EV Digest 6901
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: What batteries to try next?
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: How the Prius Works
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) RE: EV achilles' heel
by "Phil Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: full size truck conversion
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) unsubscribe
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
6) Re: full size truck conversion
by "Zeke Yewdall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Turbine Range Extender
by Dan Frederiksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: EV achilles' heel
by Dan Frederiksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: EV achilles' heel - Trailer thoughts
by Dan Frederiksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Chorusmotors.com
by "Loni" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: What batteries to try next?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: How the Prius Works
by "Michael Perry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: EV achilles' heel
by Tehben Dean <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: long range EV MC
by "Loni" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: What batteries to try next?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: EV achilles' heel
by Tehben Dean <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: DMV in PA
by "Michael Perry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
I just replaced my 24 exide orbitals. They were weak but still under
warantee. I did findout that they are really easy to reverse but they
recover from that ok.
They didn't last as long as I thought they should, but it was my first
pack. :-) so about 8000 miles and 1.5 years
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
OK so some day when priui are avail with blown ICE motors and no-one can
afford to fix them we use it as the perfect glider.
Replace the ICE with a warp 9 to be used for passing, hill climbing, and
"rice burner" mode. (Let the Ecm controll the zilla?)
Use MG1 and MG2 togather for variable ratio round town use.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: RE: EV achilles' heel
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 16:59:25 -0400
1) does anyone actually have a generator on their vehicle, and know how
loud it is?
or is it all conjecture? "it must be noisy, and I don't like the idea, so
you must be crazy since I'm an environmentalist (and I'm right)..." is
hardly a valid argument.
2) is there any reason you can't voluntarily buy and install a catalytic
converter/quiet exhaust?
3) any reason you couldn't put a chain hoist in your garage (if you have
one) and put it on the back of your truck? (for those of you who have
trucks) - or trailer, if you have a different vehicle?
The entire exhaust on my old geo was $200, including a new catalytic (Yes,
I'm FAR-right-wing, and Yes, I care about the environment - hence the
totally voluntary purchase of a catalytic converter on a vehicle that the
state didn't say I had to replace. I also care about what *terrorists* are
doing with the gas-money I give them). Just because you're an
environmentalist, doesn't mean you have all the answers.
We've all spent way more than that on our EVs, theres no reason you
couldn't tack on a catalytic, if you're concerned about the environment
and noise.
Modern ICE engines ( on road-going vehicles) achieve their low emissions by
having a well-designed, computer-controlled engine to begin with, and with
the help of a catalytic converter, and a host of sensors and controls that
work together.
"Tacking" a catalytic convert onto an engine not designed for it will
accomplish very little, and the converter will likely be destroyed very
quickly.
Phil Marino
_________________________________________________________________
Get a preview of Live Earth, the hottest event this summer - only on MSN
http://liveearth.msn.com?source=msntaglineliveearthhm
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ok, try reading the subject AND the body befor replying.
We aren't talking about 'most' EVs, we are talking about a 'Large Truck'
(subject line) that is towing a trailer (mentioned several times in the
body)
30 kw is barely adequate in a small, lightweight, EV. Actually most
people would find 30kw less than acceptable.
> I think with a battery pack and a reasonable EV, 190kw is excessive.
> Maybe
> up hill and accel, yes, but that's what the huge battery buffer is for.
>
> 30kw would probably do a great job for most EV's.
I have a small, lightweight EV with a 30kw drive system. It's a 1988
toyota pickup thar weighs 3200 lbs. With only 30kw available it takes 80
seconds to get to 60 mph (and no, I did NOT forget the decimal point)
A large truck that weighs 3x as much would probsbly NEVER reach 60 mph on
30 kw, and it couldn't tow a trailer up a driveway.
>
> -Phil
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2007 5:05 PM
> Subject: Re: full size truck conversion
>
>
>> Assuming you don't have huge ammounts of money sitting around...commonly
>> available motors and generators are going to be 80%-90% efficient.
>> Towing a trailer requires lots of power, towing up hill requies HUGE
>> ammounts of power.
