EV Digest 6369
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) RE: Rebates/Incentives/Credits, Was: Debating purchasing an EV
by [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Dana Havranek)
2) Jessie James should build electric motorcycles
by Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) RE: Distilled water sources. Was: Re: Reviving flooded batteries
by TiM M <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Where did the RAV4 go?
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Jessie James should build electric motorcycles
by MIKE WILLMON <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Distilled water sources. Was: Re: Reviving flooded batteries
by "Doc Kennedy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: my battery fire
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Discharged Batteries
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: EVLN(Lotus' 644hp E-SUV, 350mi range, 155mph top speed)
by "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Distilled water sources.
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Jessie James should build electric motorcycles
by "Dmitri" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: EVLN(Lotus' 644hp E-SUV, 350mi range, 155mph top speed)
by "Jay Caplan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) RE: Weird Battery Problem
by "Fred Hartsell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Jessie James should build electric motorcycles
by lyle sloan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Where did the RAV4 go?
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Distilled water sources. Was: Re: Reviving flooded batteries
by "Matt Kenigson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: EVLN(Lotus' 644hp E-SUV, 350mi range, 155mph top speed)
by Bill Dube <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Battery Washing, was: Re: my battery fire
by "Matt Kenigson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) 8D verses 6 Volt batteries
by xx xx <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Distilled water sources. Was: Re: Reviving flooded batteries
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: EVLN(Lotus' 644hp E-SUV, 350mi range, 155mph top speed)
by xx xx <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: my battery fire
by "Matt Kenigson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: EVLN(Lotus' 644hp E-SUV, 350mi range, 155mph top speed)
by Bill Dube <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Doug,
Illinois.
I'm actually quite surprised they have a program.
The rebate is for up to $4,000.00.
Dana
-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "Doug McKee" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sorry Dana,
> Do you live in one of the states guessed?
> Doug
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Dana Havranek
> Sent: Monday, January 29, 2007 6:00 PM
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: RE: Rebates/Incentives/Credits, Was: Debating purchasing an EV
>
>
> HA!
>
> I'm not a she!
>
> I run into that a lot now days.
>
> Dana
>
>
> -------------- Original message ----------------------
> From: "Doug McKee" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > She probably lives in California or Minnesota.
> > In Texas we get squat.
> > Doug
> >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Just saw Jessie James of West Coast Choppers was fined $275,000 by
the CARB for violating emission regulations on his customer's
motorcycles. It was like 50 custom bikes he made that were in
violation. Ouch.
Think of the electric motorcycles you could build for $275,000.
Chip
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Matt,
Where are you buying your distilled water? I
typically buy it in one gallon jugs at the local
grocery store. If I can get the house brand on sale
it's about .89/gallon. If I have to spring for the
name brand stuff, Sparklets or some such, it's about
$1.29 a gallon. Who knows, we pay more for gas out
here in Southern California, so maybe they give us a
break on the water. I go through about 2 gallons month
on my 24 battery truck.
TiM
____________________________________________________________________________________
Get your own web address.
Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business.
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/domains/?p=BESTDEAL
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yes. The if I come to your house with cash option. Lawrence
Rhodes.........
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 9:00 AM
Subject: Re: Where did the RAV4 go?
> Lawrence,
> I don't think there is "always" a Buy It Now option. The seller can
> choose to include it or not. Or did you mean something else?
>
> Bill Dennis
>
> Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
> > When purchasing something on ebay there is always the option of a buy it
now
> > happening. If the seller has someone willing to meet their asking price
why
> > continue the auction? It only violates the ebay rules which have no
legal
> > weight. Lawrence Rhodes......
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Christopher Zach" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> > Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 3:47 PM
> > Subject: Where did the RAV4 go?
> >
> >
> >
> >> Out of curiosity, does anyone know why the RAV4 listing was canceled? I
> >> was a bidder on it, and I thought it was being listed by a reputable
> >>
> > group.
> >
> >> Odd
> >> Chris
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thats only $5500 per bike. Probably not EVen half his profit. Maybe if he
promised to build the next 50 as ZEV they would waive his fine?? :-O ... or
maybe not.
