ISP-DSL Digest for Sunday, August 06, 2000. 1. Re: Voice Coop for ISPs 2. Re: Voice Coop for ISPs 3. Re: Looking to resell DSL... 4. Simple question 5. RE: Simple question 6. PPPoE client for Cisco 2600?? 7. Re: Simple question 8. Dry copper! 9. Re: Dry copper! 10. Re[2]: Dry copper! 11. Re: Re[2]: Dry copper! 12. Re: Dry copper! 13. Home Grown Questions 14. Re: Home Grown Questions ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Voice Coop for ISPs From: John Thomas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Sat, 05 Aug 2000 22:55:27 -0700 X-Message-Number: 1 http://www.quicknet.com/ "Marlon K. Schafer" wrote: > > url please! > > thanks, > marlon > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John Thomas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Friday, August 04, 2000 12:17 AM > Subject: Re: Voice Coop for ISPs > > > Have you looked at Quicknet Technologies Linejack and Phonejack > > hardware? Plug the card into the PC, plug the Telephone into the card, > > load software, and you can do voice over IP. The Line jack will > > connect to PBX's and some key systems. You probably could only make a 1 > > time profit on these installs, since I don't see how you could charge a > > monthly fee. Of course the businesses would like to be able to call > > across town for free, and wherever else your ISP sevices. > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Voice Coop for ISPs From: John Thomas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Sat, 05 Aug 2000 22:56:34 -0700 X-Message-Number: 2 No, I haven't used them, I have just seen a few writeups that were positive. Israel Ameh wrote: > > Hi John, > > Have you tried the Quicknet Linejack and Phonejack products? > > I am thinking of trying them out and would like some kind of a user > feedback. > > Thanks > > Israel > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John Thomas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Friday, August 04, 2000 3:17 AM > Subject: Re: Voice Coop for ISPs > > > Have you looked at Quicknet Technologies Linejack and Phonejack > > hardware? Plug the card into the PC, plug the Telephone into the card, > > load software, and you can do voice over IP. The Line jack will > > connect to PBX's and some key systems. You probably could only make a 1 > > time profit on these installs, since I don't see how you could charge a > > monthly fee. Of course the businesses would like to be able to call > > across town for free, and wherever else your ISP sevices. > > > > > > "Marlon K. Schafer" wrote: > > > > > > What's wrong is that I'm in a small market. Only 1000 (not a typo) in > my > > > whole local calling area. There are only 4 t-1's in the whole town > (mine, > > > the other isp, the hospital, and the school) and two of them are paid > for > > > with grants that specifically preclude them purchasing from anyone but > the > > > telco. > > > > > > I resell my t-1 via my wireless distribution system for $35/month. Find > a > > > way for me to integrate your system into mine for an extra $10 > (residential) > > > to $30 (business) and I think it would work for me. Would work much > better > > > for many for that matter..... > > > > > > marlon > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Darrell Hale" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2000 11:31 PM > > > Subject: RE: Voice Coop for ISPs > > > > > > > > > > > Perhaps you don't understand completely. With Voice over DSL, you can > get > > > > > > an extra 8 lines out of a DSL line easily and cost effectively. > > > > > > > > As an ISP, you can offer a package of Voice, Data, and Long Distance > that > > > is > > > > 35-50% under what Bell charges for the same service. > > > > > > > > Now if you can't tell me that you couldn't sell 8 phone lines at $25 a > > > piece > > > > (business lines I might add) and long distance for 5 cents a minute > with > > > no > > > > minimum charge coupled with data for around $300-400 depending on the > LD > > > > bill then I don't know what is wrong. Bell is charging $560 minimum > for > > > the > > > > same services around Dallas... I know because I shopped them. > > > > > > > > You use one DSL line as a integrated service like you might have done > with > > > a > > > > T1 just a few years back. CPE's to support this type of service are > > > around > > > > $700... a modest price considering that is a full router and DSL Modem > or > > > T1 > > > > CSU/DSU. > > > > > > > > Darrell > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Marlon K. Schafer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > > > Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2000 4:35 PM > > > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Subject: Re: Voice Coop for ISPs > > > > > > > > > > > > Very