Thanks Amani. I agree with you. Shelley
> On Oct 18, 2018, at 6:34 PM, Amani Oakley <aoak...@oakleylegal.com> wrote: > > Hi Shelley. Thanks for clarifying. I really didn’t know that prednisolone > could have negative effects on the heart. However, I have had the experience > of a cat with a heart murmur. Eventually, after we had looked after her for a > while, the heart murmur disappeared. > > However, if your cat pants after playing for a while, you are right that one > of the reasons may well be heart issues. > > You obviously have a terrific heart to take in a feral like that and keep him > when you found he was positive. What a nice person. > > Thanks for the info. Unfortunately, though, again, I kinda feel that in some > circumstances like FeLV, whether there are potential side-effects from some > of the meds, there are few choices and I would probably take the risk if my > cat was doing poorly (as mine was). Thank you though for that information, > which I definitely did not know. I will have to keep it in mind. > > Amani > > From: Felvtalk <felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org> On Behalf Of Shelley > Theye > Sent: October 18, 2018 6:27 PM > To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org > Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Batman Felv Positive Having Neurological issues. > > Hi Amani, > > I was speaking about corticosteroids- Prednisone or Prednisolone. Sorry for > any confusion. > I have a cat, Jack, with heart disease who also has IBD so he cannot have > steroids. > I believe there is one, which is called Budesonide? that might act more > locally in the intestines so > it could be a bit safer if a cat has heart disease. > > My FeLV positive cat Leo, who became sick quickly back in 2014, was diagnosed > with both Lymphoma and > leukemia, his WBC count was through the roof, in the 150,000’s?? I would > have to go back and look at the notes. > He was @ 5 years old. I trapped him in a neighbor’s yard to TNR, but > he tested positive so I kept him. Anyway, after the vet visit, for mainly > inappetence, he went downhill > very quickly and I thought the stress of the visit, x-rays, fluids, and pred. > might have sent him into heart failure too. > That was a guess on my part. He was an adult feral that I tamed once he > tested positive for FeLV, and he was so afraid > out of his environment that I never took him to get an echo. I only > suspected it as a possibility because he > had a murmur when he was neutered, though not later, and would pant when > playing too much with feather toy. > Something I will never know and it has always eaten away at me. > > I am not in this group much anymore, but read the messages, and just wanted > to mention to Katy, just in case. > Hopefully not that. > > Shelley > > > > > > > > > > On Oct 18, 2018, at 4:59 PM, Amani Oakley <aoak...@oakleylegal.com > <mailto:aoak...@oakleylegal.com>> wrote: > > Sorry Shelley – my email below should have read IT ISN”T prednisolone. . . > > Amani > > From: Felvtalk <felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org > <mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org>> On Behalf Of Amani Oakley > Sent: October 18, 2018 4:57 PM > To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org <mailto:felvtalk@felineleukemia.org> > Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Batman Felv Positive Having Neurological issues. > > Hi Shelley. Are you speaking about anabolic steroids or corticosteroids? And > what type in particular? I think that there may be a particular steroid which > has been linked with heart issues sometimes but it is prednisolone (which is > a corticosteroid) and it isn’t Winstrol (which is an anabolic steroid). > > Amani > > From: Felvtalk <felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org > <mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org>> On Behalf Of Shelley Theye > Sent: October 18, 2018 4:29 PM > To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org <mailto:felvtalk@felineleukemia.org> > Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Batman Felv Positive Having Neurological issues. > > Hi Katy, > > So sorry that Batman is going through this! > > Did they look at Batman’s heart while he was at the vet hospital? > Specifically did they do an echocardiogram? I am guessing that they had no > reason to with his initial symptoms so they probably didn’t? > > Maybe he has heart disease that the steroids have exacerbated... Young cats > can have it and not have any outward symptoms. Steroids are contraindicated > with heart problems. I think there is one type that can be used, but it is > not usually given first. > > Just throwing this out there just in case. Steroids could hurt his heart if > he has undiagnosed heart problem and maybe cause him to act like. > Not to scare you, just to get him treated for it if it is that. > > Shelley > > > > > On Oct 18, 2018, at 3:27 PM, Katy Brown <ktbrow...@gmail.com > <mailto:ktbrow...@gmail.com>> wrote: > > Amani, > That is very insightful. I’m not convinced he has lymphoma because his > decline was so rapid. Within hours he went from walking to having completely > rigid legs. And today he is starting to decline. I’m wondering if there is > something else I can give him besides the 5 mg of Prednisolone and the > Clindamycin. > The vet said he he keeps declining we could do another form of Chemo which is > very aggressive and has other side affects and would be a Hail Mary to buy > him another few days? > I’m just not convinced he has cancer. Even though he is FeLV positive he is > young to develop a cancer? > Sent from my iPhone > > On Oct 18, 2018, at 12:54 PM, Amani Oakley <aoak...@oakleylegal.com > <mailto:aoakley@oakleylegalcom>> wrote: > > I actually had a few similar experiences. Once it involved two very young > kittens. Once it involved a cat about a year old. In my opinion, the two > different experiences had two different causative agents, and at the risk of > boring you silly, I will try to explain both. Neither, by the way, was well > understood by the vets, leading me again to the inevitable conclusion that > cat health is very poorly studied (no where near dog health) and because cats > respond different to disease and medication, (whereas dogs respond very much > like people), then science and medicine is way behind in understanding cats. > > With respect to the kittens, it was my view that they actually had (and one > of them still has) Lyme disease. The area I picked them up was one very > well-known to be endemic for Lyme disease. They had an alternating lameness – > once picking up one paw which seemed very swollen and sore – and then next > day, picking up the other paw. I looked this up and saw that this alternating > lameness was described in dogs with Lyme disease. However, my vet believed > that it might be calici virus. I didn’t agree with her, but let her treat for > calici virus (including vaccination). The acute phase of the response seemed > to be limited in time, and both kittens seemed to get better on their own. > However, their brother lapsed into a coma – was literally unresponsive for > hours while I sat up with him. I didn’t know what to do, and my view was that > either there was inflammation of the meninges (sac surrounding the brain) or > an inflammation of the brain itself, causing increased intracranial pressure > which might also result in