Hello, here is the log of the meeting we held today as a first measure to formalize future scenery development processes. I deleted any mail adresses for privacy reasons.
Cheers Chris [17:26:58] <MartinSpott> I'm just interested in the log, thus if you prefer to chat on 'your' server, then I'm completely satisfied if you'd create a log [17:27:12] <papillon81> MartinSpott: that's planned anyway, yes [17:27:46] <MartinSpott> Ok, then you'd better save your time and use your favourite server [17:28:02] <papillon81> now we are almost all here [17:28:17] <MartinSpott> Ah, I was just about to leave :-) [17:28:30] <itchi_> arf :/ [17:28:42] <papillon81> whatever [17:28:45] <papillon81> let's start [17:28:47] <MartinSpott> Really, I just interested in the log [17:29:27] <itchi_> MartinSpott: There where a few that had some questions [17:30:01] <itchi_> Maybe time to start no? Not that i have any particular question [17:30:25] <itchi_> MartinSpott: BTW, i'm David Van Mosselbeen (if you have read my mail on the devlist) [17:30:30] <Blackiris> Yeah, ok [17:31:28] <ysablonier> MartinSpott: Is there a tracker for issues/task world scenery related? [17:32:54] <MartinSpott> Don't know, I didn't create any tracker [17:32:57] <-> ysablonier heißt jetzt gral [17:33:00] <gral> So. [17:33:55] <MartinSpott> If you'd like to track Scenery issues, I think the bug-tracker @ Google is the place you're looking for [17:34:16] <MartinSpott> At least that's the only one I've been monitoring occasionally [17:34:23] <Blackiris> Martin: do you have at least some todo list about world scenery tasks? [17:34:54] <gral> My proposal is to open another tracker for the World Scenery Project, more for the tasks [17:35:36] <papillon81> gral: i'd say a scenery specific tracker, which includes issues in TG and in the released scenery [17:35:50] <MartinSpott> I'm having _my_ todo list concerning the land cover vectors. Aside from that, you'll find a couple of requests on the -devel mailing list [17:36:45] <MartinSpott> Olivier has picked up one of the items, but as far as I know most of the requests passed unheard [17:37:17] <gral> Can I make you the owner of http://code.google.com/p/flightgear-world-scenery/ , temporary ? [17:37:20] <Blackiris> Maybe they should be written somewhere such as the wiki [17:38:00] <gral> http://wiki.flightgear.org/World_Scenery_2.0_Project [17:38:27] <MartinSpott> gral: If you're asking me, I'm certainly not taking any ownership ;-) [17:39:40] <gral> This was TO ALL ;-) [17:39:40] <MartinSpott> I'm in the process of cleaning up by backlog so whoever might want to continue will get the stuff a moderately clean state [17:40:25] <papillon81> MartinSpott: what would "stuff" be in this case? [17:41:12] <MartinSpott> Past Scenemodels submissions with open issues [17:41:43] <MartinSpott> Writing yet another reminder about the airfield collection [17:42:08] <MartinSpott> Chatting with GIS people about possible improvements in GRASS [17:42:25] <MartinSpott> Building recent PostGIS SVN on Solaris [17:43:06] <MartinSpott> Adding comments to the various (Shell) scripts and updating the sceneryweb and terragear-cs GIT repos accordingly [17:43:19] <psadro1> Martin, I'm a bit concerned about mapserver.flightgear.org. This is pretty much your domain as well, correct? [17:44:01] <MartinSpott> yup, I had very little support there :-) [17:44:20] <itchi_> For my Belgium scenery, one of the main reasons i host them on Gitorious is that the airport layouts aren't right. Some are completely non-accurate with +-300m off. And some other are just missing some essential runway. So i'm a bit lost i must admit [17:44:48] <MartinSpott> Adrian recently added some features to the web map, but aside from that I think it's my own playground [17:45:02] <psadro1> Is this your server? [17:45:11] <MartinSpott> Don't expect me to join any sort of discussion about the private sceneries [17:45:15] <itchi_> Well, i worry about EBSG and EBTY, because they are on of my favorite fields which i visited and like to fly there