EV Digest 7096
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Inspection Woes
by MIKE WILLMON <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Another Tweety grin...
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
3) Re: "Electric" Emblem
by MIKE WILLMON <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Bridgestone Ecopia EP-03 Tires - tire width vs RR
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: John Wayland in Wall Street Journal
by MIKE WILLMON <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) RE: Inspection Woes
by "Michael Wendell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Another Tweety grin...
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: [ElectricMotorcycles] Inspection Woes
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Another Tweety grin...
by MIKE WILLMON <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) RE: [ElectricMotorcycles] Inspection Woes
by "Obrien, Haskell W." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: [ElectricMotorcycles] Inspection Woes
by MIKE WILLMON <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) RE: [ElectricMotorcycles] Inspection Woes
by MIKE WILLMON <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Inspection Woes
by "Mark Eidson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: [ElectricMotorcycles] Inspection Woes
by Greg Owen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) RE: Another Tweety grin...
by Tim Humphrey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: John Wayland in Wall Street Journal
by GWMobile <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: [ElectricMotorcycles] Inspection Woes
by "Mark Eidson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Did you pop a burn out for him to show him it has ooomph? Although if you did
that it might not pass IM ;-)
What state (of the Union) are you in?
----- Original Message -----
From: Mark Eidson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Wednesday, August 1, 2007 9:41 am
Subject: Inspection Woes
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> So I take my bike
> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/preview.php?vid=1231
> down to the local ADOT Level II inspection station to get a VIN number
> and title........the first guy looked really concerned and asked
> how many
> cc's. I explained that it was a 13 HP electric motor. He said that
> that was not enough for highway use. I explained that it would go
> over 65 MPH. He said I don't think we can do this and went to get his
> sargent, who came out with a camera and took a bunch of pictures and
> said that they could not inspect it and would send the pictures
> "upstairs" for review. They would get back to me in 2-3 weeks. Since
> this bike was built from scratch and does not have a VIN number what
> do you think my chances are for getting a title? me
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I just got back to work from lunch and the auto store to get some parts
for our ICE car.
On the way to Advance Auto, I am stopped at a red light. A guy on a
motorcycle pulls up next to me and laughs, “what the hell is that?"
“It’s a personal commuter car”, I replied. “It's electric? How fast
does it go”, he snickered. “It’s quick enough”, I said.
The light went green and I squeaked the tire just a little, then I
heard the motorcycle open up. I just kept him in my rear view mirror.
As he would start to gain I would press just a bit more. Tweety never
ran out of more go, but, this was probably the fastest race Tweety has
been in. It took almost 350 amps to keep him behind me. He let off
early and exited at the next light with no further comments.
I have no idea what kind of motorcycle it was. It was a blue one. I
suspect something in the 500cc range.
At the next light, a bright blue PT Cruiser pulled up. A young lady
stuck her hand out the window in a thumb’s up gesture and said, “Really
cool ride!”
Made my day! :)
Ken
________________________________________________________________________
AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I got mine from Mike Chancey:
http://www.austinev.org/evtradinpost/signs.html
----- Original Message -----
From: Bruce Williford <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Wednesday, August 1, 2007 10:24 am
Subject: "Electric" Emblem
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Are the "Electric" stick-on emblems still available anywhere? My
> Ghia
> is at the body shop for its paint job and I was hoping to paste on
> the
> emblem for that final touch.
>
> Thanks, Bruce
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Dewey,
There is a vehicle weight scale that is about 5 blocks from me. I can do
multiple weights on this scale. I first drove on the front wheels, then the
whole weight of the vehicle, the rear axles, the right side and left side.
>From that data I was able to calculated the weight per wheel which was real
close to the half the weight of the axle weight.
To calculated the PSI pressure in the tires, I use 65 psi at the 2360 lbs
for the rear tires. The fronts which are at 1090 lbs, I can proportion that
weight as (65 x 1090)/ 2360 = 30 lbs.
Then I check the deflection factor by measuring the total height of tire
unloaded to loaded. I finally had to increase the front tires to 40 psi,
which works out good for me.
Now there is a thrust factor where every time you brake the vehicle, there
is weight that is transfer from the rear to front which adds about 10 psi to
the front tires.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2007 12:32 PM
Subject: RE: Bridgestone Ecopia EP-03 Tires - tire width vs RR
> Roland,
>
> How did you measure your corner weight? Did you rent/buy the
> scales capable or did you do the Archemedes bathroom scale method?
>
>
> Jody
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Roland Wiench
> Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2007 13:58
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: Re: Bridgestone Ecopia EP-03 Tires - tire width vs RR
>
> Ok, now that you have your new tires, what PSI air pressure do you use?