very very few out here could justify anywhere near $500 extra per > > > month > > > > just for long distance. > > > > > > > > I'd love to offer voice over my wireless and dsl systems but people > out > > > here > > > > are paying only $35/month for high speed connections. I'm not going > to be > > > > able to get much more out of them. > > > > > > > > Marlon > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: "Darrell Hale" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2000 6:26 PM > > > > Subject: Voice Coop for ISPs > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For all of those ISPs out there that want to do voice services my > > > company > > > > is > > > > > starting up a voice coop of sorts with various CLECs around the > country > > > > that > > > > > have existing GR-303 capable switches. As well, in conjunction with > > > other > > > > > small switch companies such as Taqua and Network Telco, we can > provide > > > > > end-to-end advice on how to equip a small CLEC for voice services. > > > > Probably > > > > > the first instance of this will be in South Central and South East. > How > > > > > many ISPs out there would be interested in joining into an effot to > get > > > an > > > > > additional $300-500 revenue a month per DSL line to the small > business > > > > > customer? > > > > > > > > > > This is an interest poll as well as any technical or business > questions > > > > you > > > > > might have about how to do Voice over DSL. > > > > > > > > > > Darrell > > > > > > > > > > P.S. Those who use Bell... there might be problems... those who use > > > > > Northpoint, Covad, Rhythmns, New Edge etc. will have better luck > adding > > > > > voice. > > > > > > ^^^^ http://www.genuity.com/dmail/ispoffers/e33.htm ^^^^^ > > > At Genuity, formerly GTE Internetworking and BBN, we give > > > ISP's Tier 1 access through two innovative services > > > Click the above link to learn more and get free research. > > > > > > ______________ . The ISP-DSL Discussion List . ______________ > > > To Join: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > To Remove: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > Archives: http://isp-lists.isp-planet.com/isp-dsl/archives/ > > > > ^^^^ http://www.genuity.com/dmail/ispoffers/e33.htm ^^^^^ > > At Genuity, formerly GTE Internetworking and BBN, we give > > ISP's Tier 1 access through two innovative services > > Click the above link to learn more and get free research. > > > > ______________ . The ISP-DSL Discussion List . ______________ > > To Join: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To Remove: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Archives: http://isp-lists.isp-planet.com/isp-dsl/archives/ > > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > SAVE 65% ON NETOPIA DSL ROUTERS WITH V.90 or ISDN BACKUP! > Give small business customers the redundancy they require. > http://www.netopia.com/equipment/offers/grow/index.html > > ______________ • The ISP-DSL Discussion List • ______________ > To Join: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > To Remove: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Archives: http://isp-lists.isp-planet.com/isp-dsl/archives/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Looking to resell DSL... From: John Thomas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Sat, 05 Aug 2000 22:59:39 -0700 X-Message-Number: 3 That appears to be a good product. I talked to them a few years ago, and the NT Server software was going to be expensive to make them work. If the gateway software is reasonable, then you would have a winner. Originally, the single port version was $995, and when the newer one came out, it was going to be $495 for the single and $995 for the quad port. IF this stuff works, it could save some businesses some $. Jim wrote: > > My point exactly. Why should we waste our time developing this business > for the LECS? > > Unless you have a plan to take their dialup business by doing something > like VOIP. I am looking at the MediaTrix product > http://www.mediatrix.com as putting in as a CPE (Customer Premise > Equipment) to convert voice to ip at the customer location. Then send > out over the internet. > > Jim > CWIA > > Alex Ponnath wrote: > > > > Please tell me, how are you going to make money of $ 39.95 per month ? > > i dont think you can, so i wonder why would someone try to go into consumer > > dsl in the first place... look at flashcom SEC filling, they lost a lot of > > money and they dont have state of art equipment, bad support and the lowest > > cost per subscriber. > > > > i think anyone who sells pac bell dsl in CA as a business model, is ...... > > take your money and enjoy live do waiste it on something like that > > > > my 2 