EV Digest 6973
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) RE: electric bicycle - need help
by Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Wheel alignment Or How to significantly reduce rolling resistance!
by Markus Lorch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Google presses for 100 MPG vehicle
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Adapter Problem
by "Tehben Dean" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Thundersky Exchange
by jukka <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) RE: electric bicycle - need help
by "Will Beckett \(becketts\)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) RE: Cheap
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Adapter Problem
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Thundersky Exchange
by "DOUGLAS HARTLEY" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) RE: Adapter Problem
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Thundersky Exchange
by "Dave Davidson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) RE: electric bicycle - need help
by "Chuck Hays" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Made the first step recently...
by Matthew Drobnak <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: reed switch application
by Paul <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Project #3 is a Lawn Mower
by mike golub <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Adapter Problem
by "Tehben Dean" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Wheel alignment Or How to significantly reduce rolling
resistance!
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
The newer BionX kit is nice. I think it has a Li-Po pack.
I've installed a few of these on Birdy folding bikes. All the
installations were done on the back wheel and involves replacing the
rear cassette with a screw-on cassette.
The cool thing about the kits are they have regen and you can control
the sensitivity of the regen on the LCD dashboard.
They are on the pricey side though, but it is a well engineered kit.
I think they are out of Canada.
Chip Gribben
ElectroScooterWorks.com
On Jun 29, 2007, at 4:10 PM, Electric Vehicle Discussion List wrote:
From: "Chuck Hays" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: June 29, 2007 2:30:06 PM EDT
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: RE: electric bicycle - need help
Two things:
I know that copy of SciAm is in our library here at
Thompson Rivers University. Let me know if you
need a good Xerox(tm) of it. Perhaps even a scan,
if you can't find it through a good academic search
engine.
Also, a quick browse through our online catalogue
turns up this gem, which I will have in hand
shortly:
Wilson, D.G., Papadopoulos, J. (2004) Bicycling
Science, 3rd Ed. Cambridge, MA: MIT Press
Interested in the thread because I've decided
to proceed in this direction myself. I've been
looking at the BionX kit -- they're making some
overly optimistic claims but they don't seem to
be as overly optimistic as some others. :)=)}
I'm planning to start with their 350W hub motor
and high-capacity pack, and then upgrade with
a front hub motor as well and more battery oomph
as finances allow. Will have to upgrade the old
Trek 800 as I go along.
What I'm aiming at is getting that EV grin, also
some exercise. I've given up riding the bicycle
in favour of the motorcycle due to the 40 km
commute to and from work. My neighbour is
a hard-core who pedals to work regularly, though.
Going fast would be nice, but I'll settle for being
able to make it up the hill to the U. Having a bit
of a boost to speed up the trip a bit is my aim,
using one or both motors as inclination or
exuberance dictates. I'd like to be able to
hack the trip in 90 minutes, which would be
half an hour quicker than the neighbour's time.
I think if you're looking for sustained 80km/hr
you'd better be building a fully-faired recumbent.
One with an aft-facing stoker position would be
even better -- I remember they were hitting
100 km/hr just on muscle power in the Human
Powered Vehicle races that I followed back in
the late '70s.
Chuck
Kamloops, BC
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi folks,
have been driving round in my 90V Tavria for the last two weeks every
chance I got. I installed and Amp and Voltmeter and closely monitored
current and voltage. Also monitored my weakest block. Point was I was a
bit dissappointed with the performance. Reading all your emails for
several years now about the great acceleration of a DC series wound
motor etc. (I have a 120lb 8" series motor mated to a manual gear box
with a curtis 1221R and a 90V pack in a small car - 2500lbs)
If I floor it right from the start there is an OK accelleration but at
the cost of 450A which, as I was told, will murder my batteries in no
time. I am creeping up hills with 20mph (always in the smallest gear I
have) and still drawing 200A. I could go faster but am afraid my
batteries will not like it. And the 50psi pressure in the tires lets me
feel every little rock. So much for my physics lesson.
Now the good news. I found out one reason for the low performance when
looking at my new front tires after only 100miles were on them. They
looked like I would corner the car at high speeds all the time. When
comparing the wheels I noted that they aint pointing in the same
direction. Well sort of. The steering was off about 1 inch. Adjusting
the steering meant removing all front batteries incl. the front battery
rack. So, trying not to hurt my back, I spend yesterday evening doing
just that and adjusting the wheels. Oh wonder, it now rolls much easier.
I can push it with little effort.
