It doesn't disappear.  It re-invents itself in new ways with new product and
process innovations.  

Let me be clear though, capitalism is only concerned with private
efficiencies.  What is going on "out there" is of little interest.  As long
as the power grids, computers, etc are running, the cost of efficiency to
the public (social costs) are not factored in at all.  In some ways private
efficiencies are ONLY made possible by imposing costs externally., viz,
pollution.

arthur

-----Original Message-----
From: Ray Evans Harrell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2003 9:32 AM
To: Cordell, Arthur: ECOM; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED];
[EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [Futurework] David Ricardo, Caveman Trade vs. Modern Trade


If that were true capitalism would disappear.   It is the most wasteful of
all of the forms of governing with the least direction.   At its purest it
is kayaking to building dams.

REH


----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>;
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2003 8:47 AM
Subject: RE: [Futurework] David Ricardo, Caveman Trade vs. Modern Trade


> Efficiency trumps just about everything in our economy.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ray Evans Harrell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Monday, November 24, 2003 9:02 AM
> To: Stephen Straker
> Cc: Cole, Karen Watters; Ed Weick; Keith Hudson; Lawrence DeBivort;
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: [Futurework] David Ricardo, Caveman Trade vs. Modern Trade
>
>
> Thanks Stephen,
>
> Here is an article from the NYTimes today that makes the same point about
> corporate "Productivity" when it comes to things that make us healthy or
> wise.   Note that the person writing the article is a Not-for-profit
> corporate executive since common sense is rarely productive or even
> profitable unless its buildings, widgits or furniture.   All of the less
> important things in life.   The things that disappear when you die and
don't
> prepare you for anything but a senile comfort.   This article shows why we
> have learned little from the Irish potato famine.   Same mistake.
>
> REH
>
> November 24, 2003
> OP-ED CONTRIBUTOR
> About a Turkey
> By PATRICK MARTINS
>
> When you sit down to your Thanksgiving meal on Thursday, waiting for the
> main attraction to be brought in on a platter, take a moment to think
about
> where it came from and how it found its way to your table. After all, your
> turkey is not the same wily, energetic, tasty bird that struck our
ancestors
> as the perfect centerpiece for an American holiday.
>
> Most Americans know that the turkey is a native game bird, and that
Benjamin
> Franklin thought it would have been a better national symbol than the bald
> eagle. For good reason: in the wild, Meleagris gallopavo is a fast runner
> and a notoriously difficult prize for hunters. Even after they were
> domesticated, turkeys remained spirited, traditionally spending the bulk
of
> their lives outdoors, exploring, climbing trees, socializing and, of
course,
> breeding.
>
> Now consider the bird that will soon be on your plate. It probably hatched
> in an incubator on a huge farm, most likely in the Midwest or the South.
Its
> life went downhill from there. A few days after hatching - in the first of
> many unnatural if not necessarily painful indignities - it had its upper
> beak and toenails snipped off. A turkey is normally a very discriminating
> eater (left to its own devices, it will search out the exact food it wants
> to eat). In order to fatten it up quickly, farmers clip the beak,
> transforming it into a kind of shovel. With its altered beak, it can no
> longer pick and choose what it will eat. Instead, it will do nothing but
> gorge on the highly fortified corn-based mash that it is offered, even
> though that is far removed from the varied diet of insects, grass and
seeds
> turkeys prefer. And the toenails? They're removed so that they won't do
harm
> later on: in the crowded conditions of industrial production, mature
turkeys
> are prone to picking at the feathers of their neighbors - and even
> cannibalizing them.
>
> After their beaks are clipped, mass- produced turkeys spend the first
three
> weeks of their lives confined with hundreds of other birds in what is
known
> as a brooder, a heated room where they are kept warm, dry and safe from
> disease and predators. The next rite of passage comes in the fourth week,
> when turkeys reach puberty and grow feathers. For centuries, it was at
