EV Digest 6365
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) (fwd) Nilar NiMH batteries don't use Chevron's patents...
by murdoch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Data Acquistion Ideas
by "Mike Harvey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Weird Battery Problem
by "Fred Hartsell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) RE: MBTF for EV components? (was RE: Engine out)
by "Randy Burleson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Data Acquistion Ideas
by "Peter Gabrielsson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: 6 wheels, 8 motors, Zilla 2K, and 880 A123 Cells = 10.9
by Bill Dube <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: (fwd) Nilar NiMH batteries don't use Chevron's patents...
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Where did the RAV4 go?
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) article: Hybrid Technologies Launches Electric Mullen Sports Car
by Paul Wujek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: (fwd) Nilar NiMH batteries don't use Chevron's patents...
by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Discharged Batteries
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) RE: Should I say "Peak Lithium" ?
by "Tim Gamber" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) RE: Should I say 'Peak Lithium' ?
by "Tim Gamber" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Reviving flooded batteries
by "Brian M. Sutin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) long thread in may 2006 about why PnG doesn't work for EV's ..
by "peekay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Battery Beach, OJ, and Swamp Buggies
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
17) Re: (fwd) PHEV conversions and [NiMH] Batteries
by "G. N. Reddy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) EVLN(Peugeot Dauphin E-tricycle, 186mi range, 90mph top speed)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) EVLN(Lotus' 644hp E-SUV, 350mi range, 155mph top speed)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) EVLN(Voltageville vied for Tesla EV plant)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) EVLN(The new American nEV)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) EVLN(Girasole LSV's horse galloping sound)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Some answers were apparently procured by Doug:
On Tue, 30 Jan 2007 21:56:07 -0000, "doug korthof"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
In a conversation with Martha Jensen and Richard Howlett of Niland
Batteries, it was revealed that:
These batteries don't use the Cobasys patents;
They are 9 A/H, 24v and 5 P/E, each one capable of 1.5 kW power draw;
Weighing 3.9 kG each, with 20 NiMH 1.2v cells, each battery contains
240 Wh of enerry;
Hooked up in 4-parallel/15-series, the 60 module pack would weigh
about 600 lbs. and contain up to 14.4kWh (240*60);
Each module retails for $200, or about $800/kWh, making the entire
pack of 14.4 kWh about $12,000.
The weight is a bit more than the Toyota-Panasonic EV-95 110 A/H
batteries in the Toyota RAV4-EV, possibly due to packaging.
I'm considering using them in one of our conversions, they would
REALLY do well in a low-power conversion such as a VW bug, or old S-
10 "9-inch"/Curtis configurations.
For the AC-150, it might have enough power; certainly, the range
would be closer to 90 miles than the 60 we were getting with the
latter-day Optima YT batteries, because the 600 lbs. would be much
less than the current 1300 lbs. of YT.
Questions remain, about the regulators and overcharging devices,
longevity-cycle life, etc. I think if you could lease these
batteries, they would be a viable alternative to Optima YT in all
ways.
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], murdoch
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Martha Jensen
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 11:01 AM
> Subject: [RAV4-EV] PHEV conversions and Batteries
>
>
> I apologize in advance as this is slightly off-topic. I'm working
at
> a NiMH battery start-up that would like to get batteries into HEVs
and
> PHEVs. We're looking for people that are interested in doing a
PHEV
> conversion to test some batteries for us. We would arrange a
> below-market lease for the batteries, as well as some technical
> assistance in performing the conversion, in exchange for regular
data
> dumps and information on performance.
>
> If you or anyone you know are interested, please contact me and I
will
> provide more information on the program. We are located in the
Denver
> Colorado area, and would give preference to people located in
> geographical proximity for logistical reasons.
>
> Martha Jensen
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> V (303) 662-8891
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey All,
We are in the midst of planning our next pet project and would like to design
in some meaningful data acquisition. I was wondering what experiences you all
had in the area and what sucesses or failures (especially with hardware and
integration) I should take into account during design. Also, what would be the
most meaningful metrics to gather over time for trending and tuning purposes.
In short, we're planning an AC drive system and a Lithium pack with BMS. So,
any experiences is these areas would be especially helpful.
Regards, Mike
Mike Harvey
Harvey Coachworks and EV
(877) 841-9730
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The past couple of weeks I have been noticing a problem with my DakotaEV.