Hill climbing and accelleration still needs Amps like heck but I can see
and feel a clear difference in Amps drawn going a steady speed. Probably
a 15% improvement. So, I guess I learned my lesson and will pay more
attention to such details like wheel alignment :) This is all not such a
big deal with my Elec-Traks. I guess they would just happily plow along
with slightly misaligned front wheels (especially with the heavy garden
tiller on the rear)
Markus
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yeah, we've been through this, calculated it with the data given by even
the best-case mfgs out there, and it just won't get anywhere near working.
The power requirements and the unit's size/weight are completely
impractical. Furthermore, the performance is so limited at high
temperature differentials that when it gets nice and hot outside the
coolers won't produce any cold to speak of at all no matter how many are
employed.
Search the archives, there is all the specific data there, but in short
its usefulness has already been shot down.
Danny
(-Phil-) wrote:
TECs are not very efficient. Rugged yes, but if you are trying to
save energy, stay far away!
-Phil
----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Pikkula" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2007 11:28 AM
Subject: Re: Google presses for 100 MPG vehicle
When the interior of the car (or even frequently ambient here in
Houston) temp is greater than body temp, and you use a fan, one will
actually heat one's self at a faster rate.
And of course, dress the the weather. Don't try to keep your car in
the 60's when it's >100+ deg.F outside. Use fans or "swamp coolers"
to do more of the work.
A swamp cooler will not work in Houston when the humidity is greater
than 75% which is more than 75% of the time. For a swamp cooler to
work it needs lower humidity for evaporative cooling.
Do you really want to use an inefficient automotive belt-driven A/C
system,
I could easily switch to a thermoelectric cooler (TEC). I used these
in graduate school for infrared radiometric temperature calibration.
Very robust and solid state. Here's one I might be toying with when
my compressor fails. http://www.melcor.com/ssair.html
Has anyone used TECs for A/C in EVs?
I don't mean to be argumentative about A/C issue. Spend a summer in
Houston without A/C in your car: you end up not wanting to leave the
house. I know energy isn't free and I'm willing to sacrifice some
range for not smelling like a gym locker room when I get to work.
I also don't mean to rip Houston either. The pay is at par with the
rest of the country and living expenses are a fraction of what they
are on the coasts. You just have to put up with five months of
oppressive heat. The other 7 months are great.
Brian
On 6/21/07, Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
[snip]
And of course, dress the the weather. Don't try to keep your car in
the 60's when it's >100+ deg.F outside. Use fans or "swamp coolers"
to do more of the work.
[snip]
Like A/C, if you start out assuming it is a necessity, then you
unconsciously warp the >whole design to *make* it a necessity.
--
"Those who say it cannot be done should not interrupt the one who is
doing it." -- Chinese proverb
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yeah, my truck has a V6 in it and EA said that they did not have the pattern.
The thing that scares me about building one is getting everything
perfectly aligned.
Grassroots guy after fastening the motor to the flywheel just bolted a
plate to the tranny and one to the motor and then set the tranny ontop
and turned the motor on! then he taped it with a hammer untill it
sounded smooth 8-0 Yikes!
His method didn't look particularly difficult he was making
measurements with what looked like a frameing square :)
I can say that it helped me believe that it might be possible for me
to do. However having the transmission flywheel whatever open to the
outside seems a little strange??
Cheers,
--
TEhben
'hElix EV'
evalbum: http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1225
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
My company Oy Finnish Electric Vehicle Technologies Ltd (FEVT) was
established (2003) to design, produce and provide the most extreme but
feasible Linux based BMS on the planet earth. With remote diagnostics
and some basic AI to estimate SOH.
I have office here in Shenzhen since there is a EV fleet in TS factory.
I need to be in direct touch to prototypes when the tests are being
done. So instead of lurking around I have now own office space to
accommodate servers and other stuff.
Vehicles are test beds for BMS for China markets. When the setup is
ready (vehicles, motors, controllers, BMS, cells) it will be on the
China markets in fleets. (read: thousands of EV buses with 180 kWh
battery packs => more production => less production cost => more
feasible EVs for EVeryone)
I also have opened a production unit for battery systems in Varkaus city
in Finland to serve EU customers. 7 people now doing their best to ramp
up the feasibel Lion battery pack production. 1000 battery systems will
roll out during this year. All sold already btw.
We also have our own QC in China. No use to send some monday-cells over
the half of the globe. New factory for cells could start its operation
already in 2009. Until then we need to manage with existing solutions.
