EV Digest 5742
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: questions from a newbie
by "Ron Reid" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) RE: S10 Truck, 2V1 postal? van
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) RE: You know you're a list member when...
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) RE: Discharge load?
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: questions from a newbie
by "Matt Kenigson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: questions from a newbie
by "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Science Channel Shows NEDRA Power of DC Race
by Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) RE: 93 Toyota p/u Acceleration
by Mike Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: S10 Truck, 2V1 postal? van
by "Matt Kenigson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: S10 Truck, 2V1 postal? van
by "Michael Mohlere" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: EV1: 12 mile range?
by Matthew Younkins <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: EV1: 12 mile range?
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Happy with Cut Fingers
by "Mark E. Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Tranny swap, was: Re: S10 Truck, 2V1 postal? van
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: My ICE Costs
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: questions from a newbie
by "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Batteries are a sleep
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Geoff,
My main practical obstacle to building an ev myself is not motivation , it's
space which comes at a premium in the UK - it's a crowded island! I am
hooked on the idea now. Apart from the obvious environmental reasons for EV,
petrol (gas) costs about $7.5 per gal in the UK! Most of this is made up of
fuel tax. EV's are at least twice as efficient as ICE and circumvent both
the fuel tax as well as the road tax in the UK.
WKtEC has not hit the circuit in the UK yet but I know the jist of the
story. I think the entrenched oil & car manufacture hegemony shown in WKtEC
is worse in the UK because of the amount of revenue the government raises in
fuel tax. This was done ostensibly to discourage drivers from using their
cars and encourage them on to public transport. No-one can tell me that the
government is not addicted to this revenue source and whilst paying lip
service to the environment will place whatever obstacles in the way of mass
production EV's to protect this revenue. All politicians by definition are
lying thieving corrupt bastards! The desire to be a politician should
automaticaly ban you from ever becoming one!
My rant for the day but I guess I'm preaching to the converted.
Ron
----- Original Message -----
From: "Geoff Linkleter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EV Discussion List" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 5:13 PM
Subject: questions from a newbie
Ron, 2 thoughts
(i) In my (limited) experience the cost of batteries is significantly
higher in the UK than is often talked about on the list.
(ii) If you are not really keen on building an ev I would have thought the
best choice would be to look for a Citroen Berlingo or Saxo EV. Either of
these would just about meet your performance rerquirements and they
occasionally appear for sale, even on e-bay. There are several people on
the list who can help you support one.
You could even think about looking for one in France, where they are more
common, if you could live with LHD. Phillipe could probably help.
Geoff
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mike,
Two more data points to consider:
Extended cab versions do come with the same frame length as a
normal cab, long bed. You can mount the same length of battery
box, only it will need to go further under the cab.
Not a problem if you run maintenance free batteries.
There are indeed many long beds, automatic transmission on Ebay.
You could swap the transmission.
Dependent on your setup you may need the control of the
manual transmission, though in my US Electricar the automatic
(steering column) control is present and it's only function is
to drop a parking pawl in the starter ring (I think) and to make
different switch contacts for the P-R-N-D.
The transmission is a manual, without stick, locked in 2nd gear.
Success,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Michaela Merz
Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 11:36 AM
To: Michael Mohlere
Cc: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: S10 Truck, 2V1 postal? van
Mike:
I do own a regular cab long bed S-10 with manual transmission. See at
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/693.html
So - they do exist :)
Michaela
> All -
>
> I have tried in vain to locate a chevy s10, regular cab, long bed (has
> longer wheel base by about 8 inches), manual tranny truck to convert - I'm
> about convinced they do not exist, as the only ones I have seen (reg cab,
> long bed) have automatic transmissions. Thinking I will stick to reg cab,
> short bed, as they are fairly plentiful.
>
> ** Curious if anyone on the list has seen or owns a reg cab, long bed,
> manual transmission S10.
>
> ** Also, a friend of a friend owns a "2V1" (postal?) van...anyone heard of
> this animal? Is it, or the guts of it worth anything???
>
> Thx, Mike
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jim,
It was clear to me from the beginning that this was all tongue-in-cheek,
heck - this type of you-know-that-you-.... is so common in many internet
circles, these jokes go back a long time and many have grown beards by now.
You made a nice and quite funny list, too close to the truth to be
comfortable and clearly enough tongue-in-cheek to be funny,
in other words: thanks for a great joke.
I think this one deserves to be archived and updated from time to time.
Cheers,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Jim Husted
Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 6:22 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: You know you're a list member when...
James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
You see a big old broken, oily motor at a junk yard and HAVE to take it
home... then wish the freight to Redmond, Oregon, wasn't so prohibitively
high....
