EV Digest 6367
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: 6 wheels, 8 motors, Zilla 2K, and 880 A123 Cells = 10.9
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
2) re: my battery fire
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
3) K&W's for sale
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
4) Re: Discharged Batteries
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) RE: Weird Battery Problem
by "Fred Hartsell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Where did the RAV4 go?
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) RE: Weird Battery Problem
by Tim Humphrey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: my battery fire
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) RE: Weird Battery Problem
by "Fred Hartsell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) RE: EVLN(Voltageville vied for Tesla EV plant)
by "Myles Twete" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) RE: Weird Battery Problem
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Where did the RAV4 go?
by Bill Dennis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Weird Battery Problem
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Issues with K&W charge
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Data Acquistion Ideas
by "Mike Harvey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: EVLN(Lotus' 644hp E-SUV, 350mi range, 155mph top speed)
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Reviving flooded batteries
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Should I say "Peak Lithium" ?
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: long thread in may 2006 about why PnG doesn't work for EV's ..
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Reviving flooded batteries
by "Matt Kenigson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: EVLN(Lotus' 644hp E-SUV, 350mi range, 155mph top speed)
by "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Discharged Batteries
by "Darin -a-t- metrompg.com" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: EVLN($24.4k Nissan Altima Hybrid)-long
by "Matt Kenigson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: K&W's for sale
by "Matt Kenigson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: EVLN(Lotus' 644hp E-SUV, 350mi range, 155mph top speed)
by Jeff Major <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: my battery fire
by "Matt Kenigson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: EVLN(Lotus' 644hp E-SUV, 350mi range, 155mph top speed)
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Bill,
Our 4 drive tires are 12"OD when inflated. I get the jist of what you
are saying but with all due respect doing things our way is what makes
the sport worth doing. The fact that there is no ONE best way is what
electric racing is all about to me. When nobody could get a rear
engine dragster down the track safely they all but one abandon the
idea. What do they all drive today? Thanks Mr Garlits.
Rest assured our new car "Juiced Up" will have MUCH larger rear tires.
But it will also have the world's only quad tandem electric race motor
that has never been tested before. Maybe it will work, maybe it won't.
Finding out will be the reward.
Shawn Lawless
PS: It will work won't it Jim H?
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Sent: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 9:04 PM
Subject: Re: 6 wheels, 8 motors, Zilla 2K, and 880 A123 Cells = 10.9
Try 8 inch diameter tires like those on Orange Juice.
At 05:47 PM 1/30/2007, you wrote:
In a message dated 1/30/2007 3:57:51 PM Pacific Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> j: Re: 6 wheels, 8 motors, Zilla 2K, and 880 A123 Cells = 10.9
> Date:1/30/2007 3:57:51 PM Pacific Standard Time
> From:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Reply-to:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> To:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Received from Internet:
>
>
>
>
> >Don
> >Gartlis has written about the merits of the small tire setup as
> >Shawn has on the OJ
> >dragster.So Shawn give that setup a few more
> >trys.
>
> In theory, there is no difference between theory and
> practice, but in practice..... :-)
>
> The ICE drag racing folks have been at this for 50 years. A
> ton of time, money, and runs down the track have been devoted to
> improving traction. If there were any way to get a tiny bit more
> traction, they would be doing it.
>
> The smartest move is to find the very fastest car that has
> about the same weight and HP that you do, then copy the tires and
> chassis design. It is very unlikely that you are going to do any
> better, especially during your first few years on the track.
>
> Narrow track, tall wrinkle sidewalls, wide contact patch =
> good traction and stability on the drag strip.
>
> When EVs start going faster than ICEs on the drag strip,
> then we will have to figure out how to get more traction than they
do.
>
> Bill Dube
*********** A Quote fron Don Gartlis as written in the summit log
book.....Less tire means more power,"In sportsman racing where
horsepower is limited,you
can make more use of your avaible horsepower by pairing small diameter
tires
with a large gear ratio.It takes more power to spin a larger
tire.Therefore,you
can save horsepower with the smaller tires and apply it to a larger
gear in
the differential to achive a performance >boost"
This is
a true statement as I am now going 6mph faster with a smaller tire on
the CE
dragster for the same power out of the batteries.Bracket racing 11.90
at
121mph.
