EV Digest 5790
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) The next evolution of hobbyist EVs - there is money to be made
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) RE: Optical encoders for "throttle" (was RE: A note on potentiometers)
by "Joe Vitek" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Optical encoders for "throttle" (was RE: A note on potentiometers)
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Optical encoders for "throttle" (was RE: A note on
potentiometers)
by Ralph <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Test Lane is NOT Racing
by Jim Waite <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Interview about the movie "Who killed the electric car" on Youtube.com
by Marc Geller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: OT: major breakthrough in photovoltaics claimed
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Optical encoders for "throttle" (was RE: A note on potentiometers)
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: CurrentEliminator
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Battery oil
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Freedom EV update
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Optical encoders for "throttle" (was RE: A note on potentiometers)
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) RE: Optical encoders for "throttle" (was RE: A note on potentiometers)
by "Joe Vitek" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) RE: The next evolution of hobbyist EVs - there is money to be made
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: The next evolution of hobbyist EVs - there is money to be made
by "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Conversions in the Northwest
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) RE: Optical encoders for "throttle" (was RE: A note on potentiometers)
by "Joe Vitek" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) RE: Optical encoders for "throttle"
by "Joe Vitek" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: The next evolution of hobbyist EVs - there is money to be made
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: OT: major breakthrough in photovoltaics claimed
by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Battery Box Cooling Fan Control from PFC30
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) PFC-30 Startup
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) RE: Conversions in the Northwest
by "Richard Rau" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: The next evolution of hobbyist EVs - there is money to be made
by "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Test Lane is NOT Racing
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
26) Re: World's First Electric Junior Dragster
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
27) Re: Test Lane is NOT Racing
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- Begin Message ---
While working on my next project, I realize there are a few places where an
electrical/mechanical hobbyist can make some money:
1) High performance AC controller and motor. Something liquid cooled (to
facilitate tight spaces) with regen, and the power to rival the best DC
systems. Get it under the $10k mark and there will be a winner. Otmar did
this with the Zilla DC controller, now time to try AC?
2) Lithium battery modules. ACP and Tesla are leveraging the common 18650
lithium battery. How about making a 70Ah 12V "battery" of these things with
a built in BMS?
3) An inexpensive BMS for lithium cells. For a 300V system based on Kokam,
it would require 70-80 cells. The currently available BMS for this is way
too expensive. How about leveraging existing BMS chips used for laptops and
power electronics.
Unfortunately since I do not have the power electronics or motor building
experience, I would have no clue how to build this. Any takers?
Don
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> You can use a digital rheostat,
> microchip mcp4012, 5k with 64 steps.
> Jack
How would you use that as throttle control input? We were talking about the
actual human
interface (at least, that's what I thought). What would be the human interface?
--
joe
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I didn't know there were any true rheostat digi-pots on the market.
Problem is, your encoder has to put out exactly 63 pulses from it's
start to end position, then back again, and it has to be synchronized to
the digipots starting position on power-up.
Jack Murray wrote:
You can use a digital rheostat,
microchip mcp4012, 5k with 64 steps.
Jack
Eric Poulsen wrote:
The direction isn't difficult. If you have your basic slotted disk
and use two light sensors that are 90degrees out-of-phase (WRT the
slot pulses, not the circumference of the sensor), you can easily
implement a circuit that gives out a direction and pulse outputs.
They old-school mice that had a rubber ball in them worked this way.
The difficult part in the implementation is creating a circuit that
pretends to be a rheostat/pot, _and_ making sure that when it changes
it's resistance, that it does so smoothly.
Joe Vitek wrote:
Ya know, When I read that originally, I thought, "What a neat idea!"
However, how would
that be implemented? I mean, how would the circuit "know" what
direction you are going?
--
joe
Ralph,
I'm not sure I follow you exactly -- do you mean an optical encoder
that
emulates a potentiometer/rheostat? Yes, this is possible, but not sure
if there's an off-the-shelf implementation.
Ralph wrote:
Hi Eric,
Has anyone developed a opto-isolator so there won't be dead spots?
You know sooner or
later a potentiometer on the floor is going fail!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I think you're all making this a bit too hard. If you used an opto-isolator, or
a light sensitive resistor and simply used a curtain between the light source
and the sensor, a simple analog voltage could easily be produced and it would
run reliably so long as the light source (LED?) continued to run. No dead
spots.