in FG :) Even if i didn't fly there in real life :) [17:45:42] <MartinSpott> psadro1: No, sponsored hardware and bandwidth in San Diego UCSD and Calit2 [17:45:55] <itchi_> They aren't meant to be private at all. But if i push my airport objects, you will be on the wrong side of te airfield :/ [17:46:12] <MartinSpott> psadro1: Actually that's not just one server. [17:46:21] <MartinSpott> One four-socket DB server on Solaris [17:46:22] <papillon81> MartinSpott: if I see this correctly, gral is working on some mapserver project, too. would you hand over the ressources to a person you trust? [17:46:36] <MartinSpott> One web frontend (4 cores) on Linux [17:46:38] <itchi_> I like to take up an aircraft at a hangar, take off... and do my stuff, and set back the aircraft where i took it :) [17:46:58] <MartinSpott> A supplemental TileCache running on a dedicated machine, but not being used exclusively for FG stuff [17:47:12] <psadro1> that's a relief. I was a bit panicked about it when I read your mail on the devel list. Certainly, someone is going to have to step up to the plate on maintaining that. [17:47:56] <MartinSpott> psadro1: I'll be the one to maintain the ifrastructure, that's tied to my name and I won't tear it down [17:48:02] <MartinSpott> But I won't maintain content [17:48:10] <psadro1> understood [17:48:52] <MartinSpott> The effort is closely related to OSGeo - where I'm listed as one of the primary sysadmins [17:49:34] <Blackiris> MartinSpott:I'm quite concerned about http://scenemodels.flightgear.org. Are you alone checking the submissions right now? [17:49:42] <MartinSpott> The ressources in San Diego are unbeatable, not only the hardware but also the net connection [17:50:17] <MartinSpott> They're having 1 Gbit/s in the LAN - at minimum - and 10 Gbit/s to 30 Gbit/s uplink [17:50:51] <papillon81> yes, without this infra we'd be screwed [17:51:12] <MartinSpott> Is JonS around ? [17:51:38] <MartinSpott> Mmmmh [17:51:41] <papillon81> Nav: ^ [17:52:31] <itchi_> MartinSpott: He was on the other side [17:52:32] <Nav> ? [17:52:43] <MartinSpott> He's done almost everything of the Scenemodels web page and he's been taking care of mass imports (windmills, navaids and the like) [17:52:46] <papillon81> MartinSpott: about the apt.dat collection (810): i'd like to take the changed airport list and compare them to the latest 850 versions from Robin [17:53:44] <MartinSpott> papillon81: Everyone's free to do so, I just maintained to collection to make sure the airfield layouts don't bit-rot [17:53:53] <Blackiris> Ok, I'm used to send my models only to you [17:54:14] <Nav> you can mail them to me too [17:54:32] <MartinSpott> I think I've been checking and committing the vast majority of the static models in the past [17:54:33] <Nav> turnaround will depend on how much other stuff I've got to do [17:54:36] <MartinSpott> Correct, Jon ? [17:54:54] <Nav> I think lots have just been uploaded to your ftp repo [17:55:28] <MartinSpott> No, there was just very little traffic on FTP, most of the stuff was sent via EMail [17:55:30] <Nav> people can speed up the process though by ensuring they submit things in the recommended way [17:55:37] <Nav> ah, ok [17:55:51] <MartinSpott> Geoff, is that you ? [17:56:01] <geoff__> Yup! [17:56:13] <MartinSpott> Hah :-) [17:56:22] <Blackiris> Btw, Jon and Martin, what are the most issues you met about models? [17:56:29] <Blackiris> most common* [17:56:55] <MartinSpott> Spaces in filenames, missing textures, ambiguous texture filenames, ignorant submitters .... [17:56:59] <Nav> having to repack stuff can be time consuming [17:57:04] <MartinSpott> I reverse order [17:57:35] <Nav> the best way to submit is an stg, a thumbnail, and a tgz containing all of your model [17:57:48] <Nav> packing it in a zip file is annoying [17:57:57] <Nav> packing the thumbnail in the archive is also annoying [17:58:10] <Nav> wrong texture dimensions - annoying :-) [17:58:28] <Nav> ideally we want to do a quick sanity check on the model tarball, and throw it straight into the db [17:58:45] <MartinSpott> I've never understood why people have been keeping models on their disks for months until they submitted a large scenario instead of sending an EMail with just one model whenever they had one ready [17:59:00] <Nav> it makes things easier for us, and results in quicker turnaround for you [17:59:36] <itchi_> MartinSpott: For my part, it's due the airport layouts that doesn't match the real life. Maintaining two different sceneries is impossible to do [17:59:48] <gorilla> MartinSpott: some people don't get "release early, release often" [17:59:50] <Nav> when people replace an existing generic model it also really helps if you can identify the one you're replacing - it can take a LONG time to work it out sometimes [17:59:53] <Blackiris> ok, thanks for that (btw, Blackiris = Julien Nguyen) [17:59:56] <MartinSpott> Nav: Now that' s/we/I/ [18:00:20] <Nav> :-) [18:00:25] <Blackiris> In http://scenemodels.flightgear.org/contribute.php, I don't see anything about texture dimensions [18:00:53] <Nav> Blackiris: you'll get a warning every time the texture loads - is that not enough? :-) [18:01:10] <Blackiris> (now, my models used pow of 2 but I didn't know before) [18:01:19] <Blackiris> yeah, that's why I changed it [18:01:23] <Blackiris> but no one told me [18:01:33] <Nav> I thought that was in one of the readmes [18:01:45] <MartinSpott> Nav: I think it isn't [18:01:56] <Nav> ah, ok [18:02:05] <itchi_> The contribute page should maybe add a few links to good modeling practices wiki page (they exist already anyway) [18:02:14] <gral> Nav: Is there a form coming up for submission right now or am I mixing things up ? [18:02:31] -*- gral submission by email, wow! [18:02:31] <Blackiris> Olivier is working on I think [18:02:35] <Nav> I think someone was working on one [18:02:37] <MartinSpott> Depends a bit on the cleverness of the respective submitter - some simply don't read responses or error messages, they're similar to my customers :-) [18:02:44] <Nav> heh [18:03:30] <Nav> I've also got a script that sanity checks a few things - that should probably be extended, and published so people can check their own models before submitting [18:03:56] <Blackiris> In the contribution page, maybe using bold to emphasize important rules) [18:04:10] <gorilla> Nav: and checked again by the server :-) [18:04:11] -*- Nav bolds the entire page [18:04:15] <papillon81> Nav: better yet, put that on the server and let it check submissions automatically [18:04:15] <gral> :-) [18:04:23] <MartinSpott> itchi_: "should" alone doesn't work [18:04:30] <itchi_> MartinSpott & Nav: I really think the submittion should reject the stuff wich isn't compliant. That for the own good of Flightgear and to spare your time. [18:04:37] <MartinSpott> The page is on GIT now, someone just has to do it [18:05:01] <Nav> well it's something I ran on new submissions, and we don't currently have an upload system to bolt it to, but when one exists, yes, we'll try to add it [18:05:12] <itchi_> When they are motivated, they will fix the issues. If not, then it's probably not worth to add it anyway [18:05:47] <Nav> sadly the days when I had time to fix peoples models before importing them are long gone [18:06:15] <itchi_> Yeah, i can imagine that there's lot's of things to fix :/ [18:06:16] <gorilla> the more you fix, the ways people find to break something. [18:06:28] <MartinSpott> As Thorsten R wrote, there seems to be no ressource pool to tap, therefore I put the stuff onto GIT so people don't have excuses any more [18:06:34] <gorilla> the more* ways [18:06:40] <Blackiris> I heard about a script which checks models quality some months ago [18:06:47] <Nav> But I agree with what people have said about releasing early - I think it was Gijs that submitted a bunch of basic building shapes - updating those with better models is VERY easy [18:07:06] <Nav> you just need to keep the same origin and rotation on subsequent submissions [18:07:08] <gral> MartinSpott: Oh, that remembers me something http://maptest.fgx.ch/flightgearmapserver/ [18:07:11] <Nav> and we just upload the new tarball [18:07:19] <gorilla> Nav: nothing wrong with placeholders even :-) [18:07:53] <Nav> gorilla: absolutely not - if you want to start by submitting a position for a generic model that's also good - though you might struggle to keep the same origin then [18:08:23] <MartinSpott> gral: Hah, you finally did it ? [18:08:47] <gorilla> Nav: ahh that's another problem. :-) [18:09:29] <Nav> I'm very interested in bulk population of the database, and I've been playing around with code to do that, I need to work on something for classifying OSM buildings to auto place generic models (given the license change should happen very soon now) [18:09:45] <Nav> obviously large buildings should probably be left for more specific models [18:10:04] <Nav> no point in us having nice roads if there are no buildings next to them ;-) [18:10:12] <gral> http://maptest.fgx.ch/flightgearmapserver/download.html (drag with shift-key on the map), ok, but it is only history now. [18:10:44] <gral> the openlayers api is too old ;-) [18:12:23] <Blackiris> Oh I didn't know that : git://gitorious.org/fg/sceneryweb.git [18:12:42] <papillon81> gral: very nice [18:12:44] <Blackiris> Is it possible to make some improvements and send them ? [18:13:07] <MartinSpott> Blackiris: That's the main purpose :-) [18:13:10] <Nav> Blackiris: It needs a rewrite [18:13:15] <Nav> It's about 10 years old [18:13:20] <Nav> maybe even more [18:13:28] <Nav> and it's UGLY code [18:13:35] <Blackiris> No problem, I'm used to write php/html/css things [18:14:01] -*- Nav was considering making the front end just pull/push data in some sensible format [18:14:06] <Nav> json maybe [18:14:56] <Nav> and it does need templating properly, so someone with some design skill can make it look nice [18:14:58] <Blackiris> Yeah, AJAX you mean ? [18:15:07] <MartinSpott> Nav: Did you have a look at Olivier's stuff ? Whatever you're going to do, it should get integrated in some way [18:15:23] <Nav> yup [18:15:38] <Blackiris> yeah, I did some months ago but I didn't follow. I should see again. [18:16:20] <gral> MartinSpott: didn’t sent that to you? I don’t remember, maybe someone else can pick it up now [18:16:44] <Nav> we had considered creating accounts for everyone on the db so you could all upload directly, but it seems that the apache db auth modules all suck [18:17:10] <Nav> If we can get a sensible working auth mechanism then that's probably the easiest way to go. [18:17:12] <MartinSpott> Unfortunately [18:17:29] -*- gral Sorry. [18:17:32] <MartinSpott> We could put all this into an LDAP and authenticate PG against LDAP instead [18:18:00] <Nav> it's not pg we need the auth for - it's the front end [18:18:04] <MartinSpott> Apache/LDAP is pretty stable [18:18:34] <Nav> hmmmm, may be an option then [18:18:45] <MartinSpott> I mean, authenticate _both_ against LDAP and drop any local PG users in favour of their LDAP counterparts [18:21:13] <gral> Who is willing to own and fill a world scenery tracker? (Martin is not.) Who else? [18:21:37] <MartinSpott> But all this doesn't solve the core problem: Designers not submitting their models, people persuading others not to submit to Scenemodels [18:22:14] <MartinSpott> Until there's no change in people's minds .... well, I already said that [18:22:26] <papillon81> you can't change the people [18:22:35] <gorilla> Need to figure out why they are going around the central repository before finding a solution. [18:22:43] <papillon81> if they don't want to submit, they don't [18:22:50] <MartinSpott> papillon81: Yup, I know, that's why I'm leaving the FG Scenery place [18:23:12] <papillon81> and in the case of misaligned runways it makes no sense to submit, like itchi said [18:23:16] <Blackiris> What we can do, it's improving the tools, and show people that it's moving [18:23:23] -*- Nav wonders how many of the people in here at the moment have submitted stuff [18:23:31] <papillon81> such problems need to be solved via a terrain rebuild [18:23:33] <Blackiris> That's why I think about improving the website [18:24:09] <Blackiris> yeah, a terrain rebuild is also necessary to improve and show people it's changing [18:24:27] <papillon81> Blackiris: it's not that easy [18:24:53] <Nav> tbh I think a terrain rebuild should probably wait until the tools are a bit more stable again [18:24:55] <papillon81> we'll have to solve the "new tiles not matching" problem [18:25:05] <papillon81> Nav: +1 [18:25:13] <Nav> I would *love* our next scenery release to have 850 airfields and awesome line features [18:25:35] <papillon81> that's what I think too [18:25:44] <Nav> give x plane, msfs and flight something to worry about ;-) [18:25:49] <papillon81> no point to further maintain the 810 layouts [18:26:19] <itchi_> MartinSpott: I have no problem to push my data. But i have a problem to push things which will give a bad final result. The issue is not about pushing stuff. If you follow forum post, many have issues with outdated Terrains layouts [18:26:39] <Nav> if WED is the way to go for airport editing though this still leaves the problem of parking positions and AI networks [18:26:47] <itchi_> The biggest issue for me is wrong airport layouts [18:27:05] <MartinSpott> itchi_: The genereal recommendation over all the years was: better have poor or misplaced models than no models at all [18:27:06] <papillon81> Nav: yes. good point. maybe we can team up with the WED guys [18:27:16] <itchi_> I don't do a lot of landmarks, but instead work on airport. So somehow the scenerdb actually is a bit useless to me [18:27:19] <MartinSpott> There's always some airport/terrain/whatever being wron [18:27:24] <MartinSpott> There's always some airport/terrain/whatever being wrong [18:27:33] <itchi_> yeah sure [18:27:34] <Nav> We've had buildings in the hudson for *ages* [18:27:51] <Nav> (along with the occasional airbus, but that's beside the point) [18:27:55] <Nav> ;-) [18:27:56] <gral> Oh Nav, is this solved ? :-) [18:28:00] <gorilla> Nav: :-) [18:28:06] <itchi_> But there should be a way to only regenerate the airport tile. So peoples won't have an excuse at all :) [18:28:25] <MartinSpott> itchi_: If you're having a working solution, please go ahead [18:28:25] <Nav> itchi_: your problem then is edge matching [18:28:34] <MartinSpott> I'm working on one but it's not finished [18:28:40] <itchi_> yeah, i know, getting gaps :( [18:28:57] <Nav> build on demand would be *awesome*, but there are lots of problems to solve before that's possible [18:28:58] <itchi_> And i'm not that smart enough to get that fixed either : ( [18:29:39] <MartinSpott> You see, therefore I was suggesting to proceed now where it's already possible [18:29:53] <MartinSpott> But I have understood that this message isn't particularly popular [18:30:10] <papillon81> maybe it's a good time to repeat it: we need more genapts850 testers. some feedback led to important bugfixes in the last 2 days already [18:30:28] <itchi_> It's not that, it's that i use what i'm modeling :P [18:30:31] <Nav> awesome - I'll get updating and rebuilding then [18:31:02] <Nav> papillon81: out of interest, is there info somewhere on what got fixed? [18:31:06] <papillon81> Nav: i think psadro1 still has one fix not pushed... [18:31:24] <itchi_> But i should try to find a solution to eventually maintain two sceneries then. But many buildings at Brussels for example are not on the right possition, nor the right heading. So time by time i move them :/ [18:31:37] <papillon81> Nav: http://www.flightgear.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=15329&start=15#p151464 [18:31:55] <papillon81> http://www.flightgear.