________________________________________________________________________
Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and
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across the web, free AOL Mail and more.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
batteries are out of the vehicle.
yeah, discharging those batteries would have saved me some baking soda. I
used about 8 pounds so far (and haven't neutralized the 3rd battery.
The two melted together batteries were quite easily pried apart with a
small pry bar.
I did check the liquid levels of the good batteries, and found them all to
have liquid over top the plates (so that wouldn't have been the issue).
Distilled water level is on my montly list
Causes: If not the chaffing of insulation, this car, Brian Matheny's
originally, had buddy pairs. The buddy pair stud clamp on the long 2/0
cable from back to front is simply electrical taped. If that tape came
undone and that hit the opposing terminal, walla. spark or heat, take your
pick.
I had all intentions to cut those out and splice the line with the splice I
already purchased. All the best intentions don't count for anything when
it's too late.
Thanks for the tech support and safety recomendations. I know I looked
funny in a full body acid suit, but what the heck. I like my skin on my
body.
Ben
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If you're interested in a non functioning K&W charger (220 VAC) probably
144 VDC out
1 is the prototype
the other is beyond a prototype
both are not functional but could be repaired if you know the units enough.
$149 each OBO
shipping from NJ
Ben
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Matt Kenigson wrote:
I was calling around to golf courses to see if anyone had any decent
used Trojans...
Trojan batteries, I hope! :-)
a guy has a "bunch that have been sitting here for a long time"...
What are the chances that any of them are any good after sitting
for who knows how long?
The answer is of course, "Nobody knows." You have to test used batteries
before you know if they are worth anything at all.
Get or make a battery tester. For this purpose, it's a 6v battery
charger, a voltmeter, a load resistor that draws about 75 amps, and
watch or timer of some sort to see how long it can supply 75 amps before
it falls to 5.25v. If they can't deliver 75 amps for at least 60
minutes, they're shot -- don't waste your time or money on them.
Can batteries that have been sitting be rehabilitated?
Yes; but only if they have enough capacity to start with so you know
they aren't just dead bodies.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I appreciate that information. I am still very new at this and I appreciate
all of the help that you guys give to us newbies. I will clean the
batteries with baking soda as you suggested. I believe that is the issue in
this case as the battery does not seem to be loosing any fluids.
Thanks, Fred
-----Original Message-----
From: Lee Hart [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 12:28 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Weird Battery Problem
From: Fred Hartsell
>I am using 20 Interstate u-2400 batteries... Last positive connection of
the
>pack to chassis ground was 115.7 vdc.
You have a common problem; one that occurs sooner or later for anyone with
flooded batteries. The outside of the battery has a coating of acid mist,
which is making it slightly conductive -- enough so you can get a "tingle"
from it, and enough to read on your high-impedance meter.
Wash the batteries with water and a little baking soda to neutralize the
acid, and it will go away... for a while. As the batteries age, they gas
more, and the problem gets more frequent.
It's also possible, though less likely, that you have a cracked battery case
or a leak around a battery post. If so, the battery case will keep getting
wet again even if you don't charge it to cause any gassing.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
When purchasing something on ebay there is always the option of a buy it now
happening. If the seller has someone willing to meet their asking price why
continue the auction? It only violates the ebay rules which have no legal
weight. Lawrence Rhodes......
----- Original Message -----
From: "Christopher Zach" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 3:47 PM
Subject: Where did the RAV4 go?
> Out of curiosity, does anyone know why the RAV4 listing was canceled? I
> was a bidder on it, and I thought it was being listed by a reputable
group.
>
> Odd
> Chris
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>
> Behalf Of Lee Hart
>
> From: Fred Hartsell
>>I am using 20 Interstate u-2400 batteries... Last positive connection of
> the
>>pack to chassis ground was 115.7 vdc.
