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Today's Topics:
1. Re: DIY 10 MHz sources for putting Flex 5000A "DEAD
ON"
orreally close (Jerry Flanders)
2. Re: DIY 10 MHz sources for putting Flex 5000A "DEAD
ON" or
really close (John Stuart)
3. Question about NB1 and NB2, not working as I expect
it to
(Mark Lunday)
4. Re: DIY 10 MHz sources for putting Flex 5000A "DEAD
ON"
orreally close (Richard Solomon)
5. Re: DIY 10 MHz sources for putting Flex 5000A "DEAD
ON"
orreally close (Patrick Greenlee)
6. Re: DIY 10 MHz sources for putting Flex 5000A "DEAD
ON"
orreally close (Richard Solomon)
7. Re: DIY 10 MHz sources for putting Flex 5000A "DEAD
ON"
orreally close (Brian Lloyd)
8. Re: DIY 10 MHz sources for putting Flex 5000A "DEAD
ON"
orreally close (William H. Fite)
9. Re: Question about NB1 and NB2, not working as I
expect it to
(Bob McGwier)
10. Re: Question about NB1 and NB2, not working as I
expect it to
(Graham Haddock)
11. Re: DIY 10 MHz sources for putting Flex 5000A "DEAD
ON"
orreally close (Bob McGwier)
12. Re: Question about NB1 and NB2, not working as I
expect it to
(Bob McGwier)
13. Re: Question about NB1 and NB2, not working as I
expect it to
(Burt)
14. Re: Question about NB1 and NB2, not working as I
expect it to
(Mark Lunday)
15. Re: Question about NB1 and NB2, not working as I
expect it to
(Mark Lunday)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 14:59:33 -0500
From: Jerry Flanders <jefland...@comcast.net>
To: Brian Lloyd <brian-wb6...@lloyd.com>
Cc: FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz
Subject: Re: [Flexradio] DIY 10 MHz sources for putting
Flex 5000A
"DEAD ON" orreally close
Message-ID:
<mailman.7.1361303973.9393.flexradio_flex-radio....@flex-radio.biz>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii";
format=flowed
I think the most important thing to remember in the Rb
vs GPSDO
debate is that without some other standard like a GPSDO
or better to
compare to or calibrate against, you never know that
your Rb
oscillator is actually on-freq. The LPRO-101 has an
adjustment to
vary its freq. How would I know that adjustment pot
didn't get
jostled during shipment? Lastly, since we know the
early Rb units
were subject to failure due to aging of the Rb tube, how
would I know
the one I was considering has much life remaining ?
Bottom line - I would HAVE to be able to check/calibrate
it, but
against what primary reference?
Without a GPSDO to compare the Rb to, I think buying a
Rb one would
be a crap-shoot. After thinking it through, I skipped
the Rb step
and went straight to the GPSDO.
Jerry W4UK
At 11:47 PM 2/18/2013, Brian Lloyd wrote:
On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 7:35 PM, Richard Solomon
<w1...@earthlink.net>wrote:
> I also have both (two RbO's and 4 GPSDO's). I'll take
the GPSDO any day.
>
This is not a, "which one is better," question. It is a
question of what is
the job you are trying to do.
It is useful to understand the differences. Certainly the
long-term
stability of the GPSDO is better because the reference
oscillator is always
being corrected back to the correct time, i.e. long term
number of cycles.
But in the short term, variations in the GPS satellite
geometry can cause
the GPSDO to exhibit short-term frequency errors. Of
course, long-term
these are corrected back out but if one was comparing one
would notice
small short-term variations in the frequency of the GPSDO
while the RbO
showed more stability. So the question is, which is more
important?
Of course, could could have a GPS-disciplined Rb
reference. Now you get the
best of both worlds, i.e. dead-nuts accurate long term
stability with
outstanding short-term stability.
And the other thing that many people seem to forget about
is the phase
noise of the disciplined reference oscillator. That may
have substantial
effect on the performance of the receiver over and above
the frequency
accuracy.
So, when it comes to the question of, "which is better,
an Rb reference
oscillator or a GPS disciplined oscillator," the answer
is a resounding,
"it depends."
I still hold that, for most people looking to increase
the frequency
stability and accuracy of their Flex 1500 or 5000, an Rb
reference like the
LPRO-101 is simpler for the following reasons:
1. No outside GPS antenna needed.
2. The LPRO-101 runs on a single 19V supply (I use an
old laptop power
supply) while the Thunderbolt needs +5V, +12V, and
-14V. I use a cheap
laptop DC supply to run my LPRO-101 from the shack
12V supply.
3. The output of the LPRO-101 may be fed to the
external reference input
with no attenuation.
4. The LPRO-101 has relatively low phase noise.
Like I said, I have both but find the LPRO-101 Rb
reference easier to use
and its accuracy still exceeds the tuning accuracy of the
radio.
--
Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL
3191 Western Dr.
Cameron Park, CA 95682
br...@lloyd.com
+1.767.617.1365 (Dominica)
+1.916.877.5067 (USA)
_______________________________________________
FlexRadio Systems Mailing List
FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz
http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz
Archives:
http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/
Knowledge Base: http://kc.flexradio.com/ Homepage:
http://www.flexradio.com/
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 12:48:34 -0800
From: "John Stuart" <j.w.stu...@comcast.net>
To: "'Jerry Flanders'" <jefland...@comcast.net>, "'Brian
Lloyd'"
<brian-wb6...@lloyd.com>
Cc: FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz
Subject: Re: [Flexradio] DIY 10 MHz sources for putting
Flex 5000A
"DEAD ON" or really close
Message-ID: <287F35ED2B6C4903A8EACA21D029643C@JohnDell>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I'm with you Jerry. I have 4 Rb oscillators and only
one still runs. I
also have 4 GPSDOs and they all have always worked.