CCS is Cell Control System. I renamed my BMS since there is so many
"BMS" around that I consider to be .. say.. less technically advanced ?
:) I feel that the term was raped and left to die. Poor thing...
I showed today a PUNCH of emails from you guys since 2003 from the
archieves. TS folks could not belive their eyes. I got a Chinese answer
"maybe we could send some new samples so people can see how much better
cells we have now ?". I said in Finnish way "Bull Shit". They are now
considering my proposal about how to fix the situation even some. I hope
we can get in to an agreement.
I hate this situation because it is affecting MY sales (read:
investment) in EU. There are hundreds of readers of this list in EU and
they do not wan't to be assosiated with TS. Few exemptions in UK and
Italy. But I would say that the effect is measured in millions of euros
already. And it's not even my fault ! GGGRRR!!!
-Jukka
[EMAIL PROTECTED] kirjoitti:
Jukka
From some of your past emails like the one below I had the impression you
were employed by TS.
jukka wrote:
p.s.- I'm currently sitting in our office in TS factory (Shenzhen,
China). Any other questions guys?
Jukka
What is the company of yours that is in the office at the TS factory? What
do you do for that company?
Sounds like you should know now if this is going to happen correct? What is
CCS?
Don Blazer
Ok Vic. Now you're already saying that there's no trusting in my words
either ? Are you not being a bit steep towards me here ?
Delivery dates and amounts will be confirmed when I have the complete
list in my hand. I will go it through with Winston and send further
details to people involved.
Also before anything happens we will confirm the pickup procedures of
the old cells so they can be verified and recycled properly. If the
cells are missing or such we need to see it through case by case.
I'm committed to this since I think I can pull this off. I've learned so
much from the list and most of oldtimers here. From You too Victor. So
can I now do something in return ?
-JukkaI just saw this message. Sorry for not replying earlier.
Me working for TS ? What ? Who said that ? I'm working for my own
company which is working closely with TS. Idea is to get the biz on the
rails in Europe. No aims what so ever for US markets.
Currently the battery factory is running red and leadtimes are growing.
New production line in on the way and will enable much better quality
and greater volume.
I've been working for years to complete the management system and
pursued only system sales. I have now also big reponsibility to
investors to make sure their millions are safe. In FEVT. Not in TS.
Wild sales of plain cells without waranty is NO GO. Sooo many
"professionals" have had "Ooops.." -stuff going on for years. I try to
get that stopped. It's hurting everyone in this biz in longer run.
I'm not referring to the group purchase since I WITNESSED the bad cell
delivery in Victors lab !
I will not allow any "replacements" because it would mean the users
would have the possiblity to burn their houses and relatives down to
ground by accident. If anything happens it will be a complete system
with sealed cases. NO TINKERING !
THEN...
I let the users to tell how they feel the new sets IF I can get the
cells below the CCS from TS. Now that's on agenda for tomorrow
morning... thumbs up!
-Jukka
************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have a Crystalyte, Phoenix Racer on a recumbent bike with 20" wheels. My
speed is about 29mph with lead/acid and now with Li-ion it is about 31mph
with really good hill climbing ability. Chip is right about making sure
your components can handle the shock at high speed but with the 20" wheel my
speeds tend to be more normal for a bike and it is a lot more comfortable on
a recumbent. I have put about 8K miles on the bike in four years. My
current setup with the Crystalyte is only a few months old but is the best
setup so far. I really like it.
-Will
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Chip Gribben
Sent: Friday, June 29, 2007 11:11 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: electric bicycle - need help
Yea, check out the Crystalyte motors, particularly the Phoenix Racer
motor using the 4840 controller. This is a 48 volt system bike on a
26 inch rim. Electric Rider carries them all.
http://www.electricrider.com/crystalyte/phoenix.htm
You can get 36 mph on this system using a high pressure racing slick
for low rolling resistence. That's close enough to 40 mph. With a
tailwind or slight downhill grade 40 mph will be easy.
The lighter the bike and rider the faster you can go but with this
motor you should use steel forks or reinforced dropouts. This sucker
will rip up an aluminum fork. A cheap sturdy 26 inch bike would
probably still get you going pretty fast with this system
particularly with a lightweight Li-Po pack.
The only thing about going fast is you gotta make sure the frame is
built to handle the torque of these motors. It's embarrasing to show
off a high speed bike only to have it disintegrate in front of your
friends.
