On 15/12/2011, Conor McBride <co...@strictlypositive.org> wrote:
>
> On 15 Dec 2011, at 15:19, Brent Yorgey wrote:
>
>> On Thu, Dec 15, 2011 at 06:49:13PM +1000, Gregory Crosswhite wrote:
>>>
>>> So at the end of the day... what is the point of even making Maybe
>>> and [] instances of Alternative?
>>
>> The Alternative and Monoid instances for [] are equivalent. However,
>> the Alternative and Monoid instances for Maybe are not. To wit:
>>
>>> (Just (Sum 4)) <|> (Just (Sum 3))
>> Just (Sum {getSum = 4})
>>
>>> (Just (Sum 4)) `mappend` (Just (Sum 3))
>> Just (Sum {getSum = 7})
>
> The current monoid instance for Maybe is, in my view, unfortunate.
>
> Types are about semantic purpose, not just data representation.
> Many purposes can be represented in the same way. We should identify
> the purpose of a type (or type constructor), then define instances
> consistent with that purpose. And better, we acquire by instance
> inference compound instances consistent with that purpose! (A similar
> view is often articulated well by Conal Elliott. But perhaps it's
> just a "Con" thing.)
>
> The purpose of Maybe, it seems to me, is to model failure and
> prioritized choice, after the manner of exceptions. It's clear
> what the failure-and-prioritized-choice monoid is.
>
> It so happens that the same data representation can be used to make
> a semigroup into a monoid by attaching an identity element. That's
> a different semantic purpose, which deserves a different type.
>
> This really bites. I really like being able to write things like
>
> newtype P a x = P ([a] -> Maybe (x, [a])) deriving Monoid
>
> and then make MonadPlus/Alternative instances just by copying the
> monoid that results, but it doesn't work!
>
> It's unfortunate that we don't have local quantification in
> constraints, so we can't write (forall x. Monoid (f x)), hence the
> need for constructor classes doing basically the same job, with,
> of necessity, newly renamed members. I think it compounds the
> problem to choose inconsistent behaviour between the constructor
> class and the underlying type class.
>
> Maybe I'm an extremist, but I'd prefer it if every Alternative
> instance was constructed by duplicating a polymorphic Monoid
> instance.
>
> Meanwhile, as for the issue which kicked this off, I do think it's
> good to document and enforce meaningful (i.e. total on total input)
> usages of operations by types where practical. At present, refining
> one type class into several to account for subtle issues (like
> whether some/many actually work) is expensive, even if it's
> desirable. I'd once again plug default superclass instances and
> Control.Newtype, then suggest that the library might benefit from a
> little pruning.
>
> All the best
>
> Conor
>
> _______________________________________________
> Haskell-Cafe mailing list
> Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org
> http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
>
By my reason, the instance (Monoid a => Monoid (Maybe a)) is
appropriate, since we have another class for inner-type-agnostic
choice -- Alternative! (and MonadPlus, but that's essentially the
same, and would be if (Functor m => Applicative m => Monad m), as it
ought).
Cheers,
Matthew Farkas-Dyck
_______________________________________________
Haskell-Cafe mailing list
Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org
http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
