Hi Pradeep,
Well, bear in mind, Windows Sound Recorder is not a multi-track recorder. So
that's out of the equasion altogether!
It doesn't even record a stereo Wave signal for more than 60 seconds.
Anyway just had to kill the dead!<smile>
Yamuna
----- Original Message -----
From: Pradip Chandra Sikdar
To: JSonar -- JAWS Scripts for Sonar discussion list
Sent: Monday, July 25, 2011 4:18 PM
Subject: Re: [Jsonar] Windows or mac?
hey! what to say, it is really a nice opinion!
the 2 small toy of windows, "narrator" and "windows sound recorder" is just
priceless! :-)
I also believe that, specially the sound professionals should stick with the
Sonar in window. the beginners like me, may try pro tools. but in other hand,
though, I might be wrong, if some of the blind sound professionals do not use
pro tools, then, who will give feat back to Apple about the bugs in
accessibility?
I know, some engineer are there to look after it, and they are getting money
for that. but in the last 10 months I am with the JSonar family. I am very very
happy to see the contribution of the sound professionals in finding bugs, as
well as making some suggestions for them.
if I have been ever asked to find some bugs in sonar either in window, or in
mac, I will be in the jungle without a white cane! because I know a very little
about Sonar as well as sound engineering.
so, I personally think, if some of you partially use pro tools and also use
Sonar for your professional project, it will be very helpful for the
development of accessibility in Mac.
kind regards,
Pradeep
On 7/25/2011 7:13 PM, Yamuna Jivana dasa wrote:
Hi there,
It seems the Mac Vs PC accessibility studio discussions are still coming up from
time to time!<smile> So here's my take on it from what I have heard doing the
rounds these days.
Sonar under Windows has many years of accessibility implemented by way of
the free JSonar scripts, and also it has many audio effects and soft synth
plugins which have been made accessible to us through the front-end mouse
clicking program called Hot Spot Clicker, which very very basically, allows the
user to move the mouse to desired locations within the application, and click
at that spot,, all of this by attaching that function to a hotkey on the
keyboard. Using this program, we can now use many plugins which make Midi with
Sonar so dynamic. We can use various soft synths such as Dymension Pro,,
Session drummer and SFZ; we can use effects such as the suite of Sonitus
plugins including reverb, chorus, EQ and Compressors Etc. We can also use some
instruments and audio effects which are not part of Sonar directly but are
developed by other developers, where users of Sonar have spotted up those
plugins for us and made them accessible because of Hot Spot Clicker. So that's
the deal with music production accessibility under Windows.
On the other hand, Pro Tools under Mac is now becoming accessible. The mac
has its very own built-in screen-reader by the way, called Voice over. In
manipulating the Mac operating system and other applications under the Mac,
I'm told it is very intuitive. However the programmers at ProTools are trying
to make pro tools accessible to Voice Over, part by part. Thus far, while it
is becoming more accessible very quickly, it is still very quirky. Not only
that, they are far from successful at getting Audio FX plugins and soft synth
plugins to read in Voice over, and as you must know as a producer, those are
what we need access to which make the difference between the average home audio
enthusiast and the professional studio engineer. Apparently the reason for the
lacking in Pro Tools is that many of the older Pro Tools plugins were
programmed in a language not understandable by Voice over, so that Voice Over
will only see a blank interface in some cases.
So, While you can make basic music with ProTools and use limited effects,
your ability to tweek to your liking is very limited. And of course the
quirkiness of Pro tools accessibility will slow you down and reduce creativity
by forcing more attention to getting around the applications, at least at this
stage of their accessibility development.
The Mac also comes with a standard program called Garage Band, which also
allows you to record your tracks, but it uses the standard midi implementation
but having some great sounds, which comes built-in, and again, while it is more
accessible, is also very entry-level, with not much scope of using different
soft synths, audio effects, Etc.