Chip Gribben
ElectroScooterWorks.com
On Jun 29, 2007, at 1:35 PM, Electric Vehicle Discussion List wrote:
> From: "Kip C. Anderson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: June 29, 2007 10:03:31 AM EDT
> To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> Subject: Re: electric bicycle - need help
>
>
> I can't help with the calculations, but I agree that a 750W motor
> probably isn't going to get you there at it's rated voltage. I
> have however seen video of a guy with a hub motored bike claiming
> 45 mph performance. Even with a 1000W hub motor, it took a fair
> distance to get up past 40 and I don't know what voltage he was
> running.
>
> The nice thing about hub motors is that they come in varied
> windings that would allow this kind of speed without worrying about
> overspeeding. There are dual-wound motors for mixed low end and
> high speed performance as well. Crystalyte seems to offer the best
> range of choices for that right now.
>
> - Kip
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jukka wrote:
> You will never distribute the power evenly on the paralled individual
> cells. There is just no way to compensate the drain according
> the cell internal resistance.
Again, this may be true, but not of great practical significance. You
cannot get precisely equal current sharing through paralleled FETs or
diodes, etc., but it is still possible to build very reliable power
electronics providing one understands this and designs such that
everything works well as long as the parts are matched closely "enough"
;^>
> That's the waranty time. Our customers REQUIRE at least 5 yeaqrs of
> operation and 1000 cycles with 80% DOD.
But is the warranty >1000 cycles *and* >5 years, or is it whichever
comes first? ;^>
What are the specs that the system must still meet at the end of 5yrs or
1000 cycles?
Commuting with my EV, it would take me 2 weeks to acrue the 200mi/cycle
you suggest. It would take me 19 years to accumulate just 500 such
cycles and 100,000mi at this rate!
> Sorry but you are not exactly right here. It is not same.
> Array with dozens of paralled cells have different resistance in
> connections. Also the assembly size puts the amps going
> on the end plates uneven lengths which adds some resistance.
> Cells nearby the connection to other module will see a bit
> higher load IF all cells have same internal resistance.
This also is true, but is just one of those details that must be
attended to in the design of the interconnections. It is no different
from needing to design the interconnection properly in a motor
controller, etc. to promote current sharing between the multiple
paralleled bus caps or other devices.
You are, of course, more intimately familiar with the internal details
of the TS 'cells', so I will not attempt to debate their behaviour with
you. You have not, however, provided any reason for me be believe that
their internal construction results in exactly equal current division
between each internal parallel cell. Indeed, the cynic might argue that
TS have taken advantage of their cells' high internal impedance to make
the variations in 'connection' resistance less significant in comparison
;^> Is detailed information about their internal construction available
to the general public?
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Steve has another video where he shows making the motor shaft coupler. He gets
a cheap one for a pulley, bolts it on, spins it with the electric motor itself,
and machines it to size. Something really slick about doing it that way is it
is guaranteed to be concentric with the rotation of the electric motor -- so no
wobble or vibration due to the coupler being off center.
Another option is you could buy that part from Electro Auto, and make the rest
of your own adaptor. That is what I elected to do, as the coupler needs to be
very precise and strong, yet small. The taperlock coupler from Electro Auto is
a work of art and fit perfectly. It was also very tough to remove, which is
good!
Disclaimer: No financial interest in the success or failure of grassrootsev or
Electro Auto.
----- Original Message ----
From: Tehben Dean <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Sent: Friday, June 29, 2007 1:42:44 PM
Subject: Re: Adapter Problem
----- From a previous message
I just watched the CD :) not nearly as scary as I thought it would be!
Also what about the shaft coupler, if I make my plate do I need to
make the coupler also or are there stock couplers that can be modified
or something? Or is that something that a machine shop will be able to
do without a problem?
----- This message
Yeah, my truck has a V6 in it and EA said that they did not have the pattern.
The thing that scares me about building one is getting everything
perfectly aligned.
Grassroots guy after fastening the motor to the flywheel just bolted a
plate to the tranny and one to the motor and then set the tranny ontop
and turned the motor on! then he taped it with a hammer untill it
sounded smooth 8-0 Yikes!
His method didn't look particularly difficult he was making
measurements with what looked like a frameing square :)
I can say that it helped me believe that it might be possible for me
to do. However having the transmission flywheel whatever open to the
outside seems a little strange??
Cheers,
--
TEhben
'hElix EV'
evalbum: http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1225
____________________________________________________________________________________
Sucker-punch spam with award-winning protection.
Try the free Yahoo! Mail Beta.
