I think that like many diseases, he will always test positive. My Annie is still positive and is 8 going on 9 this year. She is healthy, with a glossy coat and active. She shows no signs of having any illness and goes to the vet every year like I do for a check up.
---- Ardy Robertson <ar...@centurytel.net> wrote: > My Tigger who is FeLV+ and was sick, has since rounded the corner and is > better. My vet had him on interferon. After she considered him to be “back to > normal” she wanted to wait 30 days and retest him for the virus. I had him > retested two weeks ago, and he is still positive unfortunately but is doing > wonderfully – eating, drinking, playing, happy etc. He had lost two and a > half pounds, and has gained it all back except for 2/10’s of a pound. She > said he could go on like this indefinitely, but is still considered a > “carrier”. I of course will not have him near other cats except his housemate > who is 18 and negative. They originally wanted me to put her down too (and > she is perfectly healthy – just old.) Hello! Could I at least wait until she > gets sick??? Duh. > > > > Since Tigger is still positive, I asked the vet about Winstrol if he needs > something later on, and she is now AGREEABLE to getting it for me at that > point if necessary. I am located in West Central Wisconsin. I hope I never > need to ask for it, but it was nice to hear that she is willing to prescribe > it if I want it. Maybe there are a few vets that are beginning to listen. > When Tigger first got sick, she did not offer it, but I have mentioned it to > her a few times so she may have done some reading on it. I also am using a > second vet who is closer to my home for some of Tigg’s needs and have talked > to them about it too. Their position on FeLV+ cats has always been to > euthanize immediately, and since Tigger’s return to health, they were > questioning me on what my other vet did to treat him. Both of the vet offices > have been amazed at Tigger’s recovery, and seem to feel that now there is a > chance for FeLV+ cats. I pray every day that Tigger will live out the > remainder of his life as a healthy cat. He is 5 now, and they feel that he > was born with it, even though he tested negative when I first found him. > (They said he must have been “shedding” the virus at the time I had him > tested, so the test was inaccurate. Apparently you have to retest if you want > to be sure…..who knew?) They also told me the vaccination can be ineffective > in some cases. > > > > Ardy > > > > > > From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of > Amani Oakley > Sent: Monday, December 21, 2015 11:35 AM > To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org > Subject: [Felvtalk] FW: Felvtalk Digest, Vol 20, Issue 9 > > > > I tried to send this on December 19th. It is being held to review by the > listserve because it is too large a file. I don’t know how long it takes to > review, but I think three days is a bit unreasonable. I am trying to send it > again. > > > > Amani > > > > > > > > Dear Annette: > > > > Believe me – I’ve talked and talked to my vets and a very good friend of mine > who is also a senior research vet. They really can’t give me any reason for > the bizarre response. They refer back to the rise in enzymes but also – like > your vet – usually concede the rise is temporary and there is no real > evidence of actual damage to the liver. Having had these conversations, > researched the medication like crazy, especially in light of the amazing > response I have seen in my cats, I ultimately came up with the theory of the > bad association with athletic abuse. Maybe it’s a little like going in and > asking for a substance that the general public associates with bad things – > say cannabis (marijuana). Even with proof of a good response in animals > (because there is also evidence on line of Winstrol’s effectiveness in dogs) > the immediate reaction would be a negative one because of the public > perception of cannabis. > > > > However, the problem I have with this automatic and not-particularly > well-thought out response is several-fold: > > > > 1. We just DON’T have that many effective options with feline leukemia > so to refuse to even consider a medication that may reverse the severe anemia > which results from FeLV and seems to also boost the production of white cells > and platelets, as well as allowing the animal to FEEL better, eat more and > put on weight, is nonsensical, and frankly, the choice should be that of the > owner – not the vet. If something might actually save my cat’s life, I have a > right to know about it, rather than being told to put my cat down. Period. > > 2. It is highly unlikely that a vet would not know if a person were > instead abusing the medication for him/herself or selling it. At the > recommended dose for a cat (1 mg tablets), a person would have to take 10 to > 12 tablets to get to the RECOMMENDED dose for a human. To abuse the drug at > the levels taken by athletes, one would have to take more than double those > number of tablets daily (and I have no idea how many more than double, since > athletes sometimes use it at 100 or 1,000 times higher than the recommended > dose). But even at the recommended human dose – ie – a level which is used in > humans to treat things like severe anemia – the average number of pills given > by a vet at one time for a cat (say 50 to 100 pills, which I sometimes get > from my vet) would be used up in 5 to 10 days. Winstrol has to be taken for > considerably longer than that to have much effect. Thus, it would more than > obvious to any vet with a modicum of concern, if a client were potentially > abusing the medication. And besides, it’s hardly the only drug that vets give > out that can also be used in people and has the potential for abuse. (eg – > phenobarbital – one of my cats was on it because he suffered from very > serious seizures – often multiples in a day. This is a known street drug, and > a favourite drug abused by teens. I never had any problem or issues getting > it from my vet, and in fact, never knew until long after my cat passed away, > that it could be abused in this way.) Bottom line, Winstrol poses no more > danger than all kinds of other medications we routinely get