----- Original Message -----
From: Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 1:36 pm
Subject: Jessie James should build electric motorcycles
To: EV Discussion List <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> Just saw Jessie James of West Coast Choppers was fined $275,000 by
>
> the CARB for violating emission regulations on his customer's
> motorcycles. It was like 50 custom bikes he made that were in
> violation. Ouch.
>
> Think of the electric motorcycles you could build for $275,000.
>
> Chip
>
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
FYI,
A Sears water purifier which sells, on sale as low as $50 and $100 normally
can make
99% pure, demineralized water at a rate of 2-4 gallons a day for a few cents
of electricity
per gallon. It pays for itself in convenience good water for your EV and
yourself.
Doc Kennedy
On 1/31/07, TiM M <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Matt,
Where are you buying your distilled water? I
typically buy it in one gallon jugs at the local
grocery store. If I can get the house brand on sale
it's about .89/gallon. If I have to spring for the
name brand stuff, Sparklets or some such, it's about
$1.29 a gallon. Who knows, we pay more for gas out
here in Southern California, so maybe they give us a
break on the water. I go through about 2 gallons month
on my 24 battery truck.
TiM
____________________________________________________________________________________
Get your own web address.
Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business.
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/domains/?p=BESTDEAL
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Matt Kenigson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 12:27 PM
Subject: Re: my battery fire
> Roland,
>
> Perhaps I misunderstand your post, but should I be concerned about my
> setup? In my pack, battery #1 and battery #20, which go in and out from
> the
> pack, are right next to each other.
>
> Matt
>
If you using 6 volt batteries, then that is 120 volts or 150 charge voltage
between these batteries. If its 12 volt batteries, then its 240 volts or
300 charger volts!!
Also between 19 and 2, 18 and 3 and etc will have a high voltage between the
batteries.
In a battery circuit loop system like this, it is best to have a insulator
between these two rolls of batteries or try to have a gap between them.
Take a volt meter reading of any one of the batteries to the battery case to
see how much voltage tracking you have. Between battery #1 and #20 you may
find as you hold one test lead on one post and move the other along the top
of the battery case, you may find that voltage may increase from 0 to over
60 volts when you get to the edge of the battery.
This means there is voltage conducting from battery 1 to battery 20 or
between any two pair of batteries.
If I notice this tracking between my two batteries that have a 72 volt
difference, then its time to clean them.
Roland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I made my own load meter, using stainless welding wire, that comes in 36
inch sticks. This welding wire ranges from .022 to .25 inch diameter. I
was using .1875 diameter 1000 degree F rated temperature stainless steel
rods that was 36 inches long. I loop it back and forth so it fit on to set
screw terminals, that is set on a porcelain base. This wire size was good
for a 300 amp load.
I change the wire size to about 0.125 diameter which was also a high
temperature rated SS welding rod for a 75 amp load which I use on a 6 volt
260 AH battery. There is different grades of these wire, with different
resistance per foot.
So for a starting cold wire resistance, you need for a 6 volt battery 6v/75A
= 0.08 ohms for you resistance. I went to a welding supply company with my
multi meter which I measure different types of SS wire, to find the correct
one that will work.
Install the SS wire in the load tester, which I made out of a heavy gage
aluminum box, that has a volt meter, amp meter, shunt, a continuous duty 100
amp starter solenoid and a momentary switch. Drill a series of 1/2 inch
holes in this box, to provide air ventilation.
Install the full length of wire, first which I could trim down later if the
ampere was too load. Test this unit on a 6 volt battery, that amp meter
read exactly 75 amps.
How about that.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 4:01 PM
Subject: Re: Discharged Batteries
>
> > Any suggestions on what kind of commonly available 75a load I could hook
> > up to a 6v battery to test it?
>
> I'm kind of partial to hooking two 6V batteries in series and then using a
> common 1000W inverter. Plug a small heater into the inverter and voila',
> large current draw on the 12V side.
>
>
> > I had read in the archive that someone had made a load tester with a
> > length of coat hanger wire immersed in a bucket of water, connected to
> > the battery with jumper cables. Is there an easier DIY method that
> > could be calibrated to 75a?
>
> It doesn't get much easier than a coat hanger.
>
> --
> If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
> junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
> wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
> legalistic signature is void.
