EV Digest 5776
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) OT mishap (was RE: Steorn Challenge)
by Mike Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Low Voltage DC EVs (was: RE: Wilderness Electric Vehicle warning)
by "Michael Perry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: What does it take to convert a truck?
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Solectria Force Issues
by Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: What does it take to convert a truck?
by "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: What does it take to convert a truck?
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: What does it take to convert a truck?
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Opinions on Toyota Echo for conversion?
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: What does it take to convert a truck?
by "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) RE: Solectria Force Issues
by "Will Beckett \(becketts\)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: A bit cleaner air on the lake today
by Lock Hughes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Ego Scooters. Battery replacement.
by "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: NEC Tokin Supercaps was Re: EUROPOSITRON or was it ESMA...
by Lock Hughes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: What does it take to convert a truck?
by "steve clunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) eagle talon
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
16) Re: Ego Scooters. Battery replacement.
by "Dale Curren" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) A123 systems pack
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
18) Re: Low Voltage DC EVs (was: RE: Wilderness Electric Vehicle warning)
by "Ev Performance (Robert Chew)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) one bad battery in my pack
by "steve clunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: battery trailers
by "steve clunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: What does it take to convert a truck?
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: A123 systems pack
by "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) 72 Volt conversion idea
by Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: one bad battery in my pack
by "Rush" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Curtis Controller schematics wanted
by nikki <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: What does it take to convert a truck?
by "Michael Perry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: Curtis Controller schematics wanted
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: DOD v pack life
by "John Bryan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) Re: What does it take to convert a truck?
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
30) Re: NEDRA Press Release
by "David (Battery Boy) Hawkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
31) Re: Grants, Re: Plug in Hybrid retro fits for Prius, Escape wanted for NY
state fleet.
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
32) Potbox problems
by Ken Albright <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
33) Re: 72 Volt conversion idea
by "jmygann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
My appologies to the list. I meant to reply only to the sender. I promise I
won't run for office :-)
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of Mike Willmon
> Sent: Saturday, August 19, 2006 7:02 PM
> To: Lawrence Rhodes; ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: RE: Steorn Challenge
>
>
> You're right, if it works then so much the better for all of us....
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> IMO, American drivers are a little bit spoiled by having such high powered
> cars. I would say "overpowered" but certainly many don't agree. I
> understand the concern many people have. Certainly low powered cars, EV
or
> ICE, are not for everyone, but IMO slow cars are not dangerous if they're
> properly driven.
>
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
I would certainly agree w/ those statements, having driven small cars for
years. My current car (2L engine) is the smallest of the lot, when I bought
it last October. The oversized engine certainly is noticed at the pump.
38-39MPG for freeway only, but around town (even though it's mostly freeway)
the mileage drops to below 30. The VW, as you noted, developed 26 to 55HP,
but it was lucky to see that power in reality. <g> They made up for their
lack of power w/ proper gearing. An EV *should* have a wider power band...
thus better acceleration per HP.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 01:49 PM 8/19/2006, Michael Perry wrote:
From: "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> While the performance of a 6000 lb vehicle may not be great, it's
> likely to have better range than a small light vehicle, AND have
> something the small light vehicle doesn't have. Cargo capacity.
But isn't it going to require about 3000 lbs of batts to go around 50 miles?
(Assuming LA's are used.)
Don't know. Using about 2400lbs of batteries (40 T105's) and the
various formulae bantered around (including UVE's EV calculator)
tends to indicate a 100-120 mile max range.
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi folks,
I spent the day over working on a local chapter members Force. They
had two problems. The first appears to be bad bearings in the motor,
so we pulled the motor and they plan on taking it to a local
industrial motor shop this week. The second issue was the rear
battery box. The mounting lip on the left side had sheared loose
from the well section completely and the right side had sheared off
half-way. As a result the whole battery box was slowly dropping out
of the rear of the car.
Recent someone mentioned upgrading a Force motor to resolve the
side-load issue on the motor bearings. Can I get more details on that?
Also, has anyone seen a similar failure of the battery box? It looks
like the welds failed.
Thanks,
Mike Chancey,
'88 Civic EV
Kansas City, Missouri
EV Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
My Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
Join the EV List at: http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
In medio stat virtus - Virtue is in the moderate, not the extreme
position. (Horace)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Don't know. Using about 2400lbs of batteries (40 T105's) and the
> various formulae bantered around (including UVE's EV calculator)
> tends to indicate a 100-120 mile max range.
