Here's one for your guys. Do any nasal errors pop up on the console when
things go bad? Are you able to manually fly the f-14b (non-uas version)
around just fine?
Once in maybe 20-50 flights I do see something go goofy with the f-14b
stability augmentation's roll control. Maybe this same issue is popping up
less rarely for some people? I haven't dug into how the SAS is implemented
on the f-14b ... it's intricately woven I can tell ... maybe there's
something lurking down in the guts of the f-14b SAS.
Curt.
On Fri, Sep 23, 2011 at 8:35 PM, Arnt Karlsen <a...@c2i.net> wrote:
> On Fri, 23 Sep 2011 23:44:02 +0200, Citronnier wrote in message
> <4e7cfda2.7060...@gmail.com>:
>
> > Le 23/09/2011 23:12, Curtis Olson a écrit :
> > > Geoff and Arnt and anyone else who is interested. I just updated
> > > the zip file overlay with a few changes.
> > >
> > > Geoff: you may be getting tired of being a bunny, but I played
> > > around with the roll controller and limited max target roll angle
> > > to +/-35 degrees. I also dialed down the gains a bit on final
> > > approach which will hopefully slow down the wild swings. More
> > > adjustment may be necessary, but I'd be interested in hearing if
> > > any of this helps your situation.
>
> ..a wee bit, now takes off and makes it ~1000 feet up, then it rolls
> to the right and makes it ~200 feet into the drink, and repeats the
> stunt seated in the cockpit (rather than in the camera), uncommanded
> on Reset button pushes.
>
> ..it's trying to orbit the carrier in the vertical plane?
>
> ..trying the operator click mode on targets like the merchantman
> near the Nimitz, works, until the demo is airborne, then it picks
> the Carrier target and tries a vertical orbit around it.
>
> ..refetching the merchantman with the operator mouse click mode,
> dives the demo into the drink between the 2 vessels.
>
> ..debug idea for Curtis: try the Nimitz too.
>
> > >
> > > I also set the default carrier speed to zero so if we get a few
> > > people out there playing around with this, we should be able to see
> > > each other via MP. That could be an additional fun element. I was
> > > just out there dodging XIII who trailed me around the pattern and
> > > let me live thankfully. :-)
> > >
> > > Here is the link with the zip file overlay download + installation
> > > and operation instructions:
> > >
> > > http://www.flightgear.org/uas-demo/
> > >
> > > MP Call Sign: Shrike :-)
> > >
> >
> > Woot :-) so I missed the update, I just read this post after posting
> > the previous one. And was wondering who was flying around there !
> > Model view ought to be interesting in case of one other tester just
> > encounter problems.
> >
> > Greetings,
> >
> > Alexis
> >
> > > Maybe see a few of you out there?
> > >
> > > Curt.
> > >
> > >
> > > On Fri, Sep 23, 2011 at 1:12 PM, Citronnier - Alexis Bory wrote:
> > >
> > > Le 23/09/2011 16:47, Curtis Olson a écrit :
> > > > Hi Geoff,
> > > >
> > > > I'm starting to run low on ideas here. I assume you don't
> > > > have any crazy/severe turbulence turned on or your plots
> > > > would be all
> > > over the
> > > > place. Are you running out of fuel and your engines dying?
> > > > If you open the autopilot dialog (F11) you can see the target
> > > > speed and if you have the hud turned on you can see the
> > > > actual speed in any view. If you are circling with a target
> > > > speed of 150 and your airspeed is less than than and you are
> > > > decending, then definitely check your engine output. There
> > > > is a fuel dialog box under the f-14b menu and you might
> > > > double check that to see if you have any fuel in your
> > > tanks.
> > > >
> > > > For what it's worth, I'm rock solid in circling and the only
> > > > time I have ever stalled out of the sky or really got out of
> > > > kilter is when I've had severe turbulence turned on.
> > > > Moderate turbulence at all levels is actually pretty
> > > > interesting because despite getting thrown all over the sky,
> > > > I still hit the carrier deck pretty spot on
> > > every time.
> > > >
> > > > Curt.
> > > >
> > > Still no tests yet but just a though, In normal use (without
> > > the UAV script) I know that after TO (flaps down) you have to rise
> > > the flaps in
> > > before engaging the attitude autopilot mode. If you rise the
> > > flaps after
> > > engaging attitude autopilot mode, the a/c start to pitch up
> > > consistently. This has to be documented or fixed. I'll try to
> > > bring the
> > > maintainer to his workstation ASAP.
