Justin, if you had a day of Dentin time, what things would you have him look at and in what order?
Dennis Towne Alter Aeon MUD http://www.alteraeon.com On Tue, Dec 1, 2015 at 2:37 PM, Justin Jones <atreides...@gmail.com> wrote: > Jeremy, > > I think I would be a bit less critical if Alter Aeon had been around > for only a few years, but since it has been in operation for two > decades, I do not feel the need to be overly sympathetic. If I could > play the commercial MMORPG games, I would be doing that rather than > playing Alter Aeon. Unfortunately, as a blind gamer, I am heavily > restricted with my options (a situation that aggravates me to no end). > > I will concede that Alter is definitely a step above other muds. I > have investigated others and they are either not well supported, > extremely PVP heavy or have a strong RP requirement. None of those > options particularly appeal to my sensabilities. Also, up until I > started playing Alter Aeon, I was not very well connected to the blind > community. Thanks to Alter, I have plenty of blind friends now (though > the vast majority of my friends remain sighted). > > The best way to explain my harsh criticism of Alter Aeon is I > recognize the potential it has from transforming from a merely good > game (which it is) to a great game. It is, perhaps, a quirk of mine > that my harshest criticisms go toward the things that I recognize > potential in. > > As for your points, we are going to have to agree to disagree and > leave it at that. Perhaps you might be willing to provide some > guidance on Alter for me. I am, at the very least, willing to learn > and improve. Then, perhaps, I might be willing to rethink my position > on the various issues I have commented on. > > My main on Alter Aeon is Morathi, with my three primary alts being > Sheoldred, Ohthere and Corallyon. > > > > On 12/1/15, Jeremy Brown <tyr...@gmail.com> wrote: >> Justin, >> >> Everyone is entitled to their opinions. I'll address some of my own >> responses to yours below. Sometimes, it's a matter of your play style >> or your expectations. Coming from a long term roleplaying game >> background like Dark, a mud is never going to live up to my own >> personal standards of what i'd like from this style of game; but that >> said, I feel that alter does better than a lot of muds I've tried. >> >> I'm going to quote and respond below: >> >> Jeremy, I get that Alter is staffed by volunteers and that Dentin and >> Shadowfax have real-life issues to deal with. I get it, I really do, >> but some of the recent changes/skill additions have been >> mind-bogglingly awful. >> >> (Jeremy: A lot of awful is very subjective. One change that has >> angered a lot of people is the charisma changes for clerics. It has >> made charisma an important stat for now five classes. However, >> because charisma was everyone's dump stat, it has caused issues. The >> ability to swap stats has alleviated some of this problem, and some >> other issues with other awful changes are answered in similar ways. I >> wouldn't want to pay for a stat swap either if I could help it, so I >> sympathize with those who don't see that as an option, but saying >> this change is awful because there's no recourse just because you >> don't like the recourse is probably not the way to procede.) >> >> >> >> Take, for instance, the change where lightcatchers will now have a >> chance to break when they are used. Why? Why has Dentin felt the need >> to make this adjustment? There is no call to do this? On the other >> hand, >> >> (Jeremy: I disagree. Druid is the youngest class in terms of >> development, and this is part of limiting the class' power and making >> it more in line with other powers and abilities on the game. Light >> catchers and spell staves make druids one of the most dangerous >> classes, and causing these abilities to possibly have other >> repercussions helps to limit that power. To build new staves or sun >> catchers takes gold a limited resource, mana and time that the >> character might have used elsewhere. It makes sense. Necromancers >> run into this problem when soul stones are sucked down to the >> underworld with a summoning etc.) >> >> >> Warriors and Thieves need some serious overhauling as there are >> entirely too many stat dependencies, >> >> (Warrior and thief require at most four stats like any other class. >> Primarily either strength or dexterity, constitution and charisma. If >> a thief is to be successful intelligence is important, but since any >> sane person will want spells, intelligence will be one of the stats >> being trained fourth, fifth, or sixth anyway. I don't get this >> particular argument, but i'll attribute it to play style.) >> >> >> >> but most of all, the equipment >> selection is not terribly strong? >> >> (When I first started playing, a super powerful warrior could hit >> 40/40 and was limited to hitting. Now, a super powerful warrior can >> expect to hit 50/50 without intrinsic hitroll or damroll and more than >> likely regens mv, has intelligence or wisdom on their hit gear so they >> can cast mor e of their own spells, can carve many pieces or have a >> druid friend carve them, and can often do other things while hitting. >> Again, I am not sure I follow this argument. In terms of gear, I >> honestly think warrior and thief have it far better in many ways than >> other classes. No, most hit gear does not carry mv regen which would >> be a warrior equivalent to the manaregen on caster level gear but >> refresh is a second level spell requiring only a wisdom of 14 or 15 >> and a chr of 11 or 12. Again, i'll have to attribute this one to >> difference in play style and expectations.) >> >> >> >> With the various spellcasting >> classes, as a direct comparison, the latter's equipment is fairly >> straight-forward in what is optimal. >> >> (Hmm, i'm not sure i'd agree. All casting classes have to decide >> whether to go with cast level or regen. Necromancer is the only class >> where the two often are conjoined nicely and even there, many >> necromancers can increase their regen by going full bore regen set. >> However, iagree with you that most of the casting gear is easier to >> understand once you learn the differences between cast ability, caster >> level, mana regen, intelligence, wisdom, and charisma boosts, aging, >> age, and how all of those interact.) >> >> Warriors and Thieves, on the >> other hand have lousy selections. >> >> (Why? There are a number of 3/3 pieces in the game now, there's a >> number of lower power pieces with str/dex on them. Ther'es pieces >> with mv regen and hit or dam. I'm not seeing this