The moths seem to have vanished from my house in Albuquerque. Yesterday they covered every outdoor surface, and now I can't even find a corpse of one. Did they all end up in Pojoaque getting nibbled on by chickens?
Cody Smith On Tue, May 19, 2020 at 10:31 AM Marcus Daniels <mar...@snoutfarm.com> wrote: > Oh you mean an ODE.. <ducks/> > > > > *From: *Friam <friam-boun...@redfish.com> on behalf of Prof David West < > profw...@fastmail.fm> > *Reply-To: *The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group < > friam@redfish.com> > *Date: *Tuesday, May 19, 2020 at 9:30 AM > *To: *"friam@redfish.com" <friam@redfish.com> > *Subject: *Re: [FRIAM] Miller, miller moths everywhere... > > > > Nick is a big fan of scientific story - at least "popular science" > conveyed with stories - ala "Private Lives of Garden Birds" by Calvin > Simonds. > > > > davew > > > > > > On Tue, May 19, 2020, at 10:13 AM, thompnicks...@gmail.com wrote: > > Steve, > > > > Re stories, that’s probably why I was drawn to Darwinism. Every Darwinian > explanation, no matter how sophisticated, is a story, a historical > narrative, arising from plausible suppositions about the way things were. > Last time I read the literature, the mitochondrial data on humans suggested > that we arose from a single, smallish, group in southern Africa. If that’s > not an idiographic (as opposed to nomothetic) account, I don’t know what is. > > > > Nick > > Nicholas Thompson > > Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology > > Clark University > > thompnicks...@gmail.com > > https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/ > > > > > > > > *From:* Friam <friam-boun...@redfish.com> *On Behalf Of *Steve Smith > > *Sent:* Tuesday, May 19, 2020 9:04 AM > > *To:* friam@redfish.com > > *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] Miller, miller moths everywhere... > > > > Nick - > > I *like* this kind of anecdotal/vernacular science. I think Glen might > refer to these stories/ideas as "just so stories" because they seem to be > post-hoc fitting of simple yet in some sense apt models to anecdotal data > gathered ad-hoc but widely. I think I understand (and agree) with his > (implied) judgment of them as being "real science" but they smack of > something more than "wishful thinking", maybe "whimsical thinking"? And a > sort of proto-science. Or a collective form of knowledge/wisdom formation > which lacks the formal rigor of modern science. Related to what Dave > appeals to with us perhaps in Jung and other ideas of collective > consciousness. A step away from believing that the cosmos and everyday > life are ordered by a (the) angry/benevolent god(esses) toward believing > something perhaps equally absurd, that everything is ordered by mathematics. > > My father was second-generation college educated... with a BS in biology > preparing him for an advanced degree in Forestry (soil and range science), > and his parents before him both held BS degrees in Geology. But they were > all still rooted in a style of understanding the world (minerals, plants > and animals, and people) which was roughly animistic... they all still > lived physically close to the earth and virtually all of their relatives > were still living in the hills and hollers of Appalachia. This could > easily explain why I "like" the anecdotal/vernacular and distrust the > *over* application of mathematics. > > I've rattled on before about the *explanatory* power of models and the > hypotheses they embody vs *predictive* or *communicative* or *descriptive* > or even *inspirational*. These are not orthogonal, but I think still > useful... a "descriptive" model of the utlity/power of scientific > thinking/modeling? > > - Steve > > FWIW... re: Jon's report on their nutritive value, my young chickens (6 > weeks today?) have been foraging in our courtyard for about a week during > the day. At first they showed significant interest in the flies that > would occasion their feeder, but seemed to learn quickly that they were not > fast enough to catch them, and soon discovered the myriad ground insects > that they could find by pecking and scratching. I was sitting on a low > wall next to a couple of them... they seem to like the company of humans > and will come close and do their foraging near me, even though I rarely > hand feed them. I looked down and one was swallowing a very large > grey-brown object which I am now sure was a miller. The miller moth > infestation/epidemic/peak at my house (near the Rio Grande) seems to have > lagged that of the one in Santa Fe and even just up the Pojoaque Valley > where people have been reporting the deluge for weeks. Ours just started > a few days ago. > > Speaking of anecdotal and just-so science stories. I find it fascinating > to note that these birds, supposedly not THAT removed from their wild > ancestors are constructed from a single *large enough to eat for breakfast* > egg-cell in about 20 days and emerge almost fully able to survive alone > (though they benefit from the warmth and protection and guidance of a > mother hen, or some people with a heat-lamp and some agri-industrially > formulated