Hey James
You know James they give you a hundred Lbs. of luggage weight per person
when you fly. We brought back 150 lbs. of fish from my Alaska trip and
didn't dent our max. So if you EVer fly out for the Nationals bring mates,
or is that bloats, and you just pack some motor parts back with you, no
freight, hehehe. Three mates will get you two nines, lmao, heck pay for the
trip, hehe 8^ P
On a different note, (although no hate mail yet) I've been informed by
some that my first entry with this thread skated on some very thin ice.
Words like I cringed, and I gasped were used to describe certain areas of
the content. I'd like to take this moment to make a Mel Gibson like apology
to the following if I have offended you.
The Gieco Lizard, Otmar, the EverReady bunny, Rudman, Bob Rice, Trains,
Wayland, Anyone who can spell, Hooters, ACDC the band, Gone Postal, The US
mail service, Lawless Ind., Mormans EVerywhere, This list and all who sent
the 1400 emails, make that 2800 emails, Semi-trucks, The entire state of
Florida, Drag Times, The entire Continent of Australia, and Prius.
I had so much fun with this, I hope at least a few enjoyed it, as all
tongue and cheek. One last fun fact is, I've done as many if not more
motors for Florida than any other state so far, go figure. As a matter of
fact there will be a couple going that way soon 8^ )
Had fun
Cya all
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
---------------------------------
How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call
rates.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Philippe,
Oh yes, you can!
But not a large system.
Just a few panels to offset *some* (not all) your consumption,
so the meter only sees a lower power draw, never a backwards power.
Regards,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Philippe Borges
Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 12:07 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Discharge load?
Yes but modern grid "counters" can't go backward.
For this reason in France we need a second special one installed by grid
company to see amps flowing backward...
no solar gerilla possible here :^(
cordialement,
Philippe
Et si le pot d'échappement sortait au centre du volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
Forum de discussion sur les véhicules électriques
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Rush" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 5:05 PM
Subject: Re: Discharge load?
> Moving electrons across conductors doesn't leave much of a paper
> trail. They would have a hard time proving you ever were connected to
> their grid. So a lawsuit is unlikely.
>
> Mike
>
>
>
> --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Rush" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > Cor,
> >
> > My elec co here in Tucson is Trico (www.trico.coop ), and while they
> may never say it is 'illegal' to connect to their system without their
> 'permission', it sure is implied many many times. Here is just one
> instance from their "Sun Watts" Program.
> (http://trico.coop/documents/sunwatts_handbook.pdf)
> >
> > "All ON-GRID customer solar electric generating systems must meet
> the following system and installation requirements (e.g., systems to
> be connected to Trico's electric distribution system)."
> >
> > So in my opinion, it is highly illegal, but I also have to say, I
> know of no one that has been prosecuted for 'connecting' without
> 'permissison'.
> >
> > In any case, I don't think it makes any sense to debate the 'merits'
> of various elec co practices here... especially when they buy back at
> the avoided cost and not at what we, the public, pay per KWH.
> >
> > Rush
> > Tucson AZ
> > www.ironandwood.org
> >
> > PS chek out my article in Homepower,
> http://www.ironandwood.org/graphics/RV_PV.pdf
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Cor van de Water" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 10:18 PM
> > Subject: RE: Discharge load?
> >
> >
> > > Hi Rush,
> > >
> > > Check the back issues of Homepower for WHY they used the
> > > guerilla tactic and what Homepower endorsed: it was always
> > > stressed that it was guerilla because the red tape was so
> > > massive that it could take years before a perfect system
> > > could even be turned 'on' and sometimes it was made impossible
> > > simply because a bureaucrat did not like it.
> > > Often it was even to conquer the *illegal* refusal to allow
> > > the grid connection, therefore the attitude of "we will
> > > connect it anyway, because we know it is perfectly safe"
> > > and the hoopla from the power company is only to cover up
> > > that they should allow this, but they don't like it....
> > >
> > > The 'highly illegal' part is highly debatable.
> > >
> > > Cor van de Water
> >
>
>
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Sorry, no. I'm in the US. Nashville, Tennessee, actually. One of my
questions was about the feasability of importing one into the States. I'm
not holding my breath, though....
Topo maps sound like a great idea! *smacks forehead* Don't know why I
didn't think of that. I was thinking of instruments and gadgets and gizmos
(oh, my!)...
Matt
On 8/10/06, Ron Reid <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Matt,
I measured using an OS 1:25000 map of my route. These maps have the
contours
are marked in 5m intervals to give your vertical climb. A ruler & a bit of
maths on the steepest & longest hill gives a close enough estimate (or
transfer the scale marked on the bottom of the map to a piece of paper to
measure your distance - that way you don't need to convert the ruler 1:1
scale to map scale)
Sounds like you are a UK resident as well? Perhaps Zebra's non-response is
due to the August silly season. If there is enough of us interested in the
batteries perhaps we can make a collective approach. Anyone else from the
UK
out there?