> Do you have it air up by the tire installer which was normally set at 35
> lbs, because he says, I air all the tires to this pressure.
>
> Could it be 40, 45, 50, 60 or even 65 PSI?
>
> The first thing you do before you buy any tire, is to weigh the load at
> each wheel. For example, my rear load at each wheel is 2340 lbs and my
> front load at each wheel is 1090 lbs. So I need to find a tire at the
> maximum load rating at least 2340 lbs and then must adjust the psi when
> using the this tire on the front with only a load of 1090 lbs.
>
> The new tires with a very low RR will have a very stiff thread face and
> a very soft side wall that deflects, but does not deflect the tire face
> as a stiff high ply side wall on the tire.
>
> To adjust the PSI per the load rating of the tire, which will give the
> minimum tire deflection of the thread face of the tire. Jack up the
> vehicle so the tire is off grade. Then air up the tire to the maximum
> load rating @ PSI that is listed on the side of the tire.
>
> Now measure the height of the sidewall from the face of the tire to the
> edge of the wheel for a reference point. Lets say this is 4-inches. Ink
> the bottom of the tire and now lower it on to a white poster paper which
> will print the foot print contact patch.
>
> Measure the height again from the floor to the edge of the wheel, and
> lets say its 3.5 inches on a stiff 4 or 6 ply side wall. This is a 0.50
> inch deflection rate which is too much deflection. It is over 10
> percent of the height of the side wall. You either have the wrong tires
> at the load rating or not enough PSI. It is best to keep the deflection
> between 5 to 7 percent of the height of the side wall.
>
> Truckers with there 20 inch tires, try to keep the deflection to not
> more than 5 percent of the side wall height.
>
> The RR tires that have a very soft 2 ply side walls but has a very stiff
> face, the side walls in these tires absorb the deflection and does not
> transmit this deflection to the tread as much. The side wall deflection
> measurements do not work on these tires because of this design.
>
> This is will the ink foot print comes in. As stated on this list of who
> I cannot keep track of what who said what, is to divide the wheel load
> by the PSI. Then I think you have to take percentage of the
> circumference of the
> tire to the length of the contact patch to get a deflection percentage.
> I
> have not done this test on my new tires which have a very stiff 6 ply
> face and a soft 2 ply side wall which does the deflection.
>
> Roland
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2007 10:52 AM
> Subject: RE: Bridgestone Ecopia EP-03 Tires - tire width vs RR
>
>
> > Awesome! Good information on tires and rolling resistance! I was
> unable
> > to find information on specific tires in the first link. The second
> > link gave exact brands of tires but didn't have any tested in the 13"
> > range. I can use a 185/70R14 tire but I would have to change rims. I
> > also wish they would have tested the Khumo tires. I am looking at the
> > Khumo SR21 tires since they have them in the size I need (155/80R13)
> and
> > they have a 640AA treadwear rating. Plus the fact that they are $34 a
> > piece is really hard to beat.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On
> > Behalf Of Phil Marino
> > Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2007 12:20
> > To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> > Subject: RE: Bridgestone Ecopia EP-03 Tires - tire width vs RR
> >
> > Jody -
> >
> > I still think that the single most important thing is to make sure you
> > have tires that have documented low values of rolling resistance.
> >
> > You can find RR values for a lot of different tires here:
> >
> > www.trb.org/publications/sr/sr286.pdf
> >
> > Also, take a look at the greenseal tire rolling resistance report
> here:
> >
> >
> http://www.greenseal.org/resources/reports/CGR_tire_rollingresistance.pd
> > f
> >
> >
> > Probably the next most important thing is the inflation pressure. If
> > you have taken care of these first two, it might be worth it to get a
> > wider tire.
> >
> > Phil
> >
> >
> > >From: "Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > >Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> > >To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> > >Subject: RE: Bridgestone Ecopia EP-03 Tires - tire width vs RR
> > >Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 08:58:08 -0400
> > >
> > >Phil,
> > >
> > >Good explanation! It makes me think that I might want to go from
> > >155/80R13 tires on my Geo to 185/70R13 tires. If wider tires at the
> > >same PSI offer lower rolling resistance I might actually gain a mpg
> out
> >
> > >of em. I will have to research the exact size required to get the
> same
> >
> > >revs per mile though. Luckily tirerack.com has a great specs page
> for
> > >tires that tells all the particulars of different brands of tires.