> > >
> > > Alexis
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > On Fri, Sep 23, 2011 at 9:35 AM, Geoff McLane wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hi Curt,
> > > >
> > > > Ok, removed my joystick, and entered a '5', but
> > > > still crashed while just in 'circle' mode - no route
> > > > entered ;=((
> > > >
> > > > As usual Atlas provides a good 'view' as to
> > > > what happened - added -
> > > > ATLAS="--atlas=socket,out,<IP>,5500,udp"
> > > > to output to Atlas running in a 2nd machine...
> > > >
> > > > See -
> > > > http://geoffair.org/tmp/uas-01.jpg
> > > > for a graph of the flight...
> > > >
> > > > The two blips in the graphs show the first stall,
> > > > but it recovers and begins to climb back, and the
> > > > 2nd the second stall, this time too low to recover,
> > > > so into the drink ;=(( CRASH!
> > > >
> > > > This is a view of the 'crazy' flight track
> > > > http://geoffair.org/tmp/uas-02.jpg
> > > >
> > > > Obviously the pig-tail loops are the 'stalls'...
> > > > remember with NO joystick attached and starting
> > > > with centered controls (NumPad 5)...
> > > >
> > > > And if you want to load this track into Atlas, or
> > > > further study speeds, etc, then this is the
> > > > Atlas track data :-
> > > > http://geoffair.org/tmp/uas-01.txt
> > > >
> > > > Then on the NEXT flight I tried :-
> > > > IO="--generic=file,out,10,uas-02.csv,playback"
> > > >
> > > > Then I added a header line, to help analyze
> > > > it in say an OpenOffice spreadsheet import -
> > > > see -
> > > >
> > > > http://geoffair.org/tmp/uas-02.csv
> > > >
> > > > On this 2nd flight, this crash took longer, since
> > > > it (randomly) turned left first, where as mentioned
> > > > it holds more stable, but then eventually went into a
> > > > right turn, stalled, recovered, stalled again, and
> > > > CRASHED...
> > > >
> > > > And as you know well, downloading this file, and
> > > > using say -
> > > >
> > > > $ ./fgfs --fg-root=/point/to/fgfs/data --timeofday=noon \
> > > > --aircraft=f-14b-uas --carrier=Vinson \
> > > > --generic=file,in,10,uas-02.csv,playback --fdm=external
> > > >
> > > > you too can enjoy this fateful flight ;=))
> > > >
> > > > In 'chase' view, you can clearly see the right roll
> > > > increase, the nose coming up, and the stall, recovery,
> > > > then repeated, and BANG, into the water...
> > > >
> > > > I know it is difficult to work on, debug, fix
> > > > something that obviously does not happen in your
> > > > case...
> > > >
> > > > Maybe if you do not enter any route, or something...
> > > >
> > > > And this is all with SG/FG git of 2011-09-14...
> > > >
> > > > Any other ideas?
> > > >
> > > > Regards,
> > > > Geoff.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Thu, 2011-09-22 at 14:00 -0500, Curtis Olson wrote:
> > > > > On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 1:25 PM, Geoff McLane wrote:
> > > > > Hi Curt,
> > > > >
> > > > > A pleasure, and FUN ;=))
> > > > >
> > > > > Yes, I know a low frame rate can play havoc when
> > > > > you are trying to fine control an aircraft from
> > > > > its attitude feedback, and I should have mentioned
> > > > > my rate, but is always in the high 50-70 fps range in this
> > > > > Ubuntu machine... so should NOT be a factor...
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Ok, 50-70 should be perfect.
> > > > >
> > > > > I just did another few runs, and this time it
> > > > > crashed just while circling... it was in a right bank, which
> > > > > got too much and the nose came up, and it stalled...
> > > > > I am mostly in the 'chase' view...