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> OK, what is it with ZAP and its business practices then ?
> I realize this is a public forum etc, but i did search the archives
> here and i didnt find anything that would explain these comments...
> Care to provide a link to some reading material for newer members ? Or
> just some key words to google on ?
>
> -kert
I still have ZAP stock - it converted after their restructuring (read:
bankruptcy and acquisition by a used car dealer), but when I bought it
in the '90's, Gary Starr (or was it Garry Star, or Garry Starr?) ran
the place. Only after my first stockholders meeting did I hear that he
had already driven 2 other EV-related business into the ground. He may
not be "the man in charge" now, but like Lithium House/Hybrid
Technologies and Chaz Haba, a past track record usually speaks for itself.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Matt Kenigson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 2:19 PM
Subject: Distilled water sources. Was: Re: Reviving flooded batteries
> Thanks. By the way, how are you guys getting your distilled water? With
> all the gassing my batteries have been doing, it's been getting pretty
> expensive buying distilled water from the store. It's more expensive than
> gasoline at times, which gets my wife worked up. It's hard to argue with
> your wife that it's not a valid comparison.
>
> Matt
>
Hello Matt,
I got my distilled water from Wal-Mart for $0.59 a gallon. If you take your
empty bottles in. They have a re-filling station that will only cost about
$0.25 a gallon.
Roland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ha. He'll never do it.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chip Gribben" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EV Discussion List" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 5:27 PM
Subject: Jessie James should build electric motorcycles
Just saw Jessie James of West Coast Choppers was fined $275,000 by
the CARB for violating emission regulations on his customer's
motorcycles. It was like 50 custom bikes he made that were in
violation. Ouch.
Think of the electric motorcycles you could build for $275,000.
Chip
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If anyone believes :
1) 2008
2) 155 mph
3) 5 persons/350 miles
4) 10 min charge
6) ZAP
then I have a bridge you might be interested in buying.
JLC
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kaido Kert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 2:28 PM
Subject: Re: EVLN(Lotus' 644hp E-SUV, 350mi range, 155mph top speed)
> There is more detailed report on CNET:
> http://news.com.com/2100-11389_3-6154854.html
> The important bits:
> to be on sale by the end of 2008
> 350 miles range
> 155mph
> 10-min recharge capability
> cost target: $60 000
> CNET reporter dropped in a link to Altair ..
>
> If this was for real, i'd buy it. Thats basically the specs for a
> dream car PLUS its a Lotus
> The pricetag would be justified.
>
> /kert
>
> On 1/31/07, Roderick Wilde <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Here is a six letter word for you: Touché!
> >
> > Roderick Wilde
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> > Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 10:37 AM
> > Subject: Re: EVLN(Lotus' 644hp E-SUV, 350mi range, 155mph top speed)
> >
> >
> > > On 30 Jan 2007 at 20:23, bruce parmenter wrote:
> > >
> > >> ... all-electric SUV ... codeveloped by Lotus and ZAP ...
> > >
> > > Let me guess. This news release came from Zap, not Lotus.
> > >
> > > [Uncovers eyes.] Was I right? Did I win? ;-)
> > >
> > > Perhaps I'm just a cynic. But it seems to me that Zap and the late,
> > > unlamented BAT have more in common than a 3-letter name.
> > >
> > > David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> > > EV List Administrator
> > >
> > > = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> > > Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation,
> > > or switch to digest mode? See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/
> > > = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> > > Note: mail sent to "evpost" or "etpost" addresses will not reach me.
> > > To send a private message, please obtain my email address from
> > > the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
> > > = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > > Version: 7.1.410 / Virus Database: 268.17.17/661 - Release Date:
1/30/2007
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > No virus found in this outgoing message.
> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > Version: 7.1.410 / Virus Database: 268.17.17/661 - Release Date:
1/30/2007
> >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I will continue to test this battery but please remember that I checked
several other batteries in the pack the same way and none of them showed any
voltages. I tested the other batteries in the same manner as the battery in
question but this battery was the only one that showed any voltages.
I really do appreciate all of the help with this. I want to find out what
the problem is. I have always believed that there is always a reason for
everything in electronics. Sometimes it is harder to find the root of the
problem but there is always a reason.
