolly
about 15 miles with 120 volts if that. Always something going wrong. I was
afraid to drive it very far. Thats why I want a good motor the next Time. I
drive a Honda "ICE" 1988 which gets better than 30 miles per in town with
air and 45 on the road with out air.
This is hard to beat with an elect vech.
Rich in Virginia
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jimmy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2006 12:35 AM
Subject: RRe: dc motor
Rich,
What size motor is the GE? I have a Ghia and a sandbuggy both have the
9inch GE. It sure is a strong motor (ok it is heavy) and bullet proof. I
would suggest a 9 inch motor since it would be able to take what most
controllers can deliver. Do you plan to use a clutch or direct drive?
Jimmy
https://www.dm3electrics.com/
I have 1970 convertible in th garage with 84,000 orig miles just waitin
for
me to finish it. paintin and such.. I put a ge motor in my 72 vw with a
curtis 1221 but didnt like it. motor to old.. Rich from virginia
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2006 6:41 PM
Subject: Re: dc motor
>
> On Jul 31, 2006, at 6:23 PM, torich1 wrote:
>
>> What is the best dc motor for a 1970 VW bug 72
>>
>> to 120 volts?
>>
>> Thanks Rich in Virginia
>
> Best motor? Not a real simple question but I would suggest the
Advanced
> DC 8 inch series motor available from most of the EV suppliers, or an
> equivalent Warp 8 inch motor. If you don't want a freeway capable
vehicle
> the motor could be smaller. If you want that Bug to go 100mph you may
want
> to think larger (the aircooled Beetle is less aerodynamic than the VW
> Bus.)
>
> I'm a big Bug fan. I've owned 1/2 dozen of them. The newest is the
1964
> frame that carries my EV buggy body down the road. I've considered
> building up another gasser Bug with the 55 mpg 1415cc engine.
>
> Paul G.
>
>
>
--
No virus found in this incoming message.
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Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.5/404 - Release Date: 7/31/2006
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 10:33 PM 1/08/06 -0600, David Hawkins wrote:
My wife and I had a Plymouth Champ, which was our first "new" car, back
around the 1980 gas price spike. Same as the Colt and made by Mitsubishi
for Chrapster Motors. They were Japanese disposable junk,
G'day David - and all
Around here, often referred to as "Bitsoshiti", in the words of my mechanic
"Mitsubishi *ignition* systems are reliable" (for those that this may be
obscure to, everything else isn't).
But it seems that the commercial vehicles come from a different design team
and a different factory, Misu's commercial stuff seems not too bad.
Back to the EVs...
I met someone today who's built 8 EVs, talking about these DC motors he's
using now that he can carry under one arm and gets a full-size EV up to
135km/h no problem (I'm finding out more and will report back).
[Technik] James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bearing in mind the price of the kokams, the final voltage is likely to
be based on a combination of how fast I can save, how fast the price
falls, and how long I can bear to wait. (it's a complex formula) Im
thinking somewhere between 60 and 80 of the 40 ah cells giving between
222 and 296v nominal, at up to 400A. ive been given an "ok" price by
kokam, but I think they've actually put their prices up a bit since I
last inquired..
Haha..i like the charging idea. Build a little ramp I can reverse up
when I get home, and a couple of old running machines.... bingo!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
To nikki: rich actually drove the ac drive all the way to london for
me... (good man!) so if im ever up in Bristol ill get in touch! Don't
expect ill have an ev to bring for a good year or two yet though.. it
appears ive decided to do it the most expensive way possible...
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of nikki
Sent: 01 August 2006 20:07
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: simotion charger?
Robin,
Let me know how you get on with that. I'm not too far from Rich
myself so would be interested to see how it works out.
Cheers,
Nikki.
P.S. If you're down in Bristol any time pop along to the next BEVOB
meet :)
On 1 Aug 2006, at 11:13, Lawrie, Robin wrote:
> Ive just taken delivery of a nice siemens ac drive courtesy of rich
> bebbington (cheers for driving that down!) for use in a fiat 500
> conversion (coincidence!) now all I need is to save the vast amount of
> money needed for my 70 kg, 12 kw/hr kokam pack...
>
> Trying to keep the final weight below 700 kg, so I end up with a
> pretty
> perky car (5x the torque 4x the power, and below 200 kg extra to
> carry.)