>
> You have a common problem; one that occurs sooner or later for anyone with
> flooded batteries. The outside of the battery has a coating of acid mist,
> which is making it slightly conductive -- enough so you can get a "tingle"
> from it, and enough to read on your high-impedance meter.
>
> Wash the batteries with water and a little baking soda to neutralize the
> acid, and it will go away... for a while. As the batteries age, they gas
> more, and the problem gets more frequent.
>
> It's also possible, though less likely, that you have a cracked battery
> case
> or a leak around a battery post. If so, the battery case will keep getting
> wet again even if you don't charge it to cause any gassing.
That's what I was thinking... until I came to the part where he said
"With the battery sitting on the ground beside of the truck, I again measure
the chassis ground and the battery positive lug. I was still reading about 3.1
vdc."
'splain that!
Fred you don't touch the ends of the test leads with your fingers while taking
measurements do you? Well, don't, or you may be measuring you instead.
--
Stay Charged!
Hump
I-5, Blossvale NY
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Ben,
I visit a battery plant back in 1975, that produce 2 volt cells units that
are then assembly in a battery enclosures. I was told at that time, that
the most positive and the most negative cell should be the furthest from
each other.
Also it best not to have more than 48 volts between any adjacent cells,
which may cause arc over if you either have the battery under or charging.
The maximum voltage between any two rolls of cells was 30 volts for 6 cells
per roll.
Latter, I was thinking of using 12 volts, but this would be 144 volts
between two of the batteries , so this would not work. So I settle on 6
volt batteries for a 72 volt difference between two batteries.
Charging volts betweens two batteries is 90 volts, so I took a chance and
install them this way. I made sure, I had a o-ring seal locking cap and
heavy reinforce battery cases.
At 90 volt difference, I have to keep the batteries super clean and setting
in a bed of baking soda to prevent tracking. So far this works.
The next problem I had, was shrink back with the battery post. After initial
installation of the battery links, it is recommended to torque with a
Inch-Pound torque wrench. Then drive five miles and re-torque again. I
found I would lose about 10 percent. In the next 5 miles, I would lose
about 2 percent and so on.
I notice that every time I torque the battery clamp, the top of the battery
post would pucker out the top of the battery clamp. So to solve this
problem, I install a stainless steel washer, lock washer and nut on the stud
that was on the top of these post, which I was not using and torque them to
about 100 inch lbs, which put downward pressure on this post, while the
battery clamp put side pressure on the stud.
The battery post no longer reduce in size and for the last year, the torque
value is still way above the standard specs.
It also is recommended to use a all plastic totally enclose exhaust fan to
ventilated the battery boxes, using heavy PVC flexible pipe, that may be up
to 1/4 inch thick walls. If I charge or I am running my EV, this exhaust
firsts come on for about 20 seconds to purge any fumes that may be present
before any charging or operation of the EV.
Every time that a accident happens in the electrical field, it then shows up
in the NFPA and NEC codes to prevent this action to happen. It may be
recommended that all on the road EV will will a CO2 fire suppression system.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 8:40 AM
Subject: re: my battery fire
> batteries are out of the vehicle.
>
> yeah, discharging those batteries would have saved me some baking soda. I
> used about 8 pounds so far (and haven't neutralized the 3rd battery.
> The two melted together batteries were quite easily pried apart with a
> small pry bar.
>
> I did check the liquid levels of the good batteries, and found them all to
> have liquid over top the plates (so that wouldn't have been the issue).
> Distilled water level is on my montly list
>
> Causes: If not the chaffing of insulation, this car, Brian Matheny's
> originally, had buddy pairs. The buddy pair stud clamp on the long 2/0
> cable from back to front is simply electrical taped. If that tape came
> undone and that hit the opposing terminal, walla. spark or heat, take
> your
> pick.
>
> I had all intentions to cut those out and splice the line with the splice
> I
> already purchased. All the best intentions don't count for anything when
> it's too late.
