EXCELLENT rant, Jim. Got fired up just reading it. I occasionally annoy our local unix and web programmers by reminding them that their pay is NOT related to the number of directories they create... and reminding them that each level in a path slows down their system. And to even SUGGEST that you put ALL of the executables for an application in the SAME directory.... BLASPHEMY !!! Each programmer has their various types of files squirrled away in various places, and none of them can find the other's stuff without a major search. Amazing to behold. Oh well, all of our problems will be solved when we complete our SAP conversion, so I need not worry.
From: Jim Thomas <j...@thethomasresidence.us> To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Date: 07/18/2011 03:10 PM Subject: Re: Making Z/OS easier - Effectively replacing JCL with Unix like commands Sent by: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu> I have nothing against anything 'new' and highly doubt that other mainframer's do either. Come from the world of Windows or Apple ??.. I am not even going to comment on that. That said, what are we trying to achieve ?? .. the blue screen of death on the mainframes ?? (be it z/OS, z/VM, z/VSE or even z/Linux).IMHO, everybody and their mother, to include IBM has been bent over trying to do the same for at least a decade that I can now state. I don't think I need to point out or bring up too much evidence on how spectacularly specialized and efficient the PC world was in populating and letting the world know, how efficient they were with the 'blue screen of death' and I know that none of you know what I speak of right ??. The 'mainframe' environment has been robust for MANY decades. Is there anybody that can state the same of the PC environment that everybody just insists on incorporating into the mainframe world ??. As both, a former developer and a systems programmer, I can very honestly say that we'd (one way or the other) get out of an unwarranted or unwanted IPL most always (especially with z/OS). Can anybody in the server world say that ??. Seems to me that the defacto action is always CTRL-ALT-DEL .. be it the 'server' or 'router' or whatever else. By the by ... before Winblows 3.1 came out ... I did a lot of work on Novell too ... so I do have some experience, knowledge and exposure to what I speak of. 'old' mainframer's, IMHO, do not have any problems or hesitation with adapting and or using 'new' technology 'when and if it works'. Why is CTRL-ALT-DEL a viable option for replacing mainframe for PC servers when the said company just ends up paying more than they really did with 'an old mainframe'. On the same token, why is an IPL of my MVS image (or PLEX) not acceptable ??... it's the same as CTRL-ALT-DEL is it not ??. AFAIK, us old mainframer's ... want to do our jobs, which is to say, do what we enjoy the most but not want to have to do it repeatedly or redundantly, over and over and over again. I have spoken (rather vehemently unfortunately) to many PC developers and WEB developers that simply could not understand why a given product, system or sub-system that I was owned at that point it time, had not been completely re-written and 're-complied' ... More often than not, after a couple of hours, I gave up and said ... 'because I do not have to re-write and re-compile the world just to feel important or justify my job'. There is also another thread about wanting 'script's instead of JCL... have any of these folks looked into REXX ?? or even CLIST ??. There was some negativity about DCB's ... oh .. okay .. we don't need DCB's but .. lets just have a two and a half mile long PATH that each applications programmer has to maintain and or keep track of. Sure .. yep .. it's very simple and applications programmers will keep a track of them all ........ my foot !!. Were the non mainframe environment at the very least, a little more stable, I'd venture to say that most all, if not all, 'old' systems programmers (or even us 'old' developers) would gladly welcome and incorporate required changes. Lastly and fully knowing that I'm 'rocking the boat' .. what the heck, manager's ?? .. management ??. The only comment I'll make (for the moment) is that a few years ago, I actually had a ... umm .. manager call me and get pissed off in about five minutes into the conversation because he was adamant that 'MVS' meant 'Microsoft Virtual Studio' which was around a lot longer than MVS on the mainframe ... I asked for his academic qualifications and was told that he had an undergrad degree in Journalism. Of course, I blew it because I asked him if he knew how big an idiot he was and if he'd be willing to write about his own stupidity in the local papers ... Ooops !!. Radoslaw, please forgive me but in my experience, nine out ten, supposedly young and open-minded kids don't have a clue what they speak of. Note however, they are not to blame and instead the finger (IMHO) should be pointed at the wonderful universities, the business world and of course, last but definitely not the least and the very most important, the wonderfully smart CEO's that really should (supposedly) be looking out for the company but in reality only look out for their own pockets. I know many a company that follows that trend. IOW, if you nose is not crusted extremely brown, you will be fired, let go, laid off, or whatever the hell else that somebody in some worthless HR department can come up with. Of course, all of this is going to be in the name of 'saving' the company some money !!. I long for the day that the investors wake up !!. Kind Regards Jim Thomas 617-233-4130 (mobile) 636-294-1014 (res) j...@thethomasresidence.us (Email) -----Original Message----- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of R.S. Sent: Monday, July 18, 2011 3:42 PM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: Making Z/OS easier - Effectively replacing JCL with Unix like commands W dniu 2011-07-18 22:15, Paul Gilmartin pisze: [...] > As upper management perceives, even through media such as airline > magazines, that (some; I'm confident not all) z/OS systems programmers > exhibit public delight in unwillingness to assimilate new technology and > in performing their jobs in a needlessly difficult, even painful manner, I'm not 'upper management', I'm very downlevel manager and I don't read airline magazines at all, I prefer some good redbook instead... HOWEVER MY OPINION IS EXACTLY AS THE ABOVE! Yes, majority of mainframe people I ever met do their job in needlessly difficult, sometimes even painful manner. SOme of them are absolutely unwilling to assimilate anything "new", even like DFSMS (is it modern? is it "cool"? did it come from "colorful worlds of Windows, Apple etc."?). Of course there are also people more opne-minded, but the majority... Oh, someone could say there are old farts and young wolves. No, the division is not so simple, I know clever open-minded gray-haired folks and young but very "old-minded" adepts. > it bodes ill for the future of the platform. Yes, I wish it would be untrue. -- Radoslaw Skorupka Lodz, Poland -- Tre tej wiadomoci moe zawiera informacje prawnie chronione Banku przeznaczone wycznie do uytku subowego adresata. Odbiorc moe by jedynie jej adresat z wyczeniem dostpu osób trzecich. Jeeli nie jeste adresatem niniejszej wiadomoci lub pracownikiem upowanionym do jej przekazania adresatowi, informujemy, e jej rozpowszechnianie, kopiowanie, rozprowadzanie lub inne dziaanie o podobnym charakterze jest prawnie zabronione i moe by karalne. Jeeli otrzymae t wiadomo omykowo, prosimy niezwocznie zawiadomi nadawc wysyajc odpowied oraz trwale usun t wiadomo wczajc w to wszelkie jej kopie wydrukowane lub zapisane na dysku. This e-mail may contain legally privileged information of the Bank and is intended solely for business use of the addressee. This e-mail may only be received by the addressee and may not be disclosed to any third parties. If you are not the intended addressee of this e-mail or the employee authorised to forward it to the addressee, be advised that any dissemination, copying, distribution or any other similar activity is legally prohibited and may be punishable. If you received this e-mail by mistake please advise the sender immediately by using the reply facility in your e-mail software and delete permanently this e-mail including any copies of it either printed or saved to hard drive. BRE Bank SA, 00-950 Warszawa, ul. Senatorska 18, tel. +48 (22) 829 00 00, fax +48 (22) 829 00 33, e-mail: i...@brebank.pl Sd Rejonowy dla m. st. Warszawy XII Wydzia Gospodarczy Krajowego Rejestru Sdowego, nr rejestru przedsibiorców KRS 0000025237, NIP: 526-021-50-88. Wedug stanu na dzie 01.01.2011 r. kapita zakadowy BRE Banku SA (w caoci wpacony) wynosi 168.346.696 zotych. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1390 / Virus Database: 1516/3772 - Release Date: 07/18/11 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