>
> Anyway, Ive been thinking about regen, and the idea of using the
> inverter as a charger... is there any way to hack a simotion
> inverter to
> provide charging abilities? If not a nice pfc-20 is on the shopping
> list
> too.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I was interviewed by a local ABC channel 13 news reporter a couple days ago and
they played the clip tonight on the 6 O'clock
news. http://www.aksuperstation.com/news/local/3472226.html
If someone on the list can figure out how to save it feel free to move it to
youTube. I was unable to get it to save but don't
have time righ now to play with it. Off fishing for the next 3 days, the
silvers are running:-) I did have a couple guys at the
office who said they'd get it on DVR and TiVo so maybe I can get a decent
digital copy to post long after its gone from the news
site.
All in all I think it was pretty positive. Bianca came up with all those
calculations herself. I did however give her a printout
of my EValbum page along with a bunch of links. The one question I should have
prep'd her with a come back for was the "How long
will it take to pay back the investment". The real answer is never. Shaa, As
if a car will write you a check every month. My
standard answer is alot less time than it will take your $12k used gas car (or
$30K new) to pay itself back. The battle to save
money is always a war of attrition $$$.
I agreed to burn the tires for them but they agreed that it probably wouldn't
be prudent in the residential neighborhood, on
camera. Aye.
Mike,
AL1D
Anchorage, Ak.
p.s. from this site back out to the main page http://www.aksuperstation.com/
and lets slam the poll question of the week. "Would
you spend a lot of money on an electric-powered vehicle, if it could save even
more in the future?"
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ah the SepEx motor once again. I am one of the few on the list who not only
had it in one EV, but two EV's. SepEx can be great. It can give you good
performance over a wide range of RPM's. You can build a single speed
(shiftless) vehicle. I'd say (although I've never compared them directly) that
it can give performance similar to an AC system - assuming they have the same
power rating. The old EV books say they are as good performance-wise as the
compound wound motors used in EVs at the turn of the century (the 1900's that
is).
Now the bad news on SepEx controllers ... They are not supported. They are
very difficult to work on. They have to be tuned for your particular motor.
When they quit on you (as all things electric ultimately will do after 25 or
more ... years of neglect), you will be in a real mess! I know because I have
been there ... twice!!! And, I never want to go back there again. I'd love to
have the performance and features of my old ETV-1 (see the EV album). I'd
drive it every day if I could have got it running correctly. But that
contraption of a "controller" that I built for it never matched the performance
of the one that GE spent millions on. So, in the end like most everyone else,
I opted for a series motor in car #3. Car #4, I got a used motor and sure
enough, I was back to SepEx. This time, I tried about everything ... dual
controllers ... Really, unless you are an expert in controller design and know
how to match that motor to your custom controller, I think
you are in for a major headache. It would be less expensive to buy a well
supported AC system. Or simply do what I have done and go back to series wound
DC. Cheap and dirty.
In the end it all comes down to sustainability and cost. The cost for SepEx
can be low, but you have to be an expert. And, unless you are an expert, it
definately won't be sustainable - unless it goes mainstream.
Steve
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi, I'm new to the list.
I thought this might be of interest. It's not very new news but it
doesn't seem to have been posted.
http://www.pmlflightlink.com/pdfs/mini_qed1.pdf
The British company PML Flightlink have displayed an EV conversion
based on BMW's Mini as a technology demonstrator at the London
Motorshow. See link.
The spec makes interesting reading:
Motor: 4 x 160 HP 1800rpm in wheel motors (Brushless 24 phase water
cooled) total 640 HP
Contoler: 4x 480Amp 450 Volt water cooled
Battery: Lithium Polymer 300V, 70AHr, 700AMP max
Ultracapacitor: 350V, 11 Farad, 700AMP limit
Full regenerative braking: No mechanical brakes!
Dynamic traction control
Performance claimed: 0--->60 under 4.5 seconds. Top speed 140mph.
Range: 4 hours and it has a 15 kW parallel hybrid gas engine which
extends range to 600 miles
They claim to have chosen a Mini as the basis since it is "hard to do"
and if they can convert it they can convert anything!
Regards
Geoff
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have a copy of a 1992 article in Discovery Magazine on the design of
the Impact (EV1) by Paul MacCready and his company AeroVironment.
With the recent release of the movie, Who Killed the Electric Car, I
thought some people might enjoy reading this.
Some may not even be aware of Aerovironments involvement in its'
original design.
If someone can give me a place to post it, I would be happy to send it
to you.
Hopefully this is not breaking some copy write law.