Also, with ThunderBolt GPSDOs, you get to play with Lady
Heather, and that's
a real learning experience!
John Stuart, KM6QX
FMT Nut with a Flex-1500
-----Original Message-----
From: FlexRadio [mailto:flexradio-boun...@flex-radio.biz]
On Behalf Of Jerry
Flanders
Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2013 12:00 PM
To: Brian Lloyd
Cc: FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz
Subject: Re: [Flexradio] DIY 10 MHz sources for putting
Flex 5000A "DEAD ON"
orreally close
I think the most important thing to remember in the Rb
vs GPSDO
debate is that without some other standard like a GPSDO
or better to
compare to or calibrate against, you never know that
your Rb
oscillator is actually on-freq. The LPRO-101 has an
adjustment to
vary its freq. How would I know that adjustment pot
didn't get
jostled during shipment? Lastly, since we know the
early Rb units
were subject to failure due to aging of the Rb tube, how
would I know
the one I was considering has much life remaining ?
Bottom line - I would HAVE to be able to check/calibrate
it, but
against what primary reference?
Without a GPSDO to compare the Rb to, I think buying a
Rb one would
be a crap-shoot. After thinking it through, I skipped
the Rb step
and went straight to the GPSDO.
Jerry W4UK
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 16:11:12 -0500
From: "Mark Lunday" <wd4...@triad.rr.com>
To: <FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz>
Subject: [Flexradio] Question about NB1 and NB2, not
working as I
expect it to
Message-ID: <002801ce0ee5$a56655d0$f0330170$@rr.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I don't normally use these.because of what happens.
I have local conditions that are quiet (-130 dBm, But I
do have a few RFI
sources (still to be located) which generate a 20 kHz
wide "hilltop" of
noise up to -115 dBm. The noise looks like a camel hump
on the panadapter,
and is usually on the CW portion of the 15 meter band
down low, and the 12
meter CW portion as well.
When I turn on NB1 to curb that "camel hump" because I
want to hear weak
signals that are affected in that 20 kHz segment, the
entire noise floor
drops including that "hump", but so do the signals to
the point of being
unreadable. And if there is a strong signal above -115
dBm anywhere in the
band, the noise floor pulses to that signal.especially
if it is CW. Which
renders the NB1 effect useless.
I see a similar but less pronounced behavior when using
NB2.the "hump" drops
a bit but the noise floor and signals do not drop (good,
but not as good in
eliminating the noise with NB1).but the entire band
pulses if any CW signals
above -115 dBm are present (obviously not good).
Pre-amp has no impact. Resetting database has no
impact.
Using Flex 3000, SDR 2.5.3. I have noticed this in
earlier versions of SDR,
which is why I did not use the features. But it has me
wondering about
it.and I would like to use it.
Mark Lunday, WD4ELG
Greensboro, NC FM06be
wd4...@arrl.net
http://wd4elg.blogspot.com
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 14:59:02 -0700
From: Richard Solomon <w1...@earthlink.net>
To: flexradio@flex-radio.biz
Subject: Re: [Flexradio] DIY 10 MHz sources for putting
Flex 5000A
"DEAD ON" orreally close
Message-ID: <5123f5a6.9040...@earthlink.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1;
format=flowed
A while back, over on the "evil empire", they were
selling both the
GPSDO and
RbO that were scrapped out of Agilent systems. The
didn't have the inter-
connect cables, but they were easy to make.
I bought one just to experiment with, but quickly
decided that for my
needs, the
GPSDO was all I needed.
Alas, they seem to have dried up.
73, Dick, W1KSZ
On 2/19/2013 12:59 PM, Jerry Flanders wrote:
I think the most important thing to remember in the Rb
vs GPSDO debate
is that without some other standard like a GPSDO or
better to compare
to or calibrate against, you never know that your Rb
oscillator is
actually on-freq. The LPRO-101 has an adjustment to vary
its freq. How
would I know that adjustment pot didn't get jostled
during shipment? Lastly, since we know the early Rb units were
subject to
failure due
to aging of the Rb tube, how would I know the one I was
considering
has much life remaining ?
Bottom line - I would HAVE to be able to check/calibrate
it, but
against what primary reference?
Without a GPSDO to compare the Rb to, I think buying a
Rb one would be
a crap-shoot. After thinking it through, I skipped the
Rb step and
went straight to the GPSDO.
Jerry W4UK
At 11:47 PM 2/18/2013, Brian Lloyd wrote:
On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 7:35 PM, Richard Solomon
<w1...@earthlink.net>wrote:
> I also have both (two RbO's and 4 GPSDO's). I'll take
the GPSDO any
day.
>
This is not a, "which one is better," question. It is a
question of
what is
the job you are trying to do.
It is useful to understand the differences. Certainly
the long-term
stability of the GPSDO is better because the reference
oscillator is
always
being corrected back to the correct time, i.e. long term
number of
cycles.