Ron
----- Original Message -----
From: "Matt Kenigson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2006 9:06 AM
Subject: Re: questions from a newbie
>I sent a generic inquiry to them a couple of days ago and haven't heard
> anything yet. Will let you know if I hear anything useful.
>
> BTW, how do you measure an incline? I was thinking of "charting" my
daily
> commute, but haven't the foggiest how to do this.
>
> Matt
>
> On 8/10/06, Ron Reid <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>> Bob,
>>
>> I googled the "Red Beastie" & it looks (looked) really good. What was
the
>> recharge time on this configuration?
>>
>> To answer your question, no mountains where I live just a few hills.
The
>> steepest sustained climb is about 1:65 for about 1.5 miles.
>>
>> I'm still trying to get more info on the Zebra battery from the UK
>> supplier
>> but no response yet. It seems like the home converter doesn't register
on
>> their radar.
>> The specs of the Zebra look good. Their smallest battery configuration
is
>> a
>> 20 kWh battery and is about 50% size & weight if the lead acid
>> equivalent.
>> One battery pack will do the job & there is a lot of independent papers
>> on
>> the internet to show that it is good for an EV and should give about a
80
>> -
>> 100 mile range. It's chief disadvantage is that it has an operating
>> temperature of 270º C (518º F). It keeps this temperature through
>> insulation
>> but if left standing will use about 14% per day in maintaining the
>> operating
>> temperature. I can live with that because I will use it daily (NiMH
also
>> has
>> a high self discharge rate).
>>
>> I suspect the Zebra (if they get back to me) will blow me away on
price.
>>
>> Cheers...
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
>> Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 3:31 PM
>> Subject: Re: questions from a newbie
>>
>>
>>
>> >> Hi Ron an' EVerybody;
>> >
>> > I guess you are closer to the source of the Zebra battery? You are
a
>> > quick train ride through the Chunnel, to France where more EV stuff
is
>> > going
>> > on?EVen being able to buy an EV, and driving it back to UK.If you are
>> > ambitious enougfh you could build a "Red Beastie", Type of pickup.
THE
>> RB
>> > toted 40 golf cart T 105's in the bed and forward engine room! Was
>> pretty
>> > much maxed out as a truk, but was good for towing or a reliable 100
>> > mile
>> > range. Unfortunately it died in Tony's fire that DESTROYED his EV
Juice
>> > Bar
>> > and Motorcycle haven.Hey J Wayland! I have the salvaged tailgate, to
>> bring
>> > out to PDX, complete with scorch marks! The Motor- tranny lived, too,
>> it's
>> > in my van, too. It seemed a shame to torch the chassis as I think you
>> > coulda
>> > put a car body or another truck on it?Made a Black Beastie Bear ,
>> > sports
>> > car?A page from UNiversity of Maine. They used an S-10 chassis, for
>> > theirs.
>> >
>> > But, Ron, you arent alone. Their are other guyz in the UK into
EV's,
>> > some
>> > are active List members, too. Check them out, as they are on the
roads
>> and
>> > Motorways, already. Yeah, we need more "Motorways" here, only cars
with
>> > MOTORS, no ICE's I think what ya have in mind is very do able. How
many
>> > mountains ya gota drive over to get home? The OTHER ruling facter.
>> >
>> > Seeya
>> >
>>
>>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Sounds like you are a UK resident as well? Perhaps Zebra's
non-response is
> due to the August silly season. If there is enough of us interested
in the
> batteries perhaps we can make a collective approach. Anyone else
from the UK
> out there?
>
> Ron
While you're at it, get a delivered price for Kokams, and maybe also
Thunder-sky - these cost more than SLA or NiCd, but may very well be
less than the Zebra system.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Discovery's Science Channel re-aired the 2005 NEDRA Power of DC Race
this past Sunday on Discoveries This Week.
George Hamstra sent a message and said he saw it Sunday.
It's pretty cool they would show that again after an entire year.
George mentioned it may show again on the 11th. I checked the Science
Channel site and can't tell for certain if it's Episode 319 or 321.
They don't say which is on each episode. Bummer.
But the electric drag racing segment is archived at
http://www.exn.ca/dailyplanet/view.asp?date=9/19/2005
Some of your favorite folks are on it including Bob Rice and his
silver Rabbit. Shawn Lawless' Orange Juice dragster, I think Darin
Gilbert and the BYU team's record breaking NEDRA run with their EV1.
It's a pretty positive piece on electric drag racing. Ian Connocher,
the producer, did a fantastic job flowing the whole thing together.