Having said that, I must admit that Apple is really speeding ahead with
their focus on accessibility, as compared to former years. However, More than
this, I must mention, is that what the Mac gives us as part of their operating
system in terms of accessibility via Voice Over, and what they give us in their
operating system in terms of music multi-track layering software by way of
Garage Band, is far, far, far, far superior to what the Windows people give us
from Microsoft in their operating systems on both fronts. Windows gives us
Narrator, which is the most hopeless screen-reader ever developed, and they
give us no multi-track recording software. Therefore, for the new blind muso
who just wants to get started, where all the basic tools are included in one
place, the Mac is probably the way to go.
They are far behind at the moment when it comes to the serious audio
production accessibility tools in Pro Tools and especially the various
instruments and effects plugins , but at the speed they are moving forward, I
do not think it will take too long before they eventually catch up and even
over take us in Windows.
Of course, one could argue that Pro tools is the industry standards, and
while some blind producers have taken the adventurous plunge, many of us prefer
to stick with maximum accessibility to more effects and instruments, which,
after all, is what we need to use to make our music.
For me personally, the day will come when I will move over to Mac, Voice
over and Pro Tools, once I have heard convincing reviews that it is on power
with what we have now in Windows, thanks to JSonar, Hot Spot Clicker, and all
these great people who make each plugin accessible by getting sighted help and
spotting them up for us under Windows.
But I think that day when Pro Tools will catch up is far away enough that
I need not start holding my breath just yet. Remember that under Windows we
have years ahead in mature accessibility development under Sonar and HSC, so
the comparison must take that into account.
It's your call, really, whether to take the plunge to the Mac side now or
later. The advantage of doing it now, is that you can start on your long
learning curve, so that by the time things improve with Mac Audio Plugin
accessibility and Pro Tools, you should be right in the swing of things by that
time.
Finally, would be Nice to hear other views also, don't just take my
opinion, as I am a Sonar user at the moment and have only heard great things
about Mac and how things are coming along with accessibility on that front. I
haven't played with it for myself.
If anyone wants to discuss this further, you can talk to me on Skype. I will not be able to entertain
further E-mail writing because of time limitations on my side. My Skype username is ykhandoo. Full name
"Yamuna Jivana dasa". So let's talk instead. If you ad me as a contact on Skype, please mention
"Audio Production Accessibility" in the "add a contact" request, so that I can recognize
who is requesting me to add them. I am usually available to talk between 6 AM and 2 PM GMT while at work.
Kind regards,
Yamuna Jivana dasa
----- Original Message -----
From: [email protected]
To: JSonar -- JAWS Scripts for Sonar list
Sent: Friday, July 22, 2011 6:54 PM
Subject: [Jsonar] Windows or mac?
Our next purchase, after we actually purchase monitors that work and
don't pop and hiss, is a new computer. Darrell is all about mac this and mac
that. He says mac is best. Can I use sonar with mac? Are macs blind
friendly? I tried to tell him that I didn't think mac would work well with
sonar. He isn't really believing me. I'm afraid it would end up being an
accessibility issue. If both of us are going to use a computer that's mostly
for music... wouldn't it make sense to have something that both of us can use?
So remind me again why it's better to have a desktop? Is it a hard drive
issue? Would I still be using a audio interface like m audio to plug into
everything? What is the difference between a computer designed for music and
one that isn't? The bad thing is that I'd also have to get speakers and a
monitor to clutter up my already crowded table.
_______________________________________________
Find JSonar and Sonar FAQs, articles, guides and downloads at jsonar.org.
Jsonar mailing list
[email protected]
http://jsonar.org/mailman/listinfo/jsonar_jsonar.org
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 10.0.1390 / Virus Database: 1518/3787 - Release Date: 07/25/11
_______________________________________________
Find JSonar and Sonar FAQs, articles, guides and downloads at jsonar.org.
Jsonar mailing list
[email protected]
http://jsonar.org/mailman/listinfo/jsonar_jsonar.org
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________
Find JSonar and Sonar FAQs, articles, guides and downloads at jsonar.org.