The batteries seem to drain down over a few days more than I thought that
they should. I also noticed that I got tickled a few times when I was
checking the batteries for water and the connections for corrosion. So I
started checking some things. The truck is a 91 Dodge Dakota with a warp 9"
motor and a Curtis controller. I am using 20 Interstate u-2400 batteries
for a 120 volt battery pack. Let me first say that I am a good mechanic and
I have been working on my own cars for many years. So I have verified my
finding and I am stumped.
1. When I first built the DakotaEV, several months ago, I checked every
battery connection as I made them to be sure that I did not have any bad
connections or any grounds. All connections and batteries checked ok at
that time. I also checked to be sure that there were no sign of voltage
between the battery pack and chassis ground. None showed up during any of
my checks. I have since check the batteries on three other occasions
without seeing any problems.
2. I started checking my battery pack today and notice that I had the
following values.
a. Negative connection of the battery pack to the positive connection
of the battery pack was 128.6 vdc
b. Last positive connection of the pack to chassis ground was 115.7
vdc.
I thought that I should not be showing any voltages from the battery pack to
chassis ground so I started investigating. I disconnected all of the
electronics including the motor and the controller to eliminate all of those
parts. The voltage measurement was the same. I then started at the very
first battery in the pack and one by one I removed the cables until I
finally was reading zero volts between the battery pack and chassis ground.
I then rechecked the last battery that I had disconnected, #8 in the pack of
20, and I noticed that I was measuring about 3.1 vdc from chassis ground to
the positive terminal on this battery without any cables connected to the
battery in question. Now, maybe I am wrong but I did not think that this
was possible. I then removed the battery from the battery box to be sure
that it was not shorting in some other manner. I also checked the water
level and the level was correct for lead acid batteries. With the battery
sitting on the ground beside of the truck, I again measure the chassis
ground and the battery positive lug. I was still reading about 3.1 vdc.
The battery and the truck had no physical connection. I do not understand
how this could happen. I would appreciate any ideas from the group as to
what caused this. I am going to replace the battery but I do not understand
how you can measure a voltage between two objects that have no physical
connection. The battery in question measured 6.3 vdc from the positive lug
to the negative lug.
Thanks, Fred
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Randii, I think you might have to bear in mind that being
> a community list you are more than likely going to see more
> of the 'I have a problem can you help' sort of messages...
Good point. As with most things, problems are spoken of more frequently
than successes. Even more-so in a support community, regardless of EV,
ICE, make, model, what-have-you. I sha'nt paint EVs with a broad brush,
but I retain a healthy skepticism.
I'm simply trying to fathom failures, and assess my odds of success.
Mechanically, I have swapped fuel-injected ICE motors and made them work
in their new environs -- I have the tools and skills to fabricate and
weld, so I'm not challenged by the mechanics of assembling an EV, though
I'll admit that I worry about the practicality (time and dollars) of
maintaining the batteries and charging system thereafter.
Randii
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
A good place to start would be the design that was posted to the list
last week. The archived thread can be found here:
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/ev-list-archive/message/84758
Read through all of it for many useful tips.
On 1/30/07, Mike Harvey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hey All,
We are in the midst of planning our next pet project and would like to design
in some meaningful data acquisition. I was wondering what experiences you all
had in the area and what sucesses or failures (especially with hardware and
integration) I should take into account during design. Also, what would be the
most meaningful metrics to gather over time for trending and tuning purposes.
In short, we're planning an AC drive system and a Lithium pack with BMS. So,
any experiences is these areas would be especially helpful.
Regards, Mike
Mike Harvey
Harvey Coachworks and EV
(877) 841-9730
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--
www.electric-lemon.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Try 8 inch diameter tires like those on Orange Juice.
At 05:47 PM 1/30/2007, you wrote:
In a message dated 1/30/2007 3:57:51 PM Pacific Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> j: Re: 6 wheels, 8 motors, Zilla 2K, and 880 A123 Cells = 10.9
> Date:1/30/2007 3:57:51 PM Pacific Standard Time
> From:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Reply-to:ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> To:ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Received from Internet:
>
>
>
>
> >Don
> >Gartlis has written about the merits of the small tire setup as
> >Shawn has on the OJ
> >dragster.So Shawn give that setup a few more
> >trys.
>
> In theory, there is no difference between theory and
> practice, but in practice..... :-)
>
> The ICE drag racing folks have been at this for 50 years. A
> ton of time, money, and runs down the track have been devoted to
> improving traction. If there were any way to get a tiny bit more
> traction, they would be doing it.