But in the short term, variations in the GPS satellite
geometry can
cause
the GPSDO to exhibit short-term frequency errors. Of
course, long-term
these are corrected back out but if one was comparing
one would notice
small short-term variations in the frequency of the
GPSDO while the RbO
showed more stability. So the question is, which is more
important?
Of course, could could have a GPS-disciplined Rb
reference. Now you
get the
best of both worlds, i.e. dead-nuts accurate long term
stability with
outstanding short-term stability.
And the other thing that many people seem to forget
about is the phase
noise of the disciplined reference oscillator. That may
have substantial
effect on the performance of the receiver over and above
the frequency
accuracy.
So, when it comes to the question of, "which is better,
an Rb reference
oscillator or a GPS disciplined oscillator," the answer
is a resounding,
"it depends."
I still hold that, for most people looking to increase
the frequency
stability and accuracy of their Flex 1500 or 5000, an Rb
reference
like the
LPRO-101 is simpler for the following reasons:
1. No outside GPS antenna needed.
2. The LPRO-101 runs on a single 19V supply (I use an
old laptop
power
supply) while the Thunderbolt needs +5V, +12V, and
-14V. I use a
cheap
laptop DC supply to run my LPRO-101 from the shack
12V supply.
3. The output of the LPRO-101 may be fed to the
external reference
input
with no attenuation.
4. The LPRO-101 has relatively low phase noise.
Like I said, I have both but find the LPRO-101 Rb
reference easier to
use
and its accuracy still exceeds the tuning accuracy of
the radio.
--
Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL
3191 Western Dr.
Cameron Park, CA 95682
br...@lloyd.com
+1.767.617.1365 (Dominica)
+1.916.877.5067 (USA)
_______________________________________________
FlexRadio Systems Mailing List
FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz
http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz
Archives:
http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/
Knowledge Base: http://kc.flexradio.com/ Homepage:
http://www.flexradio.com/
_______________________________________________
FlexRadio Systems Mailing List
FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz
http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz
Archives:
http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/
Knowledge Base: http://kc.flexradio.com/ Homepage:
http://www.flexradio.com/
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 16:21:42 -0600
From: "Patrick Greenlee" <patric...@windstream.net>
To: "Richard Solomon" <w1...@earthlink.net>,
<flexradio@flex-radio.biz>
Subject: Re: [Flexradio] DIY 10 MHz sources for putting
Flex 5000A
"DEAD ON" orreally close
Message-ID: <3104CAFBE06A458696C3F15B705836AF@PatrickPC>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed;
charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=response
Not dried up. $75 or so on evilBay now.
-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Solomon
Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2013 3:59 PM
To: flexradio@flex-radio.biz
Subject: Re: [Flexradio] DIY 10 MHz sources for putting
Flex 5000A "DEAD ON"
orreally close
A while back, over on the "evil empire", they were
selling both the
GPSDO and
RbO that were scrapped out of Agilent systems. The
didn't have the inter-
connect cables, but they were easy to make.
I bought one just to experiment with, but quickly
decided that for my
needs, the
GPSDO was all I needed.
Alas, they seem to have dried up.
73, Dick, W1KSZ
On 2/19/2013 12:59 PM, Jerry Flanders wrote:
I think the most important thing to remember in the Rb
vs GPSDO debate is
that without some other standard like a GPSDO or better
to compare to or
calibrate against, you never know that your Rb
oscillator is actually
on-freq. The LPRO-101 has an adjustment to vary its
freq. How would I know
that adjustment pot didn't get jostled during shipment?
Lastly, since we
know the early Rb units were subject to failure due to
aging of the Rb
tube, how would I know the one I was considering has
much life remaining ?
Bottom line - I would HAVE to be able to check/calibrate
it, but against
what primary reference?
Without a GPSDO to compare the Rb to, I think buying a
Rb one would be a
crap-shoot. After thinking it through, I skipped the Rb
step and went
straight to the GPSDO.
Jerry W4UK
At 11:47 PM 2/18/2013, Brian Lloyd wrote:
On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 7:35 PM, Richard Solomon
<w1...@earthlink.net>wrote:
> I also have both (two RbO's and 4 GPSDO's). I'll take
the GPSDO any
day.
>
This is not a, "which one is better," question. It is a
question of what
is
the job you are trying to do.
It is useful to understand the differences. Certainly
the long-term
stability of the GPSDO is better because the reference
oscillator is
always
being corrected back to the correct time, i.e. long term
number of
cycles.
But in the short term, variations in the GPS satellite
geometry can cause
the GPSDO to exhibit short-term frequency errors. Of
course, long-term
these are corrected back out but if one was comparing
one would notice
small short-term variations in the frequency of the
GPSDO while the RbO
showed more stability. So the question is, which is more
important?
Of course, could could have a GPS-disciplined Rb
reference. Now you get
the
best of both worlds, i.e. dead-nuts accurate long term
stability with
outstanding short-term stability.
And the other thing that many people seem to forget
about is the phase
noise of the disciplined reference oscillator. That may
have substantial
effect on the performance of the receiver over and above
the frequency
accuracy.
So, when it comes to the question of, "which is better,
an Rb reference
oscillator or a GPS disciplined oscillator," the answer
is a resounding,
"it depends."
