My question is - in both Gujarat and Orissa, the BJP is in power. Why hasn't it used lawful means to stop conversions? Why does conversion issue directly lead to violence?
In case of Orissa, it is very clear that the Maoists have killed Swamiji. This was announced by Vamshadhara Committee of the Maoists within hours of the killing and then reaffirmed. To keep on insisting that Christians have killed Swamiji, and to use that to launch deliberate and direct attacks on a minority, killing innocent people, burning churches and houses- is that justified as per our law and constitution. Everyone here is aware about the genocides caused through religion across history - and one generally accepts that the conglomeration of faiths that we called hinduism have been more tolerant and assimilative then the semitic faiths such as christianity and Islam. But must we, in this age and time, living in a democratic state, take law into our own hands and start killing innocent people. Is that not terrorism? What we see with Hindutva and Hindutva forces is their effort to copy the worst aspect of semitic religions and transplant it into hindu faith, using religion as the basis of nation building. To transform what is essentially a pluralistic, diverse society into a society with a common identity, what serves better than to stand up "the other" whether it be muslims or Christians. At the same time, it becomes the route to power, which would again be used to further this agenda. But we must remember that in this modern times, no state can be build purely on religions faith or on identity politics - this is specially true of a nation that is so diverse and pluralistic. The framers of our constitution understood this very well. We can see what has happened to Pakistan. That way lies fascism, chaos and perdition. In an age where even a small minority can reach out to technology and destroy large number of lives, can we afford a nation and polity based on hatred and exclusion. Force doesn't work and there is always a blowback - see the experience of the world's sole hyperpower - being forced out of Iraq by next two years, their tails between their legs; and Russia thumbing their nose at them. For the same reason, the Maoists will be rejected by the vast majority of Indian people, inspite of the suffering and deprivation that they suffer at the hands on an indiferent State and elite. We must follow the rule of law; and change the laws where they are unjust or impractical. Taking law into one's own hands, specially for carrying out violence against other citizens, is terrorism and thuggery and a lawful citizenry should never tolerate that.Friends who feel that christian missionaries are unfairly "converting" adivasies to christianity are welcome to go to the courts; or if the laws are not good enough, get their representatives to pass new laws. Why do they condone violence? Can't the middle class that supports the lumpen elements to loot and rape realise that sooner or later these elements will turn on them. The increasing economic divide and the frustration among unemployed youth finds an outlet in such violence - after the Christians and Muslims, who would be their next targets- the affluent Hindus? Religious fundamentalism and intolerance by the majority community is the greatest threat to the Indian nation, its constitution and our democracy. Regards Kundan On 8/30/08, venkata subramanian <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > Jharkhand Forum <http://www.jharkhand.org.in/> > <http://egroups.com/list/Jharkhand> > * * > > > Well , well, Cyprian and Anjali > > It needs only a pedestrian intellect to know or guess where the mischief > came from. Well, if you want to know of World Vision and its notorities > follow this link to know what they did in Sri Lanka- > > > > ***************link is removed by moderator******* > > I was a contributor to this organisation through my credit card company ten > years ago but when I knew of their activities, I stopped funding them. > > And I request Cyprian to visit Tamilnadu, and suit himself with the > 'adivasi' type of church for him. No other higher caste church will offer > him seats! But I promise Arya Samaj like organisations will initiate him > into Sandhya and give him the sacred thread, and will introduce him to All > the four Vedas. You will be really be made into the purohit that you want to > be. So get your applications typed rightaway. It was your promise. Anjali > will also find to her utter dismay that no castes are there in Arya samaji > world. But for amusement she will find many Nadar Christians, Chetty > christians, Naidu Christians, Reddy(YSR Reddy) christians and so on. > > Anyone listening, do not go by those imposters who assume high moral > grounds in denouncing Hinduism. > > For all of you, I have this information. It is not Hinduism that is > clinging to caste system. It is the secular state of India that is. In one > stroke , they could have disbanded it in 1947. They did not. Look at the > overseas Hindu community that has been so successful in spreading Hinduism > far and wide. They did not carry the casteist tag. Iskcon had , by 2006, > purchased 500 odd churches in Europe alone and converted them into Iskcon > Temples. Villages after Villages are followers of Iskcon. The core point is > that no force, no allopathic medicine in the name of Hallelujah, no > harvesting of souls, no inquistion, no crusade wars and no aggression