Dennis
Elsberry, MO
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
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------_=_NextPart_001_01C6B624.CAF223CF"
Subject: Who Killed the Electric Car
Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2006 06:14:16 -0500
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Thread-Topic: Who Killed the Electric Car
Thread-Index: Aca0qtp2xxpArFz8QTWJjnaiAZVnpQBeSh6Q
From: "Pestka, Dennis J" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EV Discussion Group--
Content-class: urn:content-classes:message
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="us-ascii"
Subject: RE: High Tech EV conversion on BMW Mini displayed at London Motorshow
Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2006 13:51:30 +0100
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: "Lawrie, Robin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
It was featured on the list a few weeks ago, but no-one seems to have
seen it at the motor show, and as far as I can see its just a proof of
concept.. Be nice to see it driven.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Geoff Linkleter
Sent: 02 August 2006 12:44
To: EV Discussion List
Subject: High Tech EV conversion on BMW Mini displayed at London
Motorshow
Hi, I'm new to the list.
I thought this might be of interest. It's not very new news but it
doesn't seem to have been posted.
http://www.pmlflightlink.com/pdfs/mini_qed1.pdf
The British company PML Flightlink have displayed an EV conversion
based on BMW's Mini as a technology demonstrator at the London
Motorshow. See link.
The spec makes interesting reading:
Motor: 4 x 160 HP 1800rpm in wheel motors (Brushless 24 phase water
cooled) total 640 HP
Contoler: 4x 480Amp 450 Volt water cooled
Battery: Lithium Polymer 300V, 70AHr, 700AMP max
Ultracapacitor: 350V, 11 Farad, 700AMP limit
Full regenerative braking: No mechanical brakes!
Dynamic traction control
Performance claimed: 0--->60 under 4.5 seconds. Top speed 140mph.
Range: 4 hours and it has a 15 kW parallel hybrid gas engine which
extends range to 600 miles
They claim to have chosen a Mini as the basis since it is "hard to do"
and if they can convert it they can convert anything!
Regards
Geoff
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2006 15:39:30 +0300
From: "Kaido Kert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: High Tech EV conversion on BMW Mini displayed at London Motorshow
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline
There was an autoblog post regarding this with actual pictures
http://www.autoblog.com/2006/07/21/pml-s-mini-qed-boasts-640-in-wheel-electric-horsepower/
-kert
On 8/2/06, Geoff Linkleter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi, I'm new to the list.
>
> I thought this might be of interest. It's not very new news but it
> doesn't seem to have been posted.
>
> http://www.pmlflightlink.com/pdfs/mini_qed1.pdf
>
> The British company PML Flightlink have displayed an EV conversion
> based on BMW's Mini as a technology demonstrator at the London
> Motorshow. See link.
>
> The spec makes interesting reading:
>
> Motor: 4 x 160 HP 1800rpm in wheel motors (Brushless 24 phase water
> cooled) total 640 HP
>
> Contoler: 4x 480Amp 450 Volt water cooled
>
> Battery: Lithium Polymer 300V, 70AHr, 700AMP max
>
> Ultracapacitor: 350V, 11 Farad, 700AMP limit
>
> Full regenerative braking: No mechanical brakes!
>
> Dynamic traction control
>
> Performance claimed: 0--->60 under 4.5 seconds. Top speed 140mph.
>
> Range: 4 hours and it has a 15 kW parallel hybrid gas engine which
> extends range to 600 miles
>
> They claim to have chosen a Mini as the basis since it is "hard to do"
> and if they can convert it they can convert anything!
>
> Regards
> Geoff
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Get a spam free email account - Visit http://www.bluebottle.com
>
>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Subject: Re: In progress EV question
Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2006 07:35:51 -0600
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Hello John,
You did not mention what type of motor you have. Some motors have expose
field bolts on the surface of the motor like the Warp motors and the GE
motors have flush field bolts.
My GE 11 motor has bolt holes tap right into the side of the motor, that
fits a standard GM engine mounts, which mounts to the same cross member that
a engine bolts too.
I use a Warp 9 motor while I put the GE 11 in maintenance. The 9-7/8 inch
diameter Warp 9 (measure to the OD at the field bolts) require me to custom
make a clam shell bracket that can mount over these field bolts and slide
back and forth for adjustment.
The standard clam shell units can only be fix in one place, with narrow
bands that fit between the field bolts. This position of the clam shell
would not a line up with the existing engine mounts and was too narrow
anyway.