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Jukka,
Thanks for the great review of your company, work and relationship with
Thunder Sky. I am glad to see this information getting out in public for
everyone to understand better, myself included. My best wishes and
appreciation go out to you for the big job you have courageously taken on
and for all you are doing, without being responsible, to help early TS
users.
I hope and trust things will be cleared and improved to everyone's benefit
and satisfaction, and we will all be able to move forward from here with
more confidence and a reliable source of reasonably priced and good lithium
cells.
BTW, the recent apparent lack of response from TS was just a problem on my
side not seeing the email from a different address than usual - Winston had
responded promptly as TS always did to me in the past.
Thanks again and Best Regards,
Doug
From: jukka <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Thundersky Exchange
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 23:37:17 +0300
My company Oy Finnish Electric Vehicle Technologies Ltd (FEVT) was
established (2003) to design, produce and provide the most extreme but
feasible Linux based BMS on the planet earth. With remote diagnostics and
some basic AI to estimate SOH.
snipped...
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Tehben Dean wrote:
> Yeah, my truck has a V6 in it and EA said that they did not
> have the pattern.
But if the truck was available with the 20R and 22R bolting up to the
same tranny, then there is still a very good chance that what they have
will work. They, of course, cannot say that it will or will not until
they see your flywheel etc. to compare with the dimensions of the hub
for a 20R or 22R.
Surely with a bit of searching you can either get your hands on a
20R/22R flywheel to compare against your V6's, or you can determine if
the model tranny in your truck is the same as in domestic Toyota PUs
(therefore probably matching EA's existing 20R/22R pickup pattern).
Since the 20R/22R was an option for your HiLux, you could use use EA's
22R Pickup adapter and replace your V6 flywheel/pressure plate with
parts off a 22R.
Lots of options! ;^>
> Grassroots guy after fastening the motor to the flywheel just bolted a
> plate to the tranny and one to the motor and then set the tranny ontop
> and turned the motor on! then he taped it with a hammer untill it
> sounded smooth 8-0 Yikes!
> His method didn't look particularly difficult he was making
> measurements with what looked like a frameing square :)
> I can say that it helped me believe that it might be possible for me
> to do. However having the transmission flywheel whatever open to the
> outside seems a little strange??
It isn't necessary to leave the flywheel open to the outside (and is
probably undesirable most of the time).
I haven't seen Steve's video (come to think of it, haven't seen a post
from Steve Clunn in a long time either....), but adapters typically
consist of 3 parts: a coupler to connect the motor shaft to the tranny
shaft (this may or may not include a flywheel/clutch assembly), a flat
adapter plate that bolts to the tranny bellhousing around its periphery,
and a spacer that attaches between the motor and adapter plate and
spaces the motor away from the adapter plate by the right amount that
the flywheel (if used) is the stock distance from the face of the
adapter plate for proper clutch operation.
It sounds as if you could use Steve's method without leaving anything
open to the outside; just bolt the adapter plate to the tranny and tap
the spacer/motor until it is centered on the adapter plate, then secure
it permanently.
While most adapter plates don't, you might want to include a removable
inspection plate such as most ICE vehicles do, just in case you ever
want to peek inside the bellhousing without removing the entire motor.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The way I read it, you will be selling cells which have already been tested,
along with the BMS to keep them happy, all integrated into a pack. If so,
that is fantastic news and should greatly help to calm the fears related to
the early defective cells. Once proven, the demand for these will likely
skyrocket.
It sure wouldn't hurt to send some new cells over here provided they are
sent to the right people. Victor, Lee Hart, Rich Rudman come to mind as
folks who could test them objectively. I'm sure there are others I'm not
thinking of. Once a company's reputation is tarnished by a defective
product, it takes a while to repair that reputation even though the product
may become the best on the market.
On this side of the globe, General Motors is a good example with their cars
(yes, they do sell something besides trucks). As late as 2000 (the year of
my pickup), their cars were crap, as is my truck. Now, I read that their
quality has improved to rival the Japanese. However, many people won't buy
their cars based on their experience with their previous cars, and buy
Japanese instead (this doesn't count those of us who won't buy GM products
based on principle). It will take a number of years and some unique
products, such as the Volt, to win people back over. Even if I had nothing
against GM, I would have to be convinced that their products offerred good
value.
Thunder Sky is in a similar situation. They had some really poor product
when first starting up and some folks got burned. Folks who know how to take
care of batteries, not idiots like me who could kill the best batteries on
earth. I applaud your efforts and wish you great success. It sounds like
you have the problems solved, and if you sell systems with warrantees, and
stand by what you sell, and prove them in service, the word will quickly
spread.
