hello,
i can't believe i'm getting into a fluxpissing match (and over something
that could only possibly be of interest to subscribers in toronto...)
the connection to fluxus and pop music is hardly weak - the two most
influential bands in pop music had fluxus members in them! John Cale of the
Velvets contributed a film of Police Car Lights to a Fluxfest and John
Lennon contributed several works and attended festivals. Also their
connections, respectively, to La Monte Young and Yoko Ono made for an even
stronger connection/influence.
sampling and cut-n-paste rock is the aural equivalent to visual collage and
the essence of the Playing with Matches show. clearly it was also
opportunism on the part of wayne b of plug in gallery, but who cares? the
show has raised al hansens profile considerably, and that of fluxus and may
get teenagers into art galleries. none of those are bad things
when terrance said 'rock and roll is avant garde' he was being incredibly
facetious. the affectation in his voice was clear.
as for the panel defining fluxus - it wasn't supposed to and couldn't
possibly! i have corresponded with most of the main (remaining) fluxus
artists and very few still use the word to describe their work. fewer still
can articulate what fluxus was (with the notable exceptions of dick higgins
and ken friedman who both write well on the subject).
yes, snow and sook yin lee spoke about their own work rather than defining
fluxus. have you read these fluxlist digests? i've not read one that comes
close to a defination but many talk about the contributors own projects.
both the panel and the fluxlist are intended to start conversation, not be
didactic or authorative.
incidentally, most fluxus artists use the term event over happening.
happenings were messier and included several actions (often improv)
simultaneously. and event was a purer, simple gesture, like george brechts
"exit".
sure it's fun to break violins but the piece can not possibly have as much
relevance as it once did. i was more interested in jean yoons discussion of
yoko's mending pieces than in simply breaking things. or a woman who spoke
of concretism and said she was still enjoying the piece an hour later
because she could see the parts of the shattered violin.
i should add that i am a fan of beck (not the current record or tour) and i
thot some of his works for the al hansen show were decent enough, all things
considered. i noticed a richard prince influence. i am also a sonic youth
fan and an aquiantence of guitarist lee renaldo. i started him on his
something else press bookshelf a few years back. their new record is
excellent and the entire band are extemely devoted to the visual arts (as
can be seen by their collaborations with mike kelly, gerhard richter,
christian marclay, raymond pettibon, richard kern, etc).
hope i haven't come across as an ass, here.
can anyone tell me about albert fine? he is never well represented in fluxus
histories but the few things of his i've seen are excellent. funny like ray
johnson or ben vautier, i recall.
-----Original Message-----
From: joshua thorpe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: February 9, 2000 8:27 PM
Subject: Re: FLUXLIST: response to ddyment and open mouth
>
>thanks for the responses people! here are some thoughts....
>
>-------
>> also went to the toronto panel discussion and it was a little of a let
>>down for me too... felt like things went all over the place. didn't leave
>>me with a better understanding of fluxus:undefinable...?
>
>get the fluxus reader. dick higgins' writing is especially good.
>
>the panel was not an acceptable introduction to fluxus. and the connection
>of
>dada, fluxus and so on to pop music sampling is weak at best. (it seems
>like the power plant was merely trying to capitalise on beck's fame) yes,
>john cage set a huge precedent for pop music by making the first musique
>concrete piece and with all his work (and he had his influences too:
>cowell, varese, russolo, shoenberg). but the avant garde is NOT rock and
>roll. this is where terence failed in my opinion, however i did appreciate
>his genuine interest and effort, and thought he was certainly the best
>speaker and most familiar with the 'facts,' something i can't say for
>michael snow (whose film wavelength is wonderful). (by the way,
>terence said la monte young burned a violin but he didn't say it
>was actually a piece by richard maxfield, performed by la monte young.)
>
>also, i think the violin smashing piece is as wonderful
>today as when originally performed.
>
>an example of the kind of cross-over that i really like is sonic youth's
>recent album 'goodbye 20th century' this is the conflation of two cultural
>worlds, an honest negotiation of the high/low culture dichotomy, similar to
>a central concern of fluxus and dada: the art/life dichotomy. don't get me
>wrong, i like beck, i just think it's very commercial (and therefore
>anti-fluxus) to conclude that a blood tie and some isomorphism between
>assemblage and sound sampling constitutes some kind of artistic bond.
>fluxus was avant garde, sook yin lee is not. i'm not uptight, hell i'm
>willing to call tom green's humour avant garde, but because it's presented
>as
>humour we laugh, which is also important to fluxus and dada. my definition
>of avant garde this: 'incomprehensible or incoherent to previous
>perceptual habits'. it might make you laugh, but it probably won't make
>you tap your foot (unless it's ken friedman's 'zen vaudville').
>
>> what is a happening vs. a score?
>
>a happening is the event itself, the score merely describes that potential
>event. keep in mind that happening was a term used by allan kaprow, and is
>not often used by fluxus artists, who tend to say 'event'. the dadaists,
>cage, and joseph beuys are important precedents.
>
>> did anyone stay for the music afterwards?
>
>i was unable to, but the ccmc perform often.
>
>incidentally, anyone in toronto interested in free improv should check out
>the victory cafe (and bar) every other thursday.
>the series, 'ulterior music,' is a great bunch of young, unique musicians.
>i may be
>performing there sometime in the future. the victory is in mirvish
>village, on markham rd at the 1st intersection south of bloor.
>
>> hey joshua let me know if do perform some pieces in t.o in the near
>future...
>
>will post on this list.
>
>hey, i'm enjoying this discussion!
>
>thanks all
>
>HSOJ
>