> > >
> > >Jody
> > >
> > >-----Original Message-----
> > >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On
> >
> > >Behalf Of Phil Marino
> > >Sent: Monday, July 30, 2007 23:09
> > >To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> > >Subject: RE: Bridgestone Ecopia EP-03 Tires - tire width vs RR
> > >
> > >Hi, Brian
> > > >
> > >
> > >Phil Marino here. I'll put my comments within your post:
> > >
> > >
> > > >From: Brian Jackson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > >Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> > > >To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> > > >CC: Phil Marino <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > >Subject: RE: Bridgestone Ecopia EP-03 Tires - tire width vs RR
> > > >Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2007 0:42:29 -0700
> > > >
> > > >Well, if decreasing the width of the tire causes it to deflect
> more,
> > > >then yes, the contact patch may >remain constant. Then again, it
> > > >could
> > >decrease.
> > > >It could increase as well. Whether the contact patch >are
> decreases,
> > > >increases, or stays the same depends on tire pressure, vehicle
> weight
> >
> > > >(or mass for all of >you metric wing nuts out there :-D ), side
> wall
> > >stiffness.
> > > >Oh heck, while we're at it, lets throw in tire >air temperature. I
> > > >don't think that a tire's contact patch is as directly proportional
> > > >to tire pressure and >vehicle weight as you claim. I could be wrong
> > >though.
> > >
> > >The contact patch size does not directly affect rolling resistance.
> > >I've read that it does several times on this list, but I haven't yet
> > >heard a logical explanation for that link.
> > >
> > >But, to answer the contact patch vs tire width question anyway, here
> is
> >
> > >a quote from a technical paper by Boeing Aircraft ( search for
> Boeing,
> > >and "calculating tire area")
> > >
> > >" The tire contact area for any aircraft tire is calculated by
> dividing
> >
> > >the single wheel load by the tire inflation pressure. If the load is
> > >expressed in pounds, and the tire pressure in pounds per square inch,
> > >then the area is in inches squared. "
> > >
> > >They are referring to aircraft tires. But, the same principle
> applies
> > >to car tires. To demonstrate this for yourself, see how much load a
> > >mounted tire with no air pressure will support. That will show how
> > >little the sidewall stiffness contributes to supporting the load on
> the
> >
> > >tire. Almost all of the load is supported by the tire pressure.
> > >
> > > >
> > > >However, if I am wrong, why do road riders (bicyclists) use such
> > > >narrow
> > >
> > > >tires? Why do so many small >EVs and cars like GM's Sun Racer use
> > > >such narrow tires? Is it only for the sake of keeping rotating
> > >weight down?
> > >
> > > >I don't think that's the only reason.
> > >
> > >
> > >Good questions. I answered them a couple of posts ago, but here is a
> > >better explanation. This is from the Schwalbe tire company -
> > >http://www.schwalbetires.com/tech_info/rolling_resistance
> > >
> > >First, here is their explanation of why wider tires have lower
> rolling
> > >resistance ( at the same pressure):
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >"Which factors affect rolling resistance?
> > >
> > >Tire pressure, tire diameter, tire construction, tire tread and other
> > >factors all have an effect on rolling resistance.
> > >
> > >The higher the tire pressure, the less is tire deformation and thus
> the
> >
> > >rolling resistance.
> > >
> > >Small diameter tires have a higher rolling resistance at the same
> tire
> > >pressure, because tire deformation is proportionally more important,
> in
> >
> > >other words the tire is "less round".
> > >
> > >Wider tires roll better than narrow ones. This assertion generally
> > >generates skepticism, nevertheless at the same tire pressure a narrow
> > >tire deflects more and so deforms more."
> > >
> > >
> > >And, in more detail: ( still from Schwalbe):
> > >
> > >"Why do wide tires roll better than narrow ones?
> > >
> > >The answer to this question lies in tire deflection. Each tire is
> > >flattened a little under load. This creates a flat contact area.
> > >
> > >At the same tire pressure, a wide and a narrow tire have the same
> > >contact area. A wide tire is flattened over its width whereas a
> narrow
> > >tire has a slimmer but longer contact area.
> > >
> > >The flattened area can be considered as a counterweight to tire
> > >rotation.
> > >Because of the longer flattened area of the narrow tire, the wheel
> > >loses
> > >
> > >more of its "roundness" and produces more deformation during
> rotation.
> > >However, in the wide tire, the radial length of the flattened area is
> > >shorter, making the tire "rounder" and so it rolls better."
> > >
> > >And here is why bicycle racers use narrow tires ( again, from
> Schwalbe)
> > >
> > >"Why do Pros ride narrow tires if wide tires roll better?