Also the concrete pavement was dry. I did these tests last Sunday and the
temperature was in the mid to upper 50's. It was very sunny and warm with
little or no wind.
I have started washing the batteries with some soda and water to try to
clean them to see if this helps so I will have to wait for everything to dry
before I can start checking again. Also they are calling for bad weather
tomorrow and Friday. So it will be a few days before everything dries up
enough to test.
Thanks, Fred
-----Original Message-----
From: Peter VanDerWal [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 6:08 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: RE: Weird Battery Problem
Concrete almost always has some water in it, it's usually a fairly good
conductor.
Dirt, etc. on the tires, especially if it's damp, can conduct electricity
(just not a lot).
Nothing to do with ground, but there is also the possibility that the
meter was measuring induced voltage from any number of things. Try
hooking one lead to the ground and the other to the vehicle frame and see
what you measure.
THe vehicle might be functioning as an antenna and collecting RF energy,
espcially once you provide a path to ground (could have been through
leakage paths on the battery in your earlier test)
> The battery was on the ground but the truck was on a concrete pad along
> with
> the 4 rubber tires that is on the truck so I do not see how there could
> have
> been a connection.
>
> Fred
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Peter VanDerWal [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 1:08 PM
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: RE: Weird Battery Problem
>
> And the ground.
>
>> No, I made sure that I was not touching anything with my human flesh. I
>> rechecked this measurement several times with the same results. I am a
>> newby in the EV world but I have been around computer and electronics
>> for
>> about 35 years so I am not new to using a multi-meter. During that
>> measurement the battery and the chassis had no physical connection other
>> than the multi-meter and of course the air.
>>
>> Thanks, Fred
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Tim Humphrey [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 11:46 AM
>> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
>> Subject: RE: Weird Battery Problem
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Behalf Of Lee Hart
>>>
>>> From: Fred Hartsell
>>>>I am using 20 Interstate u-2400 batteries... Last positive connection
>>>> of
>>> the
>>>>pack to chassis ground was 115.7 vdc.
>>>
>>> You have a common problem; one that occurs sooner or later for anyone
>>> with
>>> flooded batteries. The outside of the battery has a coating of acid
>>> mist,
>>> which is making it slightly conductive -- enough so you can get a
>>> "tingle"
>>> from it, and enough to read on your high-impedance meter.
>>>
>>> Wash the batteries with water and a little baking soda to neutralize
>>> the
>>> acid, and it will go away... for a while. As the batteries age, they
>>> gas
>>> more, and the problem gets more frequent.
>>>
>>> It's also possible, though less likely, that you have a cracked battery
>>> case
>>> or a leak around a battery post. If so, the battery case will keep
>>> getting
>>> wet again even if you don't charge it to cause any gassing.
>>
>> That's what I was thinking... until I came to the part where he said
>>
>> "With the battery sitting on the ground beside of the truck, I again
>> measure
>> the chassis ground and the battery positive lug. I was still reading
>> about
>> 3.1 vdc."
>>
>> 'splain that!
>>
>> Fred you don't touch the ends of the test leads with your fingers while
>> taking measurements do you? Well, don't, or you may be measuring you
>> instead.
>> --
>> Stay Charged!
>> Hump
>> I-5, Blossvale NY
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
> junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
> wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
> legalistic signature is void.
>
>
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The emmission standards had tightened of the last 2
years restricting many once allowed engine styles to
be reduced to just a few. Of the ones available, they
are not of the aircooled variety, but require
radiators. In addition, restrictions have tightened
to only allow to own one custom motorcycle IN YOUR
LIFE TIME. This doesnt include the increased
restrictions against custom painters. Many in the
motorcycle community feel that this is a direct attack
on their lifestyle, personal freedom to own property,
and against small business owners in their specialty
field.
--- Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Just saw Jessie James of West Coast Choppers was
> fined $275,000 by
> the CARB for violating emission regulations on his
> customer's
> motorcycles. It was like 50 custom bikes he made
> that were in
> violation. Ouch.
>
> Think of the electric motorcycles you could build
> for $275,000.
>
> Chip
>
>
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
Finding fabulous fares is fun.
Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel
bargains.
http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
Yes. The if I come to your house with cash option. Lawrence
Which is why some auctions say "this can be terminated due to local
sale". If you don't have that, you should not end the auction early.
Otherwise it's a "de facto" reserve bid and not fair to people bidding.
Was that what happened? If so they took advantage of E-Bay.
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I might go that route. With distilled water as much as $2.50 per gallon in
our grocery stores over here, I've been using (please don't flame me) water
from our fridge's built-in water purifier. I figured it probably doesn't
get all the minerals out, but it probably comes pretty close. Is this a
really bad idea?
I'll look at the Sears water purifier (what makes it different from my
fridge's built-in?) and see if I can't find anything online for water
distillation.
Matt
On 1/31/07, Doc Kennedy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
FYI,
A Sears water purifier which sells, on sale as low as $50 and $100
normally
can make
99% pure, demineralized water at a rate of 2-4 gallons a day for a few
cents
of electricity
per gallon. It pays for itself in convenience good water for your EV and
yourself.
Doc Kennedy
On 1/31/07, TiM M <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Matt,
> Where are you buying your distilled water? I
> typically buy it in one gallon jugs at the local
> grocery store. If I can get the house brand on sale
> it's about .89/gallon. If I have to spring for the
> name brand stuff, Sparklets or some such, it's about
> $1.29 a gallon. Who knows, we pay more for gas out
> here in Southern California, so maybe they give us a
> break on the water. I go through about 2 gallons month
> on my 24 battery truck.
>
> TiM
>
>
>
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
> Get your own web address.
> Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business.
> http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/domains/?p=BESTDEAL
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I do know you could do this right now if you had
a big enough wallet (and you hired the right
folks to build it.) The required battery
technology and the motor technology is pretty much off-the-shelf.
Whether this particular partnership can
do it is anyone's guess, however.
Bill D.
At 05:01 PM 1/31/2007, you wrote:
If anyone believes :
1) 2008
2) 155 mph
3) 5 persons/350 miles
4) 10 min charge
6) ZAP
then I have a bridge you might be interested in buying.
JLC
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kaido Kert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 2:28 PM
Subject: Re: EVLN(Lotus' 644hp E-SUV, 350mi range, 155mph top speed)
> There is more detailed report on CNET:
> http://news.com.com/2100-11389_3-6154854.html
> The important bits:
> to be on sale by the end of 2008
> 350 miles range
> 155mph
> 10-min recharge capability
> cost target: $60 000
> CNET reporter dropped in a link to Altair ..
>
> If this was for real, i'd buy it. Thats basically the specs for a
> dream car PLUS its a Lotus
> The pricetag would be justified.
>
> /kert
>
> On 1/31/07, Roderick Wilde <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Here is a six letter word for you: Touché!
> >
> > Roderick Wilde
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> > Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 10:37 AM
> > Subject: Re: EVLN(Lotus' 644hp E-SUV, 350mi range, 155mph top speed)
> >
> >
> > > On 30 Jan 2007 at 20:23, bruce parmenter wrote:
> > >
> > >> ... all-electric SUV ... codeveloped by Lotus and ZAP ...
> > >
> > > Let me guess. This news release came from Zap, not Lotus.
> > >
> > > [Uncovers eyes.] Was I right? Did I win? ;-)
> > >
> > > Perhaps I'm just a cynic. But it seems to me that Zap and the late,
> > > unlamented BAT have more in common than a 3-letter name.
> > >
> > > David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> > > EV List Administrator
> > >
> > > = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> > > Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation,
> > > or switch to digest mode? See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/
> > > = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> > > Note: mail sent to "evpost" or "etpost" addresses will not reach me.
> > > To send a private message, please obtain my email address from
> > > the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
> > > = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > > Version: 7.1.410 / Virus Database: 268.17.17/661 - Release Date:
1/30/2007
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > No virus found in this outgoing message.
> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > Version: 7.1.410 / Virus Database: 268.17.17/661 - Release Date:
1/30/2007
> >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Great advice, thank you!
I've actually been apprehensive about cleaning my batteries because I don't
know how to do it safely. They're actually in pretty bad shape (lots of
sticky residue on tops) but I have been cleaning the posts every so often
with baking soda and water. Some posts get messy pretty fast, though.