So, I went to a steel yard and have them cut 5 inch off a 10 gage 10 inch OD
pipe tubing. The inside diameter is 9-3/4 inch in diameter. I know from
experience, that when you cut this tubing in half to make a clam shell, that
it will spring wider than the measure inside diameter.
I than cut two 1-1/4 segments out of the tubing at 180 degrees from each
other and weld on 1-inch tabs that were also 5 inches long with two bolt
holes for clamping around the motor.
Placing the clam shell on the motor, which sets on top of the field bolts,
you will find that this mounting band is about 1/4 inch away from the main
body of the motor, so I welded in 1/4 x 1/4 inch square rod which I roll to
fit inside the clam shell. I welded one rod on both edges and one down the
center missing the field bolts.
This makes the clam shell look 3/8-inch thick heavy duty industrial looking.
I then can weld on a thick steel spacer with tap bolt holes, that fits my
existing engine mounts.
I found out later, that I could have went with a Warp 11, and have NetGain
tap the side of the motor to fit the engine mounts.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "John" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2006 7:27 PM
Subject: In progress EV question
> As the responsible party for one of the, in progress, projects on the
> album (#791) I'm looking for input. I created a basic web page where I
> can post some pictures and question.
>
> http://webpages.charter.net/belchertownev/
>
> Motor mounting is my next big step. As it states on the page:
> "My thought is to create a bracket attaching to the stock motor mounts.
> I had planned on fabricating two "plates" that would be bolted to the
> engine mounts, then have short risers welded to the plates. Then a
> horizontal "bar" spanning the distance between the risers. The clam
> shell motor mount would then be bolted to the horizontal bar using
> spacers to fine tune the motor position.
>
> The level in the photo is sitting on the clam shell bracket that is
> supported with wood blocks in approximatly the correct location.
>
> Comments? Suggestions?
>
> I have no welding experience so I will have to find someone to make
> this for me. What guidelines/specifications should I propose to a
> potential fabricator? Does anyone know of a good welder in the Pioneer
> Valley of Massachusetts?
>
>
>
>
Subject: Evan's regen
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2006 08:49:32 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Evan,
I see you have "not properly tested" regen on your car
Could you explain how it should work please? I'm interested to know the
parts you use and how effective regen charge is.
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/103.html
Thanks, Ben
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: Staffanson Brian J Civ 309 EMXG/QPE <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "'ev@listproc.sjsu.edu'" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Subject: RE: dc motor
Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2006 07:23:28 -0600
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
When my bug 1974 was working last year, I was using the Prestolite MTC 4001.
It worked well for me, taking me up to 65 mph, up a hill. I think it was
better than the original gas engine. But due to battery placement problems,
I am not on the road anymore. It was a sad thing. I keep telling myself
that it will work again one day...
Brian
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Paul G.
Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2006 4:41 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: dc motor
On Jul 31, 2006, at 6:23 PM, torich1 wrote:
> What is the best dc motor for a 1970 VW bug 72
>
> to 120 volts?
>
> Thanks Rich in Virginia
Best motor? Not a real simple question but I would suggest the
Advanced DC 8 inch series motor available from most of the EV
suppliers, or an equivalent Warp 8 inch motor. If you don't want a
freeway capable vehicle the motor could be smaller. If you want that
Bug to go 100mph you may want to think larger (the aircooled Beetle is
less aerodynamic than the VW Bus.)
I'm a big Bug fan. I've owned 1/2 dozen of them. The newest is the 1964
frame that carries my EV buggy body down the road. I've considered
building up another gasser Bug with the 55 mpg 1415cc engine.
Paul G.
Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2006 08:09:08 -0600
From: "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: RE: Air cond, regen, better EV, was Re: SepEx Feasibility-
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Message-Id: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Doug Hartley wrote:
>...running the house for the last 3 hours. It is handy having EV-size
>battery power
Funny you should mention power outages, Doug. We had one storm-induced one
here on Salt Lake City last night, too. Since the battery and cigar lighter
for my conversion were sitting on the workbench, I grabbed them and hooked
them together via a fuse, plugged in a 150W inverter that I use for working
on the computer in the car, and voila!, I had enough power for the two
nightstand lamps to let us read in bed.
Bill Dennis
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2006 07:22:46 -0700 (PDT)
From: Mike Phillips <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: The Wrightspeed X1, a different class of car. (WAS Want to build a
sporty EV)
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
MIME-Version: 1.0
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>
> To be fair, that's not Wrightspeed's fault. A big advantage of the
> ACP drive is "perfect launches" - the tires are at their traction
> limit and stay there until the power output from the controller can
> no
> longer deliver max torque. So when you race any gas vehicle against
> any ACP-powered vehicle, the ACP machine always gets a big start. So
> the guy with the Porsche insisted on a rolling start, to remove this
> "unfair" advantage.