cents... > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Jeff Lasman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > Sent: Friday, August 04, 2000 12:13 AM > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Subject: Re: Looking to resell DSL... > > > > Jim wrote: > > > > > In the PacBell territories of California it seems very difficult to sell > > > DSL. I just had a dialup customer switch to PacBell because their $29.95 > > > rate was significantly below my rate. I asked if this included the > > > internet feed. His answer "yes". > > > > Their website says $39.95. > > > > > We just had someone call us to inquire about our offerings, having > > decided they can't deal with the lack of clue at Pac Bell. Of course > > we're not ready to take advantage of it yet (we're scheduled for Sept. > > 1st <frown>). > > > > Jeff > > -- > > Jeff Lasman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > nobaloney.net > > P. O. Box 52672 > > Riverside, CA 92517 > > voice: (909) 787-8589 * fax: (909) 782-0205 > > > > ^^^^ http://www.genuity.com/dmail/ispoffers/e33.htm ^^^^^ > > At Genuity, formerly GTE Internetworking and BBN, we give > > ISP's Tier 1 access through two innovative services > > Click the above link to learn more and get free research. > > > > ______________ • The ISP-DSL Discussion List • ______________ > > To Join: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To Remove: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Archives: http://isp-lists.isp-planet.com/isp-dsl/archives/ > > > > ______________ • The ISP-DSL Discussion List • ______________ > > To Join: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To Remove: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Archives: http://isp-lists.isp-planet.com/isp-dsl/archives/ > > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > SAVE 65% ON NETOPIA DSL ROUTERS WITH V.90 or ISDN BACKUP! > Give small business customers the redundancy they require. > http://www.netopia.com/equipment/offers/grow/index.html > > ______________ • The ISP-DSL Discussion List • ______________ > To Join: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > To Remove: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Archives: http://isp-lists.isp-planet.com/isp-dsl/archives/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Simple question From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Sean Prouse) Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2000 13:09:25 -0700 X-Message-Number: 4 Is it possible to set up a DSL connection between two users with a leased line without the help of my phone company and a DSLAM? Some way setting up two DSL modems together? Sean ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: RE: Simple question From: "David V. Brenner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2000 11:13:49 -0700 X-Message-Number: 5 You'd still need your telco, unless you plan to go only a relatively short distannce over private property. However, you definitely don't need a DSLAM. All you need is what we on the list call "dry copper". That is, the telco needs to take copper wire from one location and bind it directly to wire from another location, bypassing the switch. They must also remove any load coils and bridged taps from the lines and ensure that the distance between modems and the wire gauge of the telco plant will be sufficient to provide the customer with the desired speed. As an example, I get 384K at 4.5 miles and another list member is getting a full megabit at 3.78 miles, both using PairGain's Megabit Modem 300S. Not sure about the wire gauge in the case of the latter, but our plant is AWG 24. The real problem lies with getting the line itself. Some telcos (especially smaller ones) are more than happy to provide this service, but many others are reluctant because the intended purpose of these types of circuits is typically alarm service. The idea of selling you a $20 circuit, only to have you turn around and sell high-speed data service over it, does not seem to sit well with most phone companies. You'll need to check with your telco to see what they are willing to do. But be forewarned: you may have to speak with several people before you find someone who knows what you're talking about. Calling the data group probably won't get you anywhere and the residential group won't likely know anything, either. Use the term "alarm circuit" and you may get somewhere. David [EMAIL PROTECTED] -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Sean Prouse Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2000 1:09 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Simple question Is it possible to set up a DSL connection between two users with a leased line without the help of my phone company and a DSLAM? Some way setting up two