one, i'm sorry.) >> >> >> >> If Dentin/Shadowfax are being overwhelmed by the workload involved, >> they can always reach out to veteran members of the community and >> enlist their support. >> >> (Yes, if they are willing to deal with the possible fall out and >> issues with how changes are implemented. Dentin is very careful who >> has access to and is able to change the code and how much for a >> reason. He has a vision for the game and how it should be balanced, >> and past issues with coding are one reason there aren't more people >> doing it.) >> >> >> >> It is a simple problem with an equally simple >> solution. >> >> (As with most simple solutions, the problem isn't quite as simple as >> it appears:).) >> >> >> I am willing to concede that my entry into Alter, and subsequent >> opinion of the game, is colored by my experience with mainstream >> role-playing games, i.e. games that sighted people have access too. >> >> (Such as? I know my experiences were heavily colored by my playing of >> Dungeons and Dragons, Rolemaster, and other similar games. If you're >> meaning World of Warcraft or similar online things, since they evolved >> from muds, there's a lot of overlap in terms of how they work, and >> there's also a lot of differences in terms of business model. When >> you have 2 million subscribers all paying 10 dollars a month to play, >> you can afford more coding, more elaborate setups, and more rapid >> change.) >> >> >> Perhaps I have grown accustomed to a higher level of quality/balance, >> >> (Quality is subjective. I have the impression from your other >> critiques that a number of these issues are different from my own >> issues with A.A. and probably result from play style and approach. >> Balanced? I'm not so sure about that. A.A. is one of the best >> balanced games I've seen in terms of no one class being dominant. >> When I first started playing mage was clearly the most superior class >> and far outstripped all others hands down and with no question. >> Nowadays? While many people feel that necromancer and druid are >> overpowered, they are frankly new classes. The other four were >> balanced over a period of 20 years. Necromancer has been out 6 years, >> druid only 3 assuming i'm remembering correctly. Neither is a >> significant amount of time compared to the other four. The light >> catcher change you noted earlier, and the changes two or three years >> ago to necromancer minions that caused such an uproar are signs of >> those classes being brought into tighter balance.) >> >> >> >> >> given my background. If this is indeed the case, then I recognize my >> failing and will work to correct it. >> >> >> (I'm not sure it's a failing necessarily, but a lack of full >> understanding. That tends to be the source of most criticisms of the >> game. I played for 7 years before I ever started building on A.A. and >> it wasn't until I started building that I truly began understanding >> parts of the game that had always flummoxed me. It's an amazingly >> complex interaction of stats, skills and spells, equipment, and other >> factors that make monsters and players the way they are. Dentin >> himself a lot of times has to ask players how things work in actual >> play because he's not directly familiar with every bit of code all the >> time. It seems like to me that some of your criticisms are based on >> misapprehension of what the powers and roles of warrior and thief are >> versus caster classes. Also too, equipment is built by world builders >> and takes time to catch up with actual needs and changes in the player >> base, play style, and game changes. A lot of cleric gear has been >> updated to include bonus chr now instead of bonus intelligence for one >> example. A lot of newer warrior and thief eq is far superior to what >> was available in older areas, and some of hthat is being updated >> slowly but surely. Players want the game to reflect what they see as >> weaknesses, but the game has something like 600 or 700 distinct areas >> or racks, new ones are being added to keep up with player demand, and >> with the limited volunteer staff there's not enough time to update >> every piece of eq the way it should be as fast as it should be. In >> the case of main stream rpgs for the sighted, most of the ones that I >> see people cite most often are pay to play set ups or are table top >> games. Both involve a huge cash investment and require a lot of >> fiddling with at the design level. The players do not see that >> fiddling the way they do with a small mud like A.A. because it all >> happens invisibly and is paid for. There's no volunteers, there's >> people being paid to do grinding work. It's an important point to >> keep in mind. For many points in A.A.'s history there's been less >> people operating full time. At some points there was more. Dentin >> has made a real commitment to keeping the game playable as a free >> game. I like that, and admire it, but it means that people do have to >> have certain expectations different than with mainstream games. Also >> too, one last thing: Alter is, was, and continues to be designed just >> as much for sighted people as for the blind. Making a distinction >> between it and mainstream sighted games struck me sort of mfunny. >> Dnetin's catering more to blind players as we make up the majority of >> the player base now, but the game didn't start out that way, and only >> slowly has evolved that way. When I first started playing, it was a >> different thing ieentirely to play on the telnet clients and to have >> to react at speed with no triggers to a changing environment. Mush >> has so much ambient sound, and msp sounds have added so much, that the >> game is hardly recognizable in those terms.) >> >> Take care, >> >> Jeremy >> >> --- >> Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org >> If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to >> gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. >> You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at >> http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. >> All messages are archived and can be searched and read at >> http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. >> If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, >> please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. >> > > > -- > Justin M. Jones, M.A. > atreides...@gmail.com > (254) 624-9155 > 701 Ewing St. #509-C, Ft. Wayne IN, 46802 > > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at > http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, > please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