>
> The smartest move is to find the very fastest car that has
> about the same weight and HP that you do, then copy the tires and
> chassis design. It is very unlikely that you are going to do any
> better, especially during your first few years on the track.
>
> Narrow track, tall wrinkle sidewalls, wide contact patch =
> good traction and stability on the drag strip.
>
> When EVs start going faster than ICEs on the drag strip,
> then we will have to figure out how to get more traction than they do.
>
> Bill Dube
*********** A Quote fron Don Gartlis as written in the summit log
book.....Less tire means more power,"In sportsman racing where
horsepower is limited,you
can make more use of your avaible horsepower by pairing small diameter tires
with a large gear ratio.It takes more power to spin a larger
tire.Therefore,you
can save horsepower with the smaller tires and apply it to a larger gear in
the differential to achive a performance
boost"
This is
a true statement as I am now going 6mph faster with a smaller tire on the CE
dragster for the same power out of the batteries.Bracket racing 11.90 at
121mph.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm confused. Are they claiming that the smaller cells that these
batteries are made from are NOT manufactured under the cobasys patent?
What cells are they using then? I was under the impression that the whole
NiMH concept was patented.
>
> Some answers were apparently procured by Doug:
>
> On Tue, 30 Jan 2007 21:56:07 -0000, "doug korthof"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> In a conversation with Martha Jensen and Richard Howlett of Niland
> Batteries, it was revealed that:
>
> These batteries don't use the Cobasys patents;
>
> They are 9 A/H, 24v and 5 P/E, each one capable of 1.5 kW power draw;
>
> Weighing 3.9 kG each, with 20 NiMH 1.2v cells, each battery contains
> 240 Wh of enerry;
>
> Hooked up in 4-parallel/15-series, the 60 module pack would weigh
> about 600 lbs. and contain up to 14.4kWh (240*60);
>
> Each module retails for $200, or about $800/kWh, making the entire
> pack of 14.4 kWh about $12,000.
>
> The weight is a bit more than the Toyota-Panasonic EV-95 110 A/H
> batteries in the Toyota RAV4-EV, possibly due to packaging.
>
> I'm considering using them in one of our conversions, they would
> REALLY do well in a low-power conversion such as a VW bug, or old S-
> 10 "9-inch"/Curtis configurations.
>
> For the AC-150, it might have enough power; certainly, the range
> would be closer to 90 miles than the 60 we were getting with the
> latter-day Optima YT batteries, because the 600 lbs. would be much
> less than the current 1300 lbs. of YT.
>
> Questions remain, about the regulators and overcharging devices,
> longevity-cycle life, etc. I think if you could lease these
> batteries, they would be a viable alternative to Optima YT in all
> ways.
>
>
> --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], murdoch
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Martha Jensen
>> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 11:01 AM
>> Subject: [RAV4-EV] PHEV conversions and Batteries
>>
>>
>> I apologize in advance as this is slightly off-topic. I'm working
> at
>> a NiMH battery start-up that would like to get batteries into HEVs
> and
>> PHEVs. We're looking for people that are interested in doing a
> PHEV
>> conversion to test some batteries for us. We would arrange a
>> below-market lease for the batteries, as well as some technical
>> assistance in performing the conversion, in exchange for regular
> data
>> dumps and information on performance.
>>
>> If you or anyone you know are interested, please contact me and I
> will
>> provide more information on the program. We are located in the
> Denver
>> Colorado area, and would give preference to people located in
>> geographical proximity for logistical reasons.
>>
>> Martha Jensen
>> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> V (303) 662-8891
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hmm, I would have to say...huh??
> Out of curiosity, does anyone know why the RAV4 listing was canceled? I
> was a bidder on it, and I thought it was being listed by a reputable
> group.
>
> Odd
> Chris
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Another one we/I can't afford:
http://jalopnik.com/cars/alternative-energy/hybrid-technologies-launches-electric-mullen-sports-car-232656.php
--
Paul Wujek ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 30 Jan 2007 at 17:27, murdoch wrote:
> Weighing 3.9 kG each, with 20 NiMH 1.2v cells, each battery contains
> 240 Wh of energy;
Specific energy about 60 Wh/kg. Decent.
>
> Hooked up in 4-parallel/15-series, the 60 module pack would weigh
> about 600 lbs. and contain up to 14.4kWh (240*60);
Twenty-four Saft STM5-100MR modules will deliver over 15kWh nominal
(17kWh at its peak between 100 and 1000 cycles) and weighs 310kg (680
lb). This is a specific energy of 48-55 Wh/kg. Still respectable.