>>
>> For simplicities sake, let's assume we only need 200 hp (at the wheels)
>> to
>> tow uphill. Let's also assume we are using the more affordable 80% eff
>> motors/generators (this way we can keep the project under $100,000).
>>
>> So 200 hp at the wheels requires about 190KW input power to the
>> motor/controller. To generate 190kw requires about 320 hp mechanical
>> input to the generator.
>>
>> So instead of needing a 200 hp motor we need a 320 hp motor, plus huge
>> generator and a huge electric motor.
>>
>> Normal hybrids would use a smaller motor/generator and get the extra
>> power
>> from batteries. This would work if you never had to climb a hill that
>> took longer than about 5 minutes to get to the top, and didn't need to
>> climb another hill for at least and hour or two. That's a pretty rare
>> circumstance if you are towing any distance.
>>
>> The Army had a hybrid Hummer developer back in the 90s. It made a lot
>> of
>> improvements over the normal hummer, better mileage, power, etc.
>> It also used $150,000 worth of high efficiency motors/generators, and it
>> weighed so much that it only had enough cargo capacity left for a couple
>> soldiers and their personal gear. It had virtually no towing capacity.
>>
>>> Stuart, Peter and the group,
>>>
>>> Given the weight problem of batteries as the sole source of power for a
>>> pickup truck, what about a diesel-electric generator + batteries as a
>>> power source? (Basically a diesel hybrid) I know that Toyota/Hino
>>> have
>>> been operating light trucks in Japan with this power train starting in
>>> 2001. All I get is a stone wall when I ask Toyota/Hino about them.
>>>
>>> My real question is:
>>>
>>> Would a diesel-electric hybrid truck along the lines of a 1/2 or 3/4
>>> ton
>>> pickup be feasible as a tow vehicle for a travel trailer?
>>>
>>>
>>> J.J. Hayden
>>> Long time lurker
>>>
>>> J.J. Hayden
>>> http://home.earthlink.net/~jjhayden
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
>> junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever
>> I
>> wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
>> legalistic signature is void.
>>
>>
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
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I agree. Highway towing is a high horsepower activity. Continuous
horsepower, not peak horsepower. That's why diesels are so good at
it, because they have better fuel consumption numbers compared to
gasoline when run at high sustained output.
However, for slow towing, the torque of an electric is great. A
friend has a gorilla (the electric atv, for those who might not know
what it is). It's only a 36 volt system with six T-145 batteries.
But, it can pull his tandem axle car trailer around the yard for
positioning and such.
On 6/14/07, Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Ok, try reading the subject AND the body befor replying.
We aren't talking about 'most' EVs, we are talking about a 'Large Truck'
(subject line) that is towing a trailer (mentioned several times in the
body)
30 kw is barely adequate in a small, lightweight, EV. Actually most
people would find 30kw less than acceptable.
> I think with a battery pack and a reasonable EV, 190kw is excessive.
> Maybe
> up hill and accel, yes, but that's what the huge battery buffer is for.
>
> 30kw would probably do a great job for most EV's.
I have a small, lightweight EV with a 30kw drive system. It's a 1988
toyota pickup thar weighs 3200 lbs. With only 30kw available it takes 80
seconds to get to 60 mph (and no, I did NOT forget the decimal point)
A large truck that weighs 3x as much would probsbly NEVER reach 60 mph on
30 kw, and it couldn't tow a trailer up a driveway.
>
> -Phil
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2007 5:05 PM
> Subject: Re: full size truck conversion
>
>
>> Assuming you don't have huge ammounts of money sitting around...commonly
>> available motors and generators are going to be 80%-90% efficient.
>> Towing a trailer requires lots of power, towing up hill requies HUGE
>> ammounts of power.
>>
>> For simplicities sake, let's assume we only need 200 hp (at the wheels)
>> to
>> tow uphill. Let's also assume we are using the more affordable 80% eff
>> motors/generators (this way we can keep the project under $100,000).