did > it. Simply the power of Hinduistic ideals of Yoga ,and Dhyana did it. > (which these churches are desperately trying to ape) > > If Cyprian was curious enough to have called up world vision and even the > Police, why did he not have the same urge to clarify that with Pioneer ? I > have come across many net articles to show the complicity of the Church and > comrades and maoists. They replace one another in many places. The maoistsin > Nepal are principally a christian force. He can get enough material from the > net. > > The christists have only one agenda in India. That of grabbing the nation. > They already have pocketed Northeast where a religious separatist struggle > is on with the full backing of the Church. Ask any army man who has served > in the north east and he will tell you with anger the complicity of the > Church in the separatist insurgency. See this > http://www.stephen-knapp.com/baptist_church_backs_terrorism.htm > > I was also a simple , so called apologetic Hindu fed day in and day out by > the pseudo secular media about these ' innocent Christian' acts. But thanks > to internet and the growing awareness among Hindus about their unique > identity, **************************** I am no longer apologetic about my > Identity and if someone wishes to call me Right winger, or Hindutva man , I > would rather welcome it. But let the comments come from right minded people > , not from pseudos and christists. > > > > Venkat > > On Sat, Aug 30, 2008 at 11:01 AM, anjali deshpande <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: > >> >> >> >> Jharkhand Forum <http://www.jharkhand.org.in/> >> <http://egroups.com/list/Jharkhand> >> * * >> >> >> this comes straight from the heart! it was the best i have read yet in >> this 'academic' discussion. hindus don't convert because they don't which >> caste to prescribe to the convert. many years ago, in 1981 i think, a hand >> full of us activists, mostly women, had published a leaflet with a series of >> questions including one to the effect, 'if all hindus are one, will any >> dalit be allowed to become a shankaracharya?' we were distributing it at a >> rally of hindus at india gate in delhi when we were attacked, the clothes of >> one of our friends were torn off, the other was beaten up badly and they >> could escape only because a male activist friend joined the 'mob' and said >> 'hinduism prevents us from doing worse things to women so get away,' and an >> autorickshaw luckily came our way. these people are dangerous! >> >> in the northeast too the 'parivar' is trying hard to coopt 'tribal' gods, >> build temples where there are none (and why should there be if the people >> till now lived without needing them?) and christians are building churches >> (why is there any need for them if people managed without them for so >> long?). >> >> why should identity depend on some buildings devoted to some gods and some >> rituals? that is what we need to ask and we need to understand how the >> promotion of identity politics at the international level is being reflected >> and is stirring up the already murky waters of religious politics in our >> country. but that becomes academic too! >> >> i had begun this only to tell you how your response touched my heart. got >> carried away. >> >> anjali deshpande >> >> On 8/29/08, Cyprian Ekka <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Jharkhand Forum <http://www.jharkhand.org.in/> >>> <http://egroups.com/list/Jharkhand> >>> * * >>> >>> >>> Please stop the 'academic' discussion. I am a born Christian, as you >>> may guess from my name. And, hold your fanatic breath, I am a tribal too. >>> Who should know better if my ancestors were Hindus or not? They never were. >>> And I am proud they weren't (even if I weren't a Christian). I still follow >>> my ancestral religion, customs and traditions. I pray to the 'tribal' God >>> (sic) and Christian God too. Todate they have not quarelled with one >>> another. Neither has the Church told me not to pray to a 'tribal' God. >>> Why should anyone else have a problem with that? Incidently, I feel doubly >>> fortunate not to have fallen prey to the Vanwasi Kalyan Ashramites, who seem >>> to develp ulcer calling me an Adivasi. The Saffrons want me to 'return' to >>> Hinduism, right? Watch out! Return, you said? What return? Where return? Who >>> is the oldest dweller of the soil, the blood curdling fanatics or Adivasis? >>> Is that not why my 'Adivasiyat' has been recycled into 'Vanvasiyat'? If I >>> wish, I may embrace Hinduism right now (online, if Vedas certify it as >>> valid). >>> >>> May I ask the Saffron brigage if they will grant me a Brahmin's status >>> and make me the chief pujari at Puri temple or Akshardham temple or what >>> have you? If yes, I may start typing an application letter right away. But >>> don't tell me to hate other religions and their followers. That's not the >>> Hinduism I may love to convert to. I studied Hinduism and several other >>> Indian religions. None taught me to hate others. I can recite and comment on >>> some shlokas of Bhagwadgeeta off the bat. I even meditate on them. I loved >>> watching 'Ramayan' tele-serial and have already read the Hindu epics with >>> relish. I love to participate in spiritual discourses of some Hindu sects >>> (certainly not those sponsored by the Brigade). Which edition of Hinduism >>> are you talking about? >>> >>> Cyprian Ekka >>> >>> --- >>> >>> >> >> __._,_ >> > > >