>
Another data point:
My Ranger gets to 60 miles from a bit more than 1600 lbs of SLAs, but
as little as 40 miles floored (75mph)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 09:47 PM 8/19/2006, Death to All Spammers wrote:
My Ranger gets to 60 miles from a bit more than 1600 lbs of SLAs, but
as little as 40 miles floored (75mph)
Great. Now what does the Vehicle weigh? What voltage and controller
and motor?
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
So, lets setup a concrete example. I'm actually quite interested in
having a useful EV truck.
Ford F250 Regular Cab, 2WD, from
http://autos.msn.com/research/vip/spec_engines.aspx?year=2000&make=Ford&model=F-250%20Super%20Duty&trimid=-1
GVWR 8800 lbs, Max Payload 3729 lbs, 5 or 6 speed manual
transmission available.
Trojan T105, 62 lbs, (110AH at 1 hr rate?), Qty 40 for 2480 lbs of
battery. $103 ea
Dual Warp 9 motors - $1700 ea
Z2KHV - $4550
PFC-50 - $2500
So, basic conversion price (not including the boat-loads of smaller
items, or the truck itself) is about $14,570.
Now, would something like this have reasonable acceleration? Would I
be embarrassed merging onto the freeway? What kind of range is likely?
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
How much height where the tank was? Looks like almost a foot. Lawrence
Rhodes......
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Saturday, August 19, 2006 7:34 PM
Subject: Re: Opinions on Toyota Echo for conversion?
> Here's this page if you haven't already seen it:
http://electric-echo.com/
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> >My Ranger gets to 60 miles from a bit more than 1600 lbs of SLAs, but
> >as little as 40 miles floored (75mph)
>
> Great. Now what does the Vehicle weigh? What voltage and controller
> and motor?
>
It's the production model: GVWR of 5400 lbs (a mere 700 lb payload),
312V/60Ah pack of Delphi 8V batteries, ~300A peak AC controller,
Siemens motor attached to the transaxle and DeDion rear suspension.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I haven't seen that failure on the battery box. I had mine replaced after
the car was in a crash. I think Kevin told me there was one more box left
but it has been a long time and there may not be another.
There is no solution on the motor to gear box configuration. There is a lot
of stress on the motor because of this design. I replaced all the bearings
(motor and gearbox) when I had a bearing failure in the gearbox.
- Will
Aptos, CA 95003
(831) 688-8669
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Mike Chancey
Sent: Saturday, August 19, 2006 9:34 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Solectria Force Issues
Hi folks,
I spent the day over working on a local chapter members Force. They had two
problems. The first appears to be bad bearings in the motor, so we pulled
the motor and they plan on taking it to a local industrial motor shop this
week. The second issue was the rear battery box. The mounting lip on the
left side had sheared loose from the well section completely and the right
side had sheared off half-way. As a result the whole battery box was slowly
dropping out of the rear of the car.
Recent someone mentioned upgrading a Force motor to resolve the side-load
issue on the motor bearings. Can I get more details on that?
Also, has anyone seen a similar failure of the battery box? It looks like
the welds failed.
Thanks,
Mike Chancey,
'88 Civic EV
Kansas City, Missouri
EV Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
My Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org Join the EV List at:
http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
In medio stat virtus - Virtue is in the moderate, not the extreme position.
(Horace)
--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.11.3/423 - Release Date: 8/18/2006
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
--- "Stefan T. Peters" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Well, finally got that EV grin! (sorta)
> Going to up the motors to a dual submerged setup with an outboard
> tiller
> soon, and add one more bat for a 24V setup (motors in series, Curtis
> perhaps? or should I run two 12V controllers + motors side-by-side?).
Good stuff Stefan! For more upgrades, read up on ducted props, aka
"korts"...
eg
http://www.kortpropulsion.com/index.html
http://www.outboardelectric.org/index.html
http://www.qis.net/~jmgraham/resrun.htm
They work best at low speeds and designed for a narrow speed range.
Fair winds and following seas
tks
Lock
Toronto
Human/Electric hybrid
__________________________________________________
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
B&B brand is a very good quality/price ratio
for Ego you can use B&B EVP35
cordialement,
Philippe
Et si le pot d'échappement sortait au centre du volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
Forum de discussion sur les véhicules électriques
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>;
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2006 1:46 AM
Subject: Ego Scooters. Battery replacement.