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > This is really strange. I have seen nothing like this
> > > > > except
> > > when I
> > > > > inadvertantly applied external control inputs through a
> > > > > strange combination of linux virtual desktops and
> > > > > flightgear capturing the hotkey to come back to the
> > > > > FlightGear virtual desktop.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > So two thoughts here. If you have a joystick connected,
> > > > > could
> > > > you try
> > > > > unplugging it to see if that helps? Could you also press
> > > > > "5"
> > > on the
> > > > > numeric keypad to make sure all the flight control inputs
> > > > > are centered. Because of the way the F-14b FCS is wired
> > > > > together in combination with the yasim flight surfaces, you
> > > > > can still input elevator and aileron and trim and cause
> > > > > conflicts that you
> > > might not
> > > > > see in other simpler aircraft that use aileron and elevator
> > > > directly.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > The first time this happened at 2000 feet, it caught
> > > > > itself - leveled a bit and bumped the throttles, and
> > > > > began climbing back...
> > > > >
> > > > > But a little later, 20-30 secs, it happened again,
> > > > > and this time was still too low to recover, and SPLASH...
> > > > >
> > > > > I had not previously let it fly in the 'circle' mode
> > > > > for too long, but now note if I leave it in circling
> > > > > mode, it will eventually end up in the water...
> > > > > seldom lasts more than 5 or 10 minutes...
> > > > >
> > > > > You seem to be deliberately holding its speed down
> > > > > around 150 - I see air-brakes come up when greater
> > > > > than this, and throttle back - and although flaps
> > > > > (I think full flap?) are still applied, 150 must be quite
> > > > > 'low' for this sleek bird...
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Normal landing approach in the real aircraft I believe is
> > > about 120
> > > > > kts? I fly 135 kt approaches in the simulator. It should
> > > > > be
> > > > able to
> > > > > hold 150 kts with the flaps down pretty easily. The point
> > > > > of
> > > > slowing
> > > > > way down when circling is to keep the circle radius small
> > > enough so
> > > > > you can see what you are looking at. If you fly the circle
> > > > > at 600 kts, your radius will be 20 miles (just
> > > > > guessing) :-) and you
> > > > won't be
> > > > > able to see anything.
> > > > >
> > > > > And I am not sure how many degrees each marking on
> > > > > the hud bottom bank indicator represents, and while
> > > > > it starts the banking in between the 1 and 2 of the 'big'
> > > > marks,
> > > > > at the stall point it is beyond the 2nd big mark,
> > > > approaching,
> > > > > even reaching the 3rd big mark, which is on the
> > > > > horizontal - ie 90 degrees!
> > > > >
> > > > > At the moment of stall it loses 1200-1400 feet in
> > > > > 1-3 seconds... while it can happen in a right or left turn,
> > > > > it does seem to happen quicker in a right turn...
> > > > >
> > > > > I now understand the 'reset' is a full sim reset,
> > > > > but that is not too helpful if you have set up say a
> > > > > particular weather, wind or something that you want
> > > > > to repeat... must get around to feeding that in, in
> > > > > the command, so a reset puts it back (I hope)...
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Well complain to the developers if a "reset" resets too
> > > > > agressively. :-)
> > > > >
> > > > > If you could describe a bit more where some of this
> > > > > is decided/calculated I too could try tweaking some
> > > > > values...
> > > > >
> > > > > I would probably bump the speed a little, and really
> > > > > watch the bank angle... those stubby little wings do
> > > > > not give much lift anyway, but the slender body
> > > > > gives close to none ;=))
> > > > >
> > > > > As mentioned, I too have more than a passing
> > > > > interest in automated flight control...
> > > > >
> > > > > Regards,
> > > > > Geoff.
> > > > >
> > > > > PS: OT: I too searched a little for the expression
> > > > > to be a 'bunny', but could not really find anything ;=((
> > > > >
> > > > > I am sure it comes from my Australian origin, and
> > > > > has the meaning to take the rap, take the medicine,
> > > > > sort of to be the guinea pig...
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Ok, I can understand that. Here we test cosmetics on little
> > > bunnies
> > > > > (so I'm told) but I'm sure we have to shave all their hair
> > > > > off
> > > > first.
> > > > >
> > > > > Why poor little bunny rabbits feature I just do
> > > > > not know ;=))
> > > > >
> > > > > Maybe from when Australia had a big war on
> > > > > rabbits _MANY_ years ago, and put out millions
> > > > > of traps for the bunnies, as well as other methods,
> > > > > like poisons - myxomatosis...
