I'm at work and can't do an internet search, but IIRC, there are several such as you describe illustrated in some of the Brueghel wedding and holiday celebration paintings, "Peasant Wedding", "Wedding in a Barn" and "Summer" in particular. These are middle and lower class people, not the nobility. The "sagging" seems be as a result of large prosperous bellies and not a fashion statement. Also, while there are visible points painted in, in a number of instances they are not tied through the matching holes in the doublets or the doublets are left off. This would also contribute to "sagging." These might give you an idea of what was happening, at least in the Netherlands.
Also, there is some evidence that something along the line of suspenders started to be used very late. My guess would be that if you didn't have a small waist and hips on which to suspend your pants, then once you stopped attaching your breeches to your doublets, you needed something else to hang them from, i.e. suspenders. And the coats/doublets got bigger and bigger. At least that's my interpretation of trends in late 16th and early to mid 17th century mens' clothing. Ginni Morgan >>> Tiberius Clausewitz <l_clausew...@yahoo.com> 3/27/09 5:36 AM >>> Some pages giving advice on Renaissance historical costuming--like one of Kimiko's pages on costume myths ( http://www.kimiko1.com/research-16th/CostumeMythsWS/myth04.html )--take great pains to show that Renaissance breeches were worn on the waist rather than slung low on the hips. Of course I'm convinced because I've never seen an actual historical example or illustration of a "sagging" fit, not to mention that I (perhaps rather unusually for men in their twenties) always wear my modern trousers on the waist. But now I'm curious about how the wrong "sagging" fit would look on reproductions of Renaissance breeches, because I've never seen it in person either; so can anybody refer me to a photograph or illustration that shows such a fit? Thanks beforehand for any answers--or none. I know it's not exactly the kind of thing that a good costumer would like to document. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This communication with its contents may contain confidential and/or legally privileged information. It is solely for the use of the intended recipient(s). Unauthorized interception, review, use or disclosure is prohibited and may violate applicable laws including the Electronic Communications Privacy Act. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender and destroy all copies of the communication. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
