Well said, although I think it is dangerous to use 'mankind' as if it could be described as a cohesive whole. Better might be to describe the problem as affecting citizens of modern democratic societies. As for them, I think the alternatives they will look to are clear enough.
On Wed, Nov 4, 2009 at 11:47 AM, Simon Friedrich <simonfriedr...@yahoo.de>wrote: > > > Exactly! - but unfortunately most of mankind still looks outside itself to > technology to save it. And it will continue to do so, until technological > power brings the level of catastrophe upon us, whose cause is obviously and > undeniably mankind's ignorance and presumption. > > That is, technology needs to fail decisively before mankind will understand > why it failed and turn away from technical solutions back towards cultural > and spiritual ones. The danger is that when this decisive failure happens - > which it must - mankind will already have become so dull and unreflective > that he will not even see the connection. > > > Simon > http://ernst-juenger.blogspot.com > > > ------------------------------ > *Von:* klaus gauger <klaus_gau...@yahoo.com> > *An:* juenger_org@yahoogroups.de > *Gesendet:* Dienstag, den 3. November 2009, 12:34:35 Uhr > > *Betreff:* AW: AW: [juenger_org] Heidegger, Nietzsche, Juenger, > seinvergessenheit, etc > > > > Dear Simon, > > > The concept of "the worker" are based on the use of technology. Though > Jünger was later more critical about technology, he never gave up the > conceptions of "the worker". Technology ist only an instrument and > technological knowledge is instrumental knowledge. If technology is a > failure, this is only so because mankind is not intelligent and smart enough > to avoid the bad use of technology. So the failure of technology - if this > will be the end of the technological process - will be in fact more the > failure of mankind. If mankind improves also the moral standards of the > human beings, the use of technology will become also better. It is important > not to improve only our technology, it is also important to improve > ourselves as human beings bound the standards of real humanity and human > values. > > > Yours, > > Klaus > > > > --- Simon Friedrich *<simonfriedr...@yahoo.de>* schrieb am *Di, 3.11.2009: > * > > * > Von: Simon Friedrich <simonfriedr...@yahoo.de> > Betreff: AW: AW: [juenger_org] Heidegger, Nietzsche, Juenger, > seinvergessenheit, etc > An: juenger_org@yahoogroups.de > Datum: Dienstag, 3. November 2009, 11:05 > > * > * ** * > *Klaus, I concur with all you say but I am curious, if you can find a > moment free from the Referendariat, to explain where Juenger saw real > chances for technology to solve important problems for mankind. > > I would rather say that he saw possibilities which in the same moment he > realized would never become reality due to the inadequacy of the actors > involved, in short, mankind. > > Technology WILL succeed, achieve its own ends, or better put, the earth's > ends. But whether mankind benefits, even if the opportunities are wide open, > is another question altogether. Aladdin's Problem in short - choice. > * > * * > *Simon** > http://ernst- juenger.blogspot .com <http://ernst-juenger.blogspot.com/> > * > * > * > * > * > * > ------------------------------ > Von: klaus gauger <klaus_gauger@ yahoo.com> > An: juenger_org@ yahoogroups. de > Gesendet: Montag, den 2. November 2009, 18:41:49 Uhr > Betreff: AW: [juenger_org] Heidegger, Nietzsche, Juenger, > seinvergessenheit, etc > > > > * > Hi Simon, > > > thanks for your mails. But I am so involved in the "Referendariat" at the > moment that I don´t have time to give long explanations in English of > Heideggers philosophical concepts. I am sure there are a lot of good books > in English about Heideggers critique of technology. I know that there are > very good american academic interpreters of Heidegger in several > universities in the U.S.A. As to the difference between Heidegger and > Jünger - there is a big difference, the same difference that exists between > Jünger and Carl Schmitt: Heidegger and Carl Schmitt got involved into the > politics of the national-socialist regime and tried to make a career in the > national-socialist system. Both - Heidegger and Schmitt - failed at the > attempt, but there public image was heaviliy damaged after 1945. Jünger > stayed out of all nationalsocialist organizations and saw early, what kind > of regime the Third Reich was. So his image was not too damaged after 1945 > and he managed to get a second chance after 1945. Schmitt and Heidegger > didn´t have that chance, especially Schmitt stayed an outsider in the > "Bundesrepublik" . Heidegger finally was able to work again as a professor, > but his image was seriously damaged and there were always serious doubts > about his political views. Jünger became an "anarch" in Wilflingen and lived > much longer than Schmitt and Heidegger. At the end, in the 90s, Jünger was > again a very popular man, political leaders like Felipe