There is no need to parallel Saft modules and thus there are no parallel
charging problems. (But Safts require a pretty smart charger.)
>
> Each module retails for $200, or about $800/kWh, making the entire
> pack of 14.4 kWh about $12,000.
The Saft 15kWh nominal pack will set you back $13,200. It will last for
between 2000 and 3500 cycles. The question is, how long will the Nilar
battery last?
Saft nicads are an established battery technology and available off the shelf.
That has some advantages. But they are not cheap, largely because of the
US dollar's weakness against the euro.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If they've been sitting around for an extended period and not kept
charged, they are most likely toast.
Any of them that have a voltage (right now) of over 10.5 volts /might/ be
salveable.
Any with a voltage less than 10V probably aren't worth wasting your time
on, though I guess it depends on how much is he offering to pay you to
hual them off.
> Howdy,
>
> I was calling around to golf courses to see if anyone had any decent used
> Trojans I could buy from them and came across a guy who has a "bunch that
> have been sitting here for a long time" that he seemed willing to part
> with
> for cheap. What are the chances that any of them are any good after
> sitting
> for who knows how long? Can batteries that have been sitting be
> rehabilitated? Is it worth trying?
>
> If there is a possibility of some rehab candidates, is there any easy way
> short of charging them for several hours to pick out ones that will be
> more
> likely to come back to life?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Matt
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm pretty sure that lithium is very common in many compounds just not in
pure form. I think we have lots of it so i wouldn't worry. Like hydrogen.
Hydrogen is really common but not in its pure form. Water, hydrocarbons...
From: Steven Lough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List RCVR <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Subject: Should I say "Peak Lithium" ?
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 09:48:32 -0800
Read this story yesterday, on Bill Moor's EVWorld. He hinted to it last
week. ( http://www.evworld.com/view.cfm?page=article&storyid=1180 )
I guess till this guy, William Tahil, Director of Research for Meridian
International Research started to look at the world supply of lithium, no
one gave it a thought..
It is a little scary, and disheartening, to think that our "holy grail" of
battery technology is already talked about as if it only has a 40 year
run...
Would like some one to prove this guy wrong... Before all the Nay -Sayers
get a hold of the story and start to RUN with it. Like
"Electric Car HOPES Dead on Arrival" or "Running out of Future Batteries
before they START" and other such nonsense.
--
Steven S. Lough, Pres.
Seattle EV Association
6021 32nd Ave. N.E.
Seattle, WA 98115-7230
Day: 206 850-8535
Eve: 206 524-1351
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web: http://www.seattleeva.org
_________________________________________________________________
Your Space. Your Friends. Your Stories. Share your world with Windows Live
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
When do the NIMH battery patents run out? Can cheveron buy them back?
From: "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: RE: Should I say 'Peak Lithium' ?
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 14:36:43 -0700 (MST)
I don't have all the facts, so I'll partially retract my previous
statement.
I still disagree that we will "run out" of lithium, however I do see that
it will get more expensive. How will this effect the cost of Lithium
based batteries?
Well, in the long run, I doubt it will have a significant impact. If
production of Lithium batteries increases to the point where supply/demand
increases the price of lithium, then the same supply/demand mass scale
production would logically reduce the production costs of the batteries.
Since the cost of lithium represents less than 10% of the cost of the
finished Li-Pol/Li-Ion battery, it seems to me that the cost will STILL go
down even if the price of Lithium doubles or perhaps triples.
Then of course there's the fact that long before this happens, the patents
will run out on NiMH batteries and, even if they aren't as good as Lithium
based cells, they are much cheaper to produce.
Not to mention any other storage methods that get perfected before then.
>> Also, using lithium in batteries doesn't use it up, like burning
>> petroleum. The worn out batteries are recyclable.
>>
>> And this doesn't even address all of the errors in the article.
>
> Perhaps you didn't read the author's responses to all the critiques to
his
> article.
> I read them all. In the end, I think only one critic remained
> unconvinced.
>
> -Myles
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
_________________________________________________________________
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Can batteries that have been sitting be rehabilitated? Is it worth trying?
> Matt
It isn't worth trying. The method is:
1) discharge
2) dump out the current fluid into plastic bucket
3) fill with distilled water
4) charge at about 4 amps, until the voltage levels off
5) repeat 2-5
6) dump out the current fluid into plastic bucket
7) fill with new battery acid mixture
8) take bucket of lead sulfate to recycle yard
This cleans off the sulfated lead from the plates. The batteries won't
be like new afterwards, but they will be somewhat better than before.