I still hold that, for most people looking to increase
the frequency
stability and accuracy of their Flex 1500 or 5000, an Rb
reference like
the
LPRO-101 is simpler for the following reasons:
1. No outside GPS antenna needed.
2. The LPRO-101 runs on a single 19V supply (I use an
old laptop power
supply) while the Thunderbolt needs +5V, +12V, and
-14V. I use a cheap
laptop DC supply to run my LPRO-101 from the shack
12V supply.
3. The output of the LPRO-101 may be fed to the
external reference
input
with no attenuation.
4. The LPRO-101 has relatively low phase noise.
Like I said, I have both but find the LPRO-101 Rb
reference easier to use
and its accuracy still exceeds the tuning accuracy of
the radio.
--
Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL
3191 Western Dr.
Cameron Park, CA 95682
br...@lloyd.com
+1.767.617.1365 (Dominica)
+1.916.877.5067 (USA)
_______________________________________________
FlexRadio Systems Mailing List
FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz
http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz
Archives:
http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/
Knowledge Base: http://kc.flexradio.com/ Homepage:
http://www.flexradio.com/
_______________________________________________
FlexRadio Systems Mailing List
FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz
http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz
Archives:
http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/
Knowledge Base: http://kc.flexradio.com/ Homepage:
http://www.flexradio.com/
_______________________________________________
FlexRadio Systems Mailing List
FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz
http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz
Archives:
http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/
Knowledge Base: http://kc.flexradio.com/ Homepage:
http://www.flexradio.com/
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 16:00:03 -0700
From: Richard Solomon <w1...@earthlink.net>
To: flexradio@flex-radio.biz
Subject: Re: [Flexradio] DIY 10 MHz sources for putting
Flex 5000A
"DEAD ON" orreally close
Message-ID: <512403f3.10...@earthlink.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
My apologies, old age got me again ... it was Lucent not
Agilent.
73, Dick, W1KSZ
On 2/19/2013 3:44 PM, kq...@verizon.net wrote:
I agree with Patrick.
Just type in "rubidium" and you'll get more hits than
you wanted.
73, Jim KQ6EA
On 02/19/13, Richard Solomon<w1...@earthlink.net> wrote:
A while back, over on the "evil empire", they were
selling both the
GPSDO and
RbO that were scrapped out of Agilent systems. The
didn't have the inter-
connect cables, but they were easy to make.
I bought one just to experiment with, but quickly
decided that for my
needs, the
GPSDO was all I needed.
Alas, they seem to have dried up.
73, Dick, W1KSZ
On 2/19/2013 12:59 PM, Jerry Flanders wrote:
> I think the most important thing to remember in the Rb
vs GPSDO debate
> is that without some other standard like a GPSDO or
better to compare
> to or calibrate against, you never know that your Rb
oscillator is
> actually on-freq. The LPRO-101 has an adjustment to
vary its freq. How
> would I know that adjustment pot didn't get jostled
during shipment?
> Lastly, since we know the early Rb units were subject
to failure due
> to aging of the Rb tube, how would I know the one I
was considering
> has much life remaining ?
>
> Bottom line - I would HAVE to be able to
check/calibrate it, but
> against what primary reference?
>
> Without a GPSDO to compare the Rb to, I think buying a
Rb one would be
> a crap-shoot. After thinking it through, I skipped the
Rb step and
> went straight to the GPSDO.
>
> Jerry W4UK
>
> At 11:47 PM 2/18/2013, Brian Lloyd wrote:
>> On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 7:35 PM, Richard Solomon
>> <w1...@earthlink.net
<mailto:w1...@earthlink.net>>wrote:
>>
>> > I also have both (two RbO's and 4 GPSDO's). I'll
take the GPSDO any
>> day.
>> >
>>
>> This is not a, "which one is better," question. It is
a question of
>> what is
>> the job you are trying to do.
>>
>> It is useful to understand the differences. Certainly
the long-term
>> stability of the GPSDO is better because the
reference oscillator is
>> always
>> being corrected back to the correct time, i.e. long
term number of
>> cycles.
>> But in the short term, variations in the GPS
satellite geometry can
>> cause
>> the GPSDO to exhibit short-term frequency errors. Of
course, long-term
>> these are corrected back out but if one was comparing
one would notice
>> small short-term variations in the frequency of the
GPSDO while the RbO
>> showed more stability. So the question is, which is
more important?
>>
>> Of course, could could have a GPS-disciplined Rb
reference. Now you
>> get the
>> best of both worlds, i.e. dead-nuts accurate long
term stability with
>> outstanding short-term stability.
>>
>> And the other thing that many people seem to forget
about is the phase
>> noise of the disciplined reference oscillator. That
may have
substantial
>> effect on the performance of the receiver over and
above the frequency
>> accuracy.
>>
>> So, when it comes to the question of, "which is
better, an Rb reference
>> oscillator or a GPS disciplined oscillator," the
answer is a
resounding,
>> "it depends."
>>
>> I still hold that, for most people looking to
increase the frequency
>> stability and accuracy of their Flex 1500 or 5000, an
Rb reference
>> like the
>> LPRO-101 is simpler for the following reasons:
>>
>> 1. No outside GPS antenna needed.
>> 2. The LPRO-101 runs on a single 19V supply (I use an
old laptop
>> power
>> supply) while the Thunderbolt needs +5V, +12V, and
-14V. I use a
>> cheap
>> laptop DC supply to run my LPRO-101 from the shack
12V supply.
>> 3. The output of the LPRO-101 may be fed to the
external reference
>> input
>> with no attenuation.
