Bob;
You are correct about the FUD (Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt) issue. SQL
has its own levels of abstraction which make it easy to make simple queries,
it gets easy to make some very bad inquiries that 1) access the data in one
of the most expensive ways, and/or 2) returns the wrong results (when
non-relational data needs to be addressed). Now objects can be described to
access these non-relational aspects, but this is usually another piece of
MUMPS code which is specific to the aspect which is being addressed, another
abstraction. As they say, the only cure for interpretation is more
interpretation.
In most cases, it has been easier (for programmers and high level users)
to write a simple MUMPS routines which can address much more complicated
rules than can be expressed in SQL. It should be identified that relational
databases are idealized projection of data and seldom relect the complexity
of the real world or the detail which is needed to express the complexity of
the situation being reflected in the database. This is the strength of the
MUMPS database is the extensibility of the design and the adaptability that
is difficult to duplicate.
Best wishes; Chris
BTW, good to hear from you, Bob, and see you still in the community.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert M. Witkop" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net>
Sent: Saturday, April 16, 2005 6:06 PM
Subject: Re: [Hardhats-members] Hospital Cost analysis
> Actually, the VA hospitals that have converted to Cache, have SQL access
> to their data. They also have object access to their data. Many of the
> VA hospital personel have had training on how to use Cache to access the
> data using objects and SQL with the result that some are familiar with
> objects and SQL and like it, while others want to stick to the old
> technology they are familiar with (Mumps).
>
> The real problem is that there is so much FUD coming from the RDBMS
> world in particularly the big O, that the management (these are the only
> people who run with FUD, because they don't know) run scared.
>
> The biggest problem with technology is that management does not
> understand it, so they are influenced by big money companies more than
> by their own technical staff. Admittedly that doesn't say much for their
> intellegence, but money makes the world go round.
>
> My mix of knowledge and opinion.
>
> Bob
>
>
>
> On Sat, 2005-04-16 at 15:04, Dr Molly Cheah wrote:
> > This is what I found from this web-site.
> >
> > >
http://www.virec.research.med.va.gov/DataSourcesName/VISTA/VISTAaccess.htm#S
QL
> >
> > >
> > > SQL
> > >
> > >
<http://www.virec.research.med.va.gov/DataSourcesName/VISTA/VISTAaccess.htm#
Top>
> > >
> > >
> > > Investigators planning to construct a relational database of VistA
> > > data will find that few sites offer direct access to VistA data using
> > > SQL (Structured Query Language). Instead, data are most often exported
> > > from VistA with an M or MUMPS ( Massachusetts General Hospital Utility
> > > Multi-Programming System) program and then mapped to a relational
> > > database .
> > >
> > > Commercially available software applications like MUMPS Data Extractor
> > > (MDE) and KB SQL allow direct SQL access to MUMPS data. Another
> > > M-based SQL mapping system is built into VistA's Cache. A few sites
> > > have the necessary software for direct M-to-SQL access but several
> > > more tried and abandoned it. They found it was too expensive and/or
> > > put too much strain on the operation of the local VistA system.
> > >
> > > The VA FileMan application SQL Interface (SQLI) was an attempt to
> > > provide the data dictionary information needed to map VA FileMan files
> > > to a relational database. SQLI is not able to provide access to VA
> > > FileMan data on its own. Instead, it provides information about VA
> > > FileMan's internal data dictionary to an M-to-SQL application like KB
> > > SQL or MDE. Since the available M-to-SQL products can map VA FileMan
> > > data without help from SQLI, SQLI has not been heavily used.
> > >
> > Molly
> >
> > Cameron Schlehuber wrote:
> >
> > >VistA uses the Data Extracts package to collect and pass out data
> > >specifically for the purposes of management decisions support for
budget
> > >analysis, projection, business changes for better use of resources etc.
The
> > >tool used for the analysis is a COTS product ($$$$$).
> > >
> > >-----Original Message-----
> > >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Eriam
> > >Schaffter
> > >Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2005 9:21 AM
> > >To: hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net
> > >Subject: [Hardhats-members] Hospital Cost analysis
> > >
> > >Hello all this is Eriam Schaffter
> > >
> > >I'm in europe and i'm working on a cost analysis software for
hospitals.
> > >
> > >Is there such a module in OpenVista ?
> > >
> > >If not i would investigate the need for integration of OpenVista with
> > >the software i'm working on, could you tell me if there would be an
> > >interest for such a solution (a light business intelligence tool) in
the
> > >world of OpenVista.
> > >
> > >For integration techniques i'll have to go into the code but is there
> > >any way to fetch datas from Openvista with sql queries ?
> > >
> > >Thanks
> > >
> > >Eriam Schaffter
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
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