DSL modems together? Sean ^^^^ http://www.genuity.com/dmail/ispoffers/e33.htm ^^^^^ At Genuity, formerly GTE Internetworking and BBN, we give ISP's Tier 1 access through two innovative services Click the above link to learn more and get free research. ______________ • The ISP-DSL Discussion List • ______________ To Join: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Remove: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives: http://isp-lists.isp-planet.com/isp-dsl/archives/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: PPPoE client for Cisco 2600?? From: Jesse Gasteiger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2000 20:06:07 -0400 (EDT) X-Message-Number: 6 Does anyone know if PPPoE client is supported on 2600/3600 routers yet? Ideally I would like to run PPPoE on the exteral interface of CPE routers, using the Nortel 1 Meg Modem that the Telco supports. ----------------------------- Jesse Gasteiger ViaNet Internet Solutions http://www.vianet.on.ca (705) 675-0400 [EMAIL PROTECTED] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Simple question From: "Marlon K. Schafer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2000 18:02:11 -0700 X-Message-Number: 7 www.odessaoffice.com/sdsl.htm ----- Original Message ----- From: "sean prouse" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2000 1:09 PM Subject: Simple question > Is it possible to set up a DSL connection between two users with a leased > line without the help of my phone company and a DSLAM? > > Some way setting up two DSL modems together? > > Sean > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Dry copper! From: Jeffery Williams <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2000 22:08:08 -0400 X-Message-Number: 8 Hello isp-dsl, Good evening, I am new to this particular list however I subscribe to several of the other lists here. Forgive me for not reviewing all of the archives right now, maybe someone can offer a simple outlook on this issue. We are interested in offering DSL service without reselling Covad (Currently this is our process) or Northpoint or the like. The costs associated with co location in a Telco facility is cost prohibitive. My understanding is that ordering Dry copper would allow an ISP to keep the DSLAM equipment local in their own facility. I also understand that obtaining dry copper is nearly impossible at this time, at least this is what I hear. Prior to approaching our local phone company (Ameritech - Ohio) I would see if anyone had some opinions here, maybe things to say or not to say, how to get our way. Any recommendations would be much appreciated. Thank you in advance. -- Best regards, Jeffery [EMAIL PROTECTED] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Dry copper! From: "Vern Burke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2000 22:30:09 -0400 X-Message-Number: 9 The use of "dry copper" pairs to provide DSL is not generally a tarrifed service and your phone company may or may not permit you to do it. You can ask for the pairs as "alarm circuits" but the phone co may give you the boot if they find you using them for DSL or if your DSL usage interferes with anything else in the cable. Or your alarm circuits may contain load coils or bridge taps and the phone co may refuse to remove them without extra charge (and probably requiring an explanation since alarm circuits don't care about load coils or bridge taps). That said, you can try and you might get lucky, others have. The only guaranteed legit way is the CLEC/DLEC route, which we are just completeing here. I don't know what you classify as "prohibitive" but we're looking at breaking even with just a fairly small number of customers in an area of about 12000-14000 people. Vern ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeffery Williams" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2000 10:08 PM Subject: Dry copper! > Hello isp-dsl, > > Good evening, I am new to this particular list however I subscribe to > several of the other lists here. > > Forgive me for not reviewing all of the archives right now, maybe someone > can offer a simple outlook on this issue. > > We are interested in offering DSL service without reselling Covad > (Currently this is our process) or Northpoint or the like. > > The costs associated with co location in a Telco facility is cost > prohibitive. My understanding is that ordering Dry copper would allow an > ISP to keep the DSLAM equipment local in their own facility. > > I also understand that obtaining dry copper is nearly impossible at this > time, at least this is what I hear. > > Prior to approaching our local phone company (Ameritech - Ohio) I would > see if anyone had some opinions here, maybe things to say or not to say, > how to get our way. > > Any