>> 4. The LPRO-101 has relatively low phase noise.
>>
>> Like I said, I have both but find the LPRO-101 Rb
reference easier to
>> use
>> and its accuracy still exceeds the tuning accuracy of
the radio.
>>
>> --
>> Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL
>> 3191 Western Dr.
>> Cameron Park, CA 95682
>> br...@lloyd.com <mailto:br...@lloyd.com>
>> +1.767.617.1365 (Dominica)
>> +1.916.877.5067 (USA)
>> _______________________________________________
>> FlexRadio Systems Mailing List
>> FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz
<mailto:FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz>
>>
http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz
>> Archives:
http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/
>> Knowledge Base: http://kc.flexradio.com/ Homepage:
>> http://www.flexradio.com/
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> FlexRadio Systems Mailing List
> FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz
<mailto:FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz>
>
http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz
> Archives:
http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/
> Knowledge Base: http://kc.flexradio.com/ Homepage:
> http://www.flexradio.com/
>
_______________________________________________
FlexRadio Systems Mailing List
FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz
<mailto:FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz>
http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz
Archives:
http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/
Knowledge Base: http://kc.flexradio.com/ Homepage:
http://www.flexradio.com/
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 16:41:17 -0800
From: Brian Lloyd <brian-wb6...@lloyd.com>
To: Jerry Flanders <jefland...@comcast.net>
Cc: FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz
Subject: Re: [Flexradio] DIY 10 MHz sources for putting
Flex 5000A
"DEAD ON" orreally close
Message-ID:
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 11:59 AM, Jerry Flanders
<jefland...@comcast.net>wrote:
I think the most important thing to remember in the Rb
vs GPSDO debate is
that without some other standard like a GPSDO or better
to compare to or
calibrate against, you never know that your Rb
oscillator is actually
on-freq.
Sure you do. Double check it against WWV. If it is
within 1/2 Hz, the Rb is
locked and all is well. If it is unlocked it is very
obvious because the
output frequency sweeps up and down by almost 1kHz. Tune
in WWV and you
will KNOW it is unlocked. Once it locks and WWV is
clear, it is working and
nothing it going to move it off 10MHz.
The LPRO-101 has an adjustment to vary its freq. How
would I know that
adjustment pot didn't get jostled during shipment?
OMG, it could be .015 Hz off if it got turned all the
way to the stops! Yes
the tuning limit is +/- 15 MILLIHERTZ. Remember, the
frequency
determination is fixed by an electron transition in a
shell of the Rubidium
atom. Unlike a crystal oscillator, it can't be very far
off. If it locks up
at all, it will be within 1/2 Hz at 10MHz and quickly
get better than that.
Lastly, since we know the early Rb units were subject to
failure due to
aging of the Rb tube, how would I know the one I was
considering has much
life remaining ?
Measure the lamp voltage. It is a pin on the connector.
More than 7.5V and
it still has lots of life left.
Bottom line - I would HAVE to be able to check/calibrate
it, but against
what primary reference?
And that is the point. You don't. Sure if you want to
get it within 1 mHz
you could tweak it but even without any calibration max
it could be off
after warmup is less that 1/100 of a Hz.
Without a GPSDO to compare the Rb to, I think buying a
Rb one would be a
crap-shoot. After thinking it through, I skipped the Rb
step and went
straight to the GPSDO.
But the GPSDO can be farther off during periods of poor
GPS constellation
geometry.
Bottom line: it pays to understand the technology.
--
Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL
3191 Western Dr.
Cameron Park, CA 95682
br...@lloyd.com
+1.767.617.1365 (Dominica)
+1.916.877.5067 (USA)
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 21:10:29 -0500
From: "William H. Fite" <omni...@gmail.com>
To: Brian Lloyd <brian-wb6...@lloyd.com>
Cc: FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz
Subject: Re: [Flexradio] DIY 10 MHz sources for putting
Flex 5000A
"DEAD ON" orreally close
Message-ID:
<CANy2iXoxSiHas_DqXfPS9=zf8afqbxw1z2e+lftqej8zkac...@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Guys, remember what it said under Brian's picture in his
senior yearbook:
"Pick a side and I'll argue with you."
<ROFL>
On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 7:41 PM, Brian Lloyd
<brian-wb6...@lloyd.com> wrote:
On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 11:59 AM, Jerry Flanders
<jefland...@comcast.net
>wrote:
> I think the most important thing to remember in the Rb
vs GPSDO debate is
> that without some other standard like a GPSDO or
better to compare to or
> calibrate against, you never know that your Rb
oscillator is actually
> on-freq.
Sure you do. Double check it against WWV. If it is
within 1/2 Hz, the Rb is
locked and all is well. If it is unlocked it is very
obvious because the
output frequency sweeps up and down by almost 1kHz. Tune
in WWV and you
will KNOW it is unlocked. Once it locks and WWV is
clear, it is working and
nothing it going to move it off 10MHz.
> The LPRO-101 has an adjustment to vary its freq. How
would I know that
> adjustment pot didn't get jostled during shipment?
OMG, it could be .015 Hz off if it got turned all the
way to the stops! Yes
the tuning limit is +/- 15 MILLIHERTZ. Remember, the
frequency
determination is fixed by an electron transition in a
shell of the Rubidium
atom. Unlike a crystal oscillator, it can't be very far
off. If it locks up
at all, it will be within 1/2 Hz at 10MHz and quickly
get better than that.