Brian
Alfa Romeo Electric Conversion
http://www.skewray.com/alfa
--
Brian M. Sutin, Ph.D. Space System Engineering and Optical Design
Skewray Research/316 W Green St/Claremont CA 91711 USA/(909) 621-3122
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
how to see the archives and that looong thread ?
(since may 2006, i've got real life data on ICE .. where
50 to 80% extra mileage gains were the result of PnG ..
i thought that this may apply to EV's now .. but alas !)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Evan Tuer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 10:02 PM
Subject: Re: pulse n glide .. regen .. (was Re: Brake lights on regen - so
lved) .. part 3
> On 1/30/07, Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Peekay,
> >
> > I am giving an overview why PnG does not work for EVs in
> > another post, more info in the archives as well.
>
>
> Actually, there's plenty of info in a very long thread from May last year,
> where Peekay asked the same question ;)
>
>
>
> --
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1:12 PM
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>
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--- Begin Message ---
To everyone involved with Battery Beach...
Thank you for all of your hard work. My whole team had a blast and we
look to return next year!
We finished OJ and the "AGNS" (Acronym for all go no show) minibike at
12:30 pm on Thursday and headed south to Jupiter, FL.
We drove straight through, had breakfast in Cocoa at 5:30am and were at
the Moroso raceway by 9:00am. When we got there we were joined by
hundreds of millions of dollars worth of incredible Ferraris. (If I had
known we would have stowed the 308 in the trailer). I stood next to no
less than 6 different Enzos, dozens of F50's, F40's, vintage racers,
the whole lot. Bill and Derek came with the A123 battery around 11:am
and we spent the day fitting and wiring it to OJ.
The gates opened for drag racers at 6pm. We set up camp in the pits and
went through tech. We charged up, talked to a million different folks,
recorded segments and interviews for the TV show, and headed to
staging. Unfortunately, about that time a motorcycle crashed at full
speed. The driver was injured and life flighted out of the track. I do
not know his condition but our prayers are with him. This event brought
everything to a halt for 1-1/2 hrs. When we finally got in our first
test run it was after 10pm. 12.69 secs @ 116 mph with the Zilla set at
at about 1/2 available power, and easing off the line to a 2.22 60 ft
time. We charged up, did more interviews, reprogrammed for 80% power
and headed back to staging where we waited till 11:30pm for run # 2.
Upon launching the car fought traction and linear stability all the way
down the track. Brian(our awesome driver) saved it no less than 3 times
and once just before the 1/8 mile mark where he was already well over
100 mph that made me flinch. He straightened it out and coasted the
rest of the way though the lights with a 11.63 at 98 mph. Talking to
experienced racers after I realized that the biggest reason for the
lack of consistent traction on the run was that a track spray truck had
immediately proceeded Brian down the track and it was still wet, only
having seconds to evaporate. Run 2 was to be our last run of the
evening according to track officials. They were tired from a whole day
of racing and wanted to go home. Shawn Waggoner saved the day with a
last minute compromise that allowed us 1 more run if went immediately
to staging after run 2. We took what we could get and got in the
staging lane. No time to charge, no programming changes, just a drop of
air pressure from 8 to 6.5 lbs. Run 3 was still severely traction
limited but by feathering the accelerator Brian was still able to keep
the car straight. 1/8 mile was slower than run 2 at 102 mph, but he was
able to stay in the pedal most of the way and managed a 10.96 at 120.00
mph even. This car, on this track, on this night, was like trying to
drive an unloaded 2wd pickup truck up a hill on a wet road. We gave up
at least 1 1/2 seconds and 15-20 mph. The battery, Zilla, charger,
motors, all performed perfectly. We need to lower air pressure, do a
much better burnout, relocate the battery pack down low where the old
one was, and find a compromise of power and traction. This is hard to
do when you get only 3 runs on a car with new motors, new controller,
new battery, new weight distribution, etc... OK no more excuses. We
came to see single digits and we failed in that regard. But man, what
an exciting ride!!!
More to follow tomorrow. We drove straight home from FL today and I've
got to pull the kids around the yard on the snowtube then get some
SLEEP.
Shawn Lawless
________________________________________________________________________
Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and
security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Martha,
If you can help me to convert my Prius to PHEV, I will be glad to have your
batteries.
* I already have one EV (1981 VW-rabbit converted into EV) .