> > >
> > >Wide tires only roll better at the same inflation pressure, but
> narrow
> > >tires can be inflated to higher pressures than wide tires. However,
> > >they then obviously give a less comfortable ride.
> > >
> > >In addition to this, narrow tires have an advantage over wide ones at
> > >higher speeds, as they provide less air resistance.
> > >
> > >Above all, a bicycle with narrow tires is much easier to accelerate
> > >because the rotating mass of the wheels is lower and the bicycle is
> > >much more agile."
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > >Oh here's another example, though one that people are probably not
> as
> >
> > > >familiar with. Why did my street luge go so much faster with 4
> roller
> > >blade
> > > >wheels on it than it did with 4 skate board wheels on it? It also
> had
> > >less
> > > >traction with the roller blade wheels. Man, that was a scary ride!
> :)
> >
> > > >Roller blade and skate board wheels don't really flex at all, but
> > > >man,
> > >what
> > > >a difference in top speed!
> > > >
> > > >Again, maybe I'm wrong, but I have been successfully operating with
> > > >the
> > >
> > > >understanding that a narrower tire will give a smaller contact
> patch
> > >and
> > > >therefore decrease rolling resistance for so long that I have a
> hard
> > >time
> > > >believing that contact patch is dependent only on tire pressure and
> > >vehicle
> > > >mass.
> > >
> > >Well, Schwabe said that the fact that wide tires have lower RR
> > >generates skepticism, so you're certainly not alone.
> > >
> > >Phil
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > >Brian
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >_________________________________________________________________
> >
> >http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_mig
> > >r
> > >ation_HM_mini_pcmag_0507
> > >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> >
> http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migr
> > ation_HM_mini_pcmag_0507
> >
> >
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Nice article John. This put it square in front of every person in a big
business that could potentially shift the paradigm.
But now Jim is going to have every forklift operator knocking at his door
wanting a souped up fork lift :-)
Don't worry about the crispy motor in the photos. Nobody can really tell thats
its guts are all wrinkled up inside, its got that nice eye distracting purple
paint job ;-) At least they didn't describe the motor zorching in as much
detail as they did with John's battery zorching. That was some pretty graphic
detail with fire guys in HazMat suits needed to secure the power, doh.
Like with the AP article I agree with John, the video commentary was much
better.
Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Wednesday, August 1, 2007 6:48 am
Subject: Re: John Wayland in Wall Street Journal
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Hey all
>
> I'll deffinantly have to stop and grab a copy so I can
> frame it for the office wall 8^) Although I'm not
> sure whether I should high-light "electric forklift
> motor" or not LMAO. Electric forklift motor "my ass"
> 8^( I want to see the forklift that sports a 34"
> Dutchman racing shaft, LMAO 8^)
>
> Guess I better start showing up at the EVents more 8^P
>
> At least the motor did make the video! (EVen if it was
> all burnt and crispy looking)(and John has a look that
> says, I told the loser to do it right last time) 8^o
>
> I also thought Wayland was like 55 or 60 years old 8^P
> He's always been a father figuer to me anyway, LMAO!
>
> It may be the Wall Street Journal but this puppy is
> only getting a small corner section in the office 8^o
>
> All jesting aside congrats for some awesome EV press,
> and I just can't wait to start fielding calls and
> emails from folks wanting to know where they too can
> find Siamese forklift motors 8^)
>
> Had fun 8^)
>
> Jim Husted
> Hi-Torque Electric
>
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________________________________Shape
> Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network Research Panel today!
> http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> So I take my bike
> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/preview.php?vid=1231
> down to the local ADOT Level II inspection station to get a VIN
> number and title...
i was wondering about this bike the first time i saw it a few weeks ago. i'm
concerned about the fact that the front wheel has (or seems to have) zero
caster. unless the bike has some form of active steering damper or
stabilization, it could be quite dangerous. without any caster angle there's
no self-centering force on the front wheel.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caster_angle
seems very dangerous. i could definitely be wrong, and if you think so,
please let me know what i might have overlooked.
by the way, the construction and fabrication look completely top-notch. it's
a beatuful machine, i just have that one concern about stability.
m.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> At the next light, a bright blue PT Cruiser pulled
> up. A young lady
> stuck her hand out the window in a thumbâs up
> gesture and said, âReally
> cool ride!â
>
> Made my day! :)
Hey Ken
She probably just watched you blow away the MC 8^)
What's funny is I can picture you getting pulled over
by a cop asking you if you're the one who just layed
rubber back at the light, and you replying "What! in
this thing! Please!" LMAO
Cya
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who knows.