Dave
From: jukka <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Thundersky Exchange
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 23:37:17 +0300
My company Oy Finnish Electric Vehicle Technologies Ltd (FEVT) was
established (2003) to design, produce and provide the most extreme but
feasible Linux based BMS on the planet earth. With remote diagnostics and
some basic AI to estimate SOH.
I have office here in Shenzhen since there is a EV fleet in TS factory. I
need to be in direct touch to prototypes when the tests are being done. So
instead of lurking around I have now own office space to accommodate
servers and other stuff.
Vehicles are test beds for BMS for China markets. When the setup is ready
(vehicles, motors, controllers, BMS, cells) it will be on the China markets
in fleets. (read: thousands of EV buses with 180 kWh battery packs => more
production => less production cost => more feasible EVs for EVeryone)
I also have opened a production unit for battery systems in Varkaus city in
Finland to serve EU customers. 7 people now doing their best to ramp up the
feasibel Lion battery pack production. 1000 battery systems will roll out
during this year. All sold already btw.
We also have our own QC in China. No use to send some monday-cells over the
half of the globe. New factory for cells could start its operation already
in 2009. Until then we need to manage with existing solutions.
CCS is Cell Control System. I renamed my BMS since there is so many "BMS"
around that I consider to be .. say.. less technically advanced ? :) I
feel that the term was raped and left to die. Poor thing...
I showed today a PUNCH of emails from you guys since 2003 from the
archieves. TS folks could not belive their eyes. I got a Chinese answer
"maybe we could send some new samples so people can see how much better
cells we have now ?". I said in Finnish way "Bull Shit". They are now
considering my proposal about how to fix the situation even some. I hope we
can get in to an agreement.
I hate this situation because it is affecting MY sales (read: investment)
in EU. There are hundreds of readers of this list in EU and they do not
wan't to be assosiated with TS. Few exemptions in UK and Italy. But I would
say that the effect is measured in millions of euros already. And it's not
even my fault ! GGGRRR!!!
-Jukka
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
From: Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Yea, check out the Crystalyte motors, particularly the Phoenix Racer
motor using the 4840 controller. This is a 48 volt system bike on a
26 inch rim. Electric Rider carries them all.
http://www.electricrider.com/crystalyte/phoenix.htm
Oooooohhhhhh. I like. Man, you just
set back the planning process by weeks.
:)=)}
Possibly saved me some money, too --
I was gearing up to toss Cdn$1700+
at the BionX. This looks considerably
more robust. Thinking about that
last hill I might look at the Brute instead,
because I'm not gonna need to ride
faster than 25 mph and I AM gonna
need some grunt to get up the hill.
Or I might just decide that the Racer
is the Whole Mahooha and just try
to get up the hill cranking in the
tallest gear I can manage.
The upside here is I can do without
a separate front hub motor, AND I can
put a hydro fork on with a disc brake.
An additional 70 pounds on the back is
gonna make it harder to endo when
grabbing the binders.
:)=)} Decisions, decisions. Sometimes
life sucks. This is not one of those times.
Chuck
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
2000 Lincoln LS, Warp 11" motor. :-)
But it's through an automatic. :-(
Anyone know what happens on a full-throttle shift with the converter
locked? Will it arc?
-Matt
Ian Hooper wrote:
Ooer Zilla 2K-HV with PHET batteries, that sounds like a rather
interesting conversion!
What's the donor vehicle? What motor are you looking at? Details,
details! ;)
-Ian
On 29/06/2007, at 7:04 PM, Matthew Drobnak wrote:
On Thursday, the 27th, I ordered a Zilla 2k, 300 V controller....with
an estimated 20 week lead time. :-/
The good news is that I'll have a controller that'll kick butt. The
bad news is it will take a while.
Approx lead time on PHET batteries is a month. I've read 2-3 weeks on
the motor. So, by far, this is the longest wait.
On my way to being an EVer,
-Matt
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Jun 27, 2007, at 9:17 PM, Lee Hart wrote:
If you just tape the reed switch to the motor wire without a core,
it will take a higher current to pull in the reed. If it's a 10
ampere-turn reed, it might take 50 amps in the motor wire to pull
in the reed because the magnetic flux spreads out all around the
wire and most of it misses the reed.
A 1-turn coil with the motor wire is awkward to make; the wire is
so thick that it won't bend around a tight radius like a reed switch.
