Guys, I like good tutorials. I learned VIM using a tutorial. I don't need the VIM tutorial any longer, but at the beginning it was useful.
+1 for maintain Getting Started as is with minor changes Why Eclipse was chosen for the tutorial? Our goal was to use Harmony for Harmony development. I liked that idea. With best regards, Alexei Fedotov, Intel Java & XML Engineering >-----Original Message----- >From: news [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Egor Pasko >Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 1:29 PM >To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org >Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is >outdated > >On the 0x21D day of Apache Harmony Pavel Ozhdikhin wrote: >> Nadya, >> >> One more proposal about "Getting Started": let's remove all current >content >> and write something like following: >> >> "To the moment we got rid of all major differences from other Java >> implementations, so to use DRLVM you can just build it (here goes link to >> readme with build instructions) and run as any other Java VM. For >commonly >> used command-line options please look into the Wiki page (link to >Salikh's >> page or to the document)." >> >> What do you think? > >1 page to hold only 4 lines of text? :) > >> Thanks, >> Pavel >> >> >> On 10 Nov 2006 14:29:59 +0600, Egor Pasko <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> > >> > On the 0x21D day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova wrote: >> > > Good day to you, Egor! >> > >> > evening, dark and snowy evening :) >> > >> > > What do you say about the getting started doc? >> > >> > I expressed it recently. General idea is that Harmony operates near >> > the same as other JSE implementations. Almost all specifics is in >> > extra options which we started collecting on Wiki for an extra >> > HOWTO-like page (BTW, thanks to Salikh for starting the page). >> > >> > I believe, it is time to remove the "Getting Started". So, +1 to Pavel >> > Ozhdikhin here. >> > >> > BTW, I asked my dad to look at the website. Ideas for improvement from >> > him: >> > 1) site-local search is useful for a beginner. Hm, Tomcat has it with >> > links to google search. We can have something as soon as we get to the >> > desired TLP :) >> > 2) it is not obvious that site misprints/problems should be reported >> > to the mailing list. Commercial websites have something like >> > "support/suggestions mailto". We can point mailto to the mailing list >:) >> > >> > > Thank you, >> > > Nadya Morozova >> > > >> > > -----Original Message----- >> > > From: news [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Egor Pasko >> > > Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 8:55 AM >> > > To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org >> > > Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is >> > > outdated >> > > >> > > On the 0x21D day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova wrote: >> > > > Egor, >> > > > I generally like the idea of improving navigation over the site - >> > > > there's never too much of that. However, I am not sure whether we >need >> > > > yet another separate page for introductory/guidance info. I hope >the >> > > > starting page + the generic pages we have are mostly fine. However, >> > > > adding a link here and there to lead site visitors. >> > > > >> > > > Getting started could be a more specific project-oriented page. >There, >> > > > you can tell people to go <link>download</link>, <link>build</link> >> > > the >> > > > code. After which, they can start using it just as any other >> > > > <link>RI-compatible</link> jdk. With the exceptions, see our >> > > > <link>wiki</link> pages. >> > > > To use the vm, readers might need to use the following options... >> > > > If they want to read more on our VM, they can visit the >> > > > <link>component</link> page. If no website page contains an answer >- >> > > > they can read <link>wiki faqa</link>. >> > > > .. or something like that :) >> > > >> > > Nadya, I really appreciate our efforts :) But this morning I woke up >> > > and looked the site structure with the eye of a beginner. And could >> > > not find any obvius flaws in the main structure. Left-side collection >> > > of links is in a very good shape, good for beginner-level navigation >> > > and contains almost all links you listed here. >> > > >> > > This was a really refreshing morning :) >> > > >> > > I'll ask some guys who are new to the project, how they feel about >the >> > > site. And will report back, if I find something. >> > > >> > > Refreshing morning is over, now back to work.. >> > > >> > > > Thank you, >> > > > Nadya