>
> Thanks for the tech support and safety recomendations. I know I looked
> funny in a full body acid suit, but what the heck. I like my skin on my
> body.
>
> Ben
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
No, I made sure that I was not touching anything with my human flesh. I
rechecked this measurement several times with the same results. I am a
newby in the EV world but I have been around computer and electronics for
about 35 years so I am not new to using a multi-meter. During that
measurement the battery and the chassis had no physical connection other
than the multi-meter and of course the air.
Thanks, Fred
-----Original Message-----
From: Tim Humphrey [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 11:46 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: RE: Weird Battery Problem
>
> Behalf Of Lee Hart
>
> From: Fred Hartsell
>>I am using 20 Interstate u-2400 batteries... Last positive connection of
> the
>>pack to chassis ground was 115.7 vdc.
>
> You have a common problem; one that occurs sooner or later for anyone with
> flooded batteries. The outside of the battery has a coating of acid mist,
> which is making it slightly conductive -- enough so you can get a "tingle"
> from it, and enough to read on your high-impedance meter.
>
> Wash the batteries with water and a little baking soda to neutralize the
> acid, and it will go away... for a while. As the batteries age, they gas
> more, and the problem gets more frequent.
>
> It's also possible, though less likely, that you have a cracked battery
> case
> or a leak around a battery post. If so, the battery case will keep getting
> wet again even if you don't charge it to cause any gassing.
That's what I was thinking... until I came to the part where he said
"With the battery sitting on the ground beside of the truck, I again measure
the chassis ground and the battery positive lug. I was still reading about
3.1 vdc."
'splain that!
Fred you don't touch the ends of the test leads with your fingers while
taking measurements do you? Well, don't, or you may be measuring you
instead.
--
Stay Charged!
Hump
I-5, Blossvale NY
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Maybe Tesla should work a deal out with Daimler/Freightliner in Portland.
Last week Freightliner announced 800 local layoffs and the ending of
Freightliner Truck production in Portland. An entire assembly line factory
is being shut down and assembly robots and equipment are being sent
elsewhere.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of bruce parmenter
> Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 8:26 PM
> To: evlist
> Subject: EVLN(Voltageville vied for Tesla EV plant)
>
>
> EVLN(Voltageville vied for Tesla EV plant)
> [The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
> informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
> --- {EVangel}
> http://www.thereporter.com/business/ci_5117856
> Vacaville try fails for plant
> By Amanda Janis/Business Editor
> Article Launched: 01/30/2007 06:17:42 AM PST
>
> For months, Vacaville's been vying for an electric vehicle
> asembly plant that's valued at $100 million and would create
> approximately 300 high-tech jobs.
>
> But the chief executive for the Silcon Valley start-up scouting
> locations told The Reporter that the numbers simply don't add up
> to build a plant in California.
>
> "There are some states that are very, very interested in having
> green manufacturing, and California doesn't seem to be one of
> them," Martin Eberhard, Tesla Motors' CEO, said in a phone
> interview.
>
> "Take, for example, New Mexico," he said. "New Mexico has made it
> a very clear priority that they want to attract new companies and
> especially green manufacturing - they've put a number of programs
> in place to do so."
>
> With regard to Arizona, he said, "I have had two phone calls
> personally from the governor and they've proposed all kinds of
> programs to make it easier for us to locate there."
>
> And, Eberhard added, the governor of Michigan "cornered" him to
> make it clear any obstacles to building its plant there would be
> cleared from Tesla's path.
>
> In California, on the other hand, Eberhard said, "I get shunted
> to a fellow in the California governor's office," who, he
> quipped, may as well change his name to "Dr. No." He was
> basically told the state doesn't believe in business incentives,
> he said.
>
> Offers made by North Carolina and Arizona would cut the plant's
> initial start-up costs by more than $15 million, while the golden
> state has offered $20 million in annual tax credits on machinery
> and tax credits of up to $30,000 per employee if the company
> locates in an Enterprise Zone, the Silicon Valley Business
> Journal reported.