To get the highest sensitivity out of the reed from a straight
length of motor wire, you put a core around the wire, but put the
reed at *right angles* to the wire. Shape the core like a horseshoe
magnet, with the reed bridging the gap at the end, and the motor
wire going through the center of the horseshoe. The wire generates
a circular magnetic field around it. The core has much lower
reluctance than air, so almost all the magnetic flux generated
flows in it. It then passes through just a small air gap to the
reed, so very little flux is missed.
Thank you Lee for kicking that brain fart out of my head. I don't
want to put the created magnetic circuit in a toroid!
You also presented an idea of how a strait wire setup may compare to
amp-turns. (around 1/5th turn +/-) Thank you.
Since the ignition switch and brake light switches are in the front
of my car my plan is to place the reed on a main battery wire in the
center of the pack (far away from the motor, controller, and main
contactor.) The brake light circuit is non functional with the
ignition switch is off so it should all go dead together (no funny
cross power feeding in the 12v system.) I will have to carefully
check my Buggy wiring diagrams but it seems OK at a glance. It looks
like I could add a diode around the reed switch and cause the 1/2
brake failure warning light to stay on (even with the brake released)
in the event this shut down circuit is activated.
Here is my hack on Lee's good work:
+12v power___________/____________________
switched by | NC contact of relay |
ign. switch |_______/________ __|_
NO contact | | _|
of relay | --- _| main contactor coil
| ^ _| Albright SW200 w/ diode
motor wire | |____|
+ 12v switched ========== | |
by brake lamp_______/_________|_ |
switch NO reed | _| 12v |
switch --- _| relay |
^ _| coil |
|____| w/diode |
GND___________________________|___________|
This is what I was trying to describe in my previous post. The system
should do nothing unless the brake light circuit is trying to light
the brake lights while current is flowing to the motor. The test is
to press the brakes with my left foot and push a little bit on the
throttle with the right foot. Since that is really bad for the
current limit in an older Curtis 1221B at a stall the test should be
done at speed. It seems pretty simple and a beach buggy isn't
supposed to be a refined car anyway <g>.
On Jun 28, 2007, at 6:02 AM, Phil Marino wrote:
This may seem too simple, but why not just have the main contactor
open when the brake lights are on?
Simpler is more reliable.
CLUNK, CLUNK, CLUNK is the easy answer. The real answer is that
removing my foot from the brake would turn the car back on (possibly
full on in the even of a controller failure.) My idea would latch the
main contactor off until you cycle the IGN switch. A 1420 lb. EV can
be real jumpy in low or reverse gear. Just because I bark the tires
doesn't mean anything failed. It happens all the time in reverse.
Thanx,
Paul "neon" G.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
which PM motor do you have?
--- Joe Smalley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> If you use a PM motor and power it with the
> recommended voltage, it will
> self govern without a speed control.
>
> If you use a shunt wound motor, it behaves like a PM
> motor but you have the
> option of field weakening to increase the speed.
>
> If you use a series wound motor, you run the risk of
> overreving the motor
> if/when a belt breaks or the clutch is disengaged.
> If you install a rev
> limiter, there is no problem.
>
> I got a PM motor for mine but have not had time to
> install it.
>
> Joe Smalley
> Rural Kitsap County WA
> Former owner of 48 Volt Fiesta
> NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "mike golub" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2007 12:34 AM
> Subject: Project #3 is a Lawn Mower
>
>
> > Well, I am almost done with the 98 Chevy Metro,
> and I
> > have driven over 6,000 miles on the 86 Toyota
> Pickup.
> >
> > I recently purchased a MTD riding mower it looks
> like
> > the same model as Wayland's
> >
> > http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/38
> >
> > Of course, it is still stock and has a 12 HP B&S,
> a
> > 38" cutting blade.
> >
> > So I was looking for motor recommendations. I will
> > keep using it as a mower...And I was wondering if
> it
> > was necessary to put a controller on the motor or
> just
> > use the mowers speed control? It has reverse and
> > forward.
> >
> > I also picked up a 78 Polaris snow machine, but
> I'm
> > not too concerned about that at the moment.
> >
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Michael G, Fairbanks
> >
> >
> >
>
____________________________________________________________________________
> _______
> > You snooze, you lose. Get messages ASAP with
> AutoCheck
> > in the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta.
> >
>
http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/mailbeta/newmail_html.html
> >
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. Play
Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games.
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I emailed EA to find out what transmission patterns they have for
toyota pickups. Usually takes at least a week to get a reply though:(
I am also trying to find out the compatibility of my transmission with
other engines.