Jsonar mailing list
[email protected]
http://jsonar.org/mailman/listinfo/jsonar_jsonar.org
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 10.0.1390 / Virus Database: 1516/3786 - Release Date: 07/24/11
From - Tue Jul 26 00:28:59 2011
X-Mozilla-Status: 0001
X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000
Delivered-To: [email protected]
Received: by 10.216.48.78 with SMTP id u56cs92683web;
Mon, 25 Jul 2011 08:29:36 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by 10.68.25.65 with SMTP id a1mr1746518pbg.407.1311607774636;
Mon, 25 Jul 2011 08:29:34 -0700 (PDT)
Return-Path:<[email protected]>
Received: from server.icevi.org ([64.50.168.100])
by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id
a15si16401845wfe.131.2011.07.25.08.29.32
(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER);
Mon, 25 Jul 2011 08:29:33 -0700 (PDT)
Received-SPF: neutral (google.com: 64.50.168.100 is neither permitted nor
denied by best guess record for domain of [email protected])
client-ipd.50.168.100;
Authentication-Results: mx.google.com; spf=neutral (google.com: 64.50.168.100
is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of
[email protected]) [email protected]
Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=server.icevi.org)
by server.icevi.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69)
(envelope-from<[email protected]>)
id 1QlN60-00030y-Sc; Mon, 25 Jul 2011 08:29:05 -0700
Received: from mxout11.netvision.net.il ([194.90.6.39])
by server.icevi.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69)
(envelope-from<[email protected]>) id 1QlN5u-00030t-LN
for [email protected]; Mon, 25 Jul 2011 08:29:01 -0700
MIME-version: 1.0
Received: from roydesktop ([217.132.78.243]) by mxout11.netvision.net.il
(Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u3-15.01 64bit (built Feb 12
2010)) with ESMTPA id<[email protected]> for
[email protected]; Mon, 25 Jul 2011 18:29:19 +0300 (IDT)
Message-id:<AF51A84586A54DEFAF6A785E3D502886@roydesktop>
From: Roy Shtupler<[email protected]>
To: JSonar -- JAWS Scripts for Sonar discussion list<[email protected]>
References:<7BEB4C0CFF38443085A3A33118621354@MichellePC>
<45CB73040AC84F1F822EF6D6F1629106@gauralaptop>
<[email protected]>
Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2011 18:29:56 +0300
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5931
X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6109
X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.1
X-Spam-Score: 11
X-Spam-Bar: +
X-Ham-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "server.icevi.org",
has
identified this incoming email as possible spam. The original message
has been attached to this so you can view it (if it isn't spam) or
label similar future email. If you have any questions, see
the administrator of that system for details.
Content preview: let's also not forget Reaper;
very small , LiteWeight , accessible (via ReaAccess) ,
VoiceOver support improved much in the latest v4 betas.
a really good bank for the buck. the support team is cooperative and
helpful. am now doing some remix projects with it;
real joy. all the very best Roy.
www.soundclick.com/tzackeek ----- Original Message ----- From: Pradip
Chandra
Sikdar To: JSonar -- JAWS Scripts for Sonar discussion list Sent:
Monday,
July 25, 2011 5:18 PM Subject: Re: [Jsonar] Windows or mac? [...]
Content analysis details: (1.1 points, 10.0 required)
pts rule name description
---- ----------------------
--------------------------------------------------
-0.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE RBL: Sender listed at http://www.dnswl.org/,
low trust [194.90.6.39 listed in list.dnswl.org]
2.2 RCVD_IN_NJABL_PROXY RBL: NJABL: sender is an open proxy
[217.132.78.243 listed in combined.njabl.org]
1.7 URIBL_BLACK Contains an URL listed in the URIBL blacklist
[URIs: soundclick.com]
-0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record
-1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1%
[score: 0.0000]
0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message
-1.0 AWL AWL: From: address is in the auto white-list
X-Spam-Flag: NO
Subject: Re: [Jsonar] Windows or mac?