Morley, a manufacturer of classic guitar effects pedels, used this technique
for the same reason (reliability) back in the 60s and 70s (although they used a
light bulb for the light source).
-Ralph
On Thu, 24 Aug 2006 09:32:19 -0700
Jack Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> You can use a digital rheostat,
> microchip mcp4012, 5k with 64 steps.
> Jack
>
> Eric Poulsen wrote:
> > The direction isn't difficult. If you have your basic slotted disk and
> > use two light sensors that are 90degrees out-of-phase (WRT the slot
> > pulses, not the circumference of the sensor), you can easily implement a
> > circuit that gives out a direction and pulse outputs. They old-school
> > mice that had a rubber ball in them worked this way.
> >
> > The difficult part in the implementation is creating a circuit that
> > pretends to be a rheostat/pot, _and_ making sure that when it changes
> > it's resistance, that it does so smoothly.
> >
> > Joe Vitek wrote:
> >
> >> Ya know, When I read that originally, I thought, "What a neat idea!"
> >> However, how would
> >> that be implemented? I mean, how would the circuit "know" what
> >> direction you are going?
> >>
> >> --
> >> joe
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> Ralph,
> >>>
> >>> I'm not sure I follow you exactly -- do you mean an optical encoder that
> >>> emulates a potentiometer/rheostat? Yes, this is possible, but not sure
> >>> if there's an off-the-shelf implementation.
> >>>
> >>> Ralph wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> Hi Eric,
> >>>>
> >>>> Has anyone developed a opto-isolator so there won't be dead spots?
> >>>> You know sooner or
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> later a potentiometer on the floor is going fail!
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
John, John, John, .....Dennis, Dennis, Dennis....
THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU !!!!
(and next time John, why don't you say what you REALLY mean ;-)
For almost two weeks now, ever since I decided to go to PIR(Woodburn) this
year, I have been waiting patiently to read just the right comment, or see just
the right kind of *spark* that this weekends PIR EVent so deservedly
needed......
Gentlemen, you have not failed me!!!
Without overstating the obvious, and due to the all of the EVr's and media
who WILL be at PIR, *THIS* MY FELLOW EV'RS IS WHAT IT'S ALL ABOUT!!!
As John so succinctly painted, I too have been fortunate to witness the sheer
magic of an an otherwise almighty and unbeatable gasser being blown away by a
meek, but as all know, MIGHTY EV. I've only been to 3 EV drags (Woodburn twice,
and once to Infineon), but seeing you Dennis, and you John (and Dave, Rich,
Otmar, etc. etc. etc.) pummel the Viper's, Vette's, rails or whatever's, well
all I can say is that over and over, again and again, it's launched this humble
EV'rs Grin into a full-blown EV HOOTnHOWEL (watch & listen to the videos folks,
you'll hear it throughout the crowd).
Let me also say to you, Dennis, I WILL be in Bakersfield later this year to
cheer Current Eliminator (and you:-) on at Regionals (and maybe we'll even see
some *heads up* style EV racing as well?)
I sincerely look forward to seeing EVeryone at PIR this weekend!
Jim Waite
(*PIR/Woodburn - Woodstock West '06* anyone?...
Oh my gawd, is that Crosby, Stills, Nash & Young I hear in the background?!)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thomas,
As the person who posted the youtube of Chris, and an ex-Think driver
in San Francisco, I just wanted to say hello. I hope my little red
Th!nk has found its way to good family.
Marc Geller
San Francisco
On Aug 24, 2006, at 7:30 AM, Thomas Henden wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4Z4xEmAuR0
Happy (and a really lucky) owner of a Th!nk City electric car.
Thomas Henden, Oslo, Norway.
---
"Let me put it this way, Mr. Amer, The 9000 series is the most
reliable computer ever made. No 9000 computer has ever made a
mistake or distorted information. We are all, by any practical
definition of the words, foolproof and incapable of error."
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
"geysers"?
The panels are able to generate enough energy to run stoves, geysers,
lights, TVs, fridges, computers - in short all the mod-cons of the
modern house.
Danny
Lock Hughes wrote:
Just updating an old thread from February:
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/ev-list-archive/message/59095
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The idea would be to pair it up with an optical encoder.