recommendations would be much appreciated. Thank you in advance. > > > -- > Best regards, > Jeffery [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > ^^^^ http://www.genuity.com/dmail/ispoffers/e33.htm ^^^^^ > At Genuity, formerly GTE Internetworking and BBN, we give > ISP's Tier 1 access through two innovative services > Click the above link to learn more and get free research. > > ______________ . The ISP-DSL Discussion List . ______________ > To Join: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > To Remove: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Archives: http://isp-lists.isp-planet.com/isp-dsl/archives/ > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re[2]: Dry copper! From: Jeffery Williams <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2000 22:42:36 -0400 X-Message-Number: 10 Hello Vern, Sunday, August 06, 2000, 10:30:09 PM, you wrote: VB> The use of "dry copper" pairs to provide DSL is not generally a tarrifed VB> service and your phone company may or may not permit you to do it. You VB> can ask for the pairs as "alarm circuits" but the phone co may give you the VB> boot if they find you using them for DSL or if your DSL usage interferes VB> with VB> anything else in the cable. Or your alarm circuits may contain load coils or VB> bridge VB> taps and the phone co may refuse to remove them without extra charge (and VB> probably VB> requiring an explanation since alarm circuits don't care about load coils or VB> bridge taps). VB> That said, you can try and you might get lucky, others have. The only VB> guaranteed legit VB> way is the CLEC/DLEC route, which we are just completeing here. I don't know VB> what VB> you classify as "prohibitive" but we're looking at breaking even with just a VB> fairly small VB> number of customers in an area of about 12000-14000 people. VB> Vern VB> ----- Original Message ----- VB> From: "Jeffery Williams" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> VB> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> VB> Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2000 10:08 PM VB> Subject: Dry copper! >> Hello isp-dsl, >> >> Good evening, I am new to this particular list however I subscribe VB> to >> several of the other lists here. >> >> Forgive me for not reviewing all of the archives right now, maybe VB> someone >> can offer a simple outlook on this issue. >> >> We are interested in offering DSL service without reselling VB> Covad >> (Currently this is our process) or Northpoint or the like. >> >> The costs associated with co location in a Telco facility is VB> cost >> prohibitive. My understanding is that ordering Dry copper would allow VB> an >> ISP to keep the DSLAM equipment local in their own facility. >> >> I also understand that obtaining dry copper is nearly impossible at VB> this >> time, at least this is what I hear. >> >> Prior to approaching our local phone company (Ameritech - Ohio) I VB> would >> see if anyone had some opinions here, maybe things to say or not to VB> say, >> how to get our way. >> >> Any recommendations would be much appreciated. Thank you in advance. >> >> >> -- >> Best regards, >> Jeffery [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> >> >> >> ^^^^ http://www.genuity.com/dmail/ispoffers/e33.htm ^^^^^ >> At Genuity, formerly GTE Internetworking and BBN, we give >> ISP's Tier 1 access through two innovative services >> Click the above link to learn more and get free research. >> >> ______________ . The ISP-DSL Discussion List . ______________ >> To Join: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >> To Remove: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >> Archives: http://isp-lists.isp-planet.com/isp-dsl/archives/ >> VB> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ VB> SAVE 65% ON NETOPIA DSL ROUTERS WITH V.90 or ISDN BACKUP! VB> Give small business customers the redundancy they require. VB> http://www.netopia.com/equipment/offers/grow/index.html VB> ______________ • The ISP-DSL Discussion List • ______________ VB> To Join: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] VB> To Remove: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] VB> Archives: http://isp-lists.isp-planet.com/isp-dsl/archives/ We are in an area of nearly 2 million. I am in the Cleveland market. I have not investigated the costs of becoming a CLEC as of yet or the co location fees for Ameritech. My understanding however is that co location can be about 30K for a rack, per month. DSL is sold around here, by Ameritech for 39.00 @ 768K What are the costs, approx. for becoming a CLEC? What are the requirements like? Does this permit you to purchase dry pair or some equivalent from your local LEC or do you still co locate only at wholesale rates? -- Best regards, Jeffery [EMAIL PROTECTED] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Re[2]: Dry copper! From: "Vern Burke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2000 23:05:35 -0400 X-Message-Number: 11 YEEEEEK! 