Gonzalez, Helmut > Kohl, Francois Mitterand visited him as one of the relics of World War I and > the "conservative revolution" of the republic of Weimar and as a reverence > to a prolific and important writer and thinker. So the difference is in the > biography. The ideas of the Jünger-brothers and Heidegger when it comes to > technology were similar, though especially Ernst Jünger wasn´t > only critical about technology - he included technology into his > science-fiction novels and late conceptions, and he wasn´t only critical > about technology, for him modern technology is also a real chance for the > world to solve important problems of mankind in general, though there are > always dangers in the use of modern technology. As I told this list several > times before, I wrote a long essay about these questions that is online in > the web: > > > > http://www.lammla. de/domains/ arnshaugk/ diktynna/ ej_technikkritik > .pdf<http://www.lammla.de/domains/arnshaugk/diktynna/ej_technikkritik.pdf> > > > > Yours, > > Klaus > > > > > --- Simon Friedrich *<simonfriedrich@ yahoo.de>* schrieb am *Mo, > 2.11.2009: > * > > * > Von: Simon Friedrich <simonfriedrich@ yahoo.de> > Betreff: [juenger_org] Heidegger, Nietzsche, Juenger, seinvergessenheit, > etc > An: juenger_org@ yahoogroups. de > Datum: Montag, 2. November 2009, 10:21 > > * > * ** * > *Thanks Klaus - indeed, as I was reading your summary F.G.J's description > of man's exploitative attitude to nature came to my mind too. Then you made > the same comment at the end. > > I haven't read a word of Heidegger in original, only syntheses of his > thought - so can anyone explain to me concisely why he thought technology > was so intrinsically anti-being? > > I fully agree with him - from my purely personal view, it has something to > do with the mechanicalness of technology vs the wholeness/unity of being. > Being is precisely not mechanical, it is an inexplicable wholeness and > oneness which cannot be described by the sum and interrelations of its parts > - whereas technology only deals with and can integrate machines, mechanisms. > A technological society thus leaves no room for human wholeness and growth. > We now have to fight for it. > > ("Human perfection and technical perfection are incompatible. If we strive > for one, we must sacrifice the other.... Technical perfection strives > towards the calculable, human perfection towards the incalculable. .... The > fear and enthusiasm we experience at the sight of perfect mechanisms are in > exact contrast to the happiness we feel at the sight of a perfect work of > art. We sense an attack on our integrity, on our wholeness".) > > Actually the conflict between being and machine is part of human nature, it > was always this way. "One of our modern magi" (as Juenger calls him in > Annäherungen) has the idea of the antithesis of being and mechanicalness at > the very basis of his system. In Gurdjieff's system, we ARE, only to the > degree that we are beyond mechanicalness. It is at all times in the nature > of Man to become progressively mechanical as he lives his life - simply put, > a rut naturally develops with repetition and the rut then promotes further > repetition. This must happen, unless a person makes conscious effort to > overcome this natural trend. But in a mechanically- oriented and structured > society, ie a technological one, this tendency is far more pronounced and > difficult to resist. Because the whole structure around one, including above > all the people, operates on a mechanical basis. > > Your summary of Heidegger's theories thus resonates with me, but it seems > to me that there is fundamental difference between a philosopher and somone > representing an ancient system of self-development. Whereas Heidegger may > have understood that self-forgetting is the problem, he does not, as far as > I know, present a solution. Gurdjieff on the other hand does - how to > "self-remember" is the most fundamental exercise in his system. And he says > that it is not a uniquely modern, technologically- based problem, though it > may be exacerbated today by technology. > > Ernst Juenger is to me a special case in that he seems to provide guidance, > not in the explicit way of a Gurdjieff but implicitly. For what I know, > Juenger didn't belong to any esoteric schools - although, by the nature of > true esotericism, this can by no means be ruled out simply because he nevers > mentions it. Perhaps the difference I sense has to do simply with a higher > level of being. > > Which aligns in turn with Juenger's level of involvement with real life, > successful involvement moreover. In comparison with Nietzche, Heidegger etc, > Juenger was able to engage with life at the same level and in a manner > entirely consistent with his intellectual creation. Heidegger, Nietzsche, > etc may have been brilliant thinkers and diagnosticians of the spirit of the > times. But in my experience none of them offered solutions to the challenges > of the states they were