> Lastly, since we know the early Rb units were subject
to failure due to
> aging of the Rb tube, how would I know the one I was
considering has much
> life remaining ?
>
Measure the lamp voltage. It is a pin on the connector.
More than 7.5V and
it still has lots of life left.
>
> Bottom line - I would HAVE to be able to
check/calibrate it, but against
> what primary reference?
>
And that is the point. You don't. Sure if you want to
get it within 1 mHz
you could tweak it but even without any calibration max
it could be off
after warmup is less that 1/100 of a Hz.
Without a GPSDO to compare the Rb to, I think buying a
Rb one would be a
> crap-shoot. After thinking it through, I skipped the
Rb step and went
> straight to the GPSDO.
>
But the GPSDO can be farther off during periods of poor
GPS constellation
geometry.
Bottom line: it pays to understand the technology.
--
Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL
3191 Western Dr.
Cameron Park, CA 95682
br...@lloyd.com
+1.767.617.1365 (Dominica)
+1.916.877.5067 (USA)
_______________________________________________
FlexRadio Systems Mailing List
FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz
http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz
Archives:
http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/
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http://www.flexradio.com/
--
I can explain it for you, but I can't comprehend it for
you.
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2013 10:43:25 -0500
From: Bob McGwier <n...@flexradio.com>
To: Mark Lunday <wd4...@triad.rr.com>
Cc: FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz
Subject: Re: [Flexradio] Question about NB1 and NB2, not
working as I
expect it to
Message-ID:
<CAEbRq=2ngq6ggoksukc67+ztp0+ksivotn2yzkrzs8x2bfl...@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Mark:
NB1 and NB2 are intended to aid mitigation of impulsive
noise. NR is
intended to mitigate white noise. The hump does not fit
what this (or most
any other radio) can do in its signal processing.
Bob
N4HY
On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 4:11 PM, Mark Lunday
<wd4...@triad.rr.com> wrote:
I don't normally use these.because of what happens.
I have local conditions that are quiet (-130 dBm, But I
do have a few RFI
sources (still to be located) which generate a 20 kHz
wide "hilltop" of
noise up to -115 dBm. The noise looks like a camel hump
on the panadapter,
and is usually on the CW portion of the 15 meter band
down low, and the 12
meter CW portion as well.
--- snip ---
Mark Lunday, WD4ELG
Greensboro, NC FM06be
wd4...@arrl.net
http://wd4elg.blogspot.com
_______________________________________________
FlexRadio Systems Mailing List
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Archives:
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Knowledge Base: http://kc.flexradio.com/ Homepage:
http://www.flexradio.com/
--
Bob McGwier, N4HY
Flexradio Systems, Inc.
Consultant
------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2013 09:56:36 -0600
From: Graham Haddock <gra...@flexradio.com>
To: Mark Lunday <wd4...@triad.rr.com>
Cc: FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz
Subject: Re: [Flexradio] Question about NB1 and NB2, not
working as I
expect it to
Message-ID:
<CANN_KV6BdnYsEWN=cqtmruw0tnlbccfhua_bz749tjdgrzp...@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Mark:
The "camel hump," as you call it, is the characteristic
noise signature of
a switching power supply. You will be much better off
eliminating that at
its source
than you will be getting poor Bob to write a noise
reduction routine to
reduce it
after it has already trashed the signal you want to
listen to.
The usual suspects are:
The wall wart running your WiFi base station.
The wall wart running your cable modem.
The rectangular in-line power supply running your
laptop.
The rectangular in-line power supply running your
computer monitors.
Any other wall warts or rectangular in-line power
supplies running
stuff in your house.
There is an article in this month's QST describing how
the little power
supply running the LED under-cabinet lighting in the
kitchen was destroying
one ham's reception.
Good luck,
--- Graham / KE9H
==
On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 3:11 PM, Mark Lunday
<wd4...@triad.rr.com> wrote:
I don't normally use these.because of what happens.
I have local conditions that are quiet (-130 dBm, But I
do have a few RFI
sources (still to be located) which generate a 20 kHz
wide "hilltop" of
noise up to -115 dBm. The noise looks like a camel hump
on the panadapter,
and is usually on the CW portion of the 15 meter band
down low, and the 12
meter CW portion as well.
When I turn on NB1 to curb that "camel hump" because I
want to hear weak
signals that are affected in that 20 kHz segment, the
entire noise floor
drops including that "hump", but so do the signals to
the point of being
unreadable. And if there is a strong signal above -115
dBm anywhere in the
band, the noise floor pulses to that signal.especially
if it is CW. Which
renders the NB1 effect useless.
I see a similar but less pronounced behavior when using
NB2.the "hump"
drops
a bit but the noise floor and signals do not drop (good,
but not as good in
eliminating the noise with NB1).but the entire band
pulses if any CW
signals
above -115 dBm are present (obviously not good).
Pre-amp has no impact. Resetting database has no
impact.
Using Flex 3000, SDR 2.5.3. I have noticed this in
earlier versions of
SDR,
which is why I did not use the features. But it has me
wondering about
it.and I would like to use it.