Joe Vitek wrote:
You can use a digital rheostat,
microchip mcp4012, 5k with 64 steps.
Jack
How would you use that as throttle control input? We were talking about the
actual human
interface (at least, that's what I thought). What would be the human interface?
--
joe
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
That's great news, Dennis! I know there are a lot of fans of drag
racing. This will be a great way to show them how fast EVs can be!
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Storm Connors wrote:
> Someone mentioned the Edison Batteries using battery oil to keep
> air out of the battery and to cut down on passing electrolyte out
> of the battery.
Flooded cells with a potassium hydroxide electrolyte can absorb carbon
dioxide out of the atmosphere, to form potassium carbonate. The cell is
said to be "carbonated", and the electrolyte needs to be replaced. But
the amount of CO2 in the air is so low that this takes a long time. It's
mainly a problem at high temperatures, or for cells that are old or not
being used regularly.
One trick to prevent carbonation was to add a small amount of oil (any
oil). It floats on top of the electrolyte, to prevent carbon dioxide
from getting into it. But during gassing, gas bubbles go right through
it unimpeded. When you add water, it also goes right through the oil
layer as if it weren't there.
The main drawback is that if the cell ever gets low on water, the oil
can wet the exposed separator and plates. This destroys their ability to
function, so you have to laboriously drain the cell, rinse out the oil
with some solvent, and refill it.
Oil has no purpose for lead-acid batteries. They don't carbonate. The
layer of oil won't affect gassing or water usage. The only thing the oil
will do is to slow down the rate of evaporation if the battery is left
for long periods in a high-temperature low-humidity environment.
> batteries that last 40 years or more seem pretty logical too.
Edison cells worked fine, but cost more and required a lot of
maintenance. They needed watering more often, every few years you had to
replace the electrolyte, and every 5-10 years you had to take them apart
and replace the separators. They are a good deal if your labor is cheap
or free; otherwise they cost more than lead-acid.
> It was mentioned that the Edison batteries were inefficient.
> Replacing the battery pack every 3 years is pretty inefficient.
Edison cells have a low charge efficiency, so it takes a lot more energy
to charge them than you get back on discharge.
Any battery can be recycled, but at the moment, only lead-acids are
being recycled in any significant amount (94% the last I heard). Most
other batteries people just throw in landfills.
> Anyway, I found a modern offering of battery oil.
> Is it any more than high priced mineral oil?
No. Plain old mineral oil works just as well (to the extent that it
works at all).
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
jerryd wrote:
> The Freedom all composite chassis has been completed, and [am] now
> mating it to the body with Lee Hart's excellent help.
Thanks, Jerry! It was great to see the Freedom at last, as well as all
the other neat stuff at your place. Jerry is really "into" 3-wheelers --
there are *dozen* of them there. 3-wheel bikes, 3-wheel personal
mobility scooters, 3-wheel Honda "leaning" motorcycles, three versions
of his 3-wheel "Woody", and of course the Freedom itself.
I rather liked his Woody (the "Lumbergini" as Bob Rice likes to say).
It's a great combination of size, weight, simplicity, cost and
performance. Like an NEV, but fast enough to serve as a real car. The
size of a Sparrow, but seats 2 and has cargo space. Being built of wood,
it is extremely simple to build yet surprisingly strong. By using golf
cart parts and a VW Beetle front end, parts are cheap and available. I
think Jerry said he used it for 10 years! It looks pretty sad today;
Florida's weather has taken its toll on it.
The Freedom is what I came to see. The body looks very good.
Streamlined, but all simple curves like the R.Q. Riley vehicles. It's
bigger than I thought; about 5 feet wide, 5 feet high, and 11 feet long.
The door and window openings haven't been cut out yet, so it is very
rigid. It is two layers of fiberglass with a foam core. Feels like it
weighs around 150 lbs.
I helped him finish up the chassis. It too is all fiberglass, with a
3/4" foam core. Basically, it consists of two big boxes; the interior
and the battery box. The battery box is about 32" x 30", right between
the two front wheels, and big enough for twelve golf cart batteries. The
interior is about 4' x 5', very roomy, and with a large shelf above the
rear wheel for storage. It weighted about 190 lbs. I'm eyeballing these
dimensions; Jerry can provide the actual numbers.