able to describe. Heidegger and Nietzsche (like so > many other brilliant thinkers and artists) had problems, each in their own > ways, engaging succesfully with real life. In the end, this is why I respect > EJ so much more - he is much more than a philosopher. > > Forgive all the digressions. ...! Looking forward to an explanation of > Heidegger's technology vs Being concept :-) > > Simon > http://ernst- juenger.blogspot .com <http://ernst-juenger.blogspot.com/> > * > * > * > * > * > * > ------------------------------ > Von: klaus gauger <klaus_gauger@ yahoo.com> > An: juenger_org@ yahoogroups. de > Gesendet: Freitag, den 23. Oktober 2009, 15:11:10 Uhr > Betreff: AW: AW: [juenger_org] Re-publication of The Failure of Technology > > > > * > Dear Simon, > > > the difference between Jünger and Heidegger is this: Jünger was mainly an > exact observer, not a philosopher. His observations of modern world and > especially the modern war all merge into the figure of the "worker", which > is the coming "Gestalt" of the 20th and 21th century. Heidegger was no > brilliant observer, but a philosopher. His interest in modern technology is > connected with the fundamental question of being (Seinsfrage) which he > started to develop in his fundamental book "Being and Time" (Sein und Zeit). > Heidegger asks himself, how a genuine, real "being" is possible in a modern > technological society. Modern technology himself is for Heidegger the > practical and concrete outcome of the western metaphysics that started in > ancient Greece 3000 years ago. Heidegger read Jüngers "The worker" and his > conclusion was: The present technological age with his coming "Gestalt", the > worker, is the culmination of the total "Seinsvergessenheit " (total > oblivion of being). In his lectures about Nietzsche he talks about the > "european nihilism" and "the will to power" (Wille zur Macht") that is the > driving force behing the european nihilism that uses technology as his main > instrument for his unlimited will to power (This is a precise philosophical > description of the figure of the worker of Ernst Jünger, and Heidegger > understood this figure and the book "The Worker" quite well). The "Gestell" > (which is the sum of all technological instruments and installations in our > society) makes a genuine, real "being" in our world absolutely impossible. > So modern technology makes a real, genuine being impossible. Heidegger says > that modern man has to overcome the present technological stage and has to > overcome the instrumental thinking (Horkheimer/ Adorno) which started > with the subjectivism of Descartes and modern rationalism and Heidegger says > that we have to develop a new way of thinking. He gives the following > example: There are several ways to see a river (like the Rhine in Germany, > our biggest river). If we see it in a rational way, as a mean of > transportation for boats, as a mean for irrigation for the fields, as a mean > to produce electricity (for powerplants driven by water), etc. we perceive > the Rhine only as an instrument for our technological and comercial goals. > What we need is a new way of thinking where we see nature not only as a mean > for our comercial and instrumental goals, as a big reserve that we can > exploite freely and without mercy. We need a thinking where we see > nature and the objects of nature as a value in itself, not only as a value > in relation to our comercial and instrumental interests. As you can see, > Heidegger said in more philosophical words more or less the same things as > Friedrich Georg Jünger in his "failure of technology". And Ernst Jüngers > "The worker" is the platform, the diagnosis from where the ideas of F.G. > Jünger and also Heidegger started. > > > Yours, > > Klaus > > > > > --- Simon Friedrich *<simonfriedrich@ yahoo.de>* schrieb am *Fr, > 23.10.2009: > * > > * > Von: Simon Friedrich <simonfriedrich@ yahoo.de> > Betreff: AW: AW: [juenger_org] Re-publication of The Failure of Technology > An: juenger_org@ yahoogroups. de > Datum: Freitag, 23. Oktober 2009, 11:30 > > * > * ** * > *Well done, Klaus. The more prominent is not necessarily therefore the > leader. > * > * * > *Simon** > http://ernst- juenger.blogspot .com <http://ernst-juenger.blogspot.com/> > * > * > * > * > * > * > ------------------------------ > Von: klaus gauger <klaus_gauger@ yahoo.com> > An: juenger_org@ yahoogroups. de > Gesendet: Freitag, den 23. Oktober 2009, 11:22:28 Uhr > Betreff: AW: [juenger_org] Re-publication of The Failure of Technology > > > > * > Dear Greg, > > > it´s just the opposite way how it happened: Heidegger was influenced deeply > by Ernst Jünger and maybe also by his brother Friedrich Georg. Heidegger > read "The worker" in the thirties and was impressed by this book. The > anotations and comments Heidegger made to "the worker" are published now > (http://www.perlenta > ucher.de/ buch/20065. html <http://www.perlentaucher.de/buch/20065.html>). I > wrote myself a longer essay about Jünger and the question of technology that > is online in the WWW: > > > http://www.lammla. de/domains/ arnshaugk/ diktynna/ ej_technikkritik > .pdf<http://www.lammla.de/domains/arnshaugk/diktynna/ej_technikkritik.pdf> > > > Yours, > > Klaus > > > --- Gregory Whitfield *<gregd...