30K per month per RACK? Here in Bell Titanic land I'm at about $300 per month per rack (SCOPE colocation). If you have to build a cage, of course things get more expensive. SCOPE, CCOE, Virtual Colo, or subleasing space in another colocators cage is the way to go when you only need a rack or so space. Lessee, so far I've laid out about $200 in fees (for two registration numbers), nothing for the CLEC approval (did it ourselves). There's a heckuva lot less paperwork involved when you're not doing dialtone. About $4800 in NRC to do the colo, $24K of equipment (leased). The biggest headache was making sure all the equipment for colo was NEBS certified, saved a lot of time by just using things from BA's "reviewed and approved" list. Vern ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeffery Williams" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2000 10:42 PM Subject: Re[2]: Dry copper! > Hello Vern, > > Sunday, August 06, 2000, 10:30:09 PM, you wrote: > > VB> The use of "dry copper" pairs to provide DSL is not generally a tarrifed > VB> service and your phone company may or may not permit you to do it. You > VB> can ask for the pairs as "alarm circuits" but the phone co may give you the > VB> boot if they find you using them for DSL or if your DSL usage interferes > VB> with > VB> anything else in the cable. Or your alarm circuits may contain load coils or > VB> bridge > VB> taps and the phone co may refuse to remove them without extra charge (and > VB> probably > VB> requiring an explanation since alarm circuits don't care about load coils or > VB> bridge taps). > VB> That said, you can try and you might get lucky, others have. The only > VB> guaranteed legit > VB> way is the CLEC/DLEC route, which we are just completeing here. I don't know > VB> what > VB> you classify as "prohibitive" but we're looking at breaking even with just a > VB> fairly small > VB> number of customers in an area of about 12000-14000 people. > > VB> Vern > > > VB> ----- Original Message ----- > VB> From: "Jeffery Williams" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > VB> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > VB> Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2000 10:08 PM > VB> Subject: Dry copper! > > > >> Hello isp-dsl, > >> > >> Good evening, I am new to this particular list however I subscribe > VB> to > >> several of the other lists here. > >> > >> Forgive me for not reviewing all of the archives right now, maybe > VB> someone > >> can offer a simple outlook on this issue. > >> > >> We are interested in offering DSL service without reselling > VB> Covad > >> (Currently this is our process) or Northpoint or the like. > >> > >> The costs associated with co location in a Telco facility is > VB> cost > >> prohibitive. My understanding is that ordering Dry copper would allow > VB> an > >> ISP to keep the DSLAM equipment local in their own facility. > >> > >> I also understand that obtaining dry copper is nearly impossible at > VB> this > >> time, at least this is what I hear. > >> > >> Prior to approaching our local phone company (Ameritech - Ohio) I > VB> would > >> see if anyone had some opinions here, maybe things to say or not to > VB> say, > >> how to get our way. > >> > >> Any recommendations would be much appreciated. Thank you in advance. > >> > >> > >> -- > >> Best regards, > >> Jeffery [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> > >> > >> > >> ^^^^ http://www.genuity.com/dmail/ispoffers/e33.htm ^^^^^ > >> At Genuity, formerly GTE Internetworking and BBN, we give > >> ISP's Tier 1 access through two innovative services > >> Click the above link to learn more and get free research. > >> > >> ______________ . The ISP-DSL Discussion List . ______________ > >> To Join: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> To Remove: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> Archives: http://isp-lists.isp-planet.com/isp-dsl/archives/ > >> > > > VB> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > VB> SAVE 65% ON NETOPIA DSL ROUTERS WITH V.90 or ISDN BACKUP! > VB> Give small business customers the redundancy they require. > VB> http://www.netopia.com/equipment/offers/grow/index.html > > VB> ______________ . The ISP-DSL Discussion List . ______________ > VB> To Join: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > VB> To Remove: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > VB> Archives: http://isp-lists.isp-planet.com/isp-dsl/archives/ > > We are in an area of nearly 2 million. I am in the Cleveland market. > > I have not investigated the costs of becoming a CLEC