> I have a client that has melted his 34ah Long batteries in his Ego
Scooter.
> The Ego is a well made 24v Scooter. The batteries were highly out of
> balance & melted under the stress of charging after totally discharging
the
> pack. In the U1 35 ah size what would be a good brand in SLA to replace
the
> Long brand batteries. I have 33 AH Interstate DCS 33H in my Schwinn
> Chopper. They are supposed to be great batteries but at about the same
size
> as the Ego battery it has 1 to 2 ah less. Anybody happy with an Ego and
> their batteries. What works well? Lawrence Rhodes........
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks Jack (and all)
I think another comment here was about V sag w/caps. Good point. I'm
looking at acceleration only (urban stop and go) Sorta like the
draggers, but only from EVery red light and stop sign <grin>
And to save high loads on the "main pack" of batts
EVen though the motor (and controller) may be rated 24v, I assume for a
few secs any motor only can handle a lot more volts. I think Roland
mentioned too, that caps can be "ganged" in series for V as desired. An
onboard DC/DC could charge a bank of caps to 48v from a 24v pack?
So a contactor to flip from 48v of caps over the first 2-3 seconds
(acceleration) to 24v controller and batts for most travel.
My interest in Tokin (or other) was only in what might be available now
as scrounged (in volume production and available as "scrap" - aka low
budget EV w/parts from a bone yard.
tks
Lock
Toronto
Human/Electric Hybrid
--- Jack Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> If I recall correctly, 1F is 1-amp for 1-second, so a 5F cap isn't
> much
> to get excited about, although 24v is impressive. I have some 50F
> caps,
> but only 2.5v I played with in my RC car.
> EPCOS has some 5000F caps at 2.5V,
> http://dkc3.digikey.com/PDF/T062/1089.pdf
> The datasheets for this cap says 3.5Ah capacity. $300 ea.
> You'd need 50 for 120v = $15,000
>
> They have some 200F caps, only $30, * 50 for 120v is only $1500,
> which if I'm right above (ee math wiz will correct me), would give
> you
> 200amps for 1 second. Might be neat trick for drag racing to dump a
>
> pile of amps to the motor for a second or two.
>
> Jack
>
> Lock Hughes wrote:
> > Was just poking around about Europositron and the mention of the
> Glenn
> > Amatucci/Telcordia patent. (Zero hits about aluminum batts on the
> > Telcordia site) Found that NEC Tokin has a patent from 2005 that
> > references the earlier patent. Don't know if it's about the same
> batt
> > chemistry, but went to the Tokin site anyway.
> >
> > Tokin makes lots of stuff, including supercaps, turns out. There is
> a
> > pdf catalogue online that lists the caps they have, but that big
> pdf
> > doesn't mention one that they show here:
> >
> >
>
http://www.nec-tokin.com/english/product/supercapacitor/application02.html
> > or tinyurl:
> > http://tinyurl.com/kea7g
> >
> > Specs they show are:
> > Max.Rated Voltage (DC) 24V
> > Nominal Capacitance 5F
> > Max. ESR (at 1kHz) 500m
> > Operating Temperature -40C to +85C
> > Dimension (mm) 148(W) x 72(D) x 84(H)
> >
> > The applications they suggest these caps are good for include
> > "Automobile Engine Start-up Assist" and regen braking (and
> > "anti-lock brake system of freight car"...)
> >
> > They also list the following features:
> >
> > 24V type without balance circuit realized
> > Rapid charging and discharging
> > Unlimited charging-discharging
> > Environment-friendly product
> > Wide range of the operating temperature
> > Long life
> > High shock resistance
> > High weatherability
> >
> > No pricing, but on their pdf about RoHS compliance they list this
> > particular cap as "under mass production".
> >
> > I think someone commented in the recent ESMA thread about how their
> > product might be interesting in a lightweight vehicle?
> >
> > Anywho, I'm not smart enough to compare the ESMA products w/this
> NEC
> > cap. But I'm thinking that NEC may already be into economies of
> > scale with this "little" 24v cap?