Thanks,
--
TEhben
'hElix EV'
evalbum: http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1225
On 6/29/07, Roger Stockton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Tehben Dean wrote:
> Yeah, my truck has a V6 in it and EA said that they did not
> have the pattern.
But if the truck was available with the 20R and 22R bolting up to the
same tranny, then there is still a very good chance that what they have
will work. They, of course, cannot say that it will or will not until
they see your flywheel etc. to compare with the dimensions of the hub
for a 20R or 22R.
Surely with a bit of searching you can either get your hands on a
20R/22R flywheel to compare against your V6's, or you can determine if
the model tranny in your truck is the same as in domestic Toyota PUs
(therefore probably matching EA's existing 20R/22R pickup pattern).
Since the 20R/22R was an option for your HiLux, you could use use EA's
22R Pickup adapter and replace your V6 flywheel/pressure plate with
parts off a 22R.
Lots of options! ;^>
> Grassroots guy after fastening the motor to the flywheel just bolted a
> plate to the tranny and one to the motor and then set the tranny ontop
> and turned the motor on! then he taped it with a hammer untill it
> sounded smooth 8-0 Yikes!
> His method didn't look particularly difficult he was making
> measurements with what looked like a frameing square :)
> I can say that it helped me believe that it might be possible for me
> to do. However having the transmission flywheel whatever open to the
> outside seems a little strange??
It isn't necessary to leave the flywheel open to the outside (and is
probably undesirable most of the time).
I haven't seen Steve's video (come to think of it, haven't seen a post
from Steve Clunn in a long time either....), but adapters typically
consist of 3 parts: a coupler to connect the motor shaft to the tranny
shaft (this may or may not include a flywheel/clutch assembly), a flat
adapter plate that bolts to the tranny bellhousing around its periphery,
and a spacer that attaches between the motor and adapter plate and
spaces the motor away from the adapter plate by the right amount that
the flywheel (if used) is the stock distance from the face of the
adapter plate for proper clutch operation.
It sounds as if you could use Steve's method without leaving anything
open to the outside; just bolt the adapter plate to the tranny and tap
the spacer/motor until it is centered on the adapter plate, then secure
it permanently.
While most adapter plates don't, you might want to include a removable
inspection plate such as most ICE vehicles do, just in case you ever
want to peek inside the bellhousing without removing the entire motor.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If you have been reading the list for years, how did you miss the point
about 450 amp curtis having barely adequate performance? And that is with
a 120V pack, couple low amps with a low voltage pack you have have to
expect low performance.
Series wound motors are great performers, but they can't make power out of
thin air. Your controller and battery pack are good for 37 hp maximum,
that is about 30% less power than the original ICE.
Hopefully it is enough to keep you happy. Have fun and try not to murder
your batteries ;-)
Cheers.
> have been driving round in my 90V Tavria for the last two weeks every
> chance I got. I installed and Amp and Voltmeter and closely monitored
> current and voltage. Also monitored my weakest block. Point was I was a
> bit dissappointed with the performance. Reading all your emails for
> several years now about the great acceleration of a DC series wound
> motor etc. (I have a 120lb 8" series motor mated to a manual gear box
> with a curtis 1221R and a 90V pack in a small car - 2500lbs)
> If I floor it right from the start there is an OK accelleration but at
> the cost of 450A which, as I was told, will murder my batteries in no
> time. I am creeping up hills with 20mph (always in the smallest gear I
> have) and still drawing 200A. I could go faster but am afraid my
> batteries will not like it. And the 50psi pressure in the tires lets me
> feel every little rock. So much for my physics lesson.
>
> Now the good news. I found out one reason for the low performance when
> looking at my new front tires after only 100miles were on them. They
> looked like I would corner the car at high speeds all the time. When
> comparing the wheels I noted that they aint pointing in the same
> direction. Well sort of. The steering was off about 1 inch. Adjusting
> the steering meant removing all front batteries incl. the front battery
> rack. So, trying not to hurt my back, I spend yesterday evening doing
> just that and adjusting the wheels. Oh wonder, it now rolls much easier.
> I can push it with little effort.
>
> Hill climbing and accelleration still needs Amps like heck but I can see
> and feel a clear difference in Amps drawn going a steady speed. Probably
> a 15% improvement. So, I guess I learned my lesson and will pay more
> attention to such details like wheel alignment :) This is all not such a
> big deal with my Elec-Traks. I guess they would just happily plow along
> with slightly misaligned front wheels (especially with the heavy garden
> tiller on the rear)
>
> Markus
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
