On Monday, February 11, 2019 at 9:24:18 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 11 Feb 2019, at 00:34, Philip Thrift <cloud...@gmail.com <javascript:>> > wrote: > > > > Two recent books: > > The First Minds: Caterpillars, Karyotes, and Consciousness > Arthur S. Reber > https://books.google.com/books/about/The_First_Minds.html?id=RBLEugEACAAJ > > Brain-Mind: From Neurons to Consciousness and Creativity > Paul Thagard > https://books.google.com/books/about/Brain_Mind.html?id=jJjHvAEACAAJ > > via > When Did Consciousness Begin? > Paul Thagard > > https://www.psychologytoday.com/intl/blog/hot-thought/201901/when-did-consciousness-begin > > > > > I compare with the theology of the computationalist Universal Turing > machine’s theology. > > (So I do the blasphemy some times, and it is important that keep in mind > the necessary interrogation point). I have not look at the answer of > others, to test this later …). > > Consciousness is just the “instinctive” or “automated” belief/anticipation > concerning a possible reality. > > > > > Thagard's 10 hypotheses: > > 1. Consciousness has always existed, because God is conscious and eternal. > > > Consciousness has always existed, because all universal machine/number are > conscious and “eternal” (out of time). > > Is God conscious? Open problem. > > > > > > > 2. Consciousness began when the universe formed, around 13.7 billion years > ago. > > > > This cannot be. But the event “13 billion years ago” and many variants > occurs "all the time” (or all the number-of-step of all universal > dovetailing) in the arithmetical reality. > > Those are important events in our history, but the consciousness which > does the history selection was there “before”. > > > > > > 3. Consciousness began with single-celled life, around 3.7 billion years > ago (Reber). > > > > Not really, but the consciousness of the universal machine get a physical > stable implementations, apparently relatively to us. We get many universal > entities capable of interacting with a solid notion of resources. > > > > > > 4. Consciousness began with multicellular plants, around 850 million years > ago. > > > In our histories, which “tautologically” are those semantical statifying > the logic of the material modes of self-reference, which seems the case > thanks to the quantum and Gödel (which enforces the distinction between []p > and []p & <>t in the provable part of the machine in arithmetic. > > Again, important events in our history, but consciousness was “there > before”. > > > > > > 5. Consciousness began when animals such as jellyfish got thousands of > neurons, around 580 million years ago. > > > > That’s about the time the soul of the machine falls, and they begin to > hallucinate and believe in what they were conscious of, and thus get > partially deluded. The universal machine get Löbian. Soon, they will even > begin to believe in the axiom of infinity, and calculus, if not Lagrangian > (grin). > > > > > 6. Consciousness began when insects and fish developed larger brains with > about a million neurons (honeybees) or 10 million neurons (zebrafish) > around 560 million years ago. > > > It has been discovered that bees adds and multiplies little numbers, when > they need, to get pollen from mathematical human teacher! But I still think > that spider, especially the hunters, go much farer in their conception of > reality as a video illustrates well here. At 0.44 she explores and get a > surprise when “not seeing a spider where expected”, that occurs two times, > and the second times she run away! > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ij4pdf49bxw > > > > > 7. Consciousness began when animals such as birds and mammals developed > much larger brains with hundreds of millions neurons, around 200 million > years ago. [Thagard] > > > Much larger brain enlarges the number of stupidity you can asserts, but of > course, the catastrophes are limited until … the universal (natural) > languages develops … > > > > > 8. Consciousness began with humans, homo sapiens, around 200,000 years ago. > > > “Homo sapiens” cannot be asserted by the homo if he is really sapiens … > > Let us say that the peculiar human Intelligence, accompanied by human > stupidity, begin to develop. > > Intelligence and stupidity are two big friends, they never separate each > other. > > > > > > 9. Consciousness began when human culture became advanced, around 3000 > years ago (Julian Jaynes). > > > Birth of the little ego. Birth of cruelty and the human suffering. > > > > > 10. Consciousness does not exist, as it is just a scientific mistake > (behaviorism} or a “user illusion” (Daniel Dennett). > > > Negation of the first person indubitable: you don’t exist. Dennett is > logically correct, as this follows from its ontological commitment in both > primary matter and Mechanism. > > Of course, it is simpler to just omit such an ontological commitment. > > Bruno > > > > Dennett is (or was - Philip Goff suggested he might have changed his mind last year) a phony materialist, since a real materialist believes in the "first-class" status of (material) experience (like Epicurus did).
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