EV Digest 7083
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Is GM Playing Games with the Volt?
by Dan Frederiksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Is GM Playing Games with the Volt?
by Brian Jackson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Ni-MH cells and Chevron (Re: EV digest 7078)
by Ian Hooper <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Is GM Playing Games with the Volt?
by Dan Frederiksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) RE: Is GM Playing Games with the Volt?
by <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Is GM Playing Games with the Volt?
by Dan Frederiksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) RE: Is GM Playing Games with the Volt?
by <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Modifying a zilla speed sensor
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: New Lion Electric Vehicles. Starting under 30k.
by Peter Eckhoff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: AGNS takes NEDRA record # 6
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
11) Re: Battery for a Bicycle?
by Ian Hooper <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Planning for the next conversion- Batteries and controllers
by "Richard Acuti" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Ni-MH cells and Chevron (Re: EV digest 7078)
by Jack Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Neutral Timing is Better for Commuters
by "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) NEDRA board help on 3 wheeled vehicles
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
16) Additional Motor Inductance/better acceleration
by "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Planning for the next conversion- Batteries and controllers
by Don Buckshot <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Planning for the next conversion- Batteries and controllers
by Dan Frederiksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) CNN Money: Have you driven a Fjord lately?
by "Richard Acuti" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: what does Ah or ampere hour signify
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: solid state relays
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) E-Dragsters Go for Gas-Powered Records
by Ralph Merwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: FW: NEDRA Nationals Raffle motor
by Tim Humphrey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: NEDRA board help on 3 wheeled vehicles
by keith vansickle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Jims EV Raffle was RE:NEDRA Nationals Raffle motor
by Tim Humphrey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: Neutral Timing is Better for Commuters
by Jeff Major <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: DIY Electric Car Forums
by Tim Humphrey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: NEDRA board help on 3 wheeled vehicles
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
29) photos of OJ and AGNS
by keith vansickle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
nothing much about the volt in the article
someone should track down the prototype and see if they are actually
working on it. some industrial espionage if you will
I'm guessing they are still not committed to it. We have to keep the
pressure on them
Dan
Marc Geller wrote:
Is GM Playing Games with the Volt?
http://www.plugsandcars.blogspot.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
God! for GM to put the Volt on the back burner right now would be a huge
mistake for the company. General Motors NEEDS a car like this. The company has
an image deficit compared to Toyota and Honda. I sure hope they get the Volt
into production before Toyota gets their plug-in Prius to market.
Brian
---- Dan Frederiksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
=============
nothing much about the volt in the article
someone should track down the prototype and see if they are actually
working on it. some industrial espionage if you will
I'm guessing they are still not committed to it. We have to keep the
pressure on them
Dan
Marc Geller wrote:
> Is GM Playing Games with the Volt?
>
> http://www.plugsandcars.blogspot.com
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
In my experience, the only nickel batteries with decent power output
are in Sub-C size, since they're targeted at the industrial market.
Decent brands will usually claim 10C continuous discharge rates. The
downside is they only go up to about 3000mAh.
Other sizes (AA/C/D) are aimed at consumer devices - torches, radios,
that sort of thing - so aren't designed to put out much juice. I
actually played with a handful of those Tenergy AA cells as well and
was fairly disappointed, I could only pull ~2C out of them.
-Ian
On 30/07/2007, at 9:08 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Unfortunately, I have tried that Tenergy D cell, and it is crap.
I bought a bunch of Tenergy AA cells to make a NiMh battery for a
friend's mobility scooter. The 2600mAh cells tested at about
1900. It will be interesting to see how they hold up.
I emailed the factory and their online store and got no response.
Bill
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I hope they do too but satanists are known for their poor grasp on right
and wrong. It's not like they were unware of the benefits of the EV1
when they killed that..
When they smashed them in the desert..
I would be quite surprised if they did the right thing on their own from
now on. even just a little right
Dan
Brian Jackson wrote:
God! for GM to put the Volt on the back burner right now would be a huge
mistake for the company. General Motors NEEDS a car like this. The company has
an image deficit compared to Toyota and Honda. I sure hope they get the Volt
into production before Toyota gets their plug-in Prius to market.
Brian
---- Dan Frederiksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
=============
nothing much about the volt in the article
someone should track down the prototype and see if they are actually
working on it. some industrial espionage if you will
I'm guessing they are still not committed to it. We have to keep the
pressure on them
Dan
Marc Geller wrote:
Is GM Playing Games with the Volt?
http://www.plugsandcars.blogspot.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
They have been posting video clips online with Q&As and progress reports.