Morozova >> > > > >> > > > -----Original Message----- >> > > > From: news [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Egor Pasko >> > > > Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2006 5:33 PM >> > > > To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org >> > > > Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" >is >> > > > outdated >> > > > >> > > > On the 0x21C day of Apache Harmony Pavel Ozhdikhin wrote: >> > > > > On 11/9/06, Morozova, Nadezhda <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >wrote: >> > > > > > >> > > > > > Egor, >> > > > > > +1 for >> > > > > > Just idea: "Getting Started" may contain a collection of links >to >> > > > the >> > > > > > main website and other resources with short descriptions ("Site >> > > Map" >> > > > > > or something) so that people are comfortable floating around in >> > > the >> > > > web. >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > We already have one page having links to the resources about >DRLVM: >> > > > > >http://incubator.apache.org/harmony/subcomponents/drlvm/index.html >> > > > > Why do you think we need another one? >> > > > >> > > > because it is only DRLVM. >> > > > I think of something like "site map", a collection of links. Short >> > > > descriptions to some basic ones. >> > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > +1 for >> > > > > > * preparing the "Commonly Used Options for DRLVM" (omitting the >> > > word >> > > > > > "supported" intentionally) >> > > > > > Question on this one: will the page contain vm-only options? >What >> > > > about >> > > > > > JIT, GC, other? I'd have them all in one place, but we have >> > > separate >> > > > > > docs for EM/jit stuff. What do you say? >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > I think we can describe basic options for every component there. >> > > Only >> > > > those >> > > > > that might be interesting for any user. The place for other >options >> > > is >> > > > in >> > > > > the run-time help or Developer's Guide for a component. >> > > > >> > > > I thought of "most commonly used" options. They can possibly be >> > > > grouped by components, but not necessary. I would group them by >> > > > use-cases. BTW, "any user" is not an obvious substance for me. >> > > > >> > > > So, the list is not obvious, we need to work it out. >> > > > >> > > > I see it like HOWTOs. For example: >> > > > "-Xem:jet <- use only baseline JIT compiler" >> > > > "-Xem:opt <- use only optimising JIT compiler" >> > > > "-Xtrace:em <- print method compilation events" >> > > > >> > > > The 'big' question is: "does 'any user' need to know about JITs >> > > > switching?". I say YES, it helps users to investigate problems, >which >> > > > helps us, developers, to react on users' input faster. >> > > > >> > > > Other options? I can enlist the set of most commonly used by me. If >> > > > many of us put their lists here, we can sum them up quickly and >make >> > > > a good (really useful) list of popular options. How about that? >> > > > >> > > > BTW, the list should not be too big. 25 options is a kind of limit >> > > > >> > > > > Thanks, >> > > > > Pavel >> > > > > >> > > > > Thank you, >> > > > > > Nadya Morozova >> > > > > > >> > > > > > -----Original Message----- >> > > > > > From: news [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Egor Pasko >> > > > > > Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2006 5:51 AM >> > > > > > To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org >> > > > > > Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with >DRL" >> > > is >> > > > > > outdated >> > > > > > >> > > > > > On the 0x21B day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova wrote: >> > > > > > > All, >> > > > > > > I'd like to share everyone's grief at the sight of outdated >> > > > Getting >> > > > > > > Started document. However, I'd not hurry to eliminate the >page >> > > as >> > > > > > such. >> > > > > > > We might reconsider some of its contents, change structure, >and >> > > > update >> > > > > > > individual bits, but please think carefully before removing >the >> > > > page. >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > I think Getting Started (as the title shows) is aimed to help >a >> > > > newbie >> > > > > > > work with our vm. I know that many primarily interested in >other >> > > > > > things >> > > > > > > - conformance, architecture, internal specifics. However, we >> > > > should >> > > > > > also >> > > > > > > think how the vm is used. AFAIK, Getting started is now the >> > > *only* >> > > > doc >> > > > > > > that tries to show how to use our vm. You tell people how to >> > > > download >> > > > > > > and build, but almost nothing about how to run and configure >> > > (with >> > > > the >> > > > > > > exception of EM/JIT). >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > My suggestion would be to think of what you want to tell >people >> > > > about >> > > > > > > usage - with or without eclipse specifics. And store this >info >> > > on >> > > > the >> > > > > > > page. I know it is hard - and I offer my help and support in >> > > this >> > > > > > > burdensome initiative. Any thoughts? i might be inobjective >and >> > > > > > > emotional :) >> > > > > > >> > > > > > Nadya, >> > > > > > >> > > > > > I believe, almost everyone coming across Harmony knows how to >use >> > > > > > J5SE. We are striving for this compatibility, and we are happy >> > > that >> > > > > > all DRLVM-specific pecularities are gone. >> > > > > > >> > > > > > So, I vote for: >> > > > > > * removing the "Getting Started" (also because of irritating >> > > windows >> > > > > > screenshots:) >> > > > > > * preparing the "Commonly Used Options for DRLVM" (omitting the >> > > word >> > > > > > "supported" intentionally) >> > > > > > >> > > > > > Just idea: "Getting Started" may contain a collection of links >to >> > > > the >> > > > > > main website and other resources with short descriptions ("Site >> > > Map" >> > > > > > or something) so that people are comfortable floating around in >> > > the >> > > > web. >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > -----Original Message----- >> > > > > > > From: Mikhail Fursov [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >> > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2006 6:03 PM >> > > > > > > To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org >> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with >> > > DRL" >> > > > is >> > > > > > > outdated >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > It's not a hard to write a documenation once, it's hard to >> > > support >> > > > it >> > > > > > :) >> > > > > > > More problems: >> > > > > > > 1) -Xem options are obsolete. >> > > > > > > 2) -Xjit options are also obsolete. >> > > > > > > 3) Do we really need this page today? AFAIU users expect >Harmony >> > > > VM is >> > > > > > > able >> > > > > > > to run the same apps as RI.. >> > > > > > > ? >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > On 11/8/06, Pavel Ozhdikhin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >wrote: >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Hello all, >> > > > > > > > I've read through the "Getting Started with >> > > > > > > > DRL< >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > >> > > >http://incubator.apache.org/harmony/subcomponents/drlvm/getting_started . >> > > > > > > html >> > > > > > > > >" >> > > > > > > > document on the Harmony web and found it completely >outdated, >> > > > for >> > > > > > > example: >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > - the term DRL is used instead of DRLVM >> > > > > > > > - eclipse.bat and eclipse.sh are obsolete - we don't >need >> > > > them >> > > > > > > anymore >> > > > > > > > to run Eclipse. It can be started with DRLVM the same >way >> > > as >> > > > with >> > > > > > > any >> > > > > > > > other >> > > > > > > > VM. >> > > > > > > > - We don't need to set PATH and LD_LIBRARY_PATH anymore, >at >> > > > least >> > > > > > > on >> > > > > > > > Windows/MSVC >> > > > > > > > - ij was renamed to java >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > We took a big step to unification with other Java VMs and >now >> > > > > > > > we don't need anything specific to run Eclipse, for >example. >> > > > After >> > > > > > > > removing >> > > > > > > > all irrelevant info the document would contain only the >list >> > > of >> > > > > > > > command-line >> > > > > > > > options. I think we can move this list to a separate >document >> > > > (Wiki, >> > > > > > > > Developer's Guide?) and remove the "Getting Started" >itself. >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Any opinions? >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Thanks, >> > > > > > > > Pavel >> > > > > > > > < >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > >> > > >http://incubator.apache.org/harmony/subcomponents/drlvm/getting_started . >> > > > > > > html >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > -- >> > > > > > > Mikhail Fursov >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > -- >> > > > > > Egor Pasko >> > > > > > >> > > > >> > > > -- >> > > > Egor Pasko >> > > > >> > > >> > > -- >> > > Egor Pasko >> > > >> > >> > -- >> > Egor Pasko >> > >> > > >-- >Egor Pasko