> >
> > Application is a 200lb vehicle (scoot w/rider), where the vehicle
> is a
> > tribrid human/batts/cap(or caps?)... I don't have a problem
> tapping
> > about 24v vehicles (vs 120v and up), `cause `round here this is
> enough
> > volts to pass a Tesla (or WZ) in bumper-to-bumper, which is much of
> the
> > time <grin>
> >
> > Hoping others here might be interested in these NEC caps (if they
> > aren't still outrageous in price), as a system part to ease the
> strain
> > of acceleration off the batts chemistry, and maybe soak up some
> regen.
> > And whether these caps are already showing up in auto wrecking
> yards
> > across NA. But I just don't know what 5 farads "looks like" in
> > practical terms (for a scoot - and whether they might be might be
> found
> > within a "scooter budget".)
> >
> > `Been trying to do the math... or some of it. I *think* these NEC
> caps
> > store 1,440 joules, equal to .4watthour, but if the energy in this
> cap
> > is "blown off" as acceleration over three seconds, that's about
> 480wh
> > of power?
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Lock
__________________________________________________
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Shanab"
I have a small truck and am considering it as my second conversion.
After converting the 300zx to a 9" dc motor and going to the trouble to
adapt it to the tranny I am, well, a little disappointed. The adaption
was a lot of work and the motor is in the way of batteries. It is such a
pain shifting all the time in an EV.
Hi Jeff , as you might remember when you where thinking about converting the
300zx most on the list said , " to heavy " . I've done both 300zx and the
Mitsubishi mighty max and can say you are going to be VERY happy with the
truck . You are going from one of the worst cars to one of the best trucks ,
in my experience. I'd add that you did some fine work on the 300zx but sad
to say fine work on the wrong car still doesn't help. Glad it didn't turn
you off to ev's . Got a new clip up of My Mitsubishi might max and ev
interview http://www.grassrootsev.com/mits.htm
If you don't have the means to make your own adapter and it is already a
rear wheel drive. I think throwing a dual 8 or dual 9 setup down in the
tunnel (with a guard and a blower to a air filter, thus pressurized to
protect from water) allows more room for batteries and an all around
cleaner installation.
I used one 11" and then left it in 4th , when I sold the 2k zilla ( thinking
I'd be getting another soon :-( ) I put a 1k back in ( 23 orbitals ) and
it then started feeling like I needed to take off in 2nd or 3ed . No more
tire smoking , maybe a little in 2ed but nothing like before .
Comparison
no adapter but new driveline, 2 motors and $1000 in reversing relays.
possible smaller controller and wires for the same performance on the
low end.
possibly more room for batteries and they can go lower
The 11 has 2 times the torque as the 9 when given the same volts and amps ,
( half the rpm , of course, no over unity ) so it's much like 2 9's in
series . I'd say you'd still need a 2k controller or a tranny .
Maybe a layer of batteries up front under a second floor making a trunk
up front and a pair of boxes on either side of the motor/driveline
under the bed.
Ya this sound ok , I've been layering the batteries , with one layer right
behind the cab , and none behind the rear , makes it handle much better. As
I remember you auto cross raced the truck as gas . I started auto cross
racing my truck when I found there was auto cross racing once a month in my
town .
Steve Clunn
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Has anyone converted an eagle talon to an ev? Is this vehicle to heave for
such a conversion?
--
In Friendship, Ted
//ted.sanders.home.comcast.net
//ffni.home.comcast.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
** Reply to message from "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> on Sat,
19 Aug 2006 16:46:52 -0700
> Anybody happy with an Ego and
> their batteries. What works well? Lawrence Rhodes........
One of my neighbors has an Ego. He's had it a couple years. He rides it as
his main vehicle.
His batteries are doing fine so far.
One problem has arisen. The sprocket on the motor went south pretty quick and
he replaced it with one he could get from a local supply place. It was a bit
wider than the original and had one more tooth on it. He also replaced the new
belt. Prices were much better than Ego's. It increased his top speed a little.
Dale Curren
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm working on an A123 systems pack starting with my 24V Ebike (8S2P) and then
progressing to my 144V ADC/Curtis car (46S12P). So far I have designed a
rudamentary shunt regulator for each parallel element and am now about to start
work on an optoisolated voltage/temp. monitor for the pack.
Is anyone on the list with some electronics experience interested to
collaborate?
At this stage my time to progress it is limited but Im determined to get it
happening before my PbAcid batteries die (most likely in about 6 months).