Chip Gribben
NEDRA
http://www.nedra.com
Power of DC
http://www.powerofdc.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yes. If 1) your motor can take 180V and 2) your batteries don't sag.
But thats only electrical HP into the motor. Subtract 15% for motor loss and
loss associated with the driveline to get the HP
applied to the pavement.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of Rush
> Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2006 8:13 AM
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: Re: 93 Toyota p/u Acceleration
>
>
> Mike Williams wrote -
> > As Mr. Spammers pointed out your Curtis is only capable of 144Vx500A/742=92
> > H.P. >>
>
> Does that mean that my 180 v (30 trojan T-125's) system using a 1k Zilla can
> put out ( 180v x 1000A /742) 242 HP?
>
> Also great link for FasTrak, I can't wait to get my system up and running to
> pull some data from it
>
> Rush
> Tucson AZ
> www.ironandwood.org
>
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Just how much of a pain is it to switch the tranny? I have an old S15 that
I'd like to someday convert and I was just wondering about that today...
Matt
On 8/10/06, Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Mike,
Two more data points to consider:
Extended cab versions do come with the same frame length as a
normal cab, long bed. You can mount the same length of battery
box, only it will need to go further under the cab.
Not a problem if you run maintenance free batteries.
There are indeed many long beds, automatic transmission on Ebay.
You could swap the transmission.
Dependent on your setup you may need the control of the
manual transmission, though in my US Electricar the automatic
(steering column) control is present and it's only function is
to drop a parking pawl in the starter ring (I think) and to make
different switch contacts for the P-R-N-D.
The transmission is a manual, without stick, locked in 2nd gear.
Success,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Michaela Merz
Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 11:36 AM
To: Michael Mohlere
Cc: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: S10 Truck, 2V1 postal? van
Mike:
I do own a regular cab long bed S-10 with manual transmission. See at
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/693.html
So - they do exist :)
Michaela
> All -
>
> I have tried in vain to locate a chevy s10, regular cab, long bed (has
> longer wheel base by about 8 inches), manual tranny truck to convert -
I'm
> about convinced they do not exist, as the only ones I have seen (reg
cab,
> long bed) have automatic transmissions. Thinking I will stick to reg
cab,
> short bed, as they are fairly plentiful.
>
> ** Curious if anyone on the list has seen or owns a reg cab, long bed,
> manual transmission S10.
>
> ** Also, a friend of a friend owns a "2V1" (postal?) van...anyone heard
of
> this animal? Is it, or the guts of it worth anything???
>
> Thx, Mike
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
From what I have seen in photos, looks like they usually yank the tranny
with the engine during the conversions - I would guess setting up the clutch
pedal and hydraulics might be a bit of a pain, though......
Mike
From: "Matt Kenigson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: S10 Truck, 2V1 postal? van
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2006 04:12:58 -0500
Just how much of a pain is it to switch the tranny? I have an old S15 that
I'd like to someday convert and I was just wondering about that today...
Matt
On 8/10/06, Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Mike,
Two more data points to consider:
Extended cab versions do come with the same frame length as a
normal cab, long bed. You can mount the same length of battery
box, only it will need to go further under the cab.
Not a problem if you run maintenance free batteries.
There are indeed many long beds, automatic transmission on Ebay.
You could swap the transmission.
Dependent on your setup you may need the control of the
manual transmission, though in my US Electricar the automatic
(steering column) control is present and it's only function is
to drop a parking pawl in the starter ring (I think) and to make
different switch contacts for the P-R-N-D.
The transmission is a manual, without stick, locked in 2nd gear.
Success,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Michaela Merz
Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 11:36 AM
To: Michael Mohlere
Cc: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: S10 Truck, 2V1 postal? van
Mike:
I do own a regular cab long bed S-10 with manual transmission. See at
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/693.html
So - they do exist :)
Michaela
> All -
>
> I have tried in vain to locate a chevy s10, regular cab, long bed
(has
> longer wheel base by about 8 inches), manual tranny truck to convert -
I'm
> about convinced they do not exist, as the only ones I have seen (reg
cab,
> long bed) have automatic transmissions. Thinking I will stick to reg
cab,
> short bed, as they are fairly plentiful.
>
> ** Curious if anyone on the list has seen or owns a reg cab, long bed,
> manual transmission S10.
>
> ** Also, a friend of a friend owns a "2V1" (postal?) van...anyone heard
of
> this animal? Is it, or the guts of it worth anything???
>
> Thx, Mike
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
My apologies - Csaba Csere, not Patrick Bedard.
--- Matthew Younkins <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> This wouldn't happen to be Patrick Bedard, would it?
