Let me reiterate that my interest in this discussion is only to provide
accurate medical scientific information, and in refuting the bogus claims made
in the post appended below that a relic preserved in Italy has been confirmed
by modern science to be of miraculous origin. I have no interest in denying the
genuine faith (devoid of any need for confirmation by science) of people in
this forum in the parochial supernatural beliefs of their own religion. So what
I am writing below is meant only for people who are interested in knowing why
the rambling claims made in the post appended below, laced with personal
insults against me, and in the original study by the anatomist O. Linoli, do
not pass scientific muster.
I have already explained the shortcomings of the original study by Linoli in an
earlier post more than 2 years ago on Goanet. Here I would like to explain them
in greater detail. I have in my possession the original paper by Linoli
published in an obscure Italian publication. Having read its translation, and
being in possession of a professional background in medical science and
research, I can conclude the following:
1. The study fails to show that the material examined is fresh tissue and
blood, as has been claimed in the post below and elsewhere.
a) The tissue is highly degraded, contaminated with fungal colonies and has
poor structural integrity.
b) The so-called blood does not show any intact cells or biological structures
in it. The material failed to pass two important chemical tests for blood. It
contains more than 10 times the normal concentration of calcium in it (114.29
mg% compared to the normal range of 9 - 11 mg%). It has highly reduced
concentrations of chloride, phosphorus, magnesium, potassium and sodium,
compared to normal blood. It is contaminated with fragments of vegetable
material.
2. The study fails to perform any conclusive objective tests to determine
whether the tissue and blood are of human origin. A simple microscopic
examination and ABO blood typing is woefully inadequate to conclude that the
material examined is of human origin.
3. The study does not do any test to determine that the relics are from the 8th
century.
4. The study does not do any test to determine that they indeed miraculously
emerged from inanimate material.
5. The study does not do any test to determine that they belonged to the right
person.
6. The claim that the blood was of type AB contradicts the belief that its
owner had only a single set of 22 autosomes (non-sex chromosomes) derived from
his mother. This is because only a person with 2 sets of autosomes, each set
derived from the mother and father, can have type AB blood. Normal human beings
have two sets of paired chromosomes. The genes (alleles) for blood group
antigens A and B are located on the 9th chromosome. For type AB blood, one
allele (for A or B) has to come from a 9th chromosome from the mother and the
other allele (B or A) has to come from the other 9th chromosome in the pair
from the father. A person with type AB blood indicates one of three
possibilities, as far as his parents' blood types are concerned. The parents
had type A and type B blood, type AB and type A blood, or type AB and type B
blood.
7. Regarding the claim of type AB blood in the Shroud of Turin, the shroud
itself has been scientifically determined to be a 14th century artifact. The
purported blood spots on it have been shown to be ochre and vermilion pigments.
Blood typing could not be confirmed by independent scientific investigation.
The initial blood typing was conducted on shroud fibers stuck to a piece of
tape handled by the investigators.
Those who have a medical or scientific background, and would like to read the
original paper of Linoli in Italian, are welcome to request a copy of it from
me. They can get it translated and examine the photomicrographs and the results
described in it with their own eyes.
Cheers,
Santosh
--- On Sun, 2/13/11, Ivo <icso...@bsnl.in> wrote:
>
> From: "Santosh Helekar" <chimbel...@yahoo.com>
> <<...It is a well established understanding that
> science only deals with natural phenomena, and provides
> rational natural explanations for them.
> **Santosh is right. Science deals with natural phenomena.