A123 M1 batteries hold the most promise for me as they are mass produced, have
incredible discharge specs, scalable into big packs and will most likely come
down in price in future.
Regards, Rod Dilkes
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Guys,
Hahha, i like the 'smallest car of the lot' bring a 2L. My smallest is 652
cc, two cylinder, and that was good enough in traffic and freeway.
Cheers
On 20/08/06, Michael Perry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> IMO, American drivers are a little bit spoiled by having such high
powered
> cars. I would say "overpowered" but certainly many don't agree. I
> understand the concern many people have. Certainly low powered cars, EV
or
> ICE, are not for everyone, but IMO slow cars are not dangerous if
they're
> properly driven.
>
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
I would certainly agree w/ those statements, having driven small cars for
years. My current car (2L engine) is the smallest of the lot, when I
bought
it last October. The oversized engine certainly is noticed at the pump.
38-39MPG for freeway only, but around town (even though it's mostly
freeway)
the mileage drops to below 30. The VW, as you noted, developed 26 to 55HP,
but it was lucky to see that power in reality. <g> They made up for their
lack of power w/ proper gearing. An EV *should* have a wider power band...
thus better acceleration per HP.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm back for a 5 day trip and got lots of yards to mow . I charge the pack
( 8 orbitals) and head to the first , a big church which usually take 3
charges to cut ( 1 hour mowing) . I have a 10 position switch on the mower
so I can look at the voltage of each battery , and after checking the
voltage's usually leave it on the worst one , which has been no. 4. Number
4 usually lags behind the others for the first 5 charges but buy the end of
the day , he's usually up with the rest. Well one pass around the church and
he's hitting 10.5 ( others are all over 11.5) .Back to the truck and charge
, and another pass , same thing . I pull him out of line and do 5 min's of
cutting then back in line and charge again , as I don't want to cook the
other batteries while trying to wake up no 4. After about 5 charges no 4 is
coming back a little . As I'm dump charging from my 120-v work truck I can't
charge the mower with out all the batteries in line so I keep doing the
short mini charges hoping it will come back , and by the end of the job and
many mini charges I'm seeing much improvement , so I'm on to the next yard .
The rest of the day is regular lawns which I'm now able to do without
recharging in between , on the last yard of the day , no 4 is lagging the
others by about 1/2 a volt but compared to the 2 minunits of run time that
morning he's doing very well . What dose this mean ? I can see where if
somebody has a car , doesn't use it for awhile and doesn't have a way to
look at each battery voltage , this could happen to them , and as most
wouldn't recharge there car 10 times to wake them up , that stinker would
just get beaten up pretty bad but if given the chance could come back.
My 2 yards worth
Steve Clunn .
Yes I don't know how to spell minunites ( 60 seconds ) and my spell checker
dosn't know what I'm trying to do
.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Lee , the problem with this is that you then have a lot of weight that
will "wag" the tail of the car much worse that loading the truck up as the
futher back the more levage it has for " waging "
What a great day for me , I got to answer a question for Lee , the man I
though knew everthing .
steve clunn
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lee Hart" <
Why aren't there any 2-wheel trailers with 2 hitches, where both wheels
caster or steer to turn with the car?
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If you want to use a Warp motor, it is best to contact George F. Hamstra, a
tech for the Warp motors at NetGain. He will run you a motor spread sheet
for the vehicle you want to convert.
Besure to include all data on the vehicle, as to weight, transmissions gear
ratios in each gear, axle gear, diameter of tires and roll out circumference
of the tires, the maximum speed you want to go and etc.
I am using a Warp 9 as a backup motor while my GE 11 is in maintenance for
driving a rig that may be between 7000 to 8000 lbs when I carry cargo. One
time I hit over 8000 lbs when I carry 40 boxes of porcelain floor tiles that
weigh 50 lbs each. I use a air suspension system made by Air Ride
Technologics, that I can level out the EV.
I drove with that load with a overall gear ratio of 13.5:1 in 2nd gear with
a 5.57:1 axle ratio. I held the maximum motor ampere to 200 amps while
driving at 25 mph which kept the motor just over 3000 rpm, which is the call
the sweet spot for the best ratio of torque to current of the motor.
The Warp 9 motor has a maximum continuous rating of 199 amps, so that's
where I ran it at.
Therefore two Warp 9 motors would be 100 amp each at the same weight, gear
ratio and speed.