>
> But Enterprise Zones are designed to encourage development in
> blighted areas, and Vacaville does not qualify for them. Nor can
> it financially match the deals from other states on its own.
>
> "Vacaville as a city made a very strong presentation to us and
> was very enthusiastic," noted Eberhard. "But Vacaville can't
> solve the sort of financial differences (at stake)."
>
> "It's extraordinarily difficult to compete," admitted Mike
> Palombo, Vacaville's economic development manager. "When we
> started this process, we thought we had a good chance given our
> history with electric vehicles, the fact that we're a
> pro-business community ... and we thought we could put together a
> reasonable business incentives package."
>
> Without additional help from the state, however, the city is
> limited to return-to-source type packages like the one it offered
> Genentech, in which the city agreed to return a portion of the
> company's property taxes for a given number of years.
>
> City employees' long-established use of electric vehicles,
> Vacaville's creation of an electric vehicle incentive program for
> residents, and its location may count for something, Palombo
> said.
>
> "We believe Northern California is a hotbed of electric vehicle
> use, and we're right in the middle of the market," he said.
>
> San Ramon-based Tesla developed the Tesla Roadster, a
> slick-looking, $92,000 fully electric roadster that goes from
> zero to 60 miles per hour in four seconds, and runs for nearly
> 250 miles per charge. That vehicle is currently assembled in the
> U.K. and will hit roads next year; the U.S. plant for which Tesla
> is scouting locations would assemble a lower-priced sedan, dubbed
> WhiteStar. WhiteStar is currently in development and expected to
> reach the market in 2009.
>
> Amanda Janis can be reached at [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> -
>
>
>
>
> Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
>
> ' ____
> ~/__|o\__
> '@----- @'---(=
> . http://geocities.com/brucedp/
> . EV List Editor, RE & AFV newswires
> . (originator of the above ASCII art)
> ===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________________________
> __________________
> Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels
> in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit.
> http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
And the ground.
> No, I made sure that I was not touching anything with my human flesh. I
> rechecked this measurement several times with the same results. I am a
> newby in the EV world but I have been around computer and electronics for
> about 35 years so I am not new to using a multi-meter. During that
> measurement the battery and the chassis had no physical connection other
> than the multi-meter and of course the air.
>
> Thanks, Fred
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tim Humphrey [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 11:46 AM
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: RE: Weird Battery Problem
>
>
>>
>> Behalf Of Lee Hart
>>
>> From: Fred Hartsell
>>>I am using 20 Interstate u-2400 batteries... Last positive connection of
>> the
>>>pack to chassis ground was 115.7 vdc.
>>
>> You have a common problem; one that occurs sooner or later for anyone
>> with
>> flooded batteries. The outside of the battery has a coating of acid
>> mist,
>> which is making it slightly conductive -- enough so you can get a
>> "tingle"
>> from it, and enough to read on your high-impedance meter.
>>
>> Wash the batteries with water and a little baking soda to neutralize the
>> acid, and it will go away... for a while. As the batteries age, they gas
>> more, and the problem gets more frequent.
>>
>> It's also possible, though less likely, that you have a cracked battery
>> case
>> or a leak around a battery post. If so, the battery case will keep
>> getting
>> wet again even if you don't charge it to cause any gassing.
>
> That's what I was thinking... until I came to the part where he said
>
> "With the battery sitting on the ground beside of the truck, I again
> measure
> the chassis ground and the battery positive lug. I was still reading
> about
> 3.1 vdc."
>
> 'splain that!
>
> Fred you don't touch the ends of the test leads with your fingers while
> taking measurements do you? Well, don't, or you may be measuring you
> instead.
> --
> Stay Charged!
> Hump
> I-5, Blossvale NY
>
>
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lawrence,
I don't think there is "always" a Buy It Now option. The seller can
choose to include it or not. Or did you mean something else?