X-BeenThere: [email protected]
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Roy Shtupler<[email protected]>,
JSonar -- JAWS Scripts for Sonar discussion list<[email protected]>
List-Id: JSonar -- JAWS Scripts for Sonar discussion list
<jsonar_jsonar.org.jsonar.org>
List-Unsubscribe:<http://jsonar.org/mailman/options/jsonar_jsonar.org>,
<mailto:[email protected]?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive:<http://jsonar.org/pipermail/jsonar_jsonar.org>
List-Post:<mailto:[email protected]>
List-Help:<mailto:[email protected]?subject=help>
List-Subscribe:<http://jsonar.org/mailman/listinfo/jsonar_jsonar.org>,
<mailto:[email protected]?subject=subscribe>
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0363016459=="
Errors-To: [email protected]
Sender: [email protected]
X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any
abuse report
X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - server.icevi.org
X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - gmail.com
X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12]
X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - jsonar.org
X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 110725-0, 07/25/2011), Inbound message
X-Antivirus-Status: Clean
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--===============0363016459==
Content-type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="Boundary_(ID_rfBzckytf+H/YqsB3qaz/Q)"
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--Boundary_(ID_rfBzckytf+H/YqsB3qaz/Q)
Content-type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable
let's also not forget Reaper; very small , LiteWeight , accessible (via
ReaAccess) , VoiceOver support improved much in the latest v4 betas.
a really good bank for the buck.
the support team is cooperative and helpful.
am now doing some remix projects with it; real joy.
all the very best
Roy.
www.soundclick.com/tzackeek
----- Original Message -----
From: Pradip Chandra Sikdar
To: JSonar -- JAWS Scripts for Sonar discussion list
Sent: Monday, July 25, 2011 5:18 PM
Subject: Re: [Jsonar] Windows or mac?
hey! what to say, it is really a nice opinion!
the 2 small toy of windows, "narrator" and "windows sound recorder" is just
priceless! :-)
I also believe that, specially the sound professionals should stick with the
Sonar in window. the beginners like me, may try pro tools. but in other hand,
though, I might be wrong, if some of the blind sound professionals do not use
pro tools, then, who will give feat back to Apple about the bugs in
accessibility?
I know, some engineer are there to look after it, and they are getting money
for that. but in the last 10 months I am with the JSonar family. I am very very
happy to see the contribution of the sound professionals in finding bugs, as
well as making some suggestions for them.
if I have been ever asked to find some bugs in sonar either in window, or in
mac, I will be in the jungle without a white cane! because I know a very little
about Sonar as well as sound engineering.
so, I personally think, if some of you partially use pro tools and also use
Sonar for your professional project, it will be very helpful for the
development of accessibility in Mac.
kind regards,
Pradeep
On 7/25/2011 7:13 PM, Yamuna Jivana dasa wrote:
Hi there,
It seems the Mac Vs PC accessibility studio discussions are still coming up from
time to time!<smile> So here's my take on it from what I have heard doing the
rounds these days.
Sonar under Windows has many years of accessibility implemented by way of
the free JSonar scripts, and also it has many audio effects and soft synth
plugins which have been made accessible to us through the front-end mouse
clicking program called Hot Spot Clicker, which very very basically, allows the
user to move the mouse to desired locations within the application, and click
at that spot,, all of this by attaching that function to a hotkey on the
keyboard. Using this program, we can now use many plugins which make Midi with
Sonar so dynamic. We can use various soft synths such as Dymension Pro,,
Session drummer and SFZ; we can use effects such as the suite of Sonitus
plugins including reverb, chorus, EQ and Compressors Etc. We can also use some
instruments and audio effects which are not part of Sonar directly but are
developed by other developers, where users of Sonar have spotted up those
plugins for us and made them accessible because of Hot Spot Clicker. So that's
the deal with music production accessibility under Windows.
On the other hand, Pro Tools under Mac is now becoming accessible. The mac
has its very own built-in screen-reader by the way, called Voice over. In
manipulating the Mac operating system and other applications under the Mac,
I'm told it is very intuitive. However the programmers at ProTools are trying
to make pro tools accessible to Voice Over, part by part. Thus far, while it
is becoming more accessible very quickly, it is still very quirky. Not only
that, they are far from successful at getting Audio FX plugins and soft synth
plugins to read in Voice over, and as you must know as a producer, those are
what we need access to which make the difference between the average home audio
enthusiast and the professional studio engineer. Apparently the reason for the
lacking in Pro Tools is that many of the older Pro Tools plugins were
programmed in a language not understandable by Voice over, so that Voice Over
will only see a blank interface in some cases.