When I left, Jerry was trimming and fitting the body and chassis
together. It should be an amazingly rigid structure when finished.
I don't know what he's going to use for the front and rear suspension.
The light weight, good streamlining, and huge battery box gives
it the potential for very good range. Speed is going to depend on the
motor and controller chosen.
> then it's on to the doors, probably the hardest thing in it.
> But I think I have a good plan for them.
Most homebuilt and kit cars have lousy doors that work poorly, leak and
rattle. I'd suggest using doors off some existing car, with a new outer
skin to conform to the body. This would provide all the hardware for the
hinges, latches, locks, rolldown windows in one fully debugged package.
> Then move on to the windshield, dash, inside coverings, brakes,
> etc. Then the electrical starts with the finish finally in sight!
> Sounds so easy doesn't it!!
He's come a long ways, but there's still a lot to do. The potential is
there for the Freedom to be a Sparrow done right. But the outcome will
depend on the details and tradeoffs. Do it cheap, or do it good? Spartan
or luxury? Speed vs. range?
> We should have AC'ed space in the next week or two which will allow
> a much longer work day and night, out of the Fla bugs, rain,
> humidity, speeding things up.
That's for sure! The Florida summer climate was murder on a Minnesota
boy like me! I don't see how Jerry gets *anything* done in that climate!
An indoor air-conditioned shop looks mandatory to me.
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You can do it with a disk that's variably tinted around it's
circumference, paired with a CDS cell, but getting the resistance right
(especially the low resistance) is difficult.
Ralph wrote:
I think you're all making this a bit too hard. If you used an opto-isolator, or a light sensitive resistor and simply used a curtain between the light source and the sensor, a simple analog voltage could easily be produced and it would run reliably so long as the light source (LED?) continued to run. No dead spots.
Morley, a manufacturer of classic guitar effects pedels, used this technique
for the same reason (reliability) back in the 60s and 70s (although they used a
light bulb for the light source).
-Ralph
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> The direction isn't difficult. If you have your basic slotted disk and
> use two light sensors that are 90degrees out-of-phase (WRT the slot
> pulses, not the circumference of the sensor), you can easily implement a
> circuit that gives out a direction and pulse outputs. They old-school
> mice that had a rubber ball in them worked this way.
Ah, very cool. I didn't think of phasing two in different positions. Hey, I am
an RF guy!
Thanks for the quick response.
> The difficult part in the implementation is creating a circuit that
> pretends to be a rheostat/pot, _and_ making sure that when it changes
> it's resistance, that it does so smoothly.
Since it will all be quantized, you can't really get away from the discrete
steps, but if
you have enough of them, it will be relatively smooth? If you use it to control
a current
mode D/A, say, 4-20mA maybe? ;)
--
joe
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Don Cameron wrote:
> 2) Lithium battery modules. ACP and Tesla are leveraging the
> common 18650 lithium battery. How about making a 70Ah 12V
> "battery" of these things with a built in BMS?
This is exactly what Valence offers in their U-Charge series of
products:
<http://www.valence.com/ucharge.asp>
The XP product, rather than the RT product is what EVers should be
looking at:
<http://www.valence.com/pdffiles/U-Charge%20XP%20DS%20Jan06.pdf>
Both include internal BMS circuitry, but the RT includes devices to
disconnect the internal cells from the load in the event of over or
under voltage, and the ratings of these devices limit both the max
discharge rate and max pack voltage that these modules can tolerate.
The UEV-18XP modules are 18V 65Ah blocks that allow building a higher
voltage string from fewer blocks than the 12V modules.
There are two different BMS modules to choose from, depending on the
pack voltage: one for up to 150V and another for 100-450V packs.
Unfortunately, the Valence modules are rather pricey at this time,
however, hopefully the prices will drop as production & sale volumes
increase.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
As lots of people i suppose, i'm working on point 2 and 3 :^)
cordialement,
Philippe
Et si le pot d'échappement sortait au centre du volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
Forum de discussion sur les véhicules électriques
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2006 7:01 PM
Subject: The next evolution of hobbyist EVs - there is money to be made
> While working on my next project, I realize there are a few places where
an
> electrical/mechanical hobbyist can make some money:
>
>
> 1) High performance AC controller and motor. Something liquid cooled (to
> facilitate tight spaces) with regen, and the power to rival the best DC
> systems. Get it under the $10k mark and there will be a winner. Otmar
did
> this with the Zilla DC controller, now time to try AC?