I contacted George F. Hamstra at NetGain for other motor data. He ran a
motor spread sheet, and found out it would have been better to run a Warp
11. While the Warp 9 develops its peak torque at about 3000 rpm at 200
amps in my rig, while a Warp 11 would develops its peak torque at half the
rpm or at 1500 rpm at half the amperes.
This is what my GE-11 does, it can run my EV at 60 mph in final overall gear
of 5.57:1 with a motor and battery ampere of 180 amps at a motor rpm of 4000
RPM with a EV total weight of 7100 lbs.
George F. Hamstra E-mail is [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Saturday, August 19, 2006 11:02 PM
Subject: Re: What does it take to convert a truck?
> So, lets setup a concrete example. I'm actually quite interested in
> having a useful EV truck.
>
> Ford F250 Regular Cab, 2WD, from
> http://autos.msn.com/research/vip/spec_engines.aspx?year=2000&make=Ford&model=F-250%20Super%20Duty&trimid=-1
> GVWR 8800 lbs, Max Payload 3729 lbs, 5 or 6 speed manual
> transmission available.
> Trojan T105, 62 lbs, (110AH at 1 hr rate?), Qty 40 for 2480 lbs of
> battery. $103 ea
> Dual Warp 9 motors - $1700 ea
> Z2KHV - $4550
> PFC-50 - $2500
>
> So, basic conversion price (not including the boat-loads of smaller
> items, or the truck itself) is about $14,570.
>
> Now, would something like this have reasonable acceleration? Would I
> be embarrassed merging onto the freeway? What kind of range is likely?
>
> --
> John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream.... http://www.CasaDelGato.com
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
per kwh, Kokam is less expensive, lighter, smaller !
if rule book is safety then i suppose A123 and other phosphate based lithium
cells are the way to go.
just a suggestion: 46S12P is 147V28Ah and so not enough for a car, range
will be just the corner...
cordialement,
Philippe
Et si le pot d'échappement sortait au centre du volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
Forum de discussion sur les véhicules électriques
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2006 3:05 PM
Subject: A123 systems pack
> I'm working on an A123 systems pack starting with my 24V Ebike (8S2P) and
then
> progressing to my 144V ADC/Curtis car (46S12P). So far I have designed a
> rudamentary shunt regulator for each parallel element and am now about to
start
> work on an optoisolated voltage/temp. monitor for the pack.
>
> Is anyone on the list with some electronics experience interested to
collaborate?
>
> At this stage my time to progress it is limited but Im determined to get
it
> happening before my PbAcid batteries die (most likely in about 6 months).
>
> A123 M1 batteries hold the most promise for me as they are mass produced,
have
> incredible discharge specs, scalable into big packs and will most likely
come
> down in price in future.
>
> Regards, Rod Dilkes
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi folks,
This recent discussion of lower voltage EVs got me thinking. I have
seen a lot of conversions where the approach seemed to be, load it
will all the batteries it will hold, then add a few more, then put in
a big enough motor and controller to make it still keep up with
traffic. The lead sled approach if you will. Having owned a couple
of Solectria Forces, I really appreciated their overall
approach. The key to it I feel may not be so much the AC drive
system, but the light weight and balance of the overall
conversion. So, what if one made a lower voltage EV in the image of
a Force, with roughly the same weight in batteries and the same power
output from the controller. Shouldn't the overall weight and
performance be similar?
The Force has 13 8G27 gell-cell batteries, 63 pounds each, total 819
pounds. If we used 12 Trojan T-105 flooded-batteries at 62 pounds
each the total would be 744 pounds. Close enough for general
purposes, and an inexpensive decent forgiving battery.
The Force uses an AC drive capable of a max of 250 Amps. In theory
that is 250 Amps * 156 Volts = 39 KW, though they rate it at only 20KW.
If we used an Alltrax 72 Volt 450 amp controller, then your looking
at 450 Amps * 72 Volts = 32.4 KW. This probably would be capable of
more power than the Force system, though you could turn it down if you wished.
For a drive motor, how about a 6.7" ADV to save some weight and some
dollars? When you add the flexibility permitted by keeping the donor
transmission, this should be sufficient
Maybe a Geo donor to really match up with the Force, or something
similar and I would suspect you should end up with an EV capable of
covering most folks commuting needs without spending a lot of money
and still get good serviceability.