>>
>> So 200 hp at the wheels requires about 190KW input power to the
>> motor/controller. To generate 190kw requires about 320 hp mechanical
>> input to the generator.
>>
>> So instead of needing a 200 hp motor we need a 320 hp motor, plus huge
>> generator and a huge electric motor.
>>
>> Normal hybrids would use a smaller motor/generator and get the extra
>> power
>> from batteries. This would work if you never had to climb a hill that
>> took longer than about 5 minutes to get to the top, and didn't need to
>> climb another hill for at least and hour or two. That's a pretty rare
>> circumstance if you are towing any distance.
>>
>> The Army had a hybrid Hummer developer back in the 90s. It made a lot
>> of
>> improvements over the normal hummer, better mileage, power, etc.
>> It also used $150,000 worth of high efficiency motors/generators, and it
>> weighed so much that it only had enough cargo capacity left for a couple
>> soldiers and their personal gear. It had virtually no towing capacity.
>>
>>> Stuart, Peter and the group,
>>>
>>> Given the weight problem of batteries as the sole source of power for a
>>> pickup truck, what about a diesel-electric generator + batteries as a
>>> power source? (Basically a diesel hybrid) I know that Toyota/Hino
>>> have
>>> been operating light trucks in Japan with this power train starting in
>>> 2001. All I get is a stone wall when I ask Toyota/Hino about them.
>>>
>>> My real question is:
>>>
>>> Would a diesel-electric hybrid truck along the lines of a 1/2 or 3/4
>>> ton
>>> pickup be feasible as a tow vehicle for a travel trailer?
>>>
>>>
>>> J.J. Hayden
>>> Long time lurker
>>>
>>> J.J. Hayden
>>> http://home.earthlink.net/~jjhayden
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
>> junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever
>> I
>> wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
>> legalistic signature is void.
>>
>>
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
"The alternator/starter itself is a 3-phase, and is about the size of 2
beer cans end to end. Surprisingly small. Cooled by the intake air.
It spins VERY FAST (close to 100k rpm)."
30kW in a 2 beer can sized generator. that's what I'm talking about.
and suprise surprise it's about high rpm/phase velocity no doubt with
high voltage as a result
Dan
(-Phil-) wrote:
The price new is like $30k. This one had only 18 hours (was used for
backup) and was in great shape. The actual turbine and generator
aren't much larger than a 5 gallon bucket. The Air cleaner and sound
baffle are another 5 gallon bucket on front. The weight is pretty
trivial.
The alternator/starter itself is a 3-phase, and is about the size of 2
beer cans end to end. Surprisingly small. Cooled by the intake air.
It spins VERY FAST (close to 100k rpm).
The inverter and control electronics are about the size of a suitcase.
There are some other components, but other than the AGM battery pack
(240 volts of Hawkers) they don't take up much space.
The on-board inverter is programmable and will do grid intertie, or
output any voltage or frequency you might want. From DC to like
600hz if I remember right. It will do three phase AC as well.
-Phil
----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Frederiksen"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2007 2:51 PM
Subject: Re: Turbine Range Extender
I would imagine the price might be less amazing but sure. do you have
a picture of the turbine itself? the size
power wise it should be quite fitting. what is the size of the
generator attached to it?
Dan
(-Phil-) wrote:
Not too long ago I had the pleasure to work on a Capstone C-30
Turbine generator. Amazing piece of technology. As soon as I got
my hands on it, I felt the urge to cram it in an EV.
It's extraordinarily clean and very small and light with only one
moving part, and even that one part is suspended with low friction
air bearings.
It would be the ideal range-extender. I hatched this plan in my
head to make a removable sled that could be loaded in for long
trips. I also toyed with the idea of taking a large chunk of the
pack out when this is done.
In the end, this would only make sense if I was limited to one
vehicle, although it sure would be neat!
-Phil
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
nice product. ideally it has to be onboard but I'd take it
(-Phil-) wrote:
Here is the Genset trailer at it's finest:
http://www.evnut.com/rav_longranger.htm
It's a 500c Kawasaki M/C engine with Fuel Injection, A Cat, and other
misc emission controls such as Evaporative control.