>
>
> 2) Lithium battery modules. ACP and Tesla are leveraging the common 18650
> lithium battery. How about making a 70Ah 12V "battery" of these things
with
> a built in BMS?
>
>
> 3) An inexpensive BMS for lithium cells. For a 300V system based on
Kokam,
> it would require 70-80 cells. The currently available BMS for this is way
> too expensive. How about leveraging existing BMS chips used for laptops
and
> power electronics.
>
>
> Unfortunately since I do not have the power electronics or motor building
> experience, I would have no clue how to build this. Any takers?
>
>
> Don
>
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
That depends. If someone were to offer me $15K for
CivicWithACord, I'd take it, and start on the next
one. Production-wise, few want the liability, and I'm
not into converting cars other than the Civic.
--- Lawrence Rhodes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> Who is doing conversions in the Northwest? I'm just
> doing EV work locally
> here in the San Francisco Bay area but there are
> people in the Oregon/
> Washington area that want cars done. Roderick do
> you have
> recommendations????
>
>
Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? My $20 video/DVD
has my '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch too!
Learn more at:
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> You can do it with a disk that's variably tinted around it's
> circumference, paired with a CDS cell, but getting the resistance right
> (especially the low resistance) is difficult.
I was thinking of something like this after you said that:
http://home.comcast.net/~rfpowerdude/throttle_encoder.pdf
Use a coupla op-amps for scaling and for a low resistance source to put out
0-5V and you
could probably use it. Or make the op-amps into a current source if the motor
controller
wants a current drive input...
--
joe
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> The idea would be to pair it up with an optical encoder.
Yeah, I realized that just after the nick of time. ;) Right after I sent that,
I realized
that you would do the mouse type encoder and then use the digi-pot.
I am a little slow at times... especially when I should be working instead of
daydreaming
EV stuff... ;)
--
joe
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey Side note folks
I have a pack of Valence U24 modules that are going into a VW Bug and a
PiPrius kit this week.
Lots to talk about little time for now.
Clearly I will have the U Charge hooked up to a PFC charger and then to the
PiPrius control system.
So..... I am rather excited that Kent Bakke of the Seattle EV assosiation
is having me do the system build up.
Pricey is a Understatment...
Available is the obvious improvment.
Lithium is here... it's sitting on my shop's floor taking up room.
Yea Baaabeeeee!!!
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2006 10:39 AM
Subject: RE: The next evolution of hobbyist EVs - there is money to be made
> Don Cameron wrote:
>
> > 2) Lithium battery modules. ACP and Tesla are leveraging the
> > common 18650 lithium battery. How about making a 70Ah 12V
> > "battery" of these things with a built in BMS?
>
> This is exactly what Valence offers in their U-Charge series of
> products:
>
> <http://www.valence.com/ucharge.asp>
>
> The XP product, rather than the RT product is what EVers should be
> looking at:
>
> <http://www.valence.com/pdffiles/U-Charge%20XP%20DS%20Jan06.pdf>
>
> Both include internal BMS circuitry, but the RT includes devices to
> disconnect the internal cells from the load in the event of over or
> under voltage, and the ratings of these devices limit both the max
> discharge rate and max pack voltage that these modules can tolerate.
>
> The UEV-18XP modules are 18V 65Ah blocks that allow building a higher
> voltage string from fewer blocks than the 12V modules.
>
> There are two different BMS modules to choose from, depending on the
> pack voltage: one for up to 150V and another for 100-450V packs.
>
> Unfortunately, the Valence modules are rather pricey at this time,
> however, hopefully the prices will drop as production & sale volumes
> increase.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Roger.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Just a reminder that discussions of alternative energy are off topic for this
list.
They should be carefully limited, even if flagged OT.
FYI, alt-energy has its own SJSU listserver. I encourage anyone interested
in solar, wind, geothermal, etc. energy to sign up. When it comes to AE,
you'll find that list much more receptive, and much more informative, than this
one. To subscribe, send an email message containing the text
subscribe ae your-first-name your-last-name
to the address
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Please try to discuss AE here only in the context of whatever particular
challenges it presents when charging EVs.