Some of these feature Bob Lutz. Lutz comes across as a defensive and
arrogant prick. In one of the most recent clips he responds to a question
by saying "I don't owe you anything!". That's GM's "take it or shove it"
attitude towards the consumer. Lutz obviously feels GM only answers to
shareholders and has no responsibility to society as a whole. This was in
the context of clean diesel where Lutz talks about how it's too expensive,
yada yada yada and how HCCI will be good enough. Meanwhile, VW and a couple
others are about to roll out 50-state capable clean diesels. So they must
know something GM doesn't.
If the Volt does come out, it is again, like the EV1, going to be fighting
against a corporate environment which is only begrudgingly committed to it.
-----Original Message-----
nothing much about the volt in the article
someone should track down the prototype and see if they are actually
working on it. some industrial espionage if you will
I'm guessing they are still not committed to it. We have to keep the
pressure on them
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
They have been posting video clips online with Q&As and progress reports.
got links?
do you know where they are supposed to be working on it?
Dan
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bob "I don't owe you anything!" Lutz:
http://nexttothetoilet.wordpress.com/tag/bob-lutz/
Bob Lutz on making excuses about not doing clean diesel:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXA22Q0qXNM
He talks about how urea is required for clean diesels. Some of the smaller
50-state cars coming over use an innovative system that DOES NOT require
urea.
He also doesn't even mention the benefits of diesel as far as being able to
run biodiesel and SVO/WVO. That's completely off his radar.
Volt progress report:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNbNwst3_C4
The Volt is a larger, heavier car than the EV1, and not quite as
streamlined. If price is no object, like Tesla's approach, fine, but I
think it is going to be a challenge to bring it to market under $30K with
the amount of lithium batteries it will take to give it a 40 mile range. I
would not be surprised to see specs change last minute on it that will
completely deflate the current hype. Like they could do some kind of
financing shenanigans on the battery pack like I've been hearing about.
Making cars affordable takes a lot of work across the board.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Dan Frederiksen
Sent: Monday, July 30, 2007 3:37 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Is GM Playing Games with the Volt?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> They have been posting video clips online with Q&As and progress
> reports.
>
got links?
do you know where they are supposed to be working on it?
Dan
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mark,
You can use any sensor that will pull the sense line low 4 times for
every revolution. No reason you couldn't simply mount the magnet, and
use a hall effect chip mounted next to it.
Alternatively, why not use a sleeve around the shaft?
Mark Dutko wrote:
Does anyone know if the zilla "cup speed sensor" on the cafe electric
site can be modified. If the pickup sensor is located at the bottom of
the cup where the wires go in (assuming this) I can cut the cup off
and place the sensor close to the magnet. If the sensor is not there
at the bottom and around the cup or something odd like that, the cup
will have to remain. I have a long shaft on the motor and some
clearance issues that prevent the cup from being used. Anyone know
where the sensor resides and how it works specifically so I can start
chopping...
Thanks,
Mark
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
http://www.lionev.com/Home_Page.html
Hello All,
The Piedmont Carolina Electric Vehicle Association had its first and
very successful meeting this past Saturday at Charolotte Energy
Solutions, CharlotteEnergysolutions.com . We learned a bit about LionEV
from one of the partners, Mike Moore of Ampmobile Conversions. I ask
Amp Mobile to send me a bit of a write up and here is their response:
You are welcome to let all know we will be working on the first Accents
this month for a "conversion model", to start major assembly/conversions
shortly thereafter. I personally have not tested the "lionev" email
request page to see what response you will get, too busy. Someone else
is managing that web site to see what sort of response would be there.
Not the way we do business, but that's OK, he saw what he needed to
pursue the project so we can get these vehicles on the road. If anyone
has any intelligent questions, Mike will be more that happy to answer
them, preferably over the phone (perhaps after 9 pm so it will be free
for us!)
If you could also mention the www.seeexpo.com <http://www.seeexpo.com/>,
Southern Energy and Environment Expo in Fletcher, NC (off I-26 near
Asheville, NC - across from the Asheville Regional Airport at the Ag
Center). There is a printable $1.00 off coupon at their web site. We
will be there with the S-10 with lithium polymer test batteries - if all
goes as scheduled the batteries will arrive just before we prepare to
leave for the show.