> In the case of Eucharistic phenomenon at Lanciano, medical
> science identifies the "flesh" as "heart", striated
> myocardial muscle, with AB group group pellets of blood,
> with the same weight, whatever the combination. Science
> cannot explain how this happened. But Science can verify the
> fact that is present till today. It is up to the theologian
> to infer that this is "transsubstatiation" of the bread and
> wine into the Body and Blood of Jesus, as he had promised
> (See Jn 6:35.54-56: " "He who feeds (Greek: trogei) on my
> flesh and drinks my blood has life eternal, and I will raise
> him up on the last day. For my flesh is real food, and my
> blood real drink."). We believe in the words of Jesus rather
> than in the "pseudoscientific conclusions" of the half-baked
> "neuroscientist", Dr.Santosh Helekar. His conclusion is a
> belief, without any foundation, not even scientific real
> foundation. Being an "agnostic", he is unable to infer. Just
> quoting contrary links is not a scientific solution. It is
> rather "scientific illiteracy" and pedantry. Only belief in
> God and in the words of Jesus gives us the solution of this
> "enigma", already verified by medical science.
>
> >> Science has nothing to do with anybody's parochial
> supernatural beliefs in miracles, myths or anything else.
> **Santosh is absolutely wrong, as usual. Science attests to
> the fact that there is "heart" with blood pellets on the
> altar (monstrance), till today, without any preservatives.
> Any further links against this fact are out of place.
> Science cannot say that it is the "heart" of JESUS of
> NAZARETH, but can only give and has already given details
> about the "heart" structure and blood grouping (AB) and
> chemical characteristics: in the blood, there were found
> proteins in the same normal proportions as are found in the
> sero-proteic make-up of fresh, normal blood. In the blood,
> there were also found these minerals: chlorides, phosphorus,
> magnesium, potassium, sodium and calcium. The preservation
> of the flesh and of the blood, which were left in their
> natural state for more than twelve centuries (without any
> chemical preservatives) and exposed to the action of
> atmospheric and biological agents, remains an extraordinary
> phenomenon. The five pellets of coagulated Blood are
> different sizes and shapes. But any combination weighs the
> same as the total. In other words, 1 weighs the same as 2, 2
> weigh the same as 3, and 3 weigh the same as 5.
> How to explain this phenomenon? Theology has already
> explained it.
> The physician, Dr.Odoardo Linoli, has given a note at the
> end of the Report: "Though it is alien to my task strictly
> speaking, I feel I should insert the following reflection
> into the study just completed: the clarification, which
> comes through in these studies, of the nature of the flesh
> gives little support to the hypothesis of a 'fraud'
> perpetrated centuries ago. As a matter of fact supposing
> that the heart may have been taken from a cadaver, I
> maintain that only a hand experienced in anatomic dissection
> would have been able to obtain from a hollow internal organ
> such a uniform cut (as can still be glimpsed in the flesh)."
> Indeed, it would have been difficult, next to impossible,
> for anyone to have cut a slice of the heart in the way that
> it was done. He also states that it is highly doubtful that
> there was any fraud involved.
> Another unusual characteristic of the blood is that when
> liquified, it has retained the chemical properties of
> freshly shed blood. When we cut ourselves and stain our
> clothes, the chemical properties of the blood are gone
> within 20 to 30 minutes. If blood is not refrigerated within
> an hour maximum, the composition rapidly breaks down. If
> blood were taken from a dead body, it would lose its
> qualities quickly through decay. This blood is over 1250
> years old and still contains all its properties, chemicals
> and protein of freshly shed blood. And yet in the testing,
> it was determined that no preservatives of any kind were
> found in the blood. Indeed, an Eucharistic miracle that
> cannot be denied by anybody, though nobody can shout the
> mouths of the fools!
>
> >> People are free to believe whatever they want, as
> long as they are not causing harm to anybody or spreading
> misinformation regarding important matters such as public
> health in public forums.
> **People are free to believe whatever they want. YES and
> NO!. All the people are not fools all the time to believe
> without a foundation. If the Church had taught that it is
> the "heart" of Jesus against the confirmation by Science,
> she would have harmed public sanity. Medical science
> confirms the belief of the Church. This belief is not a
> "myth", nor "parochial". It is unscientific to deny the
> fact, as the great neuroscientist is doing all the time...
> Regards.
> Fr.Ivo
>