from vets without > them acting like you’re asking for something that suggests you’re morally > bankrupt. And again, is it fair to a dying cat that a vet might decide not to > even tell you about this option, because maybe, just maybe, he or she wonders > if you are going to abuse the drug and try out for the Olympics? > > 3. Remember that Winstrol can be and is used in human patients. It is > not “illegal” to use Winstrol in human medicine. Like most other medications, > it requires a prescription to obtain it. It is only a banned substance if you > are an athlete and competing, BECAUSE IT IS A PERFORMANCE ENHANCING DRUG AND > CONSIDERED ABLE TO “UNFAIRLY” BOOST YOUR SPEED, ENDURANCE, STRENGTH, AND > ABILITY TO RECOVER FROM A STRENOUS WORK-OUT OR INJURY, AGAINST YOUR ATHLETIC > COMPETITORS. Our cats aren’t in the Olympics. We just want them to survive. > > 4. Like marijuana, the public hype may get in the way of reality. We > were all brought up to consider marijuana bad, and if you tried it, you were > bad too. Anyone who has looked into the fascinating story of how modern > society ended up deciding this substance was bad, will see many parallels > with the Winstrol story. In both, the public reaction has been fueled by not > particularly accurate media coverage, that glosses over the lack of > scientific validity for our strong negative response to both. It is becoming > more and more apparent from scientific testing and people’s personal > experiences and testimonials, that there are significant medicinal uses for > marijuana – often in circumstances where nothing else has worked. Sadly, I > think that Winstrol is in the same category. We won’t be told about its > potential usage because of the stigma attached to it – not because it doesn’t > work. This angers me greatly. If vets had something effective to offer > instead, then I would surely not care. But my cat almost died and the vets > were uniform in recommending he be put down to “maintain his quality of life” > while I desperately searched for something that might work. To recommend he > be put down, instead of at least offering a trial of a drug that might help > (even if I believe the more benign reason of the fear of liver damage – which > again makes no sense as he was dying anyway), I think is unethical. The > choice should be mine. My cat shouldn’t be denied a drug because Ben Johnston > lost the gold medal in the 1988 Olympics because he was on Winstrol when he > set a record for running the mile. (And this is precisely when the use of > Winstrol plummeted – after this scandal.) My cat wasn’t planning to run the > mile in the Olympics any time soon – he just wanted to enjoy a few good years > on this earth. > > 5. Annette, again, if your hypothesis is correct and you think that > perhaps vets won’t prescribe this medication because they fear a stigma being > attached to their names if they do, I would have to point out the obvious > lack of ethics in leaving an animal to die in order to allegedly protect your > name. Once again, I point out the obvious: the choice does not rest with the > vet. It rests with the owner. The owner cannot make an educated decision if > he or she isn’t even being made aware of Winstrol as an option. If the vet > felt that strongly about it - and seriously, if the vet does, I think that > shows some lack of insight and research – but if so, then the vet should tell > the client and indicate that if the client wants the medication, he or she > will have to go elsewhere. It is not appropriate for the vet to impose > his/her perception of stigma onto an unsuspecting and unknowing client, when > the outcome may well be the death of the cat. > > > > I know I sound like an evangelical minister on this stuff, but it is > precisely because I agree with you Annette. As I searched for an explanation > as to why I hadn’t been told about the potential to use Winstrol when my > Zander was dying, I realized that it had nothing at all to do with the > medical use of Winstrol and everything to do with the stigma associated with > it and this incensed me. Had I not opened up my drawer and desperately > decided to try anything I found in there because my cat was dying and I was > out of options, Zander would have died at the age of one-and-a-half. And then > to find out that I hadn’t just “discovered” something unknown, but that the > vets knew of it and used to prescribe it, but never bothered to tell me about > it – well that was just stunning to me. Others on this chatline have > suggested that vets stopped using it because it just wasn’t that effective, > but (a) that hasn’t been my experience and (b) even if there was only a slim > chance of success, when the odds that my cat was going to die, were 100%, I > should have been given the option of trying it. > > > > I am happy that my vet trusts me and that I have been allowed to explore the > use of Winstrol in feline leukemia and other conditions. That is the type of > partnership that I would hope everyone has with their vet. > > > > Amani > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of > Annette Burton > Sent: December-19-15 7:51 AM > To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org <mailto:felvtalk@felineleukemia.org> > Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Felvtalk Digest, Vol 20, Issue 9 > > > > Good morning. > > I recently posted about losing my four year old Sam, to feline leukemia. I > took his brother , Domino, in to get him tested. He was negative, and my vet > gave him the vaccine, along with 3 year rabies, and two other things, and he > had a terrible reaction, which abated after four days . > > During Dom visit, I asked her about Winstrol. She almost seemed as if it were > a taboo subject, although she agreed that the elevated liver enzymes drop > after stopping it for a few days. > > > > I wish she had not been so busy that day. As I'd have loved to talk with her > more, about why vets seem so frightened of winstrol. She did mention it being > a med abused by athletes. Perhaps they fear a stigma being attached to their > names, for even prescribing it, or someone potentially abusing it? > > > > > _______________________________________________ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