loss of consciousness. I superdosed him with > transdermal prednisone, took him to bed with me and kept checking him for > hours. Then, suddenly, at about 4 in the morning, he just bounded awake, and > began playing and galavanting all over the bed. Meanwhile, though, one of his > two sisters has never been the same. She lost HUGE amounts of weight, and > even now, as a 2+ year old cat, she weighs less than many kittens and she is > all bones. I have been treating her with a combination of Winstrol, > Doxycycline, high prednisone doses and magnesium (her muscles don’t work > right – like they are constantly spastic, and she walks in a funny tip toe > way, and has poor coordination jumping on things and going up stairs, etc.) > Anyhow, she is starting to get better, starting to put on weight and starting > to walk better. I am convinced this was and is Lyme disease, though > scientists and vets say that cats don’t get it. I don’t know how they know > this, because they DO NOT TEST cats for it. > > Story number two involves a kitten I got who was described as a “wobbly” > kitten and it was assumed that his mom had suffered a viral infection when he > was in utero, which can result in this type of neurological damage (and it > can be much worse). However, when he was very little, he suddenly and without > warning, decided to squat and pee right in the middle of our bed, and he had > never done this before. He was looking straight at me and I felt that he > didn’t know why he was doing what he was doing. Not too long after (a few > weeks or maybe a month), he started showing some very alarming neurological > symptoms, including a loss of muscle control in the back end. His rectum > seemed not tight but loose and stool just “fell out” rather than being pushed > out. His back legs in particular also became very very weak, and he developed > a “tripod stance” – both back legs together – his back end would sway and he > would fall down. My knowledge with humans is that this occurs when there is > damage to nerves in the spinal column, or pressure on them from a herniated > disc, or something like that (cauda equina syndrome). I took him to the > emergency clinic, but I had already started him on Winstrol and Prednisolone, > assuming that the Prednisolone would help with reduction of swelling in the > spinal canal and thus take pressure off the affected nerves, and the Winstrol > might help in healing whatever injury there was in the spinal column. By the > time they could do an MRI on him, he was regaining all function and his gait > had become normal. The MRI was inconclusive, with the vets thinking that they > could possible see the remains of a lesion, right in the area where one would > expect it to be to affect rectal control and muscle function of the back > legs, but the lesion appeared to be healed over so they couldn’t tell if that > was the cause or if the lesion was old or new. > > It sounds to me like the prednisone you used in your case, has a similar > effect. There was swelling somewhere, likely in the spinal column as you > surmise, and the prednisone helped bring down the swelling. > > Amani > > From: Felvtalk <felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org > <mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org>> On Behalf Of katy brown > Sent: October 18, 2018 12:21 PM > To: Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org <mailto:Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org> > Subject: [Felvtalk] Batman Felv Positive Having Neurological issues. > > Hello, > I have an amazing cat named Batman who a year ago as a kitten tested positive > for FelV. His brother also texted positive, after 2 other tests later on > after the antibodies from the mother had cleared, Batman still tested > positive while his brother was negative. > > Fast forward a year and both of them were doing great I was away on vacation > and left them with a full time cat sitter, who notice about a week ago that > Batman was not going up stairs as much, but we figured this could be to him > just adjusting to a new person in his home. When I arrived back home I > immediately noticed he was not moving well and as the day progressed he was > losing more mobility in his front paws. I took him to the emergency room > where they thought he had experienced a trauma, and discharged him with 2 > types of pain meds. The pain meds were a disaster, and he lost further > mobility. From there we took him to Pennsylvania Vet. Hospital, which is > supposed to be one of the best in the country, they realized he was having > neurological issues, did a bunch of testing, his vitals and blood work were > all good. An x-ray revealed no masses in his chest or spine. At this point > they felt it was a cancer in his column, most likely lymphoma. The Vet > thought that he was quite young even given his FeLV positive status to have > lymphoma, but given how fast he was becoming completely paralyzed, there were > not many other diagnosis that fit the bill. The vet started him on > Prednisolone and Clindamycin, and within hours he regained movement in his > legs and was walking again. Yesterday he was jumping and scratching on his > post again, and eating and drinking. Last night his behavior changed and he > kept trying to hide which is very unlike him, however I thought that maybe he > was just tired, he had gone from completely paralyzed to jumping in 3 days. > But this morning it was apparent that he was not ok, he did eat after much > encouragement, but has moved very very little. I have called the Vet and am > waiting to hear back but I'm not optimistic. Has anyone had this experience? > I don't want to put him down if there is a chance he could come back but he > is hardly moving and seems like him trying to hide was him trying to find a > place to pass away quietly. Batman is so young and he is the sweetest cat I > have ever owned, and his brother can't get along with out him. I will try > anything to keep him alive but I want him to have a good quality life. Any > suggestions would be appreciated. > > Also I apologize if I did not use this forum correctly. I wasn't sure if I > emailed the group or how it works so I hope this does work. > _______________________________________________ > Felvtalk mailing list > Felvtalk@felineleukemiaorg <mailto:Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org> > http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org > <http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org> > _______________________________________________ > Felvtalk mailing list > Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org <mailto:Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org> > http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org > <http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org> > > _______________________________________________ > Felvtalk mailing list > Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org <mailto:Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org> > http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org > <http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org> > > _______________________________________________ > Felvtalk mailing list > Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org > http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
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