Bill Dennis
Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
When purchasing something on ebay there is always the option of a buy it now
happening. If the seller has someone willing to meet their asking price why
continue the auction? It only violates the ebay rules which have no legal
weight. Lawrence Rhodes......
----- Original Message -----
From: "Christopher Zach" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 3:47 PM
Subject: Where did the RAV4 go?
Out of curiosity, does anyone know why the RAV4 listing was canceled? I
was a bidder on it, and I thought it was being listed by a reputable
group.
Odd
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Tim Humphrey wrote:
... until I came to the part where he said
"With the battery sitting on the ground beside of the truck, I again
measure the chassis ground and the battery positive lug. I was still
reading about 3.1 vdc."
'splain that!
I took that to mean a) the battery case was wet/dirty, b) the concrete
floor had enough moisture content to be slightly conductive, and c) the
car itself was also grounded, either from the charger's ground wire or
just moisture and dirt on the tires. The resistance of these wet/dirty
connections would be megohms, but the meter is such a high impedance
that it could still measure voltage.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Matt Kenigson wrote:
Will it harm the other batteries to run with that 4-volt battery in
the pack?
Get the 4v one out of there. It won't hurt the other batteries, but the
bad cell can easily fail in a dramatic fashion, and make a real mess!
For example, the high current through it being forced by the otehr
batteries in the string can boil the electrolyte, warp the case, cause
shorts and intermittents that can ignite hydrogen, and cause all sorts
of collateral damage.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks Peter. I f was following that thread over the past few weeks, and it
looks very promising for an open source design. I think the Lipo pack we go
with will include the BMS which would be integrated into the system-wide
data acquisition we're looking for. My inquiry was more aimed at total
vehicle performance data, power consumption control and tuning (not
exclusively BMS or battmon for the sake of implementing LiPo safely in an
EV). Im interested in in what data people are gathering and what value they
have gotten out of it.
Regards, Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Gabrielsson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 9:03 PM
Subject: Re: Data Acquistion Ideas
A good place to start would be the design that was posted to the list
last week. The archived thread can be found here:
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/ev-list-archive/message/84758
Read through all of it for many useful tips.
On 1/30/07, Mike Harvey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hey All,
We are in the midst of planning our next pet project and would like to
design in some meaningful data acquisition. I was wondering what
experiences you all had in the area and what sucesses or failures
(especially with hardware and integration) I should take into account
during design. Also, what would be the most meaningful metrics to gather
over time for trending and tuning purposes.
In short, we're planning an AC drive system and a Lithium pack with BMS.
So, any experiences is these areas would be especially helpful.
Regards, Mike
Mike Harvey
Harvey Coachworks and EV
(877) 841-9730
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--
www.electric-lemon.com
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On 30 Jan 2007 at 20:23, bruce parmenter wrote:
> ... all-electric SUV ... codeveloped by Lotus and ZAP ...
Let me guess. This news release came from Zap, not Lotus.
[Uncovers eyes.] Was I right? Did I win? ;-)
Perhaps I'm just a cynic. But it seems to me that Zap and the late,
unlamented BAT have more in common than a 3-letter name.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Administrator
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On 30 Jan 2007 at 18:53, Brian M. Sutin wrote:
> The method [to "rehabilitate" old batteries] is: (etc.)
This is an old EVers trick. It will get you a few more cycles. But you've
restored the capacity of the electrolyte without a concomitant restoration
of the electrodes' capacity. Now you will overdischarge the plates on every
cycle. This will finish off the battery even faster.
Bottom line (IMO) for good battery performance :
1. Add nothing to your battery but clean distilled water.
2. Discharge it at rates appropriate to its design and don't exceed 80% DOD.
3. Using a smart charger (or smart and attentive person ;-), charge it
promptly and completely. *
4. Keep it clean.
5. If it doesn't have enough capacity to do its job, replace it.
There are no "miracle cures" that have any lasting effect. Lost capacity
can't be recovered.