* My second EV will be ready by the end of this spring -- build using
Hub-motors (no transmission & differential: two hub motors, NiMH batteries, a
controller that drive both motors).
* with your help, if my Prius is converted, it will be the third.
I can try your batteries on all of them.
Thanks,
G. N. Reddy
Associate Professor of Electrical Engineering
Lamar University
Beaumont, Texas 77710
Cell: 409-656-6269
murdoch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Perhaps of interest to those keeping an eye out for new battery
approaches.
----- Original Message -----
From: Martha Jensen
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 11:01 AM
Subject: [RAV4-EV] PHEV conversions and Batteries
I apologize in advance as this is slightly off-topic. I'm working at
a NiMH battery start-up that would like to get batteries into HEVs and
PHEVs. We're looking for people that are interested in doing a PHEV
conversion to test some batteries for us. We would arrange a
below-market lease for the batteries, as well as some technical
assistance in performing the conversion, in exchange for regular data
dumps and information on performance.
If you or anyone you know are interested, please contact me and I will
provide more information on the program. We are located in the Denver
Colorado area, and would give preference to people located in
geographical proximity for logistical reasons.
Martha Jensen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
V (303) 662-8891
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
EVLN(Peugeot Dauphin E-tricycle, 186mi range, 90 mph top speed)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://blog.scifi.com/tech/archives/2007/01/30/peugeot_dauphin.html
POSTED Tuesday, January 30, 2007
Peugeot Dauphin: Electric vehicle concept is fast and efficient
This little Peugeot Dauphin might look like a harmless toy
tricycle, but it's a sophisticated concept for a full-fledged
electric vehicle by Portuguese designer Ricardo Baiao. It doesn't
make those horsey sound effects like that Girasole electric car
we showed you yesterday, but it certainly surpasses it in
distance, going 186 miles on a six-hour charge compared to the
Girasole's mere 75-mile range.
The Dauphin gets its smoothly rounded looks thanks to its highly
advanced carbon-fiber and epoxy-resin materials. This is a
wirelessly connected vehicle, too, communicating effortlessly
with your home PC so you can call up maps and directions, viewing
them on the vehicleâs heads-up display.
It's no slouch when it comes to performance, either. Pushing the
techno-tryke up to 90 mph are electric motors embedded in each
rear wheel, and once you get home, you charge the vehicle up
again by simply parking it over the Peugeot Dock/Recharging
station. It's all so effortless your only problem will be
convincing your neighbors that it's not a UFO.
Feast your eyes on more pictures of the Dauphin after the jump.
Charlie White © 2007, SCI FI. All rights reserved.
-
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor, RE & AFV newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
____________________________________________________________________________________
It's here! Your new message!
Get new email alerts with the free Yahoo! Toolbar.
http://tools.search.yahoo.com/toolbar/features/mail/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
EVLN(Lotus' 644hp E-SUV, 350mi range, 155mph top speed)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://www.mobilemag.com/content/100/354/C11550/
Lotus designs all-electric SUV, faster than Tesla Roadster
Tuesday January 30, 2007 4:06 PM PST - By: Michael Kwan
Well, I guess it's only fitting that the company that makes a
faster electric vehicle than Tesla is Lotus, given that just
about everything other than the drivetrain on the Tesla Roadster
was "borrowed" from Lotus.
Turns out that Lotus, an automaker that typically focuses on
creating lightweight sports cars, has decided to create an
all-electric SUV said to produce 644 horsepower. It's even got a
range of 350 miles (although that'll certainly be shortened if
you're riding at the 155mph top speed the entire time). Both of
those figures beat the Tesla Roadster, in case you're wondering.
The unnamed vehicle -- codeveloped by Lotus and ZAP, the latter
of which is bringing Smart Cars to the USA -- doesn't appear to
be quite as large as a conventional SUV, however, fitting more in
line with crossovers like the Mazda CX-7. A prototype is expected
at next month's North American Dealers Association (NADA) annual
meeting, so stay tuned.
© Copyright 2000-2006, Broadband Media Corporation, All Rights
Reserved.
===
http://news.com.com/Zap+teams+with+Lotus+for+electric+sports+car/2100-11389_3-6154854.html
http://blogs.motortrend.com/1013034/car-news/zap-lotus-plans-for-644-hp-electric-car-taking-shape/
http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2007/01/30/035366.html
-
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor, RE & AFV newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
____________________________________________________________________________________
Need Mail bonding?