Paula and Mike
Ampmobile Conversions, LLC
P.O. Box 5016
Lake Wylie, SC 29710
(803) 831-1082
866-831-1082 (toll free - preferably after 9pm - EST)
****
Ampmobiles is a small business. They started in the conversion business
on a part time basis several years ago and are now full time
converters. What you learn, please share it here to keep the repetitive
questions down.
Mike and Paula are teaming with an someone else who is having the
batteries manufactured in China and are importing them into the USA for
these conversions. I do not know anything about these later batteries
or who their partner is. I get the feeling that the waters are being
tested. Mike had a different set of LiIon there in an S-10 pickup with
a comfortable 80 mile range. He drove the vehicle to and from the
meeting; a round trip of 50 miles.
Peter
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks Roy,
I guess maybe I should have said inline trike. The NEDRA rule just says
any 2 or 3 wheeled vehicle. We may have to keep these news records in
our books alone.
Shawn
-----Original Message-----
From: Roy LeMeur <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Sent: Mon, 30 Jul 2007 1:51 am
Subject: Re: AGNS takes NEDRA record # 6
Shawn Lawless wrote:
We are using aluminum 10" wide rims with 8" wide slicks stretched out.
There are two in a tandem setup making AGNS a 3 wheel inline
motorcycle.
Maybe the first ever on a dragstrip, but I doubt it.
I am not clear on what you mean by this Shawn, but -three wheels- on a
-motorcycle- are [AFAIK and IIRC] in violation of NHRA and NEDRA
regulations. You may want to double-check the rule books. We really
want you to have the record but it has to be within the existing rules.
I could be wrong here, I don't have an NHRA rulebook handy at the
moment. NHRA regs supersede any NEDRA regs as far as legal vehicle
layouts are concerned.
Roy LeMeur
NEDRA Northwest Regional Director
www.nedra.com
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rightio, here's the datasheet for the PE1150 cells:
http://www.zeva.com.au/phet/PE1150.pdf
Cycle life test results are on page 7/8. They also just sent me a PDF
listing their new prismatic packs, which look rather promising:
http://zeva.com.au/phet/New_prismatics.pdf
If the power output is good and the price is right, they could do
very well..
-Ian
On 29/07/2007, at 10:52 PM, Ian Hooper wrote:
On 29/07/2007, at 9:50 PM, Jeff Shanab wrote:
Could you point me to the info for these cells. You have made these
claims for a few weeks now and I am very interested in finding the
charts.
It's not up on their website (actually I don't think their website
is particularly up to date!) They sent me a datasheet but it has
"Confidential" written on it, so I'll just email them and verify
they don't mind if I distribute it.
I also thought you said they had other sizes of cylindrical cells, I
can't find any of that info.
Their main production seems to be 18650s, they do have other cells
(http://www.phet.com.tw/Products/Image/Product_Intro.gif) but
apparently the larger ones aren't designed for high power
applications, e.g no good above 1C.
In fact, all I find on their site is information in conflict to
what you
say.
http://www.phet.com.tw/Products/Cell_Spec01.aspx
When I look on their web site I see 1C(1.1A) and 4C(4.4A) and 200
cycle
at .2C (220ma)
This'll probably be their standard cell (GE-1200), which are a bit
cheaper. (Just for the record, they claim 2000 cycles not 200.)
The PE-1150s are the 10C+ ones. As I say, I'll be doing a bunch of
testing over the next few weeks to verify their claims, including
some cycling at 10C discharge. I'll write up the results and post a
link when I'm done!
-Ian
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm holding another '74 Beetle for conversion and when I do it, I want to do
it right.
Currently I'm using a pack of 16, 8 volt batteries rated at 165ah @ 20amps.
Due to Peurket's I'm told that I'll only get "X%" of the labled capacity...
(I deleted the various email long ago)
Well I want to purchase an equivelant pack of Lithium batteries from
Everspring (Thundersky?).
(See: http://www.everspring.net/txt/product-battery-pricing.htm) Assuming
that I get 50%-60% of labled capacity, that's 83-99ah @ 20 amps so if I
choose the 90ah battery, I should have the same speed and range if I buy 40
batteries (128 volts & 90 ah) right?
I have yet to pull more than 300 amps from my lead batteries and these are
rated for 300 amps max (pulsed) so I should be ok in that area.
Assuming I've worked these numbers correctly, the pack will cost me
$7200.00. If I have to step it up to the LFP160AHA, that'll cost me $12k and
I really can't afford that so I'll be plugging lead batteries in again.