this
> point that a domesticated turkey would move outdoors for the rest of its
> life.
>
> But with the arrival of factory turkey farming in the 1960's, all that
> changed. Factory-farm turkeys don't even see the outdoors. Instead, as
many
> as 10,000 turkeys that hatched at the same time are herded from brooders
> into a giant barn. These barns generally are windowless, but are
illuminated
> by bright lights 24 hours a day, keeping the turkeys awake and eating.
>
> These turkey are destined to spend their lives not on grass but on wood
> shavings, laid down to absorb the overwhelming amount of waste that the
> flock produces. Still, the ammonia fumes rising from the floor are enough
to
> burn the eyes, even at those operations where the top level of the
shavings
> is occasionally scraped away during the flock's time in the barn.
>
> Not only do these turkeys have no room to move around in the barn, they
> don't have any way to indulge their instinct to roost (clutching onto
> something with their claws when they sleep). Instead, the turkeys are
forced
> to rest in an unnatural position - analogous to what sleeping sitting up
is
> for humans.
>
> Not only are the turkeys in the barn all the same age, they - and the
> roughly 270 million turkeys raised on factory farms each year - are all
the
> same variety, the appropriately named Broad Breasted White. Every bit of
> natural instinct and intelligence has been bred out of these turkeys, so
> much so that they are famously stupid (to the point where farmers joke
> they'll drown themselves by looking up at the rain). Broad Breasted Whites
> have been developed for a single trait at the expense of all others:
> producing disproportionately large amounts of white meat in as little time
> as possible.
>
> Industrial turkeys pay a high price for the desire of producers and
> consumers for lots of white breast meat. By their eighth week, these
turkeys
> are severely overweight. Their breasts are so large that they are unable
to
> walk or even have sex. (All industrial turkeys today are the product of
> artificial insemination.)
>
> Needless to say, no Broad Breasted White could hope to survive in nature.
> These turkeys' immune systems are weak from the start, and to prevent even
> the mildest pathogen from killing them, farmers add large amounts of
> antibiotics to their feed. The antibiotics also help the turkeys grow
faster
> and prevent ailments like diabetes, respiratory problems, heart disease
and
> joint pains that result from an unvaried diet and lack of exercise.
Because
> the health of these turkeys is so delicate, the few humans who come in
> contact with them generally wear masks for fear of infecting them.
>
> On non-industrial farms, it takes turkeys 24 weeks to arrive at slaughter
> weight, about 15 pounds for a hen and 24 pounds for a tom. Industrial
> turkeys, however, need half that time. By 12 to 14 weeks, the whole flock
is
> ready for the slaughterhouse. Once slaughtered, the turkeys have to suffer
> one more indignity before arriving in your grocer's meat case. Because of
> their monotonous diet, their flesh is so bland that processors inject them
> with saline solution and vegetable oils, improving "mouthfeel" while at
the
> same time increasing shelf life and adding weight.
>
> Anyone who cooks knows that salt alone won't do the trick. Once, simply
> sticking a turkey in the oven for a few hours was enough. Today, chefs
have
> to go to heroic lengths to try to counteract the turkey's cracker-like
> dryness and lack of flavor. Cooks must brine, marinate, deep fry, and hide
> the taste with maple syrup, herbs, spices, butter and olive oil. It's no
> surprise that side dishes have moved to the center of the Thanksgiving
menu.
>
> Even so, 45 million turkeys will be sold this Thanksgiving, so turkey
> producers aren't doing badly for themselves. But could they be sowing the
> seeds of their own misfortune? By relying solely on a single strain of the
> Broad Breasted White, and producing it in huge vertically integrated
> companies that control every aspect of production, entire flocks and even
> the species itself is one novel pathogen away from being wiped off the
> American dinner table. The future of the turkey as we know it rests on
only
> one genetic strain. And the fewer genetic strains of an animal that exist,
> the less chance that the genes necessary to resist a lethal pathogen are
> present.
>
> It's for this reason that maintaining genetic diversity within any species
> is crucial to a secure and sustainable food supply. Sadly for the turkey