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*See Lee Hart's basic charging instructions here :
http://www.evdl.org/pages/hartcharge.html
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Administrator
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On 30 Jan 2007 at 20:06, damon henry wrote:
> Actually I would argue that what makes EVs bad is that we do not have any good
> ways to store electricity in an EV environment.
Haven't I heard this somewhere before?
Ah, here it is - "It's the battery, stupid." That's always the reason that
EVs are alleged to be impractical (or, in this case, "bad").
Move along, folks; nothing to see here. ;-)
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Administrator
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On 31 Jan 2007 at 9:01, peekay wrote:
> how to see the archives and that looong thread ?
The principal EVDL archives are listed on this page :
http://www.evdl.org/help/
You probably want the Yahoo Groups single message archive.
If you'd read the list on a computer, you could save the threads that are
addressed to you, or of particular interest to you, for future reference. ;-
)
> 50 to 80% extra mileage gains were the result of PnG ...
An EV and ICE are very different creatures with very different strategies
for efficiency.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Administrator
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Where does one get "new battery acid mixture"? Is it just a particular
titration of H2SO4?
Also, is there enough lead left in the system to make up for the lost lead
sulfate?
Is your comment of "it isn't worth trying" because of the tedious process?
Not disagreeing, just not completely clear on it yet.
Thanks!
Matt
On 1/30/07, Brian M. Sutin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Can batteries that have been sitting be rehabilitated? Is it worth
trying?
> Matt
It isn't worth trying. The method is:
1) discharge
2) dump out the current fluid into plastic bucket
3) fill with distilled water
4) charge at about 4 amps, until the voltage levels off
5) repeat 2-5
6) dump out the current fluid into plastic bucket
7) fill with new battery acid mixture
8) take bucket of lead sulfate to recycle yard
This cleans off the sulfated lead from the plates. The batteries won't
be like new afterwards, but they will be somewhat better than before.
Brian
Alfa Romeo Electric Conversion
http://www.skewray.com/alfa
--
Brian M. Sutin, Ph.D. Space System Engineering and Optical Design
Skewray Research/316 W Green St/Claremont CA 91711 USA/(909) 621-3122
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> > ... all-electric SUV ... codeveloped by Lotus and ZAP ...
>
> Let me guess. This news release came from Zap, not Lotus.
>
> [Uncovers eyes.] Was I right? Did I win? ;-)
>
> Perhaps I'm just a cynic. But it seems to me that Zap and the late,
> unlamented BAT have more in common than a 3-letter name.
>
> David Roden
I thought the same thing, but I went to the Lotus site, and they have
the same info: http://www.grouplotus.com/mediactr/
Whether that means ZAP has improved their business model or Lotus has
been hoodwinked remains to be seen.
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Lee Hart wrote:
Get or make a battery tester. For this purpose, it's a 6v battery
charger, a voltmeter, a load resistor that draws about 75 amps, and
watch or timer of some sort to see how long it can supply 75 amps before
it falls to 5.25v. If they can't deliver 75 amps for at least 60
minutes, they're shot -- don't waste your time or money on them.
So clearly the automotive battery tester I have isn't good enough to
properly load test my freebie 6v floodies. Both its resistance and
recommended test duration is too low.
Any suggestions on what kind of commonly available 75a load I could hook
up to a 6v battery to test it?
I had read in the archive that someone had made a load tester with a
length of coat hanger wire immersed in a bucket of water, connected to
the battery with jumper cables. Is there an easier DIY method that
could be calibrated to 75a?
Darin
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I live in Nashville. I'll find out if they give production line tours. The
drivetrain is undoubtedly manufactured elsewhere, but getting to see the
assembly might be cool. :)
On 1/30/07, bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
[snip}
The new Altima is assembled at the Nissan North America
Manufacturing Smyrna, Tennessee plant.
-
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How did you end up with them? Do you have any more technical specs?
Matt
On 1/31/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
If you're interested in a non functioning K&W charger (220 VAC) probably
144 VDC out
1 is the prototype
the other is beyond a prototype
both are not functional but could be repaired if you know the units
enough.