Regarding controllers:
What's the story with Raptor model controllers? I rarely hear anyone talk of
them. What's the word on reliability, quality, performance? Ease of install
and operation?
Thanks,
Rich A.
Maryland
_________________________________________________________________
http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_mini_pcmag_0507
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
They are now 4.5Ah sub-C cells,
http://www.cheapbatterypacks.com/main.asp?sid=809322&pgid=loosecells&chem=NIMH
Intellect has 4.2Ah sub-C cells, and recently began producing 9Ah
D-cells that perform like their Sub-C cells, i.e. 10-20C discharge rates.
Jack
Ian Hooper wrote:
In my experience, the only nickel batteries with decent power output
are in Sub-C size, since they're targeted at the industrial market.
Decent brands will usually claim 10C continuous discharge rates. The
downside is they only go up to about 3000mAh.
Other sizes (AA/C/D) are aimed at consumer devices - torches, radios,
that sort of thing - so aren't designed to put out much juice. I
actually played with a handful of those Tenergy AA cells as well and
was fairly disappointed, I could only pull ~2C out of them.
-Ian
On 30/07/2007, at 9:08 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Unfortunately, I have tried that Tenergy D cell, and it is crap.
I bought a bunch of Tenergy AA cells to make a NiMh battery for a
friend's mobility scooter. The 2600mAh cells tested at about 1900.
It will be interesting to see how they hold up.
I emailed the factory and their online store and got no response.
Bill
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi,
I stopwatch checked my acceleration starting in 2nd gear going from 2 fixed
points uphill 10% grade between my drive & the neighbors. I tried 7 degrees
mechanical advance and then set it back to neutral on my Prestolite MTC4001
at 96V E-Porsche 16 ni-cads. I got 33 seconds at 7 degrees and 25 seconds
at neutral and it popped up my 30% grade garage better too with neutral
timing. I checked at speed holding hills and it was at 3600 rpms in 3rd
doing 60mph at 250 amps on the same section of highway. I noticed a bit
drop-off above that speed but overall it ran better with better acceleration
set to neutral. I think the low voltage and rpm's are the factor.
The racers are operating at higher voltage and higher RPM's I believe where
the performance is noticed about 5-6k rpm's
Best Regards,
Mark
_________________________________________________________________
http://newlivehotmail.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Dear NEDRA board,
I was poking around the NHRA rules about and found some conflicting
info.
Under general rules it says "No 3 wheeled vehicles". Under Electrics it
says "OEM 3 wheeled electric vehicles OK".
Under general rules it says only 1 engine. Under electrics it says
"Multiple motors OK".
AGNS is an OEM 3 wheeled, multiple motor vehicle, so is she good to go
or do I have multiple infractions here?
All I can find under NEDRA rules is that the motorcycle/trike class is
ANY 3 wheeled vehicle.
Also some interesting info for the future. General rules state that a
motorcycle or snowmobile that can't back up cannot cross the staging
lights. This led to our disqualification. I'm kicking myself for not
being aware of this rule. It would have been awesome to light them up
in reverse like we have done in the shop. Ihave a feeling I better
print this one out and keep it handy.
Anyway, any thoughts you can throw on the subject would be appreciated
and help us determine how to build future vehicles such as AGNS' big
brother. What would be the rule on 4 wheels in a line? 5 wheels?
Should I put a track around all of them and call it a snowmobile? With
these little motors the possibilities are only limited by the
imagination and the rules at hand.
Shawn
________________________________________________________________________
AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free
from AOL at AOL.com.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi,
Since I have a 400A 2kHz ye-ol Curtis that battery amps are limited (noticed
50A starting). I decided to try an additional choke in series with the
motor but inside the bypass contactor loop. Since T=L/R with the motor
inductance at 150uh and 58 milli-ohms, the time constant to pulse by pulse
current limit is quick thus limiting the duty cycle on start to 2.5ms. By
doubling the inductance or adding a 150uH choke, the start pulse width would
then be limited to 5ms. So I took a uWave oven transformer, angle ground
off the I bar on the E core and removed the coild and magnetic shunt. I
then put 6 turns of #2 welding wire on and MIG welded the I back on the E
for a 72uH choke measured. I then started the car again from a dead stop
and noticed 80A instead of 50 battery amps and it moved quicker into
operating range. I'll get another dead uWave and add another choke for a
total of 150uH. So if you have acceleration problems and you're duty cycle
limiting on start, try a choke or 2.