>
>
>
> --- Patrick Clarke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
>
> > Greetings all -
> >
> > I am engaged in conversation with an individual
> who
> > claims that the EV1s
> > range was reduced to only 12 miles in cold weather
> > with heater and
> > lights on.
> >
> > This isn't true, is it? If not, can anyone point
> me
> > at any resources to
> > definitively refute this claim?
> >
> > Of course, this individual also considers WKtEC to
> > be a wild conspiracy
> > theory movie and that GM tried everything in their
> > power to create a
> > successful EV and simply failed, producing only a
> > below-average car held
> > in low regard.
> >
> > While it may not be possible to convince him,
> others
> > listening in might
> > be more educable if I can produce good sources
> with
> > i's dotted and t's
> > crossed.
> >
> > Thanks in advance,
> > - Patrick
> >
> >
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello John,
One thing to add, that a EV will normally outlive a ICE if design right. My
EV is now going 30 years while a ICE might be replace six times in the time
span.
Many people thinks it new, because everything is so clean. It does feel new,
not like a ICE that may be ran that long with no engine maintenance.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Wayland" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 10:17 PM
Subject: Re: EV1: 12 mile range?
> Hello Patrick and All,
>
> Sounds like your friend might be just a little closed minded about
> things. Let's try to give him real examples of how wrong he is, OK?
>
> Patrick Clarke wrote:
>
> > Greetings all -
> >
> > I am engaged in conversation with an individual who claims that the
> > EV1s range was reduced to only 12 miles in cold weather with heater
> > and lights on.
>
>
> First things first. Let's take on the issue of cold weather reducing
> range. Lead acid pack? Yes, it does reduce range, but the most
> successful EV1s were the NiMH versions, and these batteries love cold.
> The argument about cold temps reducing range are silly when it comes to
> this chemistry type battery. Somehow, I doubt your friend has even a
> slight clue about battery chemistry, though :-)
>
> You might next, try educating him about electrical power, as it sounds
> as if he has a poor grasp on this based on 'the lights' on comment. It
> seems he thinks the lighting circuit in a car, which draws about 120
> watts or so from the pack, draws energy similar to the electric
> propulsion system that draws about 8000 watts during cruise. Many folks
> are just plain ignorant about physics, math, and the way things
> work...sounds like your friend is one of these types. I've heard the
> 'lights on' bit before, where the uneducated think that the addition of
> running the lights is akin to doubling the draw on the EV's battery.
> This of course, is silly. A fair comparison would be to ask an elephant
> if it could possibly bear the weight of a fly that's landed on its back!
>
> As to running the heater in the EV1, with its efficient heat pump
> system, running the heater is only about an 8% hit in regards to
> reducing rang per charge. With the NiMH pack that gives 140 miles range
> per charge, this would reduce that range to about 130 miles... more than
> 10 times the range that your uninformed friend says it can go in cold
> weather with the heat on...oh yeah, and with the lights on too, if you
> even want to consider the tiny amount of power they consume.
>
> >
> > This isn't true, is it?
>
>
> Of course not.
>
> > If not, can anyone point me at any resources to definitively refute
> > this claim?
>
>
> Sure, have him read my story 'Living in the Past, Getting Beat by the
> Future!' all about my 4 days in an EV1:
>
>
> http://www.portev.org/commentary/living_in_the_past.htm
>
>
> Though I really hope you can get him to read the entire story, here's an
> excerpt:
>
> I nudged the speed up to 70-72 mph to keep up with the traffic flow...If
> this had been a lead acid powered machine, I would have been worried
> about reduced range due to cold batteries, but I was comforted knowing
> that those NiMH guys would be happy campers in the cold....the cabin was
> fogging up and it was a bit chilly, so as planned, I turned the
> heater/defroster on...the heat pump got going....After an hour of
> continuous 70+ mph freeway cruising that included quite a bit of hill
> climbing...and with the heat pump using juice the entire time, and with
> the car's multitude of fans, pumps, and lights all getting in on the
> current gig, the range meter still showed 79 miles left, this, after
> having gone more than 70 miles...at close to 9:00 PM, and after an hour
> and forty five minutes of continuous driving...I had traveled 85 miles
> while running all the lighting and heating for all that time, without
> the car breaking a sweat!
>
> Here's another:
>
> At almost exactly 110 miles...I had pulled off the freeway and was
> stopped at a traffic light. The EV1 had been flying along for about an
> hour and a half at 70-80 mph speeds, and had never once felt like it was
> running short on power. I noticed that there was an estimated 36 miles
> left on the range meter, so when the light went green, I decided to see
> what was left as I planted my right foot down one last
> time.....screeeeechhhh....,chirp-chirp.....scrreeechh...What an EV!