and
> for us, the rise of the Broad Breasted White means that dozens of other
> turkey varieties, including the Bourbon Red, Narragansett and Jersey Buff,
> have been pushed to the brink of extinction because there is no longer a
> market for them.
>
> What to do? One solution is to bypass Broad Breasted Whites altogether. A
> few nonprofit groups - including my own, Slow Food U.S.A., and the
American
> Livestock Breeds Conservancy - are working with independent family farms
to
> ensure that a handful of older, pre-industrial turkey varieties, known as
> heritage breeds, are still being grown. These varieties are slowly gaining
> recognition for their dark, rich and succulent meat. (My group, which
> encourages the preservation of artisanal foods, sells turkeys on behalf of
> these farmers, but we don't profit from the transactions.)
>
> While it might be too late to get your hands on a heritage bird this year,
> there are some other options available to consumers who would like a
turkey
> raised in a more humane fashion, even if it is a Broad Breasted White.
> Farmers' markets often have meat purveyors who raise their turkeys the way
> they should be, free ranging and outdoors.
>
> At the market, you can often meet the person who grew your turkey and ask
> about how it was raised. Many independent butcher shops have developed
> relationships with local farmers who deliver fresh turkeys, especially for
> special occasions like Thanksgiving. A few environmentally conscious
> supermarkets get their turkeys from small family farms.
>
> But as you shop, you need to look for more than just labels like
"organic,"
> "free range" and "naturally raised." They have been co-opted by big
business
> and are no guarantee of a healthier and more humanely raised bird.
>
> The key word to keep in mind is "traceability." If the person behind the
> counter where you buy your turkey can name the farm or farmer who raised
it,
> you are taking a step in the right direction. You'll help give turkeys a
> better life. You'll be kinder to the environment. And you might even wind
up
> with a turkey that tastes, well, like a turkey.
>
>
> Patrick Martins is director of Slow Food U.S.A.
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Stephen Straker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Ray Evans Harrell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Cc: "Cole, Karen Watters" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Ed Weick"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Keith Hudson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Lawrence
> DeBivort" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Monday, November 24, 2003 3:02 AM
> Subject: Re: [Futurework] David Ricardo, Caveman Trade vs. Modern Trade
>
>
> > >>>>>> In my 48 year teaching career, I started in thermodynamics,
> progressed through psycho-analysis,  then the character study of Gestalt
> work, Somatic studies and laryngeal bio-mechanics and the therapy methods
of
> the latter 25 years of the 20th century.   But a funny thing happened on
the
> way to all of this knowledge.   Voice teaching just seemed to be bigger
than
> all of it. <<<<<<
> > >>>> ... the underlying process is that there are many processes and
that
> all of them who answer all of the questions, work...<<<<
> > >>> ... Everything is true, sometime and someplace.    For me the issue
is
> our being able to choose the world that we wish to florish in and to raise
> our own children so that they can be free to do the same without losing
all
> of that "rear-end" knowledge. <<<<
> >
> > Well said, Ray. Well done!
> >
> > Reminds me of the ideas of that fabulous (& too much
> > overlooked) British historian and philosopher RG Collingwood
> > (1889-1943). Collingwood argued that human knowledge is
> > nothing more *nor less* than the *history* of everything
> > that ever has been (successfully) known, each in its time
> > and place - rather like TS Kuhn's notion of "paradigms" but
> > more deeply historical.
> >
> > (Could see RG Collingwood, *The Idea of Nature* and/or *The
> > Idea of History*.)
> >
> > PS - I thought Hobbes best to make the case for the
> > irreducible reality of social/civic entities since Hobbes
> > begins, as you note, from a very hard-line reductionist
> > materialism. Yet he comes out on the right side of things (I
> > think).
> >
> > best wishes,
> >
> > Stephen Straker
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Vancouver, B.C.
> >
> >
>
>
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