good post. We just convinced the big boys to spring for Flex. Got a couple licenses at a vendor pricing, we have over 30 CF liceneses around here. Pricing was not so bad, we are a big oracle shop, Oracle is far from cheap. We also are a Siebel and Websphere shop in the enterprise area. We happen to have all Enterprise CF, so we can use JRun, I'm sure Tomcat could have been used just as well if we didn't have JRun around.
I'm the lucky guinea pig that gets to churn out the first app. yeehaw!
BTW, nice breezo on synergy Scott.
DK
On 7/19/05, Scott Barnes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Firstly, moved this to a separate thread (no use hijacking an existing
one - hope no1 minds much)
I've moaned and groaned about the price tag since it was first
announced. I've been on both ends in trying to implement the
technology.
The thing is, it is selling, and since I last heard - selling well. If
you only have 1x Application that needs building and can't afford the
price tag, again seek the OEM edition(s) as they can be more
approachable.
As for recouping costs? We have approx 5-6 developers dedicated to
FLEX/CFMX development here, all costing around $70k+ AUD a year. Now,
if you broke down their output capabilities it would be safe to argue
that they could probably churn out about 9-15 Enterprise level
applications that suite the business a year.
Now, at this point use products like Laszlo (I mean especially now
with Flash Player 8's capabilties...again, yet another reason to keep
close to Macromedia) or DHTML in reality how many applications could
be made per year?
My point, is that it certainly can be justified in terms of "why you
should buy it", but you have to target the right people with the right
information which underpins my comments I guess, as for me it was a
dramatic awakening here locally.
In a nutshell, we bought FLEX, it was great - except - I'm the only
developer here who knows the language, the rest look to me for
guidance "how do i center the titlewindow popup" etc.
I once broke down the pricing in reality terms, via my blog. I think I
guesstimated it would cost around 50k AUD in the first year, just to
implement it.
http://www.mossyblog.com/archives/235.cfm - Flex the Hidden Costs.
Now, looking back on it, so far it hasn't cost us as much. Mainly as
we are kind dodge in the way we implemented our FLEX environment (ie
using Single CPU servers for a start). Development machine is more of
a "staging machine" and we use the developers edition locally on pc's
to dev with.
We bypassed training costs, as in truth management were reluctant to
send all developers to Sydney so they can train.
The development team are taking baby steps into the product, at
present I've been the only one working on larger applications (which
isn't that bad i guess) while the others are easing into the product.
One thing I personally overlooked was the fact we also needed a J2EE
server. I had assumed that FLEX Commercial was much like Flex
Developer, in that it comes bundled with a standalone server. ..ok I'm
a moron and should of read the System Requirements a bit more closely.
So we had to upgrade Coldfusion 7 Prof to Coldfusion 7 Ent.
My point? at this stage if I were to be hauled into an office and
justify on why we should pursue with FLEX, I'd reluctantly have to
take a sobering step back and ponder if it does hold merit? For me as
a developer personally, I've done more work in the last few months
then i would of if were forced to use DHTML or FLASH MX 2004. That's
for sure.
As for the other developers? hard to say on whether they gained
traction in terms of development speed. Part of me See's that they
were able to churn through the basic UI framework, yet I have to sadly
say they are still in the "easing" stage were the learning curve is
still there (so one could argue a reduction in output)
In truth, I probably could not accurately answer on whether we gained
or lost more in our FLEX investment. As for future investment? well
that goes without saying, simply put: we already have invested in it
and its too late to turn back now. Just means our shareholders will
have to buy a Honda next year instead of that BMW they had their eye
on ehehehe.
Hopefully the FLEX clientele will pick up as now I'm a committed FLEX
developer, and would love to continue a career in the product - yet,
Australia for one doesn't have much in the way of Job Offers with FLEX
(I've see/gotten more US based offers)
--
Regards,
Scott Barnes
http://www.mossyblog.com
---------- message ----------
From: ejames8124 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Jul 20, 2005 6:46 AM
Subject: [flexcoders] Re: If I buy a flex license can I host other
peoples apps on the license?
To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com
Take a look at http://www.openlaszlo.org/ this is an open source
version of a server side flash code generator that in the latest 3.x
version is matched very closely in features as Flex. It doesn't have
as fully featured a development environment as Flex Builder but the
current Open Source IDE for Laszlo is produced by IBM for the Eclipse
IDE environment and unlike Flex it is cross platform in the
development side and best of all it is free. Don't get me wrong I
think that Flex is great but the server cost just isn't in most
organizations budget.
--- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com, naden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Hi Stace,
>
> I am over here at a university in Perth, Australia and are looking at
> Flex for one of our software projects.
>
> I would be immensely grateful if you had any thoughts on Flex in
> general, whether it is worth the money etc
>
> Usability improvements and reduced development costs are always a
> huge benefit :)
>
> Cheers,
>
> Naden
>
> On 19/07/2005, at 10:52 PM, Stacy Young wrote:
>
> > I think the critical factor is the first flex project. That's what
> > will make or break the perception of bean counters. Usability
> > improvements, reduced development costs, look and feel all come
> > into play. That very first project needs to make a statement…or you
> > may be up the creek the next time you go to the till for licensing
> > cash.
> >
> >
> >
> > -Stace
> >
> >
> >
> > From: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com
> > [mailto:flexcoders@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Rick Bullotta
> > Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2005 10:42 AM
> > To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: RE: [flexcoders] Re: If I buy a flex license can I host
> > other peoples apps on the license?
> >
> >
> >
> > Agree with you. But 125K for a system that would be deployed
> > broadly and may be "mission critical" would seem tiny – probably
> > the same as the janitorial budget for a day or two. I also agree
> > with your choice of wording in "seemingly free alternatives…". J
> >
> >
> >
> > - Rick
> >
> > From: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com
> > [mailto:flexcoders@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Anthony Merryfield
> > Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2005 10:38 AM
> > To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: RE: [flexcoders] Re: If I buy a flex license can I host
> > other peoples apps on the license?
> >
> >
> >
> > Depends what you're comparing. If I was a technical beancounter
> > looking at the cost of Flex, comparing it to open source solutions
> > and then seeing what our application requirements were; I'd be
> > asking why we were spending ANY thousands of pounds on proprietary
> > software over seemingly free alternatives. Especially since...
> >
> >
> >
> > "We were going to buy something like 8 or 14 additional licenses to
> > the multitude we already have, and
> > the pricing is just totally ridiculous for what we need it for."
> >
> >
> >
> > ...I'd be asking why you need more licenses if you are not using it
> > to it's fullest potential yet?
> >
> >
> >
> > To be fair, we're making judgements on one piece of a puzzle -
> > maybe Jon could expand on his statement before we sit here waxing
> > lyrical about his companies policies?
> >
> >
> >
> > T.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Flexcoders Mailing List
> > FAQ: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/files/flexcodersFAQ.txt
> > Search Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexcoders%
> > 40yahoogroups.com
> >
> >
> > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> >
> > Visit your group "flexcoders" on the web.
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
> >
> >
> >
> >
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