So, is it safe to just use a wet rag to wash off the tops of the batteries?
Maybe using a solution of baking soda in the water? How careful do I have
to be around the posts? I'm guessing I should wear rubber gloves (and
rubber boots) and do it outside, but it's pretty cold these days. Do I need
to get some heavy-duty rubber gloves to do this? Is there some type of
fabric/sponge/material that's best for this type of maintenance?
Matt
On 1/31/07, Roland Wiench <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
----- Original Message -----
From: "Matt Kenigson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 12:27 PM
Subject: Re: my battery fire
> Roland,
>
> Perhaps I misunderstand your post, but should I be concerned about my
> setup? In my pack, battery #1 and battery #20, which go in and out from
> the
> pack, are right next to each other.
>
> Matt
>
If you using 6 volt batteries, then that is 120 volts or 150 charge
voltage
between these batteries. If its 12 volt batteries, then its 240 volts or
300 charger volts!!
Also between 19 and 2, 18 and 3 and etc will have a high voltage between
the
batteries.
In a battery circuit loop system like this, it is best to have a insulator
between these two rolls of batteries or try to have a gap between them.
Take a volt meter reading of any one of the batteries to the battery case
to
see how much voltage tracking you have. Between battery #1 and #20 you
may
find as you hold one test lead on one post and move the other along the
top
of the battery case, you may find that voltage may increase from 0 to over
60 volts when you get to the edge of the battery.
This means there is voltage conducting from battery 1 to battery 20 or
between any two pair of batteries.
If I notice this tracking between my two batteries that have a 72 volt
difference, then its time to clean them.
Roland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I've been wondering what the general consensus is on
using 8D type batteries over 6 volts. Is an 8D
basically two 6 volts in one package? To my novice
mind the 8D has the advantage of needing half as many
connections, therefore half the potential interface
problems and half the cabling. Also I see the larger
battery as more robust, and less affected by
temperature change. My thinking is the larger mass
will change temperature more slowly.
On a related topic, does anyone have experience with
these Lifeline batteries?
http://www.lifelinebatteries.com/marinebatteries.php
This person seems to like them for his marine usage.
http://www.vonwentzel.net/Battery/01.Type/index.html
John
____________________________________________________________________________________
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--- Begin Message ---
"Purified" water is very questionable, it is not the same as distilled.
99% pure is not impressive at all. Some tap water is near that. That's
still 1% mineral content! Also, these results are not well specified
and not really guaranteed over the life of the product in the field.
Something's wrong if your distilled water is $2.50/gal. Should be like
$0.59. It doesn't come in a lot of pricey brand names, distilled is not
marketable like "spring water".
Note that "bottled water" (Sparkletts) and "spring water" are not
distilled and should not be put in a battery.
Danny
Matt Kenigson wrote:
I might go that route. With distilled water as much as $2.50 per
gallon in
our grocery stores over here, I've been using (please don't flame me)
water
from our fridge's built-in water purifier. I figured it probably doesn't
get all the minerals out, but it probably comes pretty close. Is this a
really bad idea?
I'll look at the Sears water purifier (what makes it different from my
fridge's built-in?) and see if I can't find anything online for water
distillation.
Matt
On 1/31/07, Doc Kennedy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
FYI,
A Sears water purifier which sells, on sale as low as $50 and $100
normally
can make
99% pure, demineralized water at a rate of 2-4 gallons a day for a few
cents
of electricity
per gallon. It pays for itself in convenience good water for your EV and
yourself.
Doc Kennedy
On 1/31/07, TiM M <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Matt,
> Where are you buying your distilled water? I
> typically buy it in one gallon jugs at the local
> grocery store. If I can get the house brand on sale
> it's about .89/gallon. If I have to spring for the
> name brand stuff, Sparklets or some such, it's about
> $1.29 a gallon. Who knows, we pay more for gas out
> here in Southern California, so maybe they give us a
> break on the water. I go through about 2 gallons month
> on my 24 battery truck.
>
> TiM
>
>
>
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
> Get your own web address.
> Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business.
> http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/domains/?p=BESTDEAL
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
--- Bill Dube <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I do know you could do this right now if you had
> a big enough wallet (and you hired the right
> folks to build it.) The required battery
> technology and the motor technology is pretty much
> off-the-shelf.