Mark Lunday, WD4ELG
Greensboro, NC FM06be
wd4...@arrl.net
http://wd4elg.blogspot.com
_______________________________________________
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------------------------------
Message: 11
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2013 11:10:18 -0500
From: Bob McGwier <n...@flexradio.com>
To: Dave <rocke...@gmail.com>
Cc: flexradio@flex-radio.biz
Subject: Re: [Flexradio] DIY 10 MHz sources for putting
Flex 5000A
"DEAD ON" orreally close
Message-ID:
<CAEbRq=3c56Xss+SzkKrOxK19jzgUhdLBkhX_ycfiZ0SE7=h...@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Most people don't know that units like the Efratom FRK
"FM" the laser to
keep it on frequency in a simple control loop and this
can cause issues
depending on your use case. The other thing that most
don't realize is
their is a difference between stability and accuracy.
You'd ideally like
both to be great for some things but what most people
From a convenience, power, etc I certainly prefer my
GPSDO's. Ettus makes
a plug in unit for their SDR's and Flex 6700's will have
provision for
inclusion of the GPSDO.
Now if anyone has a spare working Hy Maser.......
I would like to recommend a paper/design for DIY-ish
GPSDO. James Miller,
G3RUH, polymath extraordinaire did this work:
http://www.jrmiller.demon.co.uk/projects/ministd/manual.pdf
Bob
N4HY
On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 10:39 PM, Dave
<rocke...@gmail.com> wrote:
Now a RbO that is GPSDO is the cat's meow.
Like my Trak 9100. Makes a nice time server on the
network as well.
Also have a couple of older Efratom units.
Dave
wo2x
On 2/18/2013 10:35 PM, Richard Solomon wrote:
I also have both (two RbO's and 4 GPSDO's). I'll take
the GPSDO any day.
73, Dick, W1KSZ
______________________________**_________________
FlexRadio Systems Mailing List
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Bob McGwier, N4HY
Flexradio Systems, Inc.
Consultant
------------------------------
Message: 12
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2013 11:11:20 -0500
From: Bob McGwier <n...@flexradio.com>
To: Graham Haddock <gra...@flexradio.com>
Cc: FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz
Subject: Re: [Flexradio] Question about NB1 and NB2, not
working as I
expect it to
Message-ID:
<CAEbRq=1rVN0yqMPA_yA2Wcs4jeNBuCivv7Q0Xutw6iZGJmb=w...@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Amen to all of this.
On Wed, Feb 20, 2013 at 10:56 AM, Graham Haddock
<gra...@flexradio.com>wrote:
Mark:
The "camel hump," as you call it, is the characteristic
noise signature of
a switching power supply. You will be much better off
eliminating that at
its source
than you will be getting poor Bob to write a noise
reduction routine to
reduce it
after it has already trashed the signal you want to
listen to.
The usual suspects are:
The wall wart running your WiFi base station.
The wall wart running your cable modem.
The rectangular in-line power supply running your
laptop.
The rectangular in-line power supply running your
computer monitors.
Any other wall warts or rectangular in-line power
supplies running
stuff in your house.
There is an article in this month's QST describing how
the little power
supply running the LED under-cabinet lighting in the
kitchen was destroying
one ham's reception.
Good luck,
--- Graham / KE9H
==
On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 3:11 PM, Mark Lunday
<wd4...@triad.rr.com> wrote:
I don't normally use these.because of what happens.
I have local conditions that are quiet (-130 dBm, But I
do have a few RFI
sources (still to be located) which generate a 20 kHz
wide "hilltop" of
noise up to -115 dBm. The noise looks like a camel hump
on the
panadapter,
and is usually on the CW portion of the 15 meter band
down low, and the 12
meter CW portion as well.
When I turn on NB1 to curb that "camel hump" because I
want to hear weak
signals that are affected in that 20 kHz segment, the
entire noise floor
drops including that "hump", but so do the signals to
the point of being
unreadable. And if there is a strong signal above -115
dBm anywhere in
the
band, the noise floor pulses to that signal.especially
if it is CW. Which
renders the NB1 effect useless.
I see a similar but less pronounced behavior when using
NB2.the "hump"
drops
a bit but the noise floor and signals do not drop (good,
but not as good
in
eliminating the noise with NB1).but the entire band
pulses if any CW
signals
above -115 dBm are present (obviously not good).
Pre-amp has no impact. Resetting database has no
impact.
Using Flex 3000, SDR 2.5.3. I have noticed this in
earlier versions of
SDR,
which is why I did not use the features. But it has me
wondering about
it.and I would like to use it.
Mark Lunday, WD4ELG
Greensboro, NC FM06be
wd4...@arrl.net
http://wd4elg.blogspot.com
_______________________________________________
FlexRadio Systems Mailing List
FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz
http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz
Archives:
http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/
Knowledge Base: http://kc.flexradio.com/ Homepage:
http://www.flexradio.com/
--
Bob McGwier, N4HY
Flexradio Systems, Inc.
Consultant
------------------------------
Message: 13
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2013 08:15:41 -0800 (PST)
From: Burt <k1...@yahoo.com>
To: Mark Lunday <wd4...@triad.rr.com>, Graham Haddock
<gra...@flexradio.com>
Cc: FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz
Subject: Re: [Flexradio] Question about NB1 and NB2, not
working as I
expect it to
Message-ID:
<1361376941.12443.yahoomailclas...@web120503.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Why is it my Flex 5000 picks up the camel hump in 160
meters but my Hallicrafters S-76 does not. Same antenna.