Best Regards,
Mark
_________________________________________________________________
Need a brain boost? Recharge with a stimulating game. Play now!
http://club.live.com/home.aspx?icid=club_hotmailtextlink1
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You may already be aware that the Raptors are now being built and
supported by Peter Senkowsky in California, 707-350-0156
Richard Acuti wrote:
I'm holding another '74 Beetle for conversion and when I do it, I want
to do it right.
<snip>
Regarding controllers:
What's the story with Raptor model controllers? I rarely hear anyone
talk of them. What's the word on reliability, quality, performance? Ease
of install and operation?
Thanks,
Rich A.
Maryland
_________________________________________________________________
http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_mini_pcmag_0507
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Don Buckshot wrote:
You may already be aware that the Raptors are now being built and
supported by Peter Senkowsky in California, 707-350-0156
do they have a website?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This is a great article about the impending resurrection of the Think:
http://money.cnn.com/magazines/business2/business2_archive/2007/08/01/100138830/index.htm?cnn=yes
Rich
_________________________________________________________________
http://newlivehotmail.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Gulabrao,
The ampere-hour rating of a battery is the measure on how many amperes it
can draw in a specific amount of time. The standard rating which is choose
by battery companies, is how long it takes to discharge a battery to 0%
State OF Charge (SOC) or is the same as 100% Depth Of Discharge (DOD).
For example:
A battery that can be discharge at 5 amperes at 20 hours, this is a 5 Amps x
20 hrs = 100 AH battery.
A reserved minute rating at 20 hours would be 20 hrs x 60 mins = 1200
reserved minutes.
Now as you increase the ampere draw of the battery, the ampere-hour rating
of the battery decreases. If you increase the the ampere load of the battery
to about 20 amperes, it may only deliver 20 amps for 4 hours, which is a
actual capacity of 80 ampere-hours.
You can convert the reserved minutes that is list for a battery. For
example, a battery with a 100 AH rating with a listed Reserved Minutes of
180 minutes for a 25 amp draw would be about:
180 min / 60 = 3 hrs
3hr x 25 amps = 75 amp-hrs
So you see, when the ampere draw of a battery goes up, you have less
ampere-hour available.
The average ampere draw for a EV is about 75 battery amperes. The reserved
minutes listed for a 100 Ah battery is about 60 minutes at 75 amps which is
about one third the time at 25 reserved minutes.
My Trojan T-145's is a 260 AH at a 20 hr rate battery with a 145 reserved
minutes at 75 amps. The actual ampere-hour would be:
145 mins / 60 = 2.41 hrs
2.41 hrs x 75 amps = 181.25 AH
It is best not to discharge a Pb-Acid battery below 50% DOD, so the maximum
ampere-hour draw out the battery would be 90 AH. For a long life I normally
charge at at 120 ampere-hour remaining in the battery or about 25 DOD%.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "gulabrao ingle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Monday, July 30, 2007 12:12 AM
Subject: what does Ah or ampere hour signify
> Hello All
>
> What does Ampere hour signify ?
>
> does a higher ah rating equals more range , what is the ideal Ah
> rating for an EV
>
>
> Thanks
> Gulabrao
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Al,
You can get solid state relays from www.allelectrolnics.com for less than
$10.00 that may work for you. Yes, the ITE solid state relays I have been
running for 22 years every day cost me about $80.00 for a 40 amp at 100 VDC
back in 1985.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Al" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Sunday, July 29, 2007 10:39 PM
Subject: solid state relays
> I am considering using solid state relays in a battery balancer system.
> The
> DC models seem to be very expensive. I wonder why? Don't they consist of
> just a pair of high power mosfets and an optoisolator/driver?
> Could I build my own?
>
> Al
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This article appeared in the Technology News section on news.excite.com
this morning:
http://apnews.excite.com/article/20070730/D8QMURFO0.html
Ralph
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yes I think the online raffle tix is a great idea.
NEDRA already has a paypal account; I use it to pay for my membership. See the
homepage.
I would suggest closing the online ticket sales at midnight the day before the
event so that all of the online tix can be "put in the hat"! for the drawing
which takes place at the event.
If this idea doesn't go..... and someone is going to the event that would agree
to proxy for me, please respond offlist. I'll return the favor at the east
coast events.
Stay Charged!