> > > > >
> > > > > So to be a bunny was to be trapped ;=(())
> > > > >
> > > > > Maybe other Australian's have a better memory than
> > > > > me, and can explain it better, but meantime I will blame
> > > > > my parents, or the Australian educational system,
> > > > > for giving me such a stupid expression ;=()
> > > > >
> > > > > On reading up on 'to be a Guinea Pig', another
> > > > > very confusing expression - not really a 'pig' and
> > > > > not from Guinea! - I found a reference that in Johnston's
> > > > > Natural History, they go by the name Spanish Coney.
> > > > > And 'coney' was the old name for a rabbit, a bunny... Huh!
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > In Peru Guinea Pig is a delicacy ... cui ... never had it
> > > > > myself
> > > > that
> > > > > I'm aware of.
> > > > >
> > > > > Maybe the early immigrants to Australia decided to
> > > > > mix it up even more! ;=)) Or got it confused on the long
> > > > > boat ride half way around the world...
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Well just to summarize, if your frame rates are solid in the
> > > 30-60+
> > > > > range, then the next thing I'm wondering about is a
> > > > > joystick or
> > > > other
> > > > > means of extraneous control inputs that could be confusing
> > > > > the
> > > F-14b
> > > > > AFCS.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks,
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Curt.
> > > > > --
> > > > > Curtis Olson:
> > > > > http://www.atiak.com - http://aem.umn.edu/~uav/
> > > <http://aem.umn.edu/%7Euav/>
> > > > <http://aem.umn.edu/%7Euav/>
> > > > > http://www.flightgear.org - http://gallinazo.flightgear.org
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > All of the data generated in your IT infrastructure is
> > > > seriously valuable.
> > > > Why? It contains a definitive record of application
> > > > performance, security
> > > > threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this
> > > data and
> > > > makes
> > > > sense of it. IT sense. And common sense.
> > > > http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-d2dcopy2
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Flightgear-devel mailing list
> > > > Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > <mailto:Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net>
> > > > <mailto:Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > <mailto:Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net>>
> > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Curtis Olson:
> > > > http://www.atiak.com - http://aem.umn.edu/~uav/
> > > <http://aem.umn.edu/%7Euav/>
> > > > <http://aem.umn.edu/%7Euav/>
> > > > http://www.flightgear.org - http://gallinazo.flightgear.org
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > All of the data generated in your IT infrastructure is
> > > > seriously
> > > valuable.
> > > > Why? It contains a definitive record of application
> > > > performance,
> > > security
> > > > threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this data
> > > and makes
> > > > sense of it. IT sense. And common sense.
> > > > http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-d2dcopy2
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Flightgear-devel mailing list
> > > > Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > <mailto:Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net>
> > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
> > >
> > >
> > >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > All of the data generated in your IT infrastructure is seriously
> > > valuable.
> > > Why? It contains a definitive record of application performance,
> > > security
> > > threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this data
> > > and makes
> > > sense of it. IT sense. And common sense.
> > > http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-d2dcopy2
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Flightgear-devel mailing list
> > > Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > <mailto:Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net>
> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Curtis Olson:
> > > http://www.atiak.com - http://aem.umn.edu/~uav/
> > > <http://aem.umn.edu/%7Euav/>
> > > http://www.flightgear.org - http://gallinazo.flightgear.org
> > >
> > >
> > >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > All of the data generated in your IT infrastructure is seriously
> > > valuable. Why? It contains a definitive record of application
> > > performance, security threats, fraudulent activity, and more.
> > > Splunk takes this data and makes sense of it. IT sense. And common
> > > sense. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-d2dcopy2
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Flightgear-devel mailing list
> > > Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
> >
> >
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > All of the data generated in your IT infrastructure is seriously
> > valuable. Why? It contains a definitive record of application
> > performance, security threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk
> > takes this data and makes sense of it. IT sense. And common sense.
> > http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-d2dcopy2
> > _______________________________________________
> > Flightgear-devel mailing list
> > Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> All of the data generated in your IT infrastructure is seriously valuable.
> Why? It contains a definitive record of application performance, security
> threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this data and makes
> sense of it. IT sense. And common sense.
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-d2dcopy2
> _______________________________________________
> Flightgear-devel mailing list
> Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
>
--
Curtis Olson:
http://www.atiak.com - http://aem.umn.edu/~uav/
http://www.flightgear.org - http://gallinazo.flightgear.org
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
All of the data generated in your IT infrastructure is seriously valuable.
Why? It contains a definitive record of application performance, security
threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this data and makes
sense of it. IT sense. And common sense.
http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-d2dcopy2
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