Ah, but the polluter (the bosses, the bosses they're eating strawberries
and cream!) doesn't give a damn. It's only a "cost" to those folks in,
say, Bhopal, at least during the original time of export and perhaps not
even then until the balloon goes up. The polluter and her accountants
don't even consider it.
On 3/24/11 11:22 PM, Russ Abbott wrote:
I agree that "export externalities" is a strange phrase. I think the
intended meaning is to export costs to the environment to avoid paying
for them directly. The obvious example is pollution. The polluter
doesn't pay because he exports that cost to the world at large.
Markets and competition to my mind are quite different things. But
that's a separate thread.
/-- Russ Abbott/
/_____________________________________________/
/ Professor, Computer Science/
/ California State University, Los Angeles/
/ Google voice: 747-/999-5105
/ blog: /http://russabbott.blogspot.com/
vita: http://sites.google.com/site/russabbott/
/_____________________________________________/
On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 9:33 PM, Carl Tollander <c...@plektyx.com
<mailto:c...@plektyx.com>> wrote:
This is a weird turn of phrase, to "export externalities". Where
are we exporting them from if they are already, well, external?
Hmph.
Of course we import them as well, for example the flight you take
today is safer and cheaper because the complex of airplane
manufacturers, airports and regulators conspired to ever more
efficiently metabolize the errors that made some poor chump's
airplane fall out of the sky 40 years ago. I think this is part
of the civilization contract. At some point someone in the
future you don't even know will have a better time of it because
the civilization learned from something that made your own life
less than stellar.
There seem to be some folks that believe this can only happen, or
happens primarily through markets and competition. I confess
that the notion that there is at any given instant a "true cost"
or a "true price" for a good or service is seeming to me
increasingly quaint.
On 3/24/11 9:38 PM, Russ Abbott wrote:
Yes, and no.
Nick, you wrote, " if we are to base our economy on competition,
then the practice of exporting externalities ... has to stop "
The fact is that if we base our economy on competition, there is
every incentive to export externalities. We can, of course, make
rules and regulations that attempt to limit those exports. And
those who benefit by such exports will look for other ways to
export externalities. But I'm sure you and everyone else on this
list already know that.
/-- Russ /
On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 7:02 PM, Nicholas Thompson
<nickthomp...@earthlink.net <mailto:nickthomp...@earthlink.net>>
wrote:
Vlad,
Not sure why Peggy’s comment deserved such a trolllish response.
I will join in her view that if we are to base our economy on
competition, then the practice of exporting externalities to
the neighborhoods and nations of the powerless has to stop.
We have to work to find the true cost of products and that
needs to be reflected in the price. Then and only then does
competition rise above exploitation. I realize that this is
not necessarily easy, but if one believes in the market
place, it has to be done.
By the way, what more do you need to know to demonstrate that
cigarette smoking has associated health care costs?
Nick Thompson,
*From:*friam-boun...@redfish.com
<mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com>
[mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com
<mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com>] *On Behalf Of *Vladimyr
Burachynsky
*Sent:* Thursday, March 24, 2011 7:21 PM
*To:* 'The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group'
*Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] vol 93, issue 22
It appears that your conclusion was made independent of the
facts. Perhaps your conclusion serves some unidentified
agenda, could you explain who WE is and how the PRICE TAG is
adjusted to effect a specific end?
I ecall how the price of cigarettes in Canada was increased
to reflect the supposed increased health care costs
*From:*friam-boun...@redfish.com
<mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com>
[mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com
<mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com>] *On Behalf Of *peggy miller
*Sent:* March-24-11 6:12 PM
*To:* friam@redfish.com <mailto:friam@redfish.com>
*Subject:* [FRIAM] vol 93, issue 22
Thanks for input from a number of you on the
magnet/toxins/windmill issue. Seems like we need to get wind
turbine price tag to include pollution mitigation at bare
minimum.
--
Peggy Miller, owner/OEO
Highland Winds
wix.com/peggymiller/highlandwinds
<http://wix.com/peggymiller/highlandwinds>
Shop is at 1520 S. 7th St. W. (Just west of Russell)
Art, Photography, Herbs and Writings
406-541-7577 <tel:406-541-7577> (home/office/shop)
Shop Hours: Wed-Thurs 3-7 pm
Fri-Sat: 8:30-12:30 am
============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps athttp://www.friam.org
============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