Hump
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Jim Husted
> Sent: Friday, July 27, 2007 11:13 PM
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: Re: NEDRA Nationals Raffle motor
>
> Hey Chip, Brian, FT
>
> You boys got your ears on? This is (will be) NEDRA's
> motor to do as they see fit.
>
> Couple of issues to address though if it went to a
> don't have to be present to win raffle. One, it lets
> you lazy bums sit on the couch reading posts and not
> come out and have some fun, LMAO 8^P
>
> Another is, it'd have to end before the event so if
> the winner is present he doesn't have to wait and
> occur freight etc. Freight would have to come from
> winner or maybe NEDRA if they just raked in the bucks
> by the wheelbarrows 8^)
>
> And last, how to combine the online and present
> tickets and draw the winner. None of these are to big
> an issue but would need to be addressed and a NEDRA
> body would need to take charge of this.
>
> As stated, this could bring far more dollars in for
> NEDRA if they are into it. If this doesn't pan out
> for this event maybe I'll offer one later that could
> be an online only raffle as a thought.
>
> Hell I wish I had a motor this nice to play with 8^)
> EVery time I build one up some bastard comes along and
> takes it from me 8^(
>
> For those who say they never win anything though, I
> won an awesome Ebike that Brian Hall had brought up to
> raffle at the event last year 8^) Never know if you
> don't go 8^P
>
> Anyway thanks for the ideas and support! In fact no
> one from NEDRA has contacted me for this years
> sponsoring so I'm getting the cart in front of the
> horse being they're slow asses 8^o at least when they
> aren't on the track 8^)
>
> Cya
> Jim Husted
> Hi-Torque Electric
>
>
>
> --- Michael Barkley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> I'd certainly buy a ticket or two..... Not that I've
>> ever, ever won anything in my life, someone make
>> this
>> happen.
>>
>>
>> --- Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>> > I may have missed something in the emails flying
>> by,
>> > but why is this called a raffle motor? Is it only
>> > available to those that attend the event? If not,
>> > here's my suggestion.
>> > Set up a NEDRA paypal account for those that can't
>> > attend, but are willing to contribute $5 or so
>> bucks
>> > towards the raffle. There are hundreds of people
>> on
>> > this list, and I would think many would be willing
>> > to
>> > put up some cash to win one of your motors Jim.
>> > Time
>> > to expand the bidding?
>> > Maybe Chip Gribben or somebody that has internet
>> > skills could make this raffle much bigger and more
>> > exciting to the people on this list! Maybe we
>> could
>> > even have an extra check box like the DMV that
>> > contributes to John's bigger lithium pack?
>> > Thanks,
>> > Rod
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Shawn and NEDRA,
This was my question a month or so ago. Why do we
(electric vehicle builders) need to follow NHRA rules.
Certianly, if we are racing against infernal
combustion powered vehicles we may use their rules but
if we are racing agains other electrics why not create
our own classes. 1,2,3,4,5,6,etc wheels and motors. we
are developing a completely new sport/activity. why
limit ourselves to coping rules that are designed for
a different animal.
kEVs
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Dear NEDRA board,
>
> I was poking around the NHRA rules about and found
> some conflicting
> info.
> Under general rules it says "No 3 wheeled vehicles".
> Under Electrics it
> says "OEM 3 wheeled electric vehicles OK".
> Under general rules it says only 1 engine. Under
> electrics it says
> "Multiple motors OK".
> AGNS is an OEM 3 wheeled, multiple motor vehicle, so
> is she good to go
> or do I have multiple infractions here?
> All I can find under NEDRA rules is that the
> motorcycle/trike class is
> ANY 3 wheeled vehicle.
>
> Also some interesting info for the future. General
> rules state that a
> motorcycle or snowmobile that can't back up cannot
> cross the staging
> lights. This led to our disqualification. I'm
> kicking myself for not
> being aware of this rule. It would have been awesome
> to light them up
> in reverse like we have done in the shop. Ihave a
> feeling I better
> print this one out and keep it handy.
>
> Anyway, any thoughts you can throw on the subject
> would be appreciated
> and help us determine how to build future vehicles
> such as AGNS' big
> brother. What would be the rule on 4 wheels in a
> line? 5 wheels?
> Should I put a track around all of them and call it
> a snowmobile? With
> these little motors the possibilities are only
> limited by the
> imagination and the rules at hand.
>
> Shawn
>
________________________________________________________________________
> AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out
> more about what's free
> from AOL at AOL.com.