It even steers automatically when you reverse to keep it from
jackknifing!
-Phil
----- Original Message ----- From: "Roger Stockton"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2007 4:11 PM
Subject: RE: EV achilles' heel
ed.cooley wrote:
1) does anyone actually have a generator on their vehicle,
and know how loud it is?
or is it all conjecture? "it must be noisy, and I don't like
the idea, so you must be crazy since I'm an environmentalist
(and I'm right)..." is hardly a valid argument.
The remark regarding noise is based on statements posted to this list in
past years by people who have tried it.
I believe Rich Rudman had a genset cart based on a Metro engine (and
aircraft starter/generator head?) that was described as "shaking itself
apart in use".
I'm aware of only a few people on the list using genset-type range
extenders:
- Dave 'battery boy' Hawkins (IIRC), in Colorado (genset in back of
pickup, I think)
- Alain St-Yves (whose "vehicule vert" webiste you reference), in
Quebec, not Ontario. Also using a homemade genset in the bed of the
truck. 11HP Honda engine driving a 7.5HP induction generator. The
combo delivers a steady 4.5kW and with respect to noise, Alain suggests
one might throttle it back when crossing a town or city and crank it
back up on the way out of town.
- Doug Hartley, also in Quebec, who I believe uses (and sells?) range
extender gensets based on a BLDC generator head.
Renting is problematic, as I don't want to have to deal
with the paperwork, hassle of picking one up - (and how
do I get there? and do I want to leave my precious EV
there over the weekend?) every time I go visit family.
This is true. Public transit, taxi, or a lift from a friend are all
possible solutions, though all still have varying degrees of
inconvenience.
Actually, providing the genset with routine maintenance, hooking it up
to the EV, and perhaps dropping it into the bed of the truck before each
long trip and pulling it back out afterwards are all greater
inconvenience than simply hopping in a second car for the occasional
longer trips, so I suppose it is all a matter of how much, and what type
of, inconvenience you are willing to tolerate.
It will certainly vary depending on the laws, etc. where one lives, but
for me renting a vehicle for occasional long trips is by far the
cheapest route. If I keep a second car, then I either need to keep it
insured all year, in addition to the EV, at a cost of $1000 or so, or I
have the inconvenience of needing to purchase temporary insurance just
before each trip (and then paying a premium for that, as short term
insurance costs more per day than insuring for a year at a time).
Either way, I have the inconvenience of taking the vehicle through
emission testing and having it take up space in my driveway or garage
most of the time.
The advantage of renting is that (except perhaps with Rent-a-Wreck ;^)
one always has a new, low mileage car to drive (newer by a long shot
than any car I've ever owned! ;)
Around here, trailers need to be registered/insured, and while that cost
is probably minimal compared to insuring a car, it still means a range
extender trailer may be costing you money the entire year whether used
or not.
A trailer has the disadvantage for me that the most likely use I'd have
for it is to allow my EV to make it to my in-laws, but that involves a
ferry ride and there's a hefty fare premium with a trailer. I'd go for
the onboard approach, but since my EV is a [small] car my thought was to
put the genset into a roof-mounted luggage 'pod'. These thoughts
occurred before I had the EV on the road; now that its on the road, I've
pretty much dismissed the idea of a genset range extender.
If you are seriously considering using a range extender to allow driving
non-stop for hours, something to consider when building your EV is to
'over-size' the motor relative to what EVers normally use. For example,
at 144V an ADC 9" is rated for 28.5HP continuous, 30.4HP for 1hr and
48.8HP for 5min, etc. In the case of something like a pickup conversion
you might easily be operating the motor somewhere between the continuous
and 1hr ratings at highway speeds. For pure EVs, we typically run out
of juice in little enough time that we can run our motors [well] above
their continuous (or even 1hr ratings) without harm, but if you add a
range extender to allow driving for 2hrs+ at a time on the highway you
might get into trouble if the terrain is hilly or the speeds highish,
etc.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
sounds awfully cheap for a load of lithium. what capacity and price was
the lithium in it? and how long does it go?
jukka wrote:
about 20 000 eur with labor already included. BMW is not yet finished
but I believe it will not be the one with most range.