Thanks.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Simple idea.. the Mk2B Reg has a external load port on it.
I use it to drive a 60MM 12 volt fan. It's only on when the Reg fires. So
the fans blip on an off. But are totally off when the reg is not firing.
Yes you can use the blue led sense if you opto couple it.
Better yet use the Yellow LED since it will be only on when the charger is
holding the Regs at full voltage.
And the yellow goes out when the timer locks off at the end of charge. The
blue will lock on solid at time out...
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
----- Original Message -----
From: "Grigg. John" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2006 9:38 AM
Subject: Battery Box Cooling Fan Control from PFC30
> Rich, Joe, All,
> I have a PFC30 in my truck that charges SLA batteries in
> enclosed boxes with cooling fans for the Regs. This setup works great
> except the fact it noisy with all those fans in 4 different boxes. My
> questions is: can I get anything from the bus or from the charger that
> could enable the fans when the Regs are actively shunting? I have
> notice that when the regs are producing heat the timer is also
> activated, may that can be sensed.
>
> John Grigg
> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/723
> Specs:
> 240V
> Orbital Marine
> PFC30 with Mk2b
> Zilla 1KHV
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rich or anyone else who might know the answer:
The instruction manual for the PFC-30 seems to indicate that you should have
the amperage knob turned to zero amps when you plug the PFC-30 into AC.
Two questions:
1) Is it bad for the charger to have the amp knob already turned up when
you plug in the charger?
2) If you did have the amp knob turned up, but had the overtemp pin of the
regbus pulled high when you turned on the charger, would that accomplish the
same thing as having the amp knob turned to zero?
Thanks.
Bill Dennis
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--- Begin Message ---
Lawrence,
Perhaps it's time to change my list ID to what I really do.
I am Northwest Electric Vehicles and am involved with conversions on a daily
basis.
Currently I'm doing a Porsche 914 that is turning out quite nice. 240V
Odyssey/ Zilla/PFC-30/BMS/Hi-Torque tweaked 9"/ and much more.
Corvallis Oregon is quite the place to be right now with Otmar (Café
Electric) here, and EV interest expanding every day. My facility is fully
equipped, and I look forward to working with folks who want to own well
crafted custom or semi-custom machines.
Looking forward to seeing all of you at PIR tomorrow night!!
Watch for the man with the stick...that would be me.
Richard Rau
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Lawrence Rhodes
Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2006 9:04 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Conversions in the Northwest
Who is doing conversions in the Northwest? I'm just doing EV work locally
here in the San Francisco Bay area but there are people in the Oregon/
Washington area that want cars done. Roderick do you have
recommendations????
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On my long list is a 400v AC system. When I get done with this tidal
wave of boards I'll put more time into researching it.
Mike
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> While working on my next project, I realize there are a few places
where an
> electrical/mechanical hobbyist can make some money:
>
>
> 1) High performance AC controller and motor. Something liquid
cooled (to
> facilitate tight spaces) with regen, and the power to rival the best DC
> systems. Get it under the $10k mark and there will be a winner.
Otmar did
> this with the Zilla DC controller, now time to try AC?
>
>
> 2) Lithium battery modules. ACP and Tesla are leveraging the common
18650
> lithium battery. How about making a 70Ah 12V "battery" of these
things with
> a built in BMS?
>
>
> 3) An inexpensive BMS for lithium cells. For a 300V system based on
Kokam,
> it would require 70-80 cells. The currently available BMS for this
is way
> too expensive. How about leveraging existing BMS chips used for
laptops and
> power electronics.
>
>
> Unfortunately since I do not have the power electronics or motor
building
> experience, I would have no clue how to build this. Any takers?
>
>
> Don
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
In a message dated 8/24/06 6:36:40 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
<< Subj: Test Lane is NOT Racing
Date: 8/24/06 6:36:40 AM Pacific Daylight Time
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (John Wayland)
Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-to: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Hello to All,
I usually hold my tongue when Dennis beats this drum, this time, I cannot.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>Its too bad that other EVs up there in the
>Northwest and around the country do not take advantage of racing the ice
cars(test
>lane is NOT racing).