$149 each OBO
shipping from NJ
Ben
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The way I read this is that they will display the Lotus APX gasoline car in
Feb. and start "first phase...engineering project" for electric version. Talk
is cheap. Show me a 500 KW battery which will fit in that car and 161 HP wheel
motors. Dream on.
Jeff Major
Death to All Spammers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > ... all-electric SUV ... codeveloped by Lotus and ZAP ...
>
> Let me guess. This news release came from Zap, not Lotus.
>
> [Uncovers eyes.] Was I right? Did I win? ;-)
>
> Perhaps I'm just a cynic. But it seems to me that Zap and the late,
> unlamented BAT have more in common than a 3-letter name.
>
> David Roden
I thought the same thing, but I went to the Lotus site, and they have
the same info: http://www.grouplotus.com/mediactr/
Whether that means ZAP has improved their business model or Lotus has
been hoodwinked remains to be seen.
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Roland,
Perhaps I misunderstand your post, but should I be concerned about my
setup? In my pack, battery #1 and battery #20, which go in and out from the
pack, are right next to each other.
Matt
On 1/31/07, Roland Wiench <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hello Ben,
I visit a battery plant back in 1975, that produce 2 volt cells units that
are then assembly in a battery enclosures. I was told at that time, that
the most positive and the most negative cell should be the furthest from
each other.
Also it best not to have more than 48 volts between any adjacent cells,
which may cause arc over if you either have the battery under or charging.
The maximum voltage between any two rolls of cells was 30 volts for 6
cells
per roll.
Latter, I was thinking of using 12 volts, but this would be 144 volts
between two of the batteries , so this would not work. So I settle on 6
volt batteries for a 72 volt difference between two batteries.
Charging volts betweens two batteries is 90 volts, so I took a chance and
install them this way. I made sure, I had a o-ring seal locking cap and
heavy reinforce battery cases.
At 90 volt difference, I have to keep the batteries super clean and
setting
in a bed of baking soda to prevent tracking. So far this works.
The next problem I had, was shrink back with the battery post. After
initial
installation of the battery links, it is recommended to torque with a
Inch-Pound torque wrench. Then drive five miles and re-torque again. I
found I would lose about 10 percent. In the next 5 miles, I would lose
about 2 percent and so on.
I notice that every time I torque the battery clamp, the top of the
battery
post would pucker out the top of the battery clamp. So to solve this
problem, I install a stainless steel washer, lock washer and nut on the
stud
that was on the top of these post, which I was not using and torque them
to
about 100 inch lbs, which put downward pressure on this post, while the
battery clamp put side pressure on the stud.
The battery post no longer reduce in size and for the last year, the
torque
value is still way above the standard specs.
It also is recommended to use a all plastic totally enclose exhaust fan to
ventilated the battery boxes, using heavy PVC flexible pipe, that may be
up
to 1/4 inch thick walls. If I charge or I am running my EV, this exhaust
firsts come on for about 20 seconds to purge any fumes that may be present
before any charging or operation of the EV.
Every time that a accident happens in the electrical field, it then shows
up
in the NFPA and NEC codes to prevent this action to happen. It may be
recommended that all on the road EV will will a CO2 fire suppression
system.
Roland
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Here is a six letter word for you: Touché!
Roderick Wilde
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 10:37 AM
Subject: Re: EVLN(Lotus' 644hp E-SUV, 350mi range, 155mph top speed)
On 30 Jan 2007 at 20:23, bruce parmenter wrote:
... all-electric SUV ... codeveloped by Lotus and ZAP ...
Let me guess. This news release came from Zap, not Lotus.
[Uncovers eyes.] Was I right? Did I win? ;-)
Perhaps I'm just a cynic. But it seems to me that Zap and the late,
unlamented BAT have more in common than a 3-letter name.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Administrator
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Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation,
or switch to digest mode? See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Note: mail sent to "evpost" or "etpost" addresses will not reach me.
To send a private message, please obtain my email address from
the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
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