@yahoo. com>* schrieb am *Fr, 23.10.2009: > * > > * > Von: Gregory Whitfield <gregd...@yahoo. com> > Betreff: [juenger_org] Re-publication of The Failure of Technology > An: juenger_org@ yahoogroups. de > Datum: Freitag, 23. Oktober 2009, 8:14 > > * > * ** * > Relative newcomer to Juenger that I am , I wonder to what degree > Juenger was influenced -- if at all -- by Jaspers, Spengler and Heidegger > regarding his antipathy towards modernity and technology ? > > Taking the point further ( the banality and dangers of technology as mass > 'culture' ) I find Horkheimer and Adorno's "Dialectic of Enlightenment / > Enlightenment as Mass Deception" to be very relevant, though I markedly > qualify that by saying I am no great fan at all of the Frankfurt School and > their aims and affiliations. > > http://www.marxists .org/reference/ archive/adorno/ 1944/culture- industry. > htm<http://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/adorno/1944/culture-industry.htm> > > Greg. > > --- On *Thu, 22/10/09, Richard Krähenbühl <ri...@t-online. de>* wrote: > > > From: Richard Krähenbühl <ri...@t-online. de> > Subject: Re: [juenger_org] Re-publication of The Failure of Technology > To: juenger_org@yahoogroups.de > Date: Thursday, 22 October, 2009, 11:34 PM > > > Dear Simon, > who knows, perhaps the growing perplexity of mankind in today's world may > on the other hand favor and promote some deeper analysis, some analysis > hitherto overlooked. People assailed by the all the evident secondary > effects of today's technology may be happy to find out about Friedrich Georg > Jünger having written his prophetic book long ago. Published at a time when > people still had high hopes in the liberating promises of technology. As > once stated here, i would not have known EJ and his brother FGJ, if it were > not from reading the works by a notable German astrologer, Wolfgang > Doebereiner, who quite often quoted EJ and FGJ in his books. Doebereiner > somewhere even goes so far as to modify the popular Goebbels slogan to the > masses: "Wollt ihr den totalen Krieg", which resounded with an overwhelming > "Jaaaah" from the hypnotized public; modifying it with a more contemporary > sounding "Wollt ihr die totale Technik?" > Ample reasons to be pessimistic, it seems. > > For me, Georg Friedrich's book "Perfektion der Technik" has got something > of an unsparing diagnosis. As you say, gründlich, and with a depth of vision > lacking in so many contemporary commentators, and, of course, endowed with > the WOW-effect, as i would call it, of someone having been capable to > foresee all these present troubles, be it environmental, exploitative. ..you > name it. My optimism derives from the fact that an unsparing diagnosis may > have a better chance of healing the disease. My optimism derives from the > fact that people often are not as stupid as they are believed to be. Your > blog and the list here are just one instance among many others to prove it. > And of course, there have been all those develompments to the year 2009, for > the better or for the worse. > It may sound strange, but reading the Juenger brothers always instills some > hope in me. For instance EJ often brings in the grand serpent. He sees the > serpent shedding it's skin whenever cataclysms happen, the catastrophes you > are talking about. What is he talking about? > > "...An ancient Force ascending serpentine > The unhasting spirals of the aeonic road. > > That's Sri Aurobindo speaking; in a sonnet called "Evolution". > Evolution as a serpentine force unfolding. > Man has been called the "crown of evolution": Sri Aurobindo challenges > this statement. From a Christian point of view, the theologician Pierre > Teilhard de Chardin has written about this evolutionary topic as well. Has > evolution ended with the appearance of man? Or is it continuing? Will there > be something beyond? That's the question arising in me, when EJ talks about > the skin-shedding serpent. > > Hey, that was great,Simon, what you wrote about the elements, the fire and > it all. > > Yours > Richard > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Simon > Friedrich<http://uk.mc505.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=simonfriedr...@yahoo.de> > *To: juenger_org@yahoogroups.de ose?to=juenger_...