Ian Wright told me face to face that the Porche Carerra GT owner did
not want to put the extra wear caused by a standing start on his clutch
as it was very pricey to replace (MSRP forthcoming). The car itself is
$440,000 without T and L. I can't imagine the clutch being available at
Pep Boys.
It's amazing that the 11.4 sec rated Porche got spanked even with the
advantage of a rolling start. But then again, Porche is known for lying
thru their teeth ;)
>
> > For years now, we've cordially invited the AC Propulsion guys to
> enter
> > one of their machines in a NEDRA EVent...they've never been to one.
> > We've asked for official NHRA timed results....never seen any. I
> have no
> > doubts that if they would, we'd see impressive ETs, but I bet
> they'd
> > fall short of the various claims over the years.
I wonder how many EV drag racers would show up for an efficiency
challenge? LOL!
ACP goes to efficiency challenges as that is what they are designed
for. If there is a nedra event in SoCal maybe we can get ACP to go.
>
> Well, come next year, there is no doubt in my mind that you'll see a
> Tesla at the track. If not several.
We can all hope.
>
> > I wonder what the folks at Wrightspeed behind this promotion
> > (and the same press corp they've courted) would think when the
> $150,000
> > high end skeleton machine fitted with high tech AC power trains,
> high
> > tech batteries, and it's high tech racing chassis, got beat by a
> full
> > bodied old '72 Datsun sedan powered by common lead acid batteries
> > feeding a DC motor, and built in some forklift mechanic's back yard
> shop
> > at 1/10th the cost?
I think if the White Zombie was built for $15k total then I'll take one
too.
One other distinct disadvantage the ACP cars have is that they stop
accelerating well before the end of the 1/4 mile when they reach their
electronic rpm limit.
Mike
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2006 08:12:01 -0700 (PDT)
From: Mike Phillips <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: X1 doing 11.9 1/4 mile video (was The Wrightspeed X1, a different
class of car.)
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
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Here is video of the X1 doing an 11.948 ET at 105 mph. If you believe
the trap monitor ;) Isn't that faster than 12.something? Must only have
a range of 100 miles left after a run like that....
You may have to pause the video at the end to read the times as YouTube
truncated the video a bit. The ET is clearly visable.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvjH4QUtZFo
Mike
Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2006 09:11:09 -0600
From: "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: RE: In progress EV question
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Message-Id: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
If you're not attaching the motor to the tranny, but directly to the CV
joint (via a reducing gear), can the motor be rigidly mounted to the car
chassis instead of to the motor mounts, or is it still a good idea to let
the motor have some play in it by retaining the original motor mounts?
Thanks.
Bill Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Roger Stockton
Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2006 9:51 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: RE: In progress EV question
John wrote:
> I had planned on fabricating two "plates" that would be bolted to the
> engine mounts, then have short risers welded to the plates. Then a
> horizontal "bar" spanning the distance between the risers. The clam
> shell motor mount would then be bolted to the horizontal bar using
> spacers to fine tune the motor position.
This is basically what I did for mine, and it is working great. I also
made the crossmember such that I could mount my motor controller on top
of it, which allowed keeping the controller-to-motor cables as short and
neat as possible.
What I did was cut a pair of plates and bolted them to the stock mounts,
then took a length of heavy wall steel tube about 1.5" in diameter and
cut a couple of notches in it to allow it to be bent into a sort of an
inverted 'U' shape. Then I cut and fitted it so the 'arms' had the
proper lengths and angle on their ends to mate flush with the mounting
plates. In my case, I had the motor installed to the tranny and
supported in the desired position by a floor jack while fabricating the
crossmember, which allowed getting the dimensions right.
If you carefully mark the alignment of the crossmember to the plates,
you should be able to take the 3 pieces to a weldor and have them put
together without bringing the whole vehicle as a jig. I think that in
my case, we tacked the corssmember to the plates while in the vehicle,
then removed them for the weldor to join them up securely.
Good luck,
Roger.
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Subject: Re: X1 doing 11.9 1/4 mile video (was The Wrightspeed X1, a different
class of car.)
Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2006 08:47:53 -0700
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I'm with John on this one..
Little tube framed Ev Hot rod...
Of course it's fast.