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I understand that it is a build from scratch, but the principle is still the
same, although at times you have to be quick on your feet. I'm not exactly
saying make stuff up, I am saying speak in the terms they are used to. So
instead of saying it is a 13 hp electirc, when they ask for CCs give them
CCs. Pick a number you feel is in the right ballpark. It was easier for
me, because at one time my bike was a 250cc motorcycle, but I would be
willing to bet if you would have told them 400cc they would have put that in
the box on their form and moved to the next question.
I had to have my bike inspected by the State Patrol in Washington because it
came with no title. I waited until after it was converted, which could have
been a mistake on my part, but turned out fine. The inspection was simply
to verify that it wasn't stolen, but when the inspector looked on the motor
for a vin, he asked me if I had replaced the motor. I just said yes, which
is what he wanted to hear. I did not volunteer any extra details about it
being electric, and he moved on to the next box on his form.
Also don't forget one of the best tricks. If you run into problems at one
office, head to a different one. If I were you I would not be waiting
around to hear back from upstairs, I would be driving around to different
offices until you get it registered. I would start over fresh at the next
office and act like you expect them to register it for you just like any
other motorcycle, although talking to some of the custom chasis guys first
that have experience doing this might be useful.
damon
From: "Mark Eidson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: ElectricMotorcycles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ElectricMotorcycles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [ElectricMotorcycles] Inspection Woes
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 11:45:54 -0700
This was built from scratch........no original bike.......me
On 8/1/07, john fisher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> all good advice for dealing with the bureaucracy.
> I think most customs simply retain the original bikes registration;
thats what I would do.
> Each state is different, though.
> JF
>
> damon henry wrote:
> > I would say you have an excellent chance but you will likely need lots
> > of persistence. I find that when dealing with paperwork issues it is
> > easiest to give the answers they want to hear. For instance, when
asked
> > how many CCs say 400, if they question that answer say that your
> > electric motor is equivalent to a 400cc motorcycle engine.
> >
> > When I took the skills test for my motorcycle license on my EM they
> > asked me the cc question which determines parameters for some of the
> > different obstacles. I answered 250cc, since that is what the bike
> > started out as, and they went straight to the next step without
> > question. I only offered one piece of voluntary information. Since
you
> > get a heavy deduction for stalling, I pointed out that my motorcycle
was
> > incapable of stalling. I mentioned that if you don't hear any sound
> > from the motor it is because you are not supposed to.
> >
> > damon
> >
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
Need a brain boost? Recharge with a stimulating game. Play now!
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
"But honest officer, this thing is only battery powered, I couldn't possibly
have layed those 100 ft twin black stripes. It must have been that Red 5.0
liter Mustang that was next to me at the light. :-O"
Do you think that would work for a Pinto? I mean no one in their right mind
would ever suspect.....a Pinto?
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Wednesday, August 1, 2007 11:18 am
Subject: Re: Another Tweety grin...
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> > At the next light, a bright blue PT Cruiser pulled
> > up. A young lady
> > stuck her hand out the window in a thumbâs up
> > gesture and said, âReally
> > cool ride!â
> >
> > Made my day! :)
>
> Hey Ken
>
> She probably just watched you blow away the MC 8^)
>
> What's funny is I can picture you getting pulled over
> by a cop asking you if you're the one who just layed
> rubber back at the light, and you replying "What! in
> this thing! Please!" LMAO
>
> Cya
> Jim Husted
> Hi-Torque Electric
>
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________________________________
> Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from
> someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.
> http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545433
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You might prefer to say something like 'It's electric, but It's equivalent to a
xx cc gas motor.'
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of damon henry
Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2007 2:17 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: [ElectricMotorcycles] Inspection Woes
I understand that it is a build from scratch, but the principle is still the
same, although at times you have to be quick on your feet. I'm not exactly
saying make stuff up, I am saying speak in the terms they are used to. So
instead of saying it is a 13 hp electirc, when they ask for CCs give them
CCs. Pick a number you feel is in the right ballpark. It was easier for
me, because at one time my bike was a 250cc motorcycle, but I would be
willing to bet if you would have told them 400cc they would have put that in
the box on their form and moved to the next question.
I had to have my bike inspected by the State Patrol in Washington because it
came with no title. I waited until after it was converted, which could have
been a mistake on my part, but turned out fine. The inspection was simply
to verify that it wasn't stolen, but when the inspector looked on the motor
for a vin, he asked me if I had replaced the motor. I just said yes, which
is what he wanted to hear. I did not volunteer any extra details about it
being electric, and he moved on to the next box on his form.