So, While you can make basic music with ProTools and use limited effects,
your ability to tweek to your liking is very limited. And of course the
quirkiness of Pro tools accessibility will slow you down and reduce creativity
by forcing more attention to getting around the applications, at least at this
stage of their accessibility development.
The Mac also comes with a standard program called Garage Band, which also
allows you to record your tracks, but it uses the standard midi implementation
but having some great sounds, which comes built-in, and again, while it is more
accessible, is also very entry-level, with not much scope of using different
soft synths, audio effects, Etc.
Having said that, I must admit that Apple is really speeding ahead with
their focus on accessibility, as compared to former years. However, More than
this, I must mention, is that what the Mac gives us as part of their operating
system in terms of accessibility via Voice Over, and what they give us in their
operating system in terms of music multi-track layering software by way of
Garage Band, is far, far, far, far superior to what the Windows people give us
from Microsoft in their operating systems on both fronts. Windows gives us
Narrator, which is the most hopeless screen-reader ever developed, and they
give us no multi-track recording software. Therefore, for the new blind muso
who just wants to get started, where all the basic tools are included in one
place, the Mac is probably the way to go.
They are far behind at the moment when it comes to the serious audio
production accessibility tools in Pro Tools and especially the various
instruments and effects plugins , but at the speed they are moving forward, I
do not think it will take too long before they eventually catch up and even
over take us in Windows.
Of course, one could argue that Pro tools is the industry standards, and
while some blind producers have taken the adventurous plunge, many of us prefer
to stick with maximum accessibility to more effects and instruments, which,
after all, is what we need to use to make our music.
For me personally, the day will come when I will move over to Mac, Voice
over and Pro Tools, once I have heard convincing reviews that it is on power
with what we have now in Windows, thanks to JSonar, Hot Spot Clicker, and all
these great people who make each plugin accessible by getting sighted help and
spotting them up for us under Windows.
But I think that day when Pro Tools will catch up is far away enough that
I need not start holding my breath just yet. Remember that under Windows we
have years ahead in mature accessibility development under Sonar and HSC, so
the comparison must take that into account.
It's your call, really, whether to take the plunge to the Mac side now or
later. The advantage of doing it now, is that you can start on your long
learning curve, so that by the time things improve with Mac Audio Plugin
accessibility and Pro Tools, you should be right in the swing of things by that
time.
Finally, would be Nice to hear other views also, don't just take my
opinion, as I am a Sonar user at the moment and have only heard great things
about Mac and how things are coming along with accessibility on that front. I
haven't played with it for myself.
If anyone wants to discuss this further, you can talk to me on Skype. I will not be able to entertain
further E-mail writing because of time limitations on my side. My Skype username is ykhandoo. Full name
"Yamuna Jivana dasa". So let's talk instead. If you ad me as a contact on Skype, please mention
"Audio Production Accessibility" in the "add a contact" request, so that I can recognize
who is requesting me to add them. I am usually available to talk between 6 AM and 2 PM GMT while at work.
Kind regards,
Yamuna Jivana dasa
----- Original Message -----
From: [email protected]
To: JSonar -- JAWS Scripts for Sonar list
Sent: Friday, July 22, 2011 6:54 PM
Subject: [Jsonar] Windows or mac?
Our next purchase, after we actually purchase monitors that work and
don't pop and hiss, is a new computer. Darrell is all about mac this and mac
that. He says mac is best. Can I use sonar with mac? Are macs blind
friendly? I tried to tell him that I didn't think mac would work well with
sonar. He isn't really believing me. I'm afraid it would end up being an
accessibility issue. If both of us are going to use a computer that's mostly
for music... wouldn't it make sense to have something that both of us can use?
So remind me again why it's better to have a desktop? Is it a hard drive
issue? Would I still be using a audio interface like m audio to plug into
everything? What is the difference between a computer designed for music and
one that isn't? The bad thing is that I'd also have to get speakers and a
monitor to clutter up my already crowded table.
_______________________________________________