-Jukka
Dan Frederiksen kirjoitti:
how much did your longest ranging ev cost?
jukka wrote:
Right. I choose the car according the need. If I need 200 miles I
take the 200 mile car from the garage. That's as easy as that.
Just out of curiosity I put 300 kg of lead acids as extra weight to
trailer and drove 200 km with one charge. Now If I would have had
there Lions too and connected to the drivesystem, I would have
achieved 400-450 km range with the Berlingo.
I do not know about you but after that kind of trip I really need to
get some rest and sleep. That's nearly 6 hours of continous driving.
That is already extreme.
If the EV should do the 500 km every freaking day it has to be
specially designed for the job.
Clearly the case is that if you need ICE range and instant fueling
forget EVs for now. It just isn't the right tool for the job.
-Jukka
Dan Frederiksen kirjoitti:
you are just being silly :) and wrong
rather than a range extender you would rather just drive your ev??
: ) why didn't I think of that. that's brilliant
jukka wrote:
Com'on man. I'd rather swallow razor blades than destroy the whole
EV concept with smelly ICE.
I rather drive my EVs all around and then rent a Ferrari for a
week with the saved money every year.
I'll be the guy passing with Italian horses while you murder the
small ice with overrevs.. eh eh ehee hhee.. °°°! (Am I out of
line? hope so :)
-Jukka
Dan Frederiksen kirjoitti:
no. small onboard ice gen for use only when batteries are flat.
jukka wrote:
How about a small trailer with even a bit of room for ballast ?
I was plannig to make a trailer with Lions under the floor. And
a nice small cover for the extra luggage.
The trailer would be an independent unit with charger and etc.
You drive with it a distance (say 80 miles) then you leave it
for charging some where and continue without it or you can just
keep dragging it along untile reached the destiation. You could
still use the oh-so-old lead in the car for comfort.
A small trailer could sell for 5000-8000 USD. Or how about If
few would be made and rented for testing ? Or a EV chapter
aquire one and folks can use it when needed. 1 week annually
each member.
-Jukka
Michael Wendell kirjoitti:
I've considered a veggie oil diesel or a propane generator
given that the tesla roadster motor makes 170kWh shouldn't
30Kw generation be possible in a reasonably sized generator.
didn't we just spend more than a month discussing the
innefficiencies of an
onboard (or trailered) generator? is it possible to put this
information in
the FAQ somewhere and point all future discussions to that URL?
m.
Michael Wendell
Speedgoat Bicycles
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Win a $5000 custom mountain bike, and help fight breat cancer!
http://www.speedgoat.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks for the info, Lee. I would be very unsurprised if Raser Technologies
Symetron system is very similar. Perhaps in time we'll see.
As for availability of Chorus motors and their applicability to EVs, does
anyone have useful info?
Thanks,
Lon Hull
Superstructure Industries LLC
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lee Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2007 7:06 PM
Subject: Re: Chorusmotors.com
From: GWMobile
I would be interested to hear opinions from list members about the
patents from this company.
www.chorusmotors.com
It's a legitimate company, with a valid concept. They've been around for
at least 10 years. Fundamentally, they have worked out improved winding
techniques and inverter driving waveforms to improve on the traditional
3-phase AC motor.
A standard 3-phase motor is designed and optimized to run on perfect
sinewaves. But this is a very difficult waveform to produce efficiently
with an inverter.
Normal brushed DC motors are polyphase motors; they have a much larger
number of phases than 3. By carefully positioning the armature windings,
they have designed motors that can run efficiently with square waves on
each phase winding. These square waves are easily produced by the
commutator.
The chorus motor is an effort to find a compromise between these extremes;
complex inverter to get simple motor windings versus simple inverter but
complex motor windings. They add more phases (but not as many as a DC
motor), and let the inverter generate squarer waveforms (but not
completely square waves).