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=14478&start=45#p151607 [18:32:17] <Nav> thanks [18:32:20] <itchi_> I will just bother peoples with my weekly changes, if i should proceed like you want :/ [18:32:40] -*- Nav doesn't tend to read the forums that often - it's a pita keeping up with threads [18:32:49] <papillon81> Nav: yes, same here [18:33:02] <papillon81> i wonder how Gijs keeps track of all this [18:33:10] <itchi_> Some every two-week reader here :P [18:33:23] <itchi_> or even a monthly :P [18:33:41] <itchi_> And even then, i just track the threads which interest me [18:33:43] -*- gorilla isn't a fan of forums for the above reasons.. and more. [18:35:17] <itchi_> Will that bother you a lot if once in a while i would request to modify a bunch of objects coordinates and it's headings? [18:35:22] <Nav> so, do we need a scenery mailing list? or do we just need to encourage people to discuss this on the dev list? [18:35:42] <papillon81> Nav: i'd strongly suggest we have a seperate list [18:35:51] <Nav> itchi_: why modify them? put them in the right place to start with [18:36:11] <papillon81> there used to be a terragear project list. that's too much, but a scenery-specific one is overdue [18:36:15] <itchi_> Nav: Discuse about it will be good anyway, where that happen doesn't matter. But it's maybe better to leave that on the "main" dev-list, so that others can track them easily too?? [18:36:43] <itchi_> Nav: I have no reliable data, let's alone of acurate data :/ [18:37:06] <itchi_> For airfields this is more or less doable onsite, but for Brussels it's pita [18:37:41] <Nav> papillon81: no reason the terragear list couldn't be used for general scenery discussion too [18:37:45] <itchi_> nor i'm a math freak by calculating the the origin point of buildings etc [18:38:00] <Nav> I'll see about getting it resurrected - if it's completely dead I'll see about getting flightgear-scenery [18:38:36] <Nav> itchi_: the origin can be anywhere convenient [18:38:38] <papillon81> Nav: splendid [18:38:53] <Nav> I usually use an easily identifiable corner [18:39:22] <papillon81> BBL [18:39:24] <Nav> putting the origin in the middle away from any suitable physical reference is a quick way to madness [18:39:45] <Nav> (apart from for generic buildings, where that can make a certain amount of sense) [18:40:14] <itchi_> Nav: Yeah, but it's very hard to do that in a city. Once you calculate the building next to it, then you discover that some glich has happen :) [18:40:29] <itchi_> I guess a city isn't somethings that should be done :D [18:41:22] <Nav> don't bet on it - I've been working on a few models, they're possibly too high detail though, I did them mainly for my own entertainment [18:41:28] <itchi_> Here in Belgium, houses and buildings are really near each of them. Not like in the us where you have tons of space between each house :) [18:41:53] <Nav> http://www.stockill.net/Junk/newscenery/Wakefield-2.png [18:41:59] -*- Nav isn't in the US :-P [18:42:12] <Nav> http://www.stockill.net/Junk/newscenery/Wakefield-1.png [18:42:25] <itchi_> Nav: Yeah, have already fly there :) [18:42:38] <itchi_> But Brussels is kinda more populated than that :D [18:42:48] <itchi_> Dunno if you tried already [18:43:01] <Nav> I've modelled buildings that're only inches apart [18:43:16] <Nav> if you get your model right, it just fits [18:43:28] <Nav> if your model doesn't fit, then you need to improve your model ;-) [18:43:37] <itchi_> Nav: Well, i experience serious issue by doing that, especially if they needs to be separated objects [18:48:16] <itchi_> Anyway, i'm not sure it's a good idea to try to model a city. Especially that they conflict with the random objects [18:49:03] <itchi_> Bah, that can change later on, i'm sure. But for now i will spend my time to the airport buildings. Then i will go back to try to do cities :) [18:49:15] <MartinSpott> 17:59 < Nav> when people replace an existing generic model it also really helps if you can identify the one you're replacing - it can take a LONG time to work it out sometimes [18:50:00] <MartinSpott> .... and random objects is asking for a technical solution. [18:50:03] <MartinSpott> Not your problem [18:50:15] <Nav> generic, not random [18:50:32] <Nav> like where we have tall buildings positioned from obstruction data [18:50:46] <MartinSpott> Nav: I wasn't entirely certain which one he was talking about [18:51:11] -*- Nav meant generic [18:51:38] <Nav> itchi_: if you meant random, then there's nothing we can do about that [18:51:40] <itchi_> Yeah, having good and lot of generic objects can already do a lot [18:52:05] <itchi_> Nav: I was talking about that random object option, which place generic stuff in the scenery [18:52:27] <itchi_> But improving these generic objects would improve that random object feature too anyway [18:52:45] <geoff__> Just read the 850 genapts stuff on the forum. That's interesting... Is there a way to get forums posts sent to an email, say daily, like the list digest mode? [18:52:52] <Nav> the ideal solution would be for random objects to be suppressed near to properly placed models [18:53:09] <Nav> not sure how feasible that is though [18:53:10] <itchi_> I recently have buy a new camera, my older borked, but still need to wait that the weather is better to make good pics [18:53:24] <itchi_> I guess i have shoot to much pics with my previous one :D [18:53:30] <MartinSpott> Nav: Stuart's business ;-) [18:53:41] <MartinSpott> I think he's already working on it [18:54:21] <MartinSpott> Anyway, I'm leaving, will let the IRC client running for logging [18:54:49] <itchi_> yeah, need to prepare the food her in a few minutes. So i guess i will be back this evening [18:55:15] -*- Nav needs to find some food too [18:55:19] <Blackiris> Martin: can you published somewhere the logging ? I had some connections issues and couldn't follow everything...) [18:55:40] <geoff__> me too.. that would be great [18:55:45] <itchi_> arf, i should have pay attention to what i said then :P [18:55:46] <Blackiris> I think about wiki [18:55:54] <MartinSpott> I think papillon81 will post the log [18:56:11] <MartinSpott> right ? [18:56:31] <itchi_> If not i can publish it somewhere if needed [18:57:10] <Blackiris> Thanks itchi! [18:57:44] <itchi_> no problem, but i guess papillon81 will do :) [18:57:53] <itchi_> brbl [19:00:22] <geoff__> Any ideas on getting forum posts in digest mode, or is this just NOT possible? [19:02:28] <gral> geoff_ I really don’t know. I recommend using a tracker anyway where this can happen. But no one wants to own it. Nav will do a new flightgear-scenery list, when I undestand that part right [19:04:18] <Blackiris> (waiting for the log^^ Can someone send it to me **@**.fr, i will put it on my server) [19:04:40] <gral> I can send it to you Blackiris [19:04:46] <Blackiris> **@**.fr [19:04:57] <geoff__> Yeah a 'new' list is fine, but to me they all come to the one email address, where I have filter to separate them. But I MISS the information put on the forum... [19:05:12] <Blackiris> Thank you gral! I will publish the link then [19:06:03] <geoff__> gral: if you also send it to me I will also post it... [19:06:30] <gral> Will do so. [19:06:36] <geoff__> tks [19:07:34] <MartinSpott> geoff__: I guess you don't want to read the forum stuff :-) [19:07:49] <MartinSpott> Not really [19:07:54] <gral> psadro1 what do you think about using the list and a tracker for the terragear-cs stuff ? [19:08:10] <geoff__> No, just do not like trolling forums, but would LOVE to have the posts... [19:08:38] <geoff__> Lots of good information, ideas, etc [19:08:45] <psadro1> gral: All for it. a tracker would be a good idea. [19:09:18] <geoff__> You mean a 'tracker' will send e email? [19:09:27] <MartinSpott> geoff__: Ok, I was just thinking of the Scenery subforum [19:09:41] <MartinSpott> Maybe the others are different, I don't know [19:10:43] <gral> geoff_ yes. [19:11:08] <papillon81> back [19:11:22] <papillon81> i will post the full log to the ML, once we are done here [19:12:43] <papillon81> gral: with tracker you mean a bugtracker [19:13:19] -*- papillon81 has to say he doesn't like the google issuetracker too much [19:13:33] <gral> you want a trac? [19:14:29] <papillon81> gral: let's wait if Nav can resurrect the TG list (and project page). Then we'll see where we go from there [19:14:30] <gral> I have a trac system running here, but I thought it might be better to use googlecode for this