>
>
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Great Idea!
But, where is Jim going to come up with the TIME to put an EV on the road.
Maybe EVerybody that gets in on the raffle can show up at Jims place one
weekend for a "build Jim's EV EVent" too!! (Tha
--
Stay Charged!
Hump
I-5, Blossvale NY
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Rod Hower
> Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2007 3:07 PM
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: RE: NEDRA Nationals Raffle motor
>
> --- Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>>Between the different NEDRA EVent's it's close to
>>being a quarterly raffle thing already 8^P As a
> small
>>shop it'd be nice to eventually start building at
>>least a few for sale 8^o
>
> Jim,
> You put a lot of time and effort into these motors and
> are one of the critical players in making all of the
> new EV records!
> Here's another idea, you put together a nice 8 or 9"
> motor and raffle it out on YOUR paypal account! These
> type of raffles seam to raise considerable money for
> charities (raffling a car for example).
> I may be a cheapskate and acquire many many of my
> parts free like you mentioned earlier, but I would be
> willing to risk $20 to win one of your motors.
> Heck, with only 200 people playing your raffle you
> would have enough money to by a Zilla for YOUR own EV
> (and the chances of winning would be pretty good
--
Stay Charged!
Hump
I-5, Blossvale NY
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Mark,
It's great to see you doing some real tests and
sharing. 25 to 33 seconds is more than I expected.
Remember a few weeks ago. I said:
"Chances are you have a 4 pole motor. And your 7
degree figure is actual or mechanical degrees. So you
really have it advanced 14 electrical degrees. If you
advanced it 45 mech degrees (90 elect degrees) you
would have zero torque. I am not sure it is a linear
relationship, but it might give you a feeling. 7
divided by 45 equals 0.155. So your 7 degree shift
might result in 16 percent less torque at current
limit.
Acceleration is proportional to torque. So does 7
degrees equal 16% less torque equal 16% slower accel?
Give it try and let us know."
Your tests don't sound 100 percent scientific, but do
show show a trend. Now, if commutation (sparking) was
acceptable, you've got something.
BTW, I didn't realize you had the MTC-4001. The
factory shift was 4.5 degrees. Did you go 7 degrees
further? Or total?
Jeff
--- Mark Hanson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I stopwatch checked my acceleration starting in 2nd
> gear going from 2 fixed
> points uphill 10% grade between my drive & the
> neighbors. I tried 7 degrees
> mechanical advance and then set it back to neutral
> on my Prestolite MTC4001
> at 96V E-Porsche 16 ni-cads. I got 33 seconds at 7
> degrees and 25 seconds
> at neutral and it popped up my 30% grade garage
> better too with neutral
> timing. I checked at speed holding hills and it was
> at 3600 rpms in 3rd
> doing 60mph at 250 amps on the same section of
> highway. I noticed a bit
> drop-off above that speed but overall it ran better
> with better acceleration
> set to neutral. I think the low voltage and rpm's
> are the factor.
>
> The racers are operating at higher voltage and
> higher RPM's I believe where
> the performance is noticed about 5-6k rpm's
>
> Best Regards,
> Mark
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
> http://newlivehotmail.com
>
>
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--- Begin Message ---
> I have a dial-up connection that normally
> connects as a fast 28.8 speed. This is the best that I can get since I live
> out
> in the country where cable and DSL is not available.
I don't want to be a spammer but,
Those of you caught in this situation may wish to consider....
www.wildblue.com
Stay Charged!
Hump
I-5, Blossvale NY
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
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--- Begin Message ---
Shawn
You cannot post photos on the list that is why we get
all those truncated messages but you can insert a link
to them. please e-mail some to me or just put them up
on one of you sites and refer us to them as I am sure
many would like to see both of your racers OJ and
AGNS. I am also looking for that electric lawn mower
we talked about
kEVs
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Keith,
>
> We are using aluminum 10" wide rims with 8" wide
> slicks stretched out.
> There are two in a tandem setup making AGNS a 3
> wheel inline motorcycle.
> Maybe the first ever on a dragstrip, but I doubt it.
> By playing with
> the motor magnets, tire diameter, and
> series/parallel arrangements of
> the motors we can switch between voltages rather
> easily even without
> actual gearing. I checked the 60 ft times for AGNS
> from Saturday. The
> best was 1.6 secs. Almost quicker than OJ. I have a
> feeling she is
> going to better this when given the added torque of
> 6 more batteries.