>
Actually, it's too bad Dennis can't just congratulate us on our years of
hard work at changing the public's perception that EVs are slow, dull,
and boring and stop with his dissing our 'heads up' racing style.
Trust me Dennis, when folks see White Zombie line up next to a new
Vette, see us both get the same exact light (not the staggered light of
'bracket racing' that tries to level the playing field) then see the
electric car run off from the Vette and beat it fair and square,
everyone in the stands, everyone behind the burnout pits, and everyone
behind the fence clinching the rail, calls this racing! They never
forget what they witnessed...nor does the guy in the Vette! Heads up
style drag racing at the track is the closest thing to the real deal of
illegal street racing as one can get! The whole reason the NHRA came
into being, was to make a place where drag racers could safely duke it
out with 'the guy in the other lane'. Most racing fans aren't like
Dennis, where showing off how good 'you' are is the goal...they want to
see how good the 'cars' are. Bracket racing focuses on the driver, not
the car. Heads up racing focuses on the car, not the driver.
>NHRA and Summit racing offer great programs in all classes
>to as slow as 21 seconds in the qt.mile.
>
Yes, in bracket racing even a slug of a car like a 20 second automatic
VW van can actually win against hot Mustangs and powerful Vipers.
Bracket racing is for the 'driver', and if he or she is skilled enough,
cagey enough, and gutsy enough, with the staggered launch tree giving a
head start to the slow vehicle, they can actually beat the quicker more
powerful car over the finish line. In the real world of heads up racing,
that would never happen and the quickest car wins, as it should be. If
you're trying to promote EVs by demonstrating that they can not only
keep up with, but beat gas cars in a side by side drag race, heads up is
what it's all about. If you're trying to promote yourself, then bracket
racing is where you should be. I have done my share of it, but bracket
racing is more about the 'driver's' reaction time, the 'driver's'
techniques, the 'driver's' choices....perfect for a guy like Dennis
where winning is everything and where being considered the best at what
he does, is important. I (and my fellow NEDRA racers) prefer to advance
the cause of the electric car, not to advance the notion that I'm the
world's greatest racer.
Dennis proclaims that that heads up style is not racing, and he suggests
that we only hang out in the test lanes. Funny then, all 8 lanes at PIR
must be test lanes I guess. Each Friday and Saturday night they're jam
packed with hot vehicles going head to head with each other.
Everyone watching isn't screaming and cheering for their favorite racing
personality, they're screaming and cheering-on their favorite 'car'. You
hear comments like 'Watch this little electric car blow off that Road
Runner.' That's what NEDRA racers want, folks noticing, commenting
about, and ultimately being fans of the electric car.
Where I do agree that having electrics do well in any venue of racing is
a good thing (including bracket racing), I feel that when it comes to
convincing non-believers that an electric car can be quick and powerful,
there's nothing better than heads up style racing where you race what
pulls up next to you...no timing tree computer evening the playing
field, no tricks used like stomping the brake pedal at the end of the
run (so you don't run too fast and break out), no tricks like disguising
body parts (so the racer next to you at the end thinks you're still
behind them by a nose), none of this....just pure car vs car...pedal to
the metal...which one outperforms the other....no BS!
>Nedra worked hard to get their rules adopted by NHRA and I seem to be the
only one taking advantage of them(even though I am no longer a nedra member).
>
We worked extremely hard to make it so that anyone with an EV can run on
an NHRA track, guys like Dennis!
>There are thousands of dollars to be won in bracket racing every weekend
around the country.
>
Dennis, we don't do it for money, we do it to advance the electric car.
>Bracket racers are 97% of the drag racers in the country.
>
Well of course this is the case! When 97% of the cars on the road are
the same old thing, same Mustang, same Cuda, same Vette, same Camaro,
same WRX....the only way to make the racing inviting to all these folks
(stuck in using the same old technology) is to showcase the driver, not
the car. I'd also like to advance the thought, that this same 97% of all
racers, don't care one bit about advancing a cause (what kind of cause
is promoting the use of gas?), all they want, is to have fun and look
good at winning. That's OK, but it's not what NEDRA racers are about. I
guess NEDRA racers fall into that other 3%, the 3% that want to change
the world.