Not a pavement shredding monster by any means, just a decent simple
beginner EV. So, what do you think?
Thanks,
Mike Chancey,
'88 Civic EV
Kansas City, Missouri
EV Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
My Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
Join the EV List at: http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
In medio stat virtus - Virtue is in the moderate, not the extreme
position. (Horace)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Steve,
Sounds like a great reason for everybody to get some battery regulators, or
even Lee's Battery Balancer!!!
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
----- Original Message -----
From: "steve clunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2006 6:23 AM
Subject: one bad battery in my pack
> I'm back for a 5 day trip and got lots of yards to mow . I charge the pack
> ( 8 orbitals) and head to the first , a big church which usually take 3
> charges to cut ( 1 hour mowing) . I have a 10 position switch on the mower
> so I can look at the voltage of each battery , and after checking the
> voltage's usually leave it on the worst one , which has been no. 4. Number
> 4 usually lags behind the others for the first 5 charges but buy the end of
> the day , he's usually up with the rest. Well one pass around the church and
> he's hitting 10.5 ( others are all over 11.5) .Back to the truck and charge
> , and another pass , same thing . I pull him out of line and do 5 min's of
> cutting then back in line and charge again , as I don't want to cook the
> other batteries while trying to wake up no 4. After about 5 charges no 4 is
> coming back a little . As I'm dump charging from my 120-v work truck I can't
> charge the mower with out all the batteries in line so I keep doing the
> short mini charges hoping it will come back , and by the end of the job and
> many mini charges I'm seeing much improvement , so I'm on to the next yard .
> The rest of the day is regular lawns which I'm now able to do without
> recharging in between , on the last yard of the day , no 4 is lagging the
> others by about 1/2 a volt but compared to the 2 minunits of run time that
> morning he's doing very well . What dose this mean ? I can see where if
> somebody has a car , doesn't use it for awhile and doesn't have a way to
> look at each battery voltage , this could happen to them , and as most
> wouldn't recharge there car 10 times to wake them up , that stinker would
> just get beaten up pretty bad but if given the chance could come back.
> My 2 yards worth
> Steve Clunn .
>
> Yes I don't know how to spell minunites ( 60 seconds ) and my spell checker
> dosn't know what I'm trying to do
> .
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi everyone,
A friend in Bristol is looking for schematics/circuit diagrams for
his Curtis 1274 controller. It's a bit pooched after (I believe) the
charger blew. He wants to know if it's completely broken or not.
I can pass them onto him if anyone has copies they can email to me!
Regards
Nikki.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
> Don't know. Using about 2400lbs of batteries (40 T105's) and the
> various formulae bantered around (including UVE's EV calculator)
> tends to indicate a 100-120 mile max range.
>
> John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
That sounds decent enough. I seem to recall a Tundra getting about that
range w/ 2500lbs of Optimas.
I'm curious where the cargo capacity will come from, though. Isn't this a
3/4 tom PU you are loading 1 1/4 tons of batts on? Can it be beefed to still
carry a load?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This is the only one I know of:
http://cafeelectric.com/curtis/index.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
From: "David Roden"
Getting the most cycles is a balancing act
between avoiding sulfation from undercharging and and avoiding grid
corrosion from overcharging.
Which of these conditions, or what others cause cell-shorting
dendrites to grow?
Thanks,
JB
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 10:52 AM 8/20/2006, Michael Perry wrote:
I'm curious where the cargo capacity will come from, though. Isn't this a
3/4 tom PU you are loading 1 1/4 tons of batts on? Can it be beefed to still
carry a load?
Rated payload on that truck is 3729 lbs.
The definitions of 1/2, 3/4, and 1 ton trucks are a bit odd...
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
All,
Is anyone planning on attending from Colorado?
BB
>From: "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 16:56:27 -0700
>
>FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE: NEDRA Electric Drag Racing Annual National Event 8/25
>and 8/26 at
>Portland International Raceway - 6PM till Midnight.
>
>
>CONTACT:
>Roy LeMeur
>NEDRA NW Regional Director
>The National Electric Drag Racing Association
>360 556 2105
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>www.nedra.com
<snippage>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Quick note Nick..
You can run a Prius in EV mode without the ICE running, you need the "EV"
button feature. I have seen Ryan punch in the command and drive off
silently.. with a Cold ICE.