Also don't forget one of the best tricks. If you run into problems at one
office, head to a different one. If I were you I would not be waiting
around to hear back from upstairs, I would be driving around to different
offices until you get it registered. I would start over fresh at the next
office and act like you expect them to register it for you just like any
other motorcycle, although talking to some of the custom chasis guys first
that have experience doing this might be useful.
damon
>From: "Mark Eidson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: ElectricMotorcycles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: ElectricMotorcycles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: Re: [ElectricMotorcycles] Inspection Woes
>Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 11:45:54 -0700
>
>This was built from scratch........no original bike.......me
>
>On 8/1/07, john fisher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > all good advice for dealing with the bureaucracy.
> > I think most customs simply retain the original bikes registration;
>thats what I would do.
> > Each state is different, though.
> > JF
> >
> > damon henry wrote:
> > > I would say you have an excellent chance but you will likely need lots
> > > of persistence. I find that when dealing with paperwork issues it is
> > > easiest to give the answers they want to hear. For instance, when
>asked
> > > how many CCs say 400, if they question that answer say that your
> > > electric motor is equivalent to a 400cc motorcycle engine.
> > >
> > > When I took the skills test for my motorcycle license on my EM they
> > > asked me the cc question which determines parameters for some of the
> > > different obstacles. I answered 250cc, since that is what the bike
> > > started out as, and they went straight to the next step without
> > > question. I only offered one piece of voluntary information. Since
>you
> > > get a heavy deduction for stalling, I pointed out that my motorcycle
>was
> > > incapable of stalling. I mentioned that if you don't hear any sound
> > > from the motor it is because you are not supposed to.
> > >
> > > damon
> > >
> >
> >
>
_________________________________________________________________
Need a brain boost? Recharge with a stimulating game. Play now!
http://club.live.com/home.aspx?icid=club_hotmailtextlink1
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I don't know if Arizona (I found that out from your EVAlbum page ;-) has an IM
program. My IM coordinator who is the point man in our state for keeping the
air clean from automobiles was more than happy to walk me through the process.
Because they still didn't have a permanent "Electric" exemption sticker last
month when I went to renew., he just re-registered himself with a regular
sticker that says "Passed" and didn't even charge me any of the typical extra
fees when you go to register. He was proud of the Air Quality program he has
but was real keen to listen when I talk to him about EV's. I could see gears
turning inside his head :-)
Mike,
Anchorage, Ak.
----- Original Message -----
From: damon henry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Wednesday, August 1, 2007 11:20 am
Subject: Re: [ElectricMotorcycles] Inspection Woes
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> I understand that it is a build from scratch, but the principle is
> still the
> same, although at times you have to be quick on your feet. I'm not
> exactly
> saying make stuff up, I am saying speak in the terms they are used
> to. So
> instead of saying it is a 13 hp electirc, when they ask for CCs
> give them
> CCs. Pick a number you feel is in the right ballpark. It was
> easier for
> me, because at one time my bike was a 250cc motorcycle, but I would
> be
> willing to bet if you would have told them 400cc they would have
> put that in
> the box on their form and moved to the next question.
>
> I had to have my bike inspected by the State Patrol in Washington
> because it
> came with no title. I waited until after it was converted, which
> could have
> been a mistake on my part, but turned out fine. The inspection was
> simply
> to verify that it wasn't stolen, but when the inspector looked on
> the motor
> for a vin, he asked me if I had replaced the motor. I just said
> yes, which
> is what he wanted to hear. I did not volunteer any extra details
> about it
> being electric, and he moved on to the next box on his form.
>
> Also don't forget one of the best tricks. If you run into problems
> at one
> office, head to a different one. If I were you I would not be
> waiting
> around to hear back from upstairs, I would be driving around to
> different
> offices until you get it registered. I would start over fresh at
> the next
> office and act like you expect them to register it for you just
> like any
> other motorcycle, although talking to some of the custom chasis
> guys first
> that have experience doing this might be useful.
>
> damon
>
>
> >From: "Mark Eidson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Reply-To: ElectricMotorcycles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >To: ElectricMotorcycles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Subject: Re: [ElectricMotorcycles] Inspection Woes
> >Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 11:45:54 -0700
> >
> >This was built from scratch........no original bike.......me
> >
> >On 8/1/07, john fisher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > all good advice for dealing with the bureaucracy.
> > > I think most customs simply retain the original bikes
> registration;
> >thats what I would do.
> > > Each state is different, though.