Dennis is to be congratulated on his incredible skills and his current
points standing. His routine bracket racing against gas cars is good for
showing folks that an EV can be consistent. I do think though, that it
was MUCH better for the EV cause when Dennis was into heads up style
racing, trying to go as quickly as he could pushing his EV to that world
record of 8.8 seconds. Somehow, seeing the vehicle run 12 seconds these
days isn't the same as when it scorched down the track in the 8s. I'll
never forget that heads up drag race I witnessed between an alcohol
injected V8 rail dragster and Dennis' electric rail...no staggered tree,
no handicaps, just two similar machines out on the strip, but with the
controversial contrast of one being a conventional a gas powered rail vs
an electric powered one....the electric powered Current Eliminator won,
the crowd went nuts, and the world still remembers!
See Ya.......John Wayland >>
***John ,and all other nedra record holders,I do race heads up each and every
bracket race I enter.There are three practice runs or TEST runs before every
bracket race.These 3 runs are always Heads up.So I do race heads up at least 3
times a week 48 weekends a month and sometimes I enter 2 or 3 races per
weekend.So the CE goes heads up with the ices at least 144 times a year.
I allready have the ALL OUT ET
EV record 8.801 seconds.I DO NOT HAVE A BATTERY PACK now that will run 8 second
runs(however I still have the car and tuneup).I will not spend my hard earned
money on such a pack unless someone takes my record.If a suitable hi power
battery pack ends up at my front door I will install it in the CE and reset the
record for the battery co.sponsering the pack.I will at that point go heads up
with anyone.CE is NHRA legal to 7.50 seconds in the qt.mi.Someday someone
will blow that 8.8 record away at which point I will step back up to the
line.Until that time I ENJOY bracket racing and CE and I are making waves for
evs in
NHRA with lots of ink monthly in the national dragster plus bucks in my
pocket.Come out to the finals and tell the ice racers they and there cars are
not
racing,come on Dennis Berube
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
In a message dated 8/24/06 9:47:47 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
<< Subj: RE: World's First Electric Junior Dragster
Date: 8/24/06 9:47:47 AM Pacific Daylight Time
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Joe Vitek)
Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-to: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> I came across this while doing research. It is the blue dragster near the
> middle. Read the link. http://www.1134.org/adventures/dragrace/
That is too cool! I like the junior dragster idea, but an ELECTRIC junior
dragster for my
daughter would rock!
--
joe >>
The only problem Joe Ev juniors cannot compete against the ice juniors nedra
set it up that way. D BERUBE
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
In a message dated 8/24/06 10:13:30 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
<< Subj: Re: Test Lane is NOT Racing
Date: 8/24/06 10:13:30 AM Pacific Daylight Time
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jim Waite)
Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-to: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu (EVDL)
John, John, John, .....Dennis, Dennis, Dennis....
THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU !!!!
(and next time John, why don't you say what you REALLY mean ;-)
For almost two weeks now, ever since I decided to go to PIR(Woodburn) this
year, I have been waiting patiently to read just the right comment, or see
just the right kind of *spark* that this weekends PIR EVent so deservedly
needed......
Gentlemen, you have not failed me!!!
Without overstating the obvious, and due to the all of the EVr's and media
who WILL be at PIR, *THIS* MY FELLOW EV'RS IS WHAT IT'S ALL ABOUT!!!
As John so succinctly painted, I too have been fortunate to witness the
sheer magic of an an otherwise almighty and unbeatable gasser being blown away
by a meek, but as all know, MIGHTY EV. I've only been to 3 EV drags (Woodburn
twice, and once to Infineon), but seeing you Dennis, and you John (and Dave,
Rich, Otmar, etc. etc. etc.) pummel the Viper's, Vette's, rails or whatever's,
well all I can say is that over and over, again and again, it's launched this
humble EV'rs Grin into a full-blown EV HOOTnHOWEL (watch & listen to the videos
folks, you'll hear it throughout the crowd).
Let me also say to you, Dennis, I WILL be in Bakersfield later this year
to cheer Current Eliminator (and you:-) on at Regionals (and maybe we'll even
see some *heads up* style EV racing as well?)
*** You will see heads up racing in the practice/test runs Dennis
I sincerely look forward to seeing EVeryone at PIR this weekend!
Jim Waite >>
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