> After running along at freeway speeds for so long, and after 110 miles,
> the thing could still fry the tires at will!...29% battery left...one
> terrific electric car!
>
> >
> > Of course, this individual also considers WKtEC to be a wild
> > conspiracy theory movie and that GM tried everything in their power to
> > create a successful EV and simply failed,
>
>
> Geesh! Has he even 'seen' the movie?
>
> > only a below-average car
>
>
> Let's see....
>
> (1) While most all autos on the road were made of standard fare stamped
> steel construction, the EV1 used aluminum, magnesium, composites, and
> special construction techniques...yeah, that sounds below average to me!
>
> (2) At the time, its 7.4 -7.9 second road tested 0-60 was quicker than
> most all regular cars, quicker than many sports cars, and nearly as
> quick as the high performance cars of the mid to late 90's
> period...yeah, that sounds below average to me!
>
> (3) Its mpg equivalent was in the 135 mpg range where gutless economy
> cars were only getting 35 mpg and cars with equivalent performance were
> getting 15-20 mpg...yeah, that sounds below average to me!
>
> (4) It's areo drag was a world's best of .19 cd...where most all other
> cars on the road at the time were in the .34-.39 range (lower is
> better)....yeah, that sounds below average to me!
>
> (5) It was able to achieve the above and yet, emit zero emissions...the
> only car sold by a major manufacturer on the planet able to do
> so...yeah, that sounds below average to me!
>
> (6) It never needed any spark plugs, any filters, any belts, any hoses,
> any exhaust system parts, or any gas or oil...yeah, that sounds below
> average to me!
>
> (7) It was independent from foreign oil because it could get its energy
> from American generated electrons available from renewable hydroelectric
> generation, wind generation, photovotaic generation, and other
> types...yeah, that sounds below average to me!
>
>
> >held in low regard.
>
>
> Is that why car magazines raved about the car? Is that why the leasees
> all raved about them?
>
> See Ya....John Wayland
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi,
I cut the motor fingers off my bell housing, the opposite end of the
commutator. The 7" x 15" motor in my Cushman is running at 170F or 77C instead
of 190F after driving to work for an hour and 15 minutes. Since the motor
fingers are a safety (so you won't cut off your fingers on the vane fan) you
should put 1/2" screen in it's place. I get about double the air flow now.
Also I had a motor vibration when speeding up at 1500rpm's that Warfield &
Lloyd Electric couldn't balance out. I put a radiator hose clamp on the motor
shaft (after some spin up testing) and it eliminated the vibration. So a hose
clamp makes a good spin balance counterweight.
I burnished the black commutator with a comm-stone which made it shiny again
and added a muffin fan on the hot spot comm with a 140F snap disc (similar to
what's in a dryer from Grainger) and hooked it to the 12V to get rid of the
latent heat once the power is off (like a car radiator fan).
Running cool & smooth in Roanoke, VA,
Mark
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 04:12 AM 10/08/06 -0500, Matt wrote:
Just how much of a pain is it to switch the tranny? I have an old S15 that
I'd like to someday convert and I was just wondering about that today...
G'day Matt, and all
Disclaimer: I am in the wrong countinent to have any experience with S15
trucks, others may be able to tell you if these things are necessary to
worry about.
Problems you may encounter (unlikely to be a definitive list) with a RWD
driveline swap:
Transmission may be shorter or longer than a manual box, resulting in a
longer or shorter tailshaft (easy to check, and if different, get a
tailshaft at the same time as the gearbox).
Diff ratio possibly different between the auto and manual, maybe changing
the speedo revs (usually not, the speedo drive gear usually compensates),
I'd be surprised if that were the case (check anyway).
Tailshaft may be 1-piece on one version, two-piece (requiring a middle
mount) on the other.
Tailshaft spline may be different, again, if it is, get one when you get
the gearbox.
Transmission cross-member/mount may be different - get one if that's the case.
When you go to the "wreckers", see if you can get a full set - flywheel to
tailshaft yoke. The tailshaft yoke is nice to have whilst setting up the
motor onto the gearbox to stop the gear oil leaking out. You'll need a
clutch and flywheel unless going clutchless, the cheapest time to get them
is together. If you can pick up a complete S15 that is rusted or crashed,
that may be cheaper than the wreckers - and gives a spare diff, brake
parts, etc.
For a RWD vehicle, there is no serious pain in putting in a different
driveline, as long as there is the space for all the bits. The biggest pain
in changing brand (Toyota 5-speed gearboxes were a popular fit into 6 and 8
cylinder Holdens (GM) here) is the tailshaft adaption - don't skimp on this
part, as backyard tailshaft adaptions are probably going to vibrate/break.