> > > JF
> > >
> > > damon henry wrote:
> > > > I would say you have an excellent chance but you will likely
> need lots
> > > > of persistence. I find that when dealing with paperwork
> issues it is
> > > > easiest to give the answers they want to hear. For instance,
> when
> >asked
> > > > how many CCs say 400, if they question that answer say that your
> > > > electric motor is equivalent to a 400cc motorcycle engine.
> > > >
> > > > When I took the skills test for my motorcycle license on my
> EM they
> > > > asked me the cc question which determines parameters for some
> of the
> > > > different obstacles. I answered 250cc, since that is what
> the bike
> > > > started out as, and they went straight to the next step without
> > > > question. I only offered one piece of voluntary information.
> Since
> >you
> > > > get a heavy deduction for stalling, I pointed out that my
> motorcycle
> >was
> > > > incapable of stalling. I mentioned that if you don't hear
> any sound
> > > > from the motor it is because you are not supposed to.
> > > >
> > > > damon
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Need a brain boost? Recharge with a stimulating game. Play now!
> http://club.live.com/home.aspx?icid=club_hotmailtextlink1
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Maybe Jim Husted would measure the displacement of a motor armature the size of
your's and you could validly say that the little moving part that goes around
inside displaces xxx CC's ;-)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Obrien, Haskell W." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Wednesday, August 1, 2007 11:28 am
Subject: RE: [ElectricMotorcycles] Inspection Woes
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> You might prefer to say something like 'It's electric, but It's
> equivalent to a xx cc gas motor.'
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Never got it off the trailer........I'm in AZ.
On 8/1/07, MIKE WILLMON <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Did you pop a burn out for him to show him it has ooomph? Although if you
> did that it might not pass IM ;-)
>
> What state (of the Union) are you in?
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Mark Eidson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: Wednesday, August 1, 2007 9:41 am
> Subject: Inspection Woes
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
>
> > So I take my bike
> > http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/preview.php?vid=1231
> > down to the local ADOT Level II inspection station to get a VIN number
> > and title........the first guy looked really concerned and asked
> > how many
> > cc's. I explained that it was a 13 HP electric motor. He said that
> > that was not enough for highway use. I explained that it would go
> > over 65 MPH. He said I don't think we can do this and went to get his
> > sargent, who came out with a camera and took a bunch of pictures and
> > said that they could not inspect it and would send the pictures
> > "upstairs" for review. They would get back to me in 2-3 weeks. Since
> > this bike was built from scratch and does not have a VIN number what
> > do you think my chances are for getting a title? me
> >
> >
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
MIKE WILLMON wrote:
> I don't know if Arizona (I found that out from your EVAlbum page ;-)
> has an IM program. My IM coordinator who is the point man in our
> state for keeping the air clean from automobiles was more than happy
> to walk me through the process.
Two quick questions:
What does IM stand for in this context?
Has anyone on-list registered a homebuilt/conversion in Massachusetts
and would they be willing to contact me off-list about what it involved?
I'm trying to figure out the hoops before I start building.
Thx!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
That might work. But, keep in mind there a probably quite a few cops on the
force today that have never seen and don't know what the hell a Pinto is; or
what a slow piece of crap it was before you modified it.
--
Stay Charged!
Hump
I-5, Blossvale NY
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of MIKE WILLMON
> Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2007 3:23 PM
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: Re: Another Tweety grin...
>
> "But honest officer, this thing is only battery powered, I couldn't
> possibly have layed those 100 ft twin black stripes. It must have been
> that Red 5.0 liter Mustang that was next to me at the light. :-O"
>
> Do you think that would work for a Pinto? I mean no one in their right
> mind would ever suspect.....a Pinto?
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: Wednesday, August 1, 2007 11:18 am
> Subject: Re: Another Tweety grin...
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
>
>> --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>>
>> > At the next light, a bright blue PT Cruiser pulled
>> > up. A young lady
>> > stuck her hand out the window in a thumb’s up
>> > gesture and said, “Really
>> > cool ride!â€
>> >
>> > Made my day! :)
>>
>> Hey Ken
>>
>> She probably just watched you blow away the MC 8^)
>>
>> What's funny is I can picture you getting pulled over
>> by a cop asking you if you're the one who just layed
>> rubber back at the light, and you replying "What! in
>> this thing! Please!" LMAO
>>
>> Cya
>> Jim Husted
>> Hi-Torque Electric
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
> ____________________________________________________________________________________
>> Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from
>> someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.
>> http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545433
>>
>>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Great article!
I didn't that was why they called you plasma boy.
Good story!
On Wed, 1 Aug 2007 9:48 am, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In a message dated 8/1/2007 6:23:08 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
xxxxxx
They even drew a "stipled effect" portrait of John. That makes it an
official WJ article. Great mug shot.