Stuff a 8 incher in there and a Zilla 2k.. I bet you can save about $30K and
still go faster.
Folks it not the drive set up that makes or breaks a EV it's the Cost per
Kw, and weather you can produce it.
OR Even intend to.
AC Does not make a Ev supreme. DC is not invinciable.
Untill somebody picks off Dennis Berube With a AC drive... AC is s toy for
the rich boys.
Somebody in that Video needs some real Rubber.. that was tire screach pretty
much the whole way down the track?
right..?
Madman
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2006 8:12 AM
Subject: X1 doing 11.9 1/4 mile video (was The Wrightspeed X1, a different
class of car.)
> Here is video of the X1 doing an 11.948 ET at 105 mph. If you believe
> the trap monitor ;) Isn't that faster than 12.something? Must only have
> a range of 100 miles left after a run like that....
>
> You may have to pause the video at the end to read the times as YouTube
> truncated the video a bit. The ET is clearly visable.
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvjH4QUtZFo
>
> Mike
>
Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2006 15:48:05 -0000
From: "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Mike Phillips <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Subject: Re: X1 doing 11.9 1/4 mile video (was The Wrightspeed X1, a different
class of c
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
By the way the track was wet according to Ian's note.
Mike
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Mike Phillips <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Here is video of the X1 doing an 11.948 ET at 105 mph. If you believe
> the trap monitor ;) Isn't that faster than 12.something? Must only have
> a range of 100 miles left after a run like that....
>
> You may have to pause the video at the end to read the times as YouTube
> truncated the video a bit. The ET is clearly visable.
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvjH4QUtZFo
>
> Mike
>
Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2006 09:05:38 -0600
From: "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: RE: Air cond, regen, better EV, was Re: SepEx Feasibility-
MIME-Version: 1.0
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charset="us-ascii"
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Message-Id: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Doug Hartley wrote:
> start with a Toyota Prius and convert it to plug-in hybrid.
With the kits, the Prius can be kept on all-electric up to 42mph. Is there
anything special about the 42mph mark? Could you hook in a different speed
sensor to fool the Prius into thinking it was going 30mph even though it was
really going 60mph, for example? Or is there something more intrinsic to
the system that would get hurt if you ran in electric-only mode beyond
42mph?
Thanks.
Bill Dennis
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Subject: Re: X1 doing 11.9 1/4 mile video (was The Wrightspeed X1, a different
class of car.)
Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2006 09:18:55 -0700
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=original
Thanks Mike for sharing the video. It is great to see another high
performance EV out there busting the myths of slow EVs. I do however believe
the claim was quicker than any DC powered car. That is almost a whole second
slower than the quickest street bodied car. A second is an incredible amount
of time in drag racing. Ask any drag racer.
Roderick Wilde
"Suck Amps EV Racing"
www.suckamps.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2006 8:12 AM
Subject: X1 doing 11.9 1/4 mile video (was The Wrightspeed X1, a different
class of car.)
> Here is video of the X1 doing an 11.948 ET at 105 mph. If you believe
> the trap monitor ;) Isn't that faster than 12.something? Must only have
> a range of 100 miles left after a run like that....
>
> You may have to pause the video at the end to read the times as YouTube
> truncated the video a bit. The ET is clearly visable.
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvjH4QUtZFo
>
> Mike
>
>
>
>
> --
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>
>
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Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2006 09:17:46 -0700 (PDT)
From: Chet Fields <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Prius 42MPH Limit Was: Air cond, regen, better EV
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
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The Prius can run up to 42 mph with only the electric motors spinning and the
ICE stopped. It then has to start the ICE spinning as the second electric motor
is at it's 10,000 RPM limit. (Because of the way the planetary gears are
connected to the ICE and 2 electric motors)
This spinning can be done and is affectionately called 'warp stealth' by many
Prius enthusiasts. I experience it quite often in my Prius. There is no spark
or fuel, just pumping of the pistons, which basically acts like a spring but
with the obvious friction of the spinning engine.
Chet
--- Bill Dennis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Doug Hartley wrote:
>
> > start with a Toyota Prius and convert it to plug-in hybrid.
>
> With the kits, the Prius can be kept on all-electric up to 42mph. Is there
> anything special about the 42mph mark? Could you hook in a different speed
> sensor to fool the Prius into thinking it was going 30mph even though it was
> really going 60mph, for example? Or is there something more intrinsic to
> the system that would get hurt if you ran in electric-only mode beyond
> 42mph?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Bill Dennis
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