Go to the Yahoo! Mail Q&A for great tips from Yahoo! Answers users.
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
EVLN(Voltageville vied for Tesla EV plant)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://www.thereporter.com/business/ci_5117856
Vacaville try fails for plant
By Amanda Janis/Business Editor
Article Launched: 01/30/2007 06:17:42 AM PST
For months, Vacaville's been vying for an electric vehicle
asembly plant that's valued at $100 million and would create
approximately 300 high-tech jobs.
But the chief executive for the Silcon Valley start-up scouting
locations told The Reporter that the numbers simply don't add up
to build a plant in California.
"There are some states that are very, very interested in having
green manufacturing, and California doesn't seem to be one of
them," Martin Eberhard, Tesla Motors' CEO, said in a phone
interview.
"Take, for example, New Mexico," he said. "New Mexico has made it
a very clear priority that they want to attract new companies and
especially green manufacturing - they've put a number of programs
in place to do so."
With regard to Arizona, he said, "I have had two phone calls
personally from the governor and they've proposed all kinds of
programs to make it easier for us to locate there."
And, Eberhard added, the governor of Michigan "cornered" him to
make it clear any obstacles to building its plant there would be
cleared from Tesla's path.
In California, on the other hand, Eberhard said, "I get shunted
to a fellow in the California governor's office," who, he
quipped, may as well change his name to "Dr. No." He was
basically told the state doesn't believe in business incentives,
he said.
Offers made by North Carolina and Arizona would cut the plant's
initial start-up costs by more than $15 million, while the golden
state has offered $20 million in annual tax credits on machinery
and tax credits of up to $30,000 per employee if the company
locates in an Enterprise Zone, the Silicon Valley Business
Journal reported.
But Enterprise Zones are designed to encourage development in
blighted areas, and Vacaville does not qualify for them. Nor can
it financially match the deals from other states on its own.
"Vacaville as a city made a very strong presentation to us and
was very enthusiastic," noted Eberhard. "But Vacaville can't
solve the sort of financial differences (at stake)."
"It's extraordinarily difficult to compete," admitted Mike
Palombo, Vacaville's economic development manager. "When we
started this process, we thought we had a good chance given our
history with electric vehicles, the fact that we're a
pro-business community ... and we thought we could put together a
reasonable business incentives package."
Without additional help from the state, however, the city is
limited to return-to-source type packages like the one it offered
Genentech, in which the city agreed to return a portion of the
company's property taxes for a given number of years.
City employees' long-established use of electric vehicles,
Vacaville's creation of an electric vehicle incentive program for
residents, and its location may count for something, Palombo
said.
"We believe Northern California is a hotbed of electric vehicle
use, and we're right in the middle of the market," he said.
San Ramon-based Tesla developed the Tesla Roadster, a
slick-looking, $92,000 fully electric roadster that goes from
zero to 60 miles per hour in four seconds, and runs for nearly
250 miles per charge. That vehicle is currently assembled in the
U.K. and will hit roads next year; the U.S. plant for which Tesla
is scouting locations would assemble a lower-priced sedan, dubbed
WhiteStar. WhiteStar is currently in development and expected to
reach the market in 2009.
Amanda Janis can be reached at [EMAIL PROTECTED]
-
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor, RE & AFV newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
____________________________________________________________________________________
Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels
in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit.
http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
EVLN(The new American nEV)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://www.wilx.com/news/headlines/5407061.html
Bernero Talks Jobs, Green Technology, Downtown Development
Reporter: Tony Tagliavia [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Looking Forward In Lansing
[Video
http://ww2.wilx.com/global/video/popup/pop_player.asp?ClipID1=1203660
]
"Our first ever electric utility vehicle," Lansing Mayor Virg
Bernero announced before more than 200 people gathered for his
second State of the City address.
The new American Electric vehicle [ http://getkurrent.com ],
which could be used for traffic ticket duty, arrived just in
time for the speech. It's just one car, but the mayor says he
hopes to replace some other existing city cars with hybrid,
flexfuel or electric vehicles.
He also announced plans to use biodiesel in the city's truck
fleet.
"What are we doing in the year 2007 with gas-propelled vehicles?"
the mayor asked in an interview after the address.
Bernero also addressed the regional economy.
"Only one metropolitan area in the entire state posted job gains
this last year," he said, citing U.S. Labor Department
statistics. "It was Lansing, Michigan."
And Mayor Bernero used the backdrop of computer firm ACD.net to
tout its growth and that of other tech firms. He also outlined a
plan for more job training.