--
I would not waste my life in friction when it could be turned into
momentum. -- Frances Willard
--
Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Zeke Yewdall wrote:
Are these different concordes than the ones sold for PV systems?
Because I can get a 6 volt 210AH one (about the same capacity as a 12
volt 95AH one) for only $230 retail. I haven't looked up the 12 volt
one, because it's not a standard one I buy alot, but I imagine the
price would be similar. I love them for PV, but I didn't think they
were high enough rate for EV's.
The ones I have are their "Chairman" series. You probably have their
"Sun-Xtender" series.
Even the Chairman series has more internal resistance than an Optima or
Hawker, and isn't good for high currents. In my case, I have the
controller current turned down all the way so I don't draw more than 400
amps.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
But how far would a Prius go on battery only? The latest Prius has only 100
lbs of batts.
----- Original Message -----
From: "(-Phil-)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2007 1:06 PM
Subject: Re: How the Prius Works
> I imagine if you ever found a Prius with a blown ICE, you could, with a
> metric crapton of work, take it out and just use the 2 MGs in an all
> electric car. You'd have to re-write the software, or (probably easier)
> just cut the existing controls right up to the inverter and put in your
own
> logic to drive them.
>
> With the ICE out, you could increase the electric-only speed, as both MGs
> would be running.
>
> A little known mode of the Prius is called "coast" where you are going too
> fast for Electric only, but the car doesn't want the ICE running. It
shuts
> off the ICE and alters the valve timing somehow to drastically reduce
> pumping loss. The ICE still turns, but no fuel, no spark, and no air.
>
> -Phil
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: "Michael Perry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Subject: Re: DMV in PA
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 21:55:29 -0700
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
A good point. Some states don't take kindly to "salvage" titles. PA is like
many states (see below) where salvage titles can mean a car damaged heavily,
or simply an older car that can be easily restored, though it will still
carry a salvage title. It leads a buyer to think the car was seriously
damaged. One such was Judi's PU. A dented fender, broken grill, and
bumper... and it was marked as salvage. I restored the '94 Toyota (for $200)
to like new condition, but the salvage title reduced its resell to silly low
prices. All because a body shop wanted 15 times the price for the same job.
I think it's a simple way that insurance companies keep you from getting the
full value for your car... possibly linked to new car sales. (This truck ran
great. It should, since it had 65K miles. They gave us $2000, which was far
less than a $15K replacement.)
Reconstructed Vehicle - A vehicle, other than an antique or classic vehicle,
for which a certificate of salvage was issued and is thereafter restored to
operating condition to meet the vehicle equipment and inspection standards.
Salvaged Vehicle - A vehicle which is inoperable or unable to meet the
vehicle equipment and inspection standards to theextent that the cost of
repairs would exceed the value of the repaired vehicle. The term does not
include a vehicle whichwould qualify as an antique or classic vehicle except
for its lack of restoration or maintenance.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Derrick J Brashear" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2007 4:23 PM
Subject: DMV in PA
> Since I promised I'd talk about it, the problems are
>
> 1) to get the California title (branded Salvage, not a certificate of
> slavage but a real title) ported to PA I had to trust that the
> reconstructed vehicle folks would get it right. A phone call told me,
> after some explanation, that it was at least workable, assumign whoever
> examined it checks their book of title classifications from other states
> (the word "salvage" does not automatically mean it's a certificate of
> salvage... it's a real title. really.)
>
> 2) you have to go through inspection, once to get the mv100 filled out,
> and then again after you're approved, to get a sticker. i figured this
> would be easy. my father is a state inspector. his employer was not
> willing to take the liability, so, wrong. apparently a lot of places
> aren't interested in the liability
>
> 3) and then there's the insurance question, though that was going to be a
> pain more than a real problem.
>
> in the meantime, i ran out of money, so probably i have to sell the car,
> which is currently sans batteries but otherwise still roadworthy, and
> garagae kept since i got it.
>
> life's hard, oh well.
>
--- End Message ---