350 mile range and 10 min. recharge for $60K, off the
shelf? Who's shelf? ;^) The only battery I can think
of is Altairnano's battery, and that would take over
2.5 times the size of the pack in the Phoenix.
Not to mention that Phoenix supposedly has them locked
up for the next 3 years.
John
Whether this particular partnership can
> do it is anyone's guess, however.
>
> Bill D.
>
> At 05:01 PM 1/31/2007, you wrote:
> >If anyone believes :
> >1) 2008
> >2) 155 mph
> >3) 5 persons/350 miles
> >4) 10 min charge
> >6) ZAP
> >then I have a bridge you might be interested in
> buying.
> >JLC
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Kaido Kert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> >Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 2:28 PM
> >Subject: Re: EVLN(Lotus' 644hp E-SUV, 350mi range,
> 155mph top speed)
> >
> >
> > > There is more detailed report on CNET:
> > > http://news.com.com/2100-11389_3-6154854.html
> > > The important bits:
> > > to be on sale by the end of 2008
> > > 350 miles range
> > > 155mph
> > > 10-min recharge capability
> > > cost target: $60 000
> > > CNET reporter dropped in a link to Altair ..
> > >
> > > If this was for real, i'd buy it. Thats
> basically the specs for a
> > > dream car PLUS its a Lotus
> > > The pricetag would be justified.
> > >
> > > /kert
> > >
> > > On 1/31/07, Roderick Wilde
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > Here is a six letter word for you: Touché!
> > > >
> > > > Roderick Wilde
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 10:37 AM
> > > > Subject: Re: EVLN(Lotus' 644hp E-SUV, 350mi
> range, 155mph top speed)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > On 30 Jan 2007 at 20:23, bruce parmenter
> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >> ... all-electric SUV ... codeveloped by
> Lotus and ZAP ...
> > > > >
> > > > > Let me guess. This news release came from
> Zap, not Lotus.
> > > > >
> > > > > [Uncovers eyes.] Was I right? Did I win?
> ;-)
> > > > >
> > > > > Perhaps I'm just a cynic. But it seems to
> me that Zap and the late,
> > > > > unlamented BAT have more in common than a
> 3-letter name.
> > > > >
> > > > > David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> > > > > EV List Administrator
> > > > >
> > > > > = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> = = = = = = = = = = =
> > > > > Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail
> while you're on vacation,
> > > > > or switch to digest mode? See how:
> http://www.evdl.org/help/
> > > > > = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> = = = = = = = = = = =
> > > > > Note: mail sent to "evpost" or "etpost"
> addresses will not reach me.
> > > > > To send a private message, please obtain my
> email address from
> > > > > the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
> > > > > = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> = = = = = = = = = = =
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > > > > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > > > > Version: 7.1.410 / Virus Database:
> 268.17.17/661 - Release Date:
> >1/30/2007
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > No virus found in this outgoing message.
> > > > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > > > Version: 7.1.410 / Virus Database:
> 268.17.17/661 - Release Date:
> >1/30/2007
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
Sucker-punch spam with award-winning protection.
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If you using 6 volt batteries, then that is 120 volts or 150 charge
voltage
between these batteries. If its 12 volt batteries, then its 240 volts or
300 charger volts!!
Also between 19 and 2, 18 and 3 and etc will have a high voltage between
the
batteries.
In a battery circuit loop system like this, it is best to have a insulator
between these two rolls of batteries or try to have a gap between them.
I have 6 volt batteries and they have a piece of 1/4" plywood between them.
They are laid out like this: (best viewed in courier or some other
mono-spaced font)
-----------------------
|| 5 | 4 | 3 | 2 | 1-||
---------------------
|| 6 |17 |18 |19 |20+||
-----------------------
||7 |16|15|14|13||
|| | | x| | ||
------------------
||8 |9 |10|11|12||
|| | | | | ||
------------------
Where all of the ---- and || segments are plywood. Battery #15 is my melted
post battery, thus the x. So I guess that means I have 120V between
batteries 1&20, 2&19, 3&18, and 4&17. I guess the worst might be battery #s
6&17 and 7&16, since they should have 11x6=66v and 9x6=54v between them,
respectively, without any separator. Am I understanding this correctly? Or
is it 1 inclusive, so it would be 72v and 60v between them. Either way,
should I accelerate my plans to redo the battery box?
