The Bartender speaketh: Russell and Bruno, IMO all (cosmological?) start-up theories (incl. the Friedmann one, my contemporaneous one) include a vision of TODAY's universe- physics, gravity, sizes, math etc. - absolutely rubbish down from the zillion-times values that could have been in the 'pre-explosion'(?) morsel we think it had to start from. Furthermore the theories are mostly based on linear processing - no justification for such. (R: the Hubble constant is one of the actual deductions of OUR present universe-view) (B: I heard about a 'religious dogmatic' opinion about a ~6000 y.o. world. What religion dogmates (!) 14 b years? not even my 'un-religion'.)
I just love the inflation-theory aiming to seting the math-mistakes straight. * My 'narrative' (I don't call it a theory) ends the universes (all of them?!) when the complexities (= violations in the totally-symmetrical Plenitude) re-distribute into said totl symmetry (heat death) and smoothen BACK into the Plenitude they popped out from inevitably. I do not speculate about that darn Plenitude - so far beyond our capabilities and resources to learn anything about it. It is (supposed to be) sort of an Everything in infinite equilibrium/symmetry in our human logic. The rest is our partial knowledge we applied to 'explain' (mostly math.ly) our poorly understood observational fragments we gathered over the millennia of enlightenment, - always at the actual level of understanding. John M On Mon, Nov 12, 2012 at 11:13 AM, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be> wrote: > > On 11 Nov 2012, at 23:35, Russell Standish wrote: > > Rubbish, it not a measurement of the age of the universe, but rather >> of the Hubble constant. It only corresponds to the age of the universe >> in the context of a specific theory, usually the Friedmann universe, >> which is one of the simplests solutions to Einstein's theory of >> general relativity. >> >> Journalists tend to oversimplify things, and get it so wrong. >> > > You are quite right. Note that some physicists do seem to believe, in the > religious dogmatic way, that the Big Bang is the ultimate start. Others > believe that it might just be a local big explosion, or that the big bang > result from the collision of branes (in string theory or M theory), and > that it is not the beginning of the story. With comp we "know" such thing > at the start. The ultimate story is not even physical at all. > > Bruno > > > > > > >> Cheers >> >> On Sun, Nov 11, 2012 at 08:01:46AM -0500, Roger Clough wrote: >> >>> Hi Russell Standish >>> >>> It's not theory, it's measurement to 4 figures, with an error of plus or >>> minus 0.87 %: >>> >>> http://www.universetoday.com/**13371/1373-billion-years-the-** >>> most-accurate-measurement-of-**the-age-of-the-universe-yet/<http://www.universetoday.com/13371/1373-billion-years-the-most-accurate-measurement-of-the-age-of-the-universe-yet/> >>> >>> "13.73 Billion Years -- The Most Precise Measurement of the Age of the >>> Universe Yet >>> by Ian O'Neill on March 28, 2008 >>> Want to stay on top of all the space news? Follow @universetoday on >>> Twitter >>> >>> NASA? Wilkinson Microwave Anisotropy Probe (WMAP) has taken the best >>> measurement of the age of the Universe to date. >>> According to highlyprecise observations of microwave radiation observed >>> all over the cosmos, WMAP scientists now have the >>> best estimate yet on the age of the Universe: >>> 13.73 billion years, plus or minus 120 million years (that's an error >>> margin of only 0.87% ! not bad really). >>> >>> The WMAP mission was sent to the Sun-Earth second Lagrangian point (L2), >>> located approximately 1.5 million km >>> from the surface of the Earth on the night-side (i.e. WMAP is constantly >>> in the shadow of the Earth) in 2001. >>> >>> The reason for this location is the nature of the gravitational >>> stability in the region and the lack of >>> electromagnetic interference from the Sun. Constantly looking out into >>> space, WMAP scans the >>> cosmos with its ultra sensitive microwave receiver, mapping any small >>> variations in the background temperature (anisotropy) of the universe. It >>> can detect microwave radiation in the wavelength range of 3.3-13.6 mm >>> (with a corresponding frequency of 90-22 GHz). Warm and cool regions of >>> space are therefore mapped, including the radiation polarity. >>> >>> >>> Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net >>> 11/11/2012 >>> "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." -Woody Allen >>> >>> >>> ----- Receiving the following content ----- >>> From: Russell Standish >>> Receiver: everything-list >>> Time: 2012-11-10, 17:39:09 >>> Subject: Re: 14 billion years ago there was a huge explosion >>> >>> >>> Not quite. It has measured that the universe 14 billion year ago was >>> very different from now, ie very hot and dense. All else is theory - >>> some theories have a beginning, others don't. >>> >>> Cheers >>> >>> On Sat, Nov 10, 2012 at 05:50:38AM -0500, Roger Clough wrote: >>> >>>> Hi Stephen, >>>> >>>> Science has meaured the beginning of the universe >>>> to have occured about 14 billion years ago. >>>> So it has a beginning. >>>> >>>> >>>> Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net >>>> 11/10/2012 >>>> "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." -Woody Allen >>>> >>>> >>>> ----- Receiving the following content ----- >>>> From: Hal Ruhl >>>> Receiver: everything-list >>>> Time: 2012-11-09, 12:26:47 >>>> Subject: RE: Life: origin, purpose, and qualia spectrum >>>> >>>> >>>> Hi Stepen: >>>> >>>> Interesting post. >>>> >>>> I indicated in the initiating posts that life should rapidly appear >>>> where >>>> the conditions supporting it are found. >>>> >>>> I suspect that in most cases the sphere of influence for a particular >>>> instance of a biosphere is small when compared to the size of the >>>> universe. >>>> Therefore I propose to change "heat death" to "operative heat death" re >>>> your >>>> "finite resolving power" for observers. This should allow for the >>>> possibility of an "open" universe. >>>> >>>> I am also considering changing "purpose of life" to "function of life". >>>> >>>> Thanks >>>> >>>> Hal >>>> >>>> >>>> Dear Hal, >>>> >>>> What consequences would there be is the Universe (all that exists) is >>>> truly infinite and eternal (no absolute beginning or end) and what we >>>> observe as a finite (spatially and temporally) universe is just the >>>> result >>>> of our finite ability to compute the contents of our observations? It is >>>> helpful to remember that thermodynamic arguments, such as the heat >>>> engine >>>> concept, apply only to closed systems. It is better to assume open >>>> systems >>>> and finite resolving power (or equivalently finite computational >>>> abilities) >>>> for observers. >>>> >>>> -- Onward! >>>> >>>> Stephen >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>>> To post to this group, send email to >>>> everything-list@googlegroups.**com<everything-list@googlegroups.com> >>>> . >>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>> everything-list+unsubscribe@**googlegroups.com<everything-list%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com> >>>> . >>>> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/** >>>> group/everything-list?hl=en<http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en> >>>> . >>>> >>>> -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>>> To post to this group, send email to >>>> everything-list@googlegroups.**com<everything-list@googlegroups.com> >>>> . >>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>> everything-list+unsubscribe@**googlegroups.com<everything-list%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com> >>>> . >>>> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/** >>>> group/everything-list?hl=en<http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en> >>>> . >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> ------------------------------**------------------------------** >>> ---------------- >>> Prof Russell Standish Phone 0425 253119 (mobile) >>> Principal, High Performance Coders >>> Visiting Professor of Mathematics hpco...@hpcoders.com.au >>> University of New South Wales http://www.hpcoders.com.au >>> ------------------------------**------------------------------** >>> ---------------- >>> >>> -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to >>> everything-list@googlegroups.**com<everything-list@googlegroups.com> >>> . >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> everything-list+unsubscribe@**googlegroups.com<everything-list%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com> >>> . >>> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/** >>> group/everything-list?hl=en<http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en> >>> . >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to >>> everything-list@googlegroups.**com<everything-list@googlegroups.com> >>> . >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> everything-list+unsubscribe@**googlegroups.com<everything-list%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com> >>> . >>> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/** >>> group/everything-list?hl=en<http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en> >>> . >>> >>> >> -- >> >> ------------------------------**------------------------------** >> ---------------- >> Prof Russell Standish Phone 0425 253119 (mobile) >> Principal, High Performance Coders >> Visiting Professor of Mathematics hpco...@hpcoders.com.au >> University of New South Wales http://www.hpcoders.com.au >> ------------------------------**------------------------------** >> ---------------- >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To post to this group, send email to >> everything-list@googlegroups.**com<everything-list@googlegroups.com> >> . >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> everything-list+unsubscribe@**googlegroups.com<everything-list%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com> >> . >> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/** >> group/everything-list?hl=en<http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en> >> . >> >> > http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~**marchal/ <http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/> > > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To post to this group, send email to > everything-list@googlegroups.**com<everything-list@googlegroups.com> > . > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscribe@ > **googlegroups.com <everything-list%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/** > group/everything-list?hl=en<http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en> > . > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. 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