food and our own curiosity). And then, not too much later, they > begin to "shed an egg" nearly daily (if you keep taking them away) which if > fertilized, would repeat the construction, growth process right in front of > my eyes. Aside from their daily egg-gift, I look forward to their help in > insect control in my garden.... I can tolerate many pests in the garden but > some years we get grasshoppers and squash bugs, each who can decimate a > crop. > > I've always enjoyed watching the Sphynx/Hummingbird moths around the > homestead, but did not know their larval form was the "dreaded" tomato > worm. Last year, I was surprised to see that along with my tomatoes, they > had discovered the volunteer datura that come up here and there around the > property and two or three had ganged up on one plant and stripped it bare > of leaves. I wondered at how their metabolism handled the kind of > alkaloids that humans (and cattle?) experience as "loco weed". The datura, > with it's heavily cholorphylled and thick stems seemed to survive just fine > and put out a fresh bounty of (smaller?) leaves and returned to it's course > of producing flowers to be pollinated by (also the sphynx?) and then a > seedpod to lead to this year's surprise sprouts?! > > Hi, Merle, > > > > Are you sure it’s not 19 years? The standard “take” on insect eruptions > is (used to be?) that they occur on a cycle of prime numbers to make it > harder for creatures with shorter cycles to “track” them. See > https://www.newyorker.com/tech/annals-of-technology/the-cicadas-love-affair-with-prime-numbers > for a pretty thin introduction to the idea. > > > > N > > > > Nicholas Thompson > > Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology > > Clark University > > thompnicks...@gmail.com > > https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/ > > > > > > *From:* Friam <friam-boun...@redfish.com> <friam-boun...@redfish.com> *On > Behalf Of *Merle Lefkoff > > *Sent:* Monday, May 18, 2020 10:01 PM > > *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group > <friam@redfish.com> <friam@redfish.com> > > *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] Miller, miller moths everywhere... > > > > My son in Boulder says they get the "infestation" right on the dot every > 20 years. > > > > They are also important pollinators. > > > > On Mon, May 18, 2020 at 9:57 PM Jon Zingale <jonzing...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Wow, they are everywhere! According to wikipedia: > > > > Army cutworms are one of the richest foods for predators, such as brown > bears <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brown_bear>, in this ecosystem, > where up to 72 per cent of the moth's body weight is fat, thus making it > more calorie-rich than elk or deer.[10] > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Army_cutworm#cite_note-10> This is the > highest known body fat percentage of any animal.[11] > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Army_cutworm#cite_note-11> > > > > And according to the New Mexican: > > > > `... they do not carry disease, Formby said, and they’re not the type of > moth that will get into your clothes closet and start shredding your new > camel hair jacket.` > > > > > > -- --- .-. . .-.. --- -.-. -.- ... -..-. .- .-. . -..-. - .... . -..-. . > ... ... . -. - .. .- .-.. -..-. .-- --- .-. -.- . .-. ... > > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > > Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam > > un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > > archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ > > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ > > > > > > -- > > Merle Lefkoff, Ph.D. > > President, Center for Emergent Diplomacy > > emergentdiplomacy.org > > Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA > > merlelefk...@gmail.com <merlelef...@gmail.com> > > mobile: (303) 859-5609 > > skype: merle.lelfkoff2 > > twitter: @Merle_Lefkoff > > > > -- --- .-. . .-.. --- -.-. -.- ... -..-. .- .-. . -..-. - .... . -..-. . > ... ... . -. - .. .- .-.. -..-. .-- --- .-. -.- . .-. ... > > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > > Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam > > un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > > archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ > > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ > > -- --- .-. . .-.. --- -.-. -.- ... -..-. .- .-. . -..-. - .... . -..-. . > ... ... . -. - .. .- .-.. -..-. .-- --- .-. -.- . .-. ... > > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > > Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam > > un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > > archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ > > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ > > > > > -- --- .-. . .-.. --- -.-. -.- ... -..-. .- .-. . -..-. - .... . -..-. . > ... ... . -. - .. .- .-.. -..-. .-- --- .-. -.- . .-. ... > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam > un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >
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