Hope this helps
Regards
[Technik] James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Ryan,
I have a comparison cost of my ICE which is a sister car (same model) as the
EV that goes way back to 1975.
I use the ICE to test out the driving conditions and distances that I will
then drive the EV on the same course. A onboard Holly computer, told me
what the best course to take with the EV.
I still have both cars today, which are in better than factory new
conditions. To attain this like new condition, the ICE maintenance and lots
of replacements of everything four times, the cost is now over $150,000.00
for the ICE, while the EV is now approaching $100,000.00 with only one time
replacement of the electrical system and three replacements of the battery
pack.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ryan Plut" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 11:37 PM
Subject: My ICE Costs
> I wanted to see how much I'm spending on my ICE car. Here's a spreadsheet
> that totals it up. I've driven 60k so far in my Chrysler Concorde. I'm
> starting my mileage count from 2007 instaed of adding the 60,000 miles to
> it up front. Also the maintenance column is based on what I've actually
> spent on the car, carried forward, but doesn't include the $1,200 I just
> dropped on A/C and tranny work. Of course, the $/gal could (will) go up
> faster than inflation.
> I haven't totalled up the initial and ongoing costs of an EV yet. That
> comes later. But I like to think how much I WILL NOT be spending on gas
> and oil as I build my EV :-D
>
> 60000
> miles total
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 9523.8
> Miles per year
>
>
>
>
>
> 22.7
> MPG
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Year
> Cost of Gas per Gallon*
> Miles per year
> Cum. MPY
> Cost of Gas per Year
> Cost of Maintenence*
> Cum. Cost per Year
>
> 2007
> $ 3.00
> 9523.81
> 9523.81
> $ 1,258.65
> $ 400.00
> $ 1,658.65
>
> 2008
> $ 3.12
> 9523.81
> 19047.62
> $ 1,309.00
> $ 416.00
> $ 3,383.65
>
> 2009
> $ 3.24
> 9523.81
> 28571.43
> $ 1,361.36
> $ 432.64
> $ 5,177.65
>
> 2010
> $ 3.37
> 9523.81
> 38095.24
> $ 1,415.81
> $ 449.95
> $ 7,043.41
>
> 2011
> $ 3.51
> 9523.81
> 47619.05
> $ 1,472.45
> $ 467.94
> $ 8,983.80
>
> 2012
> $ 3.65
> 9523.81
> 57142.86
> $ 1,531.34
> $ 486.66
> $ 11,001.81
>
> 2013
> $ 3.80
> 9523.81
> 66666.67
> $ 1,592.60
> $ 506.13
> $ 13,100.53
>
> 2014
> $ 3.95
> 9523.81
> 76190.48
> $ 1,656.30
> $ 526.37
> $ 15,283.21
>
> 2015
> $ 4.11
> 9523.81
> 85714.29
> $ 1,722.55
> $ 547.43
> $ 17,553.19
>
> 2016
> $ 4.27
> 9523.81
> 95238.10
> $ 1,791.46
> $ 569.32
> $ 19,913.97
>
> 2017
> $ 4.44
> 9523.81
> 104761.90
> $ 1,863.11
> $ 592.10
> $ 22,369.18
>
> 2018
> $ 4.62
> 9523.81
> 114285.71
> $ 1,937.64
> $ 615.78
> $ 24,922.60
>
> 2019
> $ 4.80
> 9523.81
> 123809.52
> $ 2,015.14
> $ 640.41
> $ 27,578.16
>
> 2020
> $ 5.00
> 9523.81
> 133333.33
> $ 2,095.75
> $ 666.03
> $ 30,339.94
>
> 2021
> $ 5.20
> 9523.81
> 142857.14
> $ 2,179.58
> $ 692.67
> $ 33,212.19
>
> 2022
> $ 5.40
> 9523.81
> 152380.95
> $ 2,266.76
> $ 720.38
> $ 36,199.33
>
> 2023
> $ 5.62
> 9523.81
> 161904.76
> $ 2,357.43
> $ 749.19
> $ 39,305.96
>
> 2024
> $ 5.84
> 9523.81
> 171428.57
> $ 2,451.73
> $ 779.16
> $ 42,536.85
>
> 2025
> $ 6.08
> 9523.81
> 180952.38
> $ 2,549.80
> $ 810.33
> $ 45,896.97
>
> 2026
> $ 6.32
> 9523.81
> 190476.19
> $ 2,651.79
> $ 842.74
> $ 49,391.51
>
> 2027
> $ 6.57
> 9523.81
> 200000.00
> $ 2,757.86
> $ 876.45
> $ 53,025.82
>
> 2028
> $ 6.84
> 9523.81
> 209523.81
> $ 2,868.18
> $ 911.51
> $ 56,805.51
>
> 2029
> $ 7.11
> 9523.81
> 219047.62
> $ 2,982.91
> $ 947.97
> $ 60,736.38
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> * Increase of 4%/Yr for inflation shown
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Ryan G. Plut
> "Common sense is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it" -
> G. Bernard Shaw
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Reva (G-wiz) are available in London, not a family car but probably a good
commuter :^)
cordialement,
Philippe
Et si le pot d'échappement sortait au centre du volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
Forum de discussion sur les véhicules électriques
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron Reid" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2006 10:29 AM
Subject: Re: questions from a newbie
> Geoff,
>
> My main practical obstacle to building an ev myself is not motivation ,
it's
> space which comes at a premium in the UK - it's a crowded island! I am
> hooked on the idea now. Apart from the obvious environmental reasons for
EV,
> petrol (gas) costs about $7.5 per gal in the UK! Most of this is made up
of
> fuel tax. EV's are at least twice as efficient as ICE and circumvent both
> the fuel tax as well as the road tax in the UK.