"On the one hand, I've got people looking for jobs; on the other
hand, I've got CEOs looking for workers," the mayor said. The
plan will be a collaboration between Lansing Community College,
Michigan State University and Capital Area Michigan Works.
The plan is appealing to the newest member of the city council.
Derrick Quinney says residents are hurting for jobs.
"Anything we can do to help them...that's what I want to do," he
said.
Downtown development was also high on the mayor's list. He
proposed merging the downtown Capital Area District Library
branch with the Impression 5 science center.
"We've got a couple of possible sites," the mayor said after the
speech.
That speech included brief mention of a plan to bring a
performing arts center to downtown. Bernero said after the speech
that the city already has private- and public-sector partners for
the project.
Like a State of the Union or State of the State address, the
mayor's remarks did include budget plans.
"We can't seem to shake old habits," he said.
Mayor Bernero drew a line in the sand, saying the city can't dip
into rainy day funds to avoid cutting city jobs.
"He drew a line in the sand last year and he did cross that
line," Councilmember Carol Wood countered in an interview
following the address.
Wood says residents want to maintain services and that could mean
dipping further into reserves.
In closing, the mayor invoked the theme of the speech:
"Lansing is on the move," Bernero said. "Momentum is on our
side."
Now the question is whether momentum will be on the mayor's side
as he readies a budget plan for the council.
-
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor, RE & AFV newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
____________________________________________________________________________________
Have a burning question?
Go to www.Answers.yahoo.com and get answers from real people who know.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
EVLN(Girasole LSV's horse galloping sound)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://blog.scifi.com/tech/archives/2007/01/29/girasole_electr.html
POSTED Monday, January 29, 2007
[ http://blog.scifi.com/tech/pics/girasole.gif ]
Girasole electric car sounds like a horse galloping
This Girasole electric car juices up at a regular wall outlet for
about $1 worth of energy, has a top speed of 45MPH, and can
travel 75 miles before needing a recharge. OK, I'm with you so
far. What makes it stand out from the crowd of other relatively
impractical electric cars?
Well, since it runs so quietly people worried that it wouldn't
warn pedestrians of its impending arrival. The solution? Horse
hooves, of course. Yes, the Girasole electric car sounds like a
horse galloping as it approaches, a throwback to a time that no
one on this planet was alive for. Call me crazy, but the sound of
a horse flying at me would be more confusing than reasonably
warning. But hey, I guess any loud sound would work. Why not
create a car that sounds like an old man coughing? Get out of the
way! I hear that phlegmy cough coming around the corner! No? Ah
well. Adam Frucci
Reuters, via Engadget
===
http://www.timesnow.tv/Sections/Sports/Electric_car_unveiled_in_Japan/articleshow/1522987.cms
Electric car unveiled in Japan
Monday, January 29, 2007 08:31:07 pm
Girasole -- one of Japan's first fully functional electric town
car
In one of the most remarkable innovation, car developer and
importer Yoshio Takaoka, CEO of Auto EV and Girasole
co-developer, has launched -- Girasole -- one of Japan's first
fully functional electric town car. Rechargeable at home and at
the price of an average middle class car, an electric car built
in collaboration by Italians and Japanese is aiming to be the
first practical option for Japanese households looking for green
personal travel.
While it's still uncertain whether the Japanese-Italian electric
car will have an environmental impact on the streets of Japan, it
is certain to help the average driver's household budget, thereby
making it indeed the dream household electric appliance."
This highway-worthy two seater light vehicle comfortably reaches
speeds of sixty five kilometers per hour and travels distances of
up to a hundred twenty kilometers on a full battery --- which
itself can be recharged from a home power outlet in less than
five hours.
Currently, Japanese electricity rates can amount to under a
dollar's worth for a full run. The greatest source of global air
pollution is believed to be from automobile exhausts. And
Takaoka's silent electric car is certain free of that. Yoshio
Takaoka, CEO of Auto EV and Girasole co-developer,
said:"Previously, I was a polluter but as I grew older, I felt I
had to do penance for this and do something good in return."
However, though the car is impressive, its silence can cause
problem in crowded neighborhoods or in the vicinity of the
sight-impaired. Takaoka has solved this by adding optional sounds
to the car - like the sound of horse hooves hitting pavement.
(Reuters) Copyright Times Global Broadcasting Co. Ltd.
-
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor, RE & AFV newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
____________________________________________________________________________________
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Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business.
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/r-index
--- End Message ---