as of yet or the co > location fees for Ameritech. > > My understanding however is that co location can be about 30K for a rack, > per month. DSL is sold around here, by Ameritech for 39.00 @ 768K > > What are the costs, approx. for becoming a CLEC? What are the requirements > like? Does this permit you to purchase dry pair or some equivalent from > your local LEC or do you still co locate only at wholesale rates? > > > -- > Best regards, > Jeffery [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > ^^^^ http://www.genuity.com/dmail/ispoffers/e33.htm ^^^^^ > At Genuity, formerly GTE Internetworking and BBN, we give > ISP's Tier 1 access through two innovative services > Click the above link to learn more and get free research. > > ______________ . The ISP-DSL Discussion List . ______________ > To Join: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > To Remove: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Archives: http://isp-lists.isp-planet.com/isp-dsl/archives/ > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Dry copper! From: "David R. Dick" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Sun, 6 Aug 100 23:11:34 -0400 (EDT) X-Message-Number: 12 Aside from the issues everyone else has mentioned, don't forget that the distance limitation for using dry copper runs from your location to the telco CO then to the customer site. OTOH, the DSLAM setup in the CO means that only the distance from the CO to the customer has to be counted. > > Hello isp-dsl, > > Good evening, I am new to this particular list however I subscribe to > several of the other lists here. > > Forgive me for not reviewing all of the archives right now, maybe someone > can offer a simple outlook on this issue. > > We are interested in offering DSL service without reselling Covad > (Currently this is our process) or Northpoint or the like. > > The costs associated with co location in a Telco facility is cost > prohibitive. My understanding is that ordering Dry copper would allow an > ISP to keep the DSLAM equipment local in their own facility. > > I also understand that obtaining dry copper is nearly impossible at this > time, at least this is what I hear. > > Prior to approaching our local phone company (Ameritech - Ohio) I would > see if anyone had some opinions here, maybe things to say or not to say, > how to get our way. > > Any recommendations would be much appreciated. Thank you in advance. > > > -- > Best regards, > Jeffery [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > ^^^^ http://www.genuity.com/dmail/ispoffers/e33.htm ^^^^^ > At Genuity, formerly GTE Internetworking and BBN, we give > ISP's Tier 1 access through two innovative services > Click the above link to learn more and get free research. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Home Grown Questions From: Eagle's Lair & Web Services <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Sun, 06 Aug 2000 21:22:37 -0700 X-Message-Number: 13 Marlon, I have re-read your web page on your DSL application. I have a couple of questions for you. In your description of distances, you said there is a distance of 20K to your CO and then another 6K to the hospital for a total of 26K feet. Is this true or am I missing something. Currently we have deployed a DSL Max 20 (DSLAM) and are using Netopia R-7100 (cpe gear). If the line distance is less than 18K they will sink. I have 3 customers who are not much farther out, farthest one is 22K. I am thinking on putting in the Net to Net. I have yet the find the gear you are using on either site you mention (net to net or pair gain). Since you are the home grown guru, I am asking you. How did you configure peice of the equipment to get out of your network into the Net. Don't you have to tell it the gateway (main router) so it knows where to go? Would you be so kind as to enlighten me please. TIA Rusty Mann Eagle's Lair & Web Services, Inc. 541-383-1767 www.eagleslair.net ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Home Grown Questions From: Dan Hollis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2000 21:29:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Message-Number: 14 On Sun, 6 Aug 2000, Eagle's Lair & Web Services wrote: > Currently we have deployed a DSL Max 20 (DSLAM) and are using Netopia R-7100 > (cpe gear). If the line distance is less than 18K they will sink. I have 3 > customers who are not much farther out, farthest one is 22K. I am thinking on > putting in the Net to Net. Out of all the PTP boxes we have used, the Wailan stuff seemed to have the longest reach. Take a look at the Wailan Agate 200, it may work for you. And no, we aren't resellers making a sales pitch. :-) We're an ISP. -Dan --- END OF DIGEST --- You are currently subscribed to isp-dsl as: archive@jab.org