I'll do the testing you mentioned to see how bad surface conductance is and
clean them as soon as I figure out how to do it safely -- see other thread.
Matt
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
For $60k you are not going to get the stated specs.
As I said, "with a big enough wallet" you will get the specs.
You can get 350 miles range, 10 minute
recharge, 155 MPH, 5 people, but you will have to pay for it.
It would take about a 500 kW charger to
fill a 350 mile battery pack in ten minutes. The
charger alone would eat up the $60k and leave
nothing left for the rest of the car. :-) Perhaps
the installation of the electrical service to
feed such a charger would cost $60k (unless you
lived right next to a substation.)
Bill Dube'
At 05:58 PM 1/31/2007, you wrote:
--- Bill Dube <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I do know you could do this right now if you had
> a big enough wallet (and you hired the right
> folks to build it.) The required battery
> technology and the motor technology is pretty much
> off-the-shelf.
350 mile range and 10 min. recharge for $60K, off the
shelf? Who's shelf? ;^) The only battery I can think
of is Altairnano's battery, and that would take over
2.5 times the size of the pack in the Phoenix.
Not to mention that Phoenix supposedly has them locked
up for the next 3 years.
John
Whether this particular partnership can
> do it is anyone's guess, however.
>
> Bill D.
>
> At 05:01 PM 1/31/2007, you wrote:
> >If anyone believes :
> >1) 2008
> >2) 155 mph
> >3) 5 persons/350 miles
> >4) 10 min charge
> >6) ZAP
> >then I have a bridge you might be interested in
> buying.
> >JLC
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Kaido Kert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> >Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 2:28 PM
> >Subject: Re: EVLN(Lotus' 644hp E-SUV, 350mi range,
> 155mph top speed)
> >
> >
> > > There is more detailed report on CNET:
> > > http://news.com.com/2100-11389_3-6154854.html
> > > The important bits:
> > > to be on sale by the end of 2008
> > > 350 miles range
> > > 155mph
> > > 10-min recharge capability
> > > cost target: $60 000
> > > CNET reporter dropped in a link to Altair ..
> > >
> > > If this was for real, i'd buy it. Thats
> basically the specs for a
> > > dream car PLUS its a Lotus
> > > The pricetag would be justified.
> > >
> > > /kert
> > >
> > > On 1/31/07, Roderick Wilde
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > Here is a six letter word for you: Touché!
> > > >
> > > > Roderick Wilde
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 10:37 AM
> > > > Subject: Re: EVLN(Lotus' 644hp E-SUV, 350mi
> range, 155mph top speed)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > On 30 Jan 2007 at 20:23, bruce parmenter
> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >> ... all-electric SUV ... codeveloped by
> Lotus and ZAP ...
> > > > >
> > > > > Let me guess. This news release came from
> Zap, not Lotus.
> > > > >
> > > > > [Uncovers eyes.] Was I right? Did I win?
> ;-)
> > > > >
> > > > > Perhaps I'm just a cynic. But it seems to
> me that Zap and the late,
> > > > > unlamented BAT have more in common than a
> 3-letter name.
> > > > >
> > > > > David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> > > > > EV List Administrator
> > > > >
> > > > > = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> = = = = = = = = = = =
> > > > > Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail
> while you're on vacation,
> > > > > or switch to digest mode? See how:
> http://www.evdl.org/help/
> > > > > = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> = = = = = = = = = = =
> > > > > Note: mail sent to "evpost" or "etpost"
> addresses will not reach me.
> > > > > To send a private message, please obtain my
> email address from
> > > > > the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
> > > > > = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> = = = = = = = = = = =
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > > > > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > > > > Version: 7.1.410 / Virus Database:
> 268.17.17/661 - Release Date:
> >1/30/2007
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > No virus found in this outgoing message.
> > > > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > > > Version: 7.1.410 / Virus Database:
> 268.17.17/661 - Release Date:
> >1/30/2007
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
>
>
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--- End Message ---