case. [19:18:11] <gral> papillon81 I am trying to collect all custom scenery projects for a list to go on, can you help me there? [19:18:21] <gral> Just to get a state [19:18:22] <papillon81> sure [19:18:53] <papillon81> we have (from memory): Dubai [19:19:01] <papillon81> Helgoland [19:19:14] <papillon81> North-frisian islands [19:19:25] <papillon81> Bodensee [19:19:28] <papillon81> Berlin [19:19:42] <papillon81> Manhattan [19:20:02] <papillon81> the Rhine valley [19:20:20] <gral> Paris ? [19:20:48] <papillon81> not that I know [19:22:15] <papillon81> London [19:22:26] <papillon81> Diego Garcia [19:22:31] <MartinSpott> Bad Hersfeld, Cape Verde, Caribbeans, Courchevel, KEDW, London, Madrid, Oakland, Oshkosh, Bodensee, Switzerland, Sylt, VAID [19:22:41] <papillon81> MartinSpott: thanks! [19:22:51] <MartinSpott> At least that's a list of directories on Kerstin's PeeCee ..... [19:23:02] <papillon81> Madeira [19:23:15] <MartinSpott> Weidatal and Wiesbaden are non-public - and predate all the others you've ever heard of :-) [19:23:57] <MartinSpott> I'm not sure how large KEDW and VAID are [19:24:04] <MartinSpott> Cape Verde was made from VMap1 [19:24:20] <MartinSpott> Oakland is a synonym for the SFO bay area [19:24:39] <MartinSpott> .... which is what is now in the Base Package [19:25:25] <papillon81> the question is if we really want to keep Bodensee, Berlin and other CS that are in the Corine-covered region [19:25:52] <papillon81> the islands being an exception here, since they are more detailed that Corine [19:26:03] <MartinSpott> They are having a lot more detail than CORINE, but might be slightly inaccurate in terms of land cover types [19:26:04] <papillon81> s/that/than [19:26:14] <MartinSpott> I mean Berlin and Bodensee [19:26:34] <gral> MartinSpott: is the geogratis stuff from canada already in database ? [19:26:42] <papillon81> both are inferiour to Corine, IMHO [19:27:29] <MartinSpott> CanVec/Geogratis is sitting in my raw data archive, but I think never put this into the DB [19:27:45] <MartinSpott> Someone has to determine proper landclass mappings [19:28:25] <MartinSpott> sphere: 10:28:11 ~/archive/GIS/GISData/GeoGratisVector> pwd [19:28:25] <MartinSpott> /home/martin/archive/GIS/GISData/GeoGratisVector [19:28:25] <MartinSpott> sphere: 10:28:12 ~/archive/GIS/GISData/GeoGratisVector> du -hs * [19:28:25] <MartinSpott> 525M Local_Collections [19:28:25] <MartinSpott> 6,2G National [19:28:27] <MartinSpott> 2,5G Regional [19:34:09] <gral> MartinSpott: Were is the reference for a proper mapping when someone wants to do this work? [19:36:36] <MartinSpott> One end is the CS Wiki page @ OSGeo, the other end is the CanVec/GeoGratis manuals [19:38:08] <gral> Thanks, that was for the log. [19:38:32] <MartinSpott> wait .... [19:39:03] <MartinSpott> For those who don't read headlines: [19:39:07] <MartinSpott> http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/LandcoverDB_CS_Detail [19:39:27] <MartinSpott> neither headlines nor list postings ;-) [19:41:00] <MartinSpott> You might consider replacing the "VMap0 equivalent" by the correct spelling for materials.xml [19:41:24] <MartinSpott> .... for those who don't read XML files before writing new ones .... [19:44:30] <MartinSpott> Being sarcastic is much easier when there's nothing to loose :-)) [19:48:21] <gral> Papillon81 and all who wants to publish transcript, can you please remove mailadresses before you publish? [19:49:03] <geoff__> ok [19:51:31] <gral> Any objection to close discussion for today? Otherwise I tend to cut here now for the moment. [19:51:55] -*- gral is hungry. ;-) [19:52:22] <geoff__> me too - bye for now... ;=)) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Virtualization & Cloud Management Using Capacity Planning Cloud computing makes use of virtualization - but cloud computing also focuses on allowing computing to be delivered as a service. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51521223/ _______________________________________________ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