So you CAN drive a Prius without even starting the ICE... been there done
that, Big feature of my PiPrius package.
You can't with the Escapes... You Have to start the Ice to keep the Cats
hot. No way around that ....yet.
By the way I have two CAN view computers litterallyu under my left elbow as
I hack this into the PC. DSL is down, I am on dial up..
I have a Prius MFD display over at the shop.. we are making a virtual Prius
to test the Kits, and to hopefully start the hack into the Ford for the
PieScape.
Hi volume won't help us much.. the demand is so large... the cost benifits
are on the $100,000 worth of cells range.
And Yes campers.. I intend to test 45 Kwhr Lion packs in my Hybrids.. So....
Yea... I might have a really large charger picked out for that.
I just wish I could get full EV mode at 55 mph on the highway... AGain...
not yet....might have some.. rpm limits to deal with....
yea 100 miles of EV only range.
We did not get any miles on the Prius blue yesterday...we did get caught up
with the BS factor...
> Haha! I'll be on the look out for more cool PHEVs coming out of the Rudman
> labs!
>
> Thanks!
>
Yea keep a eye on what I get to pull off, and get paid for...or more like
charge for...
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
SNIP ....
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have had problems with two potboxes and wonder if this is common or if there
is something I could be doing to cause it.
The failure mode has been the same. Over the period of about a week and
about 200 miles of travel, they have developed a dead spot in the 300 ohm
vicinity. Below and above they work fine, but trying to take off smoothly is
not possible. The pot hits that area and goes to infinite resistance
momentarily, then quickly moves past. This makes for a herky-jerky ride and
backing smoothly is almost impossible.
When the first one did this, I replaced the guts and everything was fine for
a while. It was like driving a different car. Now the problem is returning and
my ohm meter shows the same problem.
It is a Curtis PB6. Is there a history of this type of failure? Is there
anything that might cause it. I have the cable lined up for a straight pull on
the PB arm so there is no side pressure.
I can get another replacement but I don't want to have to do this every
couple of weeks.
Thanks
Ken
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+
countries) for 2¢/min or less.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Great idea ...
I am looking for a 4 door - 95 or newer Geo metro , 5 speed
Where to put the batteries and 4 people ??
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Hi folks,
>
> This recent discussion of lower voltage EVs got me thinking. I
have
> seen a lot of conversions where the approach seemed to be, load it
> will all the batteries it will hold, then add a few more, then put
in
> a big enough motor and controller to make it still keep up with
> traffic. The lead sled approach if you will. Having owned a
couple
> of Solectria Forces, I really appreciated their overall
> approach. The key to it I feel may not be so much the AC drive
> system, but the light weight and balance of the overall
> conversion. So, what if one made a lower voltage EV in the image
of
> a Force, with roughly the same weight in batteries and the same
power
> output from the controller. Shouldn't the overall weight and
> performance be similar?
>
> The Force has 13 8G27 gell-cell batteries, 63 pounds each, total
819
> pounds. If we used 12 Trojan T-105 flooded-batteries at 62 pounds
> each the total would be 744 pounds. Close enough for general
> purposes, and an inexpensive decent forgiving battery.
>
> The Force uses an AC drive capable of a max of 250 Amps. In
theory
> that is 250 Amps * 156 Volts = 39 KW, though they rate it at only
20KW.
>
> If we used an Alltrax 72 Volt 450 amp controller, then your
looking
> at 450 Amps * 72 Volts = 32.4 KW. This probably would be capable
of
> more power than the Force system, though you could turn it down if
you wished.
>
> For a drive motor, how about a 6.7" ADV to save some weight and
some
> dollars? When you add the flexibility permitted by keeping the
donor
> transmission, this should be sufficient
>
> Maybe a Geo donor to really match up with the Force, or something
> similar and I would suspect you should end up with an EV capable
of
> covering most folks commuting needs without spending a lot of
money
> and still get good serviceability.
>
> Not a pavement shredding monster by any means, just a decent
simple
> beginner EV. So, what do you think?
>
> Thanks,
>
>
> Mike Chancey,
> '88 Civic EV
> Kansas City, Missouri
> EV Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
> My Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
> Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
> Join the EV List at: http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
>
> In medio stat virtus - Virtue is in the moderate, not the extreme
> position. (Horace)
>
--- End Message ---