>
> AGNS actually made her debut in south Florida. Her
> best run that
> night... 22 secs @ 67 MPH.
> On not really sure how to post photos, but if you
> can do it I will be
> glad to email them to you.
>
> Shawn
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: keith vansickle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Sent: Sun, 29 Jul 2007 11:27 am
> Subject: Re: AGNS takes NEDRA record # 6
>
>
>
> Thanks Shawn I appreciate the answer but I guess I
> didn't ask the right questions, I'll try again.
> what size, type of construction Mags/Steel/Aluminum
> what configuration I think you mentioned duel rear
> wheels in one of your posts?
> Tires slicks or street
> batteries size do you change it when you up the
> voltage(how are you able to use the same vehicle for
> so many v classes?) If you were closer I would come
> to see you race. I went to florida to see OJ but
> you
> didn't have AGNS then. Are you going to the NEDRA
> finals on the 17th?
> keith
> --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> > Douglas wheels
> > Burris tires
> > DEKA AGM batteries
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: keith vansickle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> > Sent: Sun, 29 Jul 2007 10:36 am
> > Subject: Re: AGNS takes NEDRA record # 6
> >
> >
> >
> > --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >
> > Shawn,
> > Sounds great to me.
> > What kind of batteries? What kind of wheels/tires?
> > keith
> >
> > So one more time through the calculator:
> > > Calcualted wheel HP = 20 x 4.8 = 96 wheel hp
> > > Estimated ET = 10.85 secs @ 125 MPH.
> > >
> > >
> > > Now that would be pretty fast on a minibike.
> > >
> > > Shawn
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Roderick Wilde <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> > > Sent: Sun, 29 Jul 2007 1:51 am
> > > Subject: Re: AGNS takes NEDRA record # 6
> > >
> > >
> > > Shawn, much congratulations on your new record!
> I
> > > would just like to
> > > add one comment. In your enthusiasm you wrote:
> > "The
> > > 12.08 was backed up
> > > with two runs of 12.15 @ 103 MPH. Next stop 240
> > > volts !!! We may just
> > > skip the 11's and head straight for the 10's.
> > > Probably not but it sure
> > > sounds good."
> > > Just so the newbees on the list know, in our
> > daily
> > > life a second may
> > > seem like a very short time but on a drag strip
> it
> > > is an eternity. The
> > > difference between 11 second ETs and 10 second
> ETs
> > > is the difference
> > > between being twenty years old and being sixty.
> > That
> > > analogy may give
> > > some of you a clue :-)\
> > >
> > > Roderick
> > >
> > > Roderick Wilde
> > > Vintage Golf Cart Parts
> > > Specializing in Parts for Harley and many other
> > > mature carts
> > > www.vintagegolfcartparts.com
> > > E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > Phone: 360-385-4868
> > > P.O. Box 221
> > > Port Townsend, WA 98368
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message ----- From:
> > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> > > Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2007 4:38 PM
> > > Subject: AGNS takes NEDRA record # 6
> > >
> > > > The weather was touch and go at Quaker City
> > > Raceway in Salem, OH
> > > today but > the sun finally won out as Denis
> > > Stanislaw and AGNS
> > > captured NEDRA record > # 6 in the MT-D class.
> We
> > > set up with 14 DEKA's
> > > (168 volts) and set our > sites on the 12.49
> > record
> > > set back in 2004.
> > > We left the track with a best > run of 12.08 @
> > > 102.91 in the semi final
> > > round of eliminations. We had > dialed a 12.07
> and
> > > beat one of the
> > > regulars at the the track and for a > brief
> moment
> > > we thought Denis had
> > > made it all the way to the finals. >
> Unfortunately
> > > he was disqualified
> > > after the run for going past the stage > lights
> > > during his burnout.
> > > sounds good.The 12.08 was backed up with two >
> > runs
> > > of 12.15 @ 103 MPH.
> > > Next stop 240 volts !!! We may just skip the
> 11's
> > >
> > > and head straight
> > > for the 10's. Probably not but it sure
> > > >
> > > > Shawn Lawless
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________
>
> >
> > >
> > > > AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find
> out
> > > more about what's
> > > free > from AOL at AOL.com.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.476
> /
> > > Virus Database: >
> > > 269.10.22/923 - Release Date: 7/27/2007 6:01 PM
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________
> > > AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out
> > > more about what's free
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> > > =0
> > >
>
=== message truncated ===
____________________________________________________________________________________
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