It is the wifi/modem
--- On Wed, 2/20/13, Graham Haddock
<gra...@flexradio.com> wrote:
Mark:
The "camel hump," as you call it, is the characteristic
noise signature of
a switching power supply.? You will be much better off
eliminating that at
its source
than you will be getting poor Bob to write a noise
reduction routine to
reduce it
after it has already trashed the signal you want to
listen to.
The usual suspects are:
? ???The wall wart running your WiFi base station.
? ???The wall wart running your cable modem.
? ???The rectangular in-line power supply running your
laptop.
? ???The rectangular in-line power supply running your
computer monitors.
? ???Any other wall warts or rectangular in-line power
supplies running
stuff in your house.
There is an article in this month's QST describing how
the little power
supply running the LED under-cabinet lighting in the
kitchen was destroying
one ham's reception.
Good luck,
--- Graham / KE9H
==
On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 3:11 PM, Mark Lunday
<wd4...@triad.rr.com> wrote:
I don't normally use these.because of what happens.
I have local conditions that are quiet (-130 dBm,? But I
do have a few RFI
sources (still to be located) which generate a 20 kHz
wide "hilltop" of
noise up to -115 dBm.? The noise looks like a camel hump
on the panadapter,
and is usually on the CW portion of the 15 meter band
down low, and the 12
meter CW portion as well.
When I turn on NB1 to curb that "camel hump" because I
want to hear weak
signals that are affected in that 20 kHz segment, the
entire noise floor
drops including that "hump", but so do the signals to
the point of being
unreadable.? And if there is a strong signal above -115
dBm anywhere in the
band, the noise floor pulses to that signal.especially
if it is CW.? Which
renders the NB1 effect useless.
I see a similar but less pronounced behavior when using
NB2.the "hump"
drops
a bit but the noise floor and signals do not drop (good,
but not as good in
eliminating the noise with NB1).but the entire band
pulses if any CW
signals
above -115 dBm are present (obviously not good).
Pre-amp has no impact.? Resetting database has no
impact.
Using Flex 3000, SDR 2.5.3.? I have noticed this in
earlier versions of
SDR,
which is why I did not use the features.? But it has me
wondering about
it.and I would like to use it.
Mark Lunday, WD4ELG
Greensboro, NC? FM06be
wd4...@arrl.net
http://wd4elg.blogspot.com
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Archives:
http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/
Knowledge Base: http://kc.flexradio.com/? Homepage:
http://www.flexradio.com/
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http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz
Archives:
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Knowledge Base: http://kc.flexradio.com/? Homepage:
http://www.flexradio.com/
------------------------------
Message: 14
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2013 11:16:38 -0500
From: "Mark Lunday" <wd4...@triad.rr.com>
To: "'Bob McGwier'" <n...@flexradio.com>, "'Graham
Haddock'"
<gra...@flexradio.com>
Cc: FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz
Subject: Re: [Flexradio] Question about NB1 and NB2, not
working as I
expect it to
Message-ID: <005101ce0f85$a948a360$fbd9ea20$@rr.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Thanks, all. I will do some research to find the power
supply source. The
interesting thing is that it is NOT present right now,
11:00 AM local.
Mark Lunday, WD4ELG
Greensboro, NC FM06be
wd4...@arrl.net
http://wd4elg.blogspot.com
------------------------------
Message: 15
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2013 11:51:16 -0500
From: "Mark Lunday" <wd4...@triad.rr.com>
To: "'Mark Lunday'" <wd4...@triad.rr.com>, "'Bob
McGwier'"
<n...@flexradio.com>, "'Graham Haddock'"
<gra...@flexradio.com>
Cc: FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz
Subject: Re: [Flexradio] Question about NB1 and NB2, not
working as I
expect it to
Message-ID: <000301ce0f8a$802f2580$808d7080$@rr.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Ahh, I spoke too soon. The noise IS there, I was
looking in the wrong
place. It moves.
It's there, 21095 to 21115, and slowly moving up in
frequency, about 1 Khz a
minute. And 21975 to 21995, approaching the CW portion
of the 15 meter
band. And 21225 to 21245.
Almost square waveform with three small peaks.one at
each end and one in the
middle. I tried unplugging all the wall wart switching
PS, no luck yet.
On 12 meters, the noise is more spread out, over 30 kHz
and not as strong.
It's there on 10, but spread out over 40 kHz.
Present on 17 meters, 15 kHz wide square with two peaks.
On 20 it is 10 kHz
wide, but weaker than on 17. No sign on 30 or 40, but I
will check tonight.
Will keep searching in the house for the source. What
confounds me is that
the source moves. If it was stationary it would make
more sense to me.
Mark Lunday, WD4ELG
Greensboro, NC FM06be
wd4...@arrl.net
http://wd4elg.blogspot.com
From: Mark Lunday [mailto:wd4...@triad.rr.com]
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2013 11:17 AM
To: 'Bob McGwier'; 'Graham Haddock'
Cc: 'FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz'
Subject: RE: [Flexradio] Question about NB1 and NB2, not
working as I expect
it to
Thanks, all. I will do some research to find the power
supply source. The
interesting thing is that it is NOT present right now,
11:00 AM local.
Mark Lunday, WD4ELG
Greensboro, NC FM06be
wd4...@arrl.net
http://wd4elg.blogspot.com
------------------------------
Subject: Digest Footer
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------------------------------
End of FlexRadio Digest, Vol 94, Issue 17
*****************************************