>
> WKtEC has not hit the circuit in the UK yet but I know the jist of the
> story. I think the entrenched oil & car manufacture hegemony shown in
WKtEC
> is worse in the UK because of the amount of revenue the government raises
in
> fuel tax. This was done ostensibly to discourage drivers from using their
> cars and encourage them on to public transport. No-one can tell me that
the
> government is not addicted to this revenue source and whilst paying lip
> service to the environment will place whatever obstacles in the way of
mass
> production EV's to protect this revenue. All politicians by definition are
> lying thieving corrupt bastards! The desire to be a politician should
> automaticaly ban you from ever becoming one!
>
> My rant for the day but I guess I'm preaching to the converted.
>
> Ron
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Geoff Linkleter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "EV Discussion List" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 5:13 PM
> Subject: questions from a newbie
>
>
> > Ron, 2 thoughts
> >
> > (i) In my (limited) experience the cost of batteries is significantly
> > higher in the UK than is often talked about on the list.
> >
> > (ii) If you are not really keen on building an ev I would have thought
the
> > best choice would be to look for a Citroen Berlingo or Saxo EV. Either
of
> > these would just about meet your performance rerquirements and they
> > occasionally appear for sale, even on e-bay. There are several people on
> > the list who can help you support one.
> >
> > You could even think about looking for one in France, where they are
more
> > common, if you could live with LHD. Phillipe could probably help.
> >
> > Geoff
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Jeff,
One thing to check is the amount of resistance in ohms to motor body,
between the armature and fields to the motor frame.
New, the motor starts out at over 20 meg ohms to ground and as the brushes
wear and scatters the brush dust around, you may find it to be down to less
than 10k ohms.
When my motor ohms get that far down, its time to clean out the motor. You
can get a di-electric motor cleaning spray compound from a motor shop, which
you can spray into the motor while it is running. It is flame proof. I think
it is made by Chemtronics.
I also pick up some motor enamel winding spray paint, to paint the front of
the commentator down to the shaft. This normally where the brush dust will
track along this path.
If you even tear down a motor for maintenance, it is best to have the inside
of the motor painted with a high gloss di-electric motor paint. This will
have less resistance to the brush dust ground and for it to exit out.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Shanab" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 10:11 PM
Subject: Batteries are a sleep
> My EV was down for 2 months, I manually charged batteries during that
> time with a sears 12V charger to keep them all above 12V. I only had to
> do this once but it took the whole weekend just because there are 25
> batteries.
>
> I have started commuting to work starting last Friday, with a side trip
> to the theater on Friday night. I had one battery that was low and, boy
> oh boy did I screw up on the drive home and definitely reversed a cell
> as the voltage was down to 6V and it was hot (these are excide orbitals)
> I thought I had destroyed it, but managed to get it back (2amp limit on
> pfc 20 overnight until above 10V then charge normally). ( Word of
> warning, very hard to tell when driving if a battery is low/reversed
> when you have a 288V nominal pack.)
>
> That battery is .2V less than the surrounding batts but still comes up
> to flashing the green LED on the reg along with the rest of the pack.
> But It seems like all the batteries have really low capacity. It is only
> 7 miles to work for a total of 16 or 18 miles and the pack is quite
> dead. It seems like it should be more range. In your guys experience,
> how many cycles does it take to wake up orbitals? I am also not getting
> to the blue light, but the regs are holding at 14.77V
>
> I used to get 350Wh/mile. if 36ah*288 = 10Kwh and 80% is 8kwh, I should
> get 23 miles. The e-meter says I use about 3.2kwh in 7 miles that is 450
> wh/mile , hummm better check the brakes,tire-pressure and alignment!
>
>
--- End Message ---