_http://online.wsj.com/article/SB118593442187584293.html_
(http://online.wsj.com/article/SB118593442187584293.html)
--------
Plasma Boy, great story in the Wall Street Journal, you're 47? you're
catching up to me.
Keep kicking ice butt.
Jim...............still second quickest lead acid EV in the world.
************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new
AOL at
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily images about hurricanes, globalwarming
and the melting poles.
www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake images.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
What is IM? me
On 8/1/07, MIKE WILLMON <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I don't know if Arizona (I found that out from your EVAlbum page ;-) has an
> IM program. My IM coordinator who is the point man in our state for keeping
> the air clean from automobiles was more than happy to walk me through the
> process. Because they still didn't have a permanent "Electric" exemption
> sticker last month when I went to renew., he just re-registered himself with
> a regular sticker that says "Passed" and didn't even charge me any of the
> typical extra fees when you go to register. He was proud of the Air Quality
> program he has but was real keen to listen when I talk to him about EV's. I
> could see gears turning inside his head :-)
>
> Mike,
> Anchorage, Ak.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: damon henry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: Wednesday, August 1, 2007 11:20 am
> Subject: Re: [ElectricMotorcycles] Inspection Woes
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
>
> > I understand that it is a build from scratch, but the principle is
> > still the
> > same, although at times you have to be quick on your feet. I'm not
> > exactly
> > saying make stuff up, I am saying speak in the terms they are used
> > to. So
> > instead of saying it is a 13 hp electirc, when they ask for CCs
> > give them
> > CCs. Pick a number you feel is in the right ballpark. It was
> > easier for
> > me, because at one time my bike was a 250cc motorcycle, but I would
> > be
> > willing to bet if you would have told them 400cc they would have
> > put that in
> > the box on their form and moved to the next question.
> >
> > I had to have my bike inspected by the State Patrol in Washington
> > because it
> > came with no title. I waited until after it was converted, which
> > could have
> > been a mistake on my part, but turned out fine. The inspection was
> > simply
> > to verify that it wasn't stolen, but when the inspector looked on
> > the motor
> > for a vin, he asked me if I had replaced the motor. I just said
> > yes, which
> > is what he wanted to hear. I did not volunteer any extra details
> > about it
> > being electric, and he moved on to the next box on his form.
> >
> > Also don't forget one of the best tricks. If you run into problems
> > at one
> > office, head to a different one. If I were you I would not be
> > waiting
> > around to hear back from upstairs, I would be driving around to
> > different
> > offices until you get it registered. I would start over fresh at
> > the next
> > office and act like you expect them to register it for you just
> > like any
> > other motorcycle, although talking to some of the custom chasis
> > guys first
> > that have experience doing this might be useful.
> >
> > damon
> >
> >
> > >From: "Mark Eidson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > >Reply-To: ElectricMotorcycles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > >To: ElectricMotorcycles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > >Subject: Re: [ElectricMotorcycles] Inspection Woes
> > >Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 11:45:54 -0700
> > >
> > >This was built from scratch........no original bike.......me
> > >
> > >On 8/1/07, john fisher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > all good advice for dealing with the bureaucracy.
> > > > I think most customs simply retain the original bikes
> > registration;
> > >thats what I would do.
> > > > Each state is different, though.
> > > > JF
> > > >
> > > > damon henry wrote:
> > > > > I would say you have an excellent chance but you will likely
> > need lots
> > > > > of persistence. I find that when dealing with paperwork
> > issues it is
> > > > > easiest to give the answers they want to hear. For instance,
> > when
> > >asked
> > > > > how many CCs say 400, if they question that answer say that your
> > > > > electric motor is equivalent to a 400cc motorcycle engine.
> > > > >
> > > > > When I took the skills test for my motorcycle license on my
> > EM they
> > > > > asked me the cc question which determines parameters for some
> > of the
> > > > > different obstacles. I answered 250cc, since that is what
> > the bike
> > > > > started out as, and they went straight to the next step without
> > > > > question. I only offered one piece of voluntary information.
> > Since
> > >you
> > > > > get a heavy deduction for stalling, I pointed out that my
> > motorcycle
> > >was
> > > > > incapable of stalling. I mentioned that if you don't hear
> > any sound
> > > > > from the motor it is because you are not supposed to.
> > > > >
> > > > > damon
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Need a brain boost? Recharge with a stimulating game. Play now!
> > http://club.live.com/home.aspx?icid=club_hotmailtextlink1
> >
> >
>
>
--- End Message ---