@yahoogroups.de> > *Sent:* Thursday, October 22, 2009 9:19 AM > *Subject:* AW: [juenger_org] Re-publication of The Failure of Technology > > > Yes, Richard, it made my day too when they replied this way. I wasn't > expecting it. I wonder what sort of distribution and marketing it will get > though.... I don't know Alethes or the International Institute of Arts and > Letters (though name of the latter is impressive enough), I wonder how much > publicity this reprint will get. We'll have to help them with own little > efforts! > > This book explains so much about technology and so "grundlich" - far more > than the cleverest contemporary commentators, who mess around on the surface > and have lost sight of the fire in all the smoke of details and "solutions". > > Unfortunately I also find reading this book very depressing - it only > confirms that our developments can only end in catastrophe. The only > question is the degree of that catastrophe and if humanity will learn > anything by it. As EJ says, the Titans are only stopped by catastrophe. This > will inevitably happen, and thank the gods that it will, for humanity's sake > and the earth's. But the question remains if humanity will learn anything > from it all. I am pessimistic - two world wars only promoted the perfection > and faith in technology. > > Dare I be quite frank? I can only assume that the coming catastrophes will > dwarf even the world wars. The elemental powers that FGJ talks about are > only more enslaved and pent-up now than back then. When they find their > freedom from man's chains, may the gods help us. Of the 4 elements it is > Fire that is particularly worrisome. Water and Earth have been exploited and > exhausted, but Fire has only been multiplied and distributed to every small > corner of the world. It is momentarily contained - in refineries, nuclear > and other power plants, factories, combustion engines, heating furnaces, the > whole electrical grid. But fuel is everywhere, and increased in its > volatility by the retreat of water and earth. If, WHEN, this fire gets > loose, the "firestorms" of Ernst Juenger's Eumeswil may be the result. Even > the summer fires in Greece, California, Spain etc are not unrelated - bad > omens. > > I told my father recently that if I were to write a book about the last few > centuries of civilization it would be called "The failure of humanity". > Imagine: we come all this way over so many generations, with so much hope > and so much sacrifice to realize a future utopia, only to arrive and > discover that we have actually destroyed humanity, merely prepared the > ground for someone else, be it the insect or the robot - or most likely, the > robot-man of a Brave New World. Talk about a grand disappointment! > > All the more reason to become an anarch and find your own meaning in life > beyond society's successes or failures. > > Forgive my pessimistic tone - but "succeed in playing life as a game and > you will find honey in nettles and hemlock" (badly paraphrased from > Eumeswil). > > Simon > http://ernst- juenger.blogspot .com <http://ernst-juenger.blogspot.com/> > > > ------------------------------ > *Von:* Richard Krähenbühl <ri...@t-online. de> > *An:* juenger_org@ yahoogroups. de > *Gesendet:* Mittwoch, den 21. Oktober 2009, 22:09:52 Uhr > *Betreff:* Re: [juenger_org] Re-publication of The Failure of Technology > > > > You made my day, dear Simon. That's great news! > FGJ was so ahead of his time. > He seems to be catching up. I always found it such a pity that his works > should have fallen into oblivion. > > Thanks once more. > Rich > > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Simon > Friedrich<http://uk.mc505.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=simonfriedr...@yahoo.de> > *To: juenger_org@yahoogroups.de ose?to=juenger_...@yahoogroups.de> > *Cc:* Tobias > Wimbauer<http://uk.mc505.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=wimba...@web.de> > *Sent:* Wednesday, October 21, 2009 8:19 AM > *Subject:* [juenger_org] Re-publication of The Failure of Technology > > > Dear List, > > I eventually got around to writing to the rights holders of F.G Jünger´s > "Die Perfektion der Technik" (The Failure of Technology) to persuade them to > reprint this magically insightful book in English. > > They replied that Alethes Press, the publishing arm of the International > Institute of Arts and Letters, will shortly be publishing it! > > Excellent news - I am re-reading it now and am again and again impressed by > F.G.J´s deep insights into the true foundations and consequences of > technology. Insights which I believe also prove that myth speaks about > deeper realities than reason can reach - he certainly came to much of his > understanding through his deep knowledge of Greek mythology, in particular > of the nature of the Titans. > > This book matches anything EJ wrote - and I say that as a very devoted fan > of EJ´s. > > Simon > http://ernst- juenger.blogspot .com <http://ernst-juenger.blogspot.com/> > > > > ------------------------------ > I am using the Free version of SPAMfighter<http://www.spamfighter.com/len> > . > We are a community of 6 million users fighting spam. > SPAMfighter has removed 662 of my spam emails to date. > The Professional version does not have this message. > > > > > ------------------------------ > I am using the Free version of SPAMfighter<http://www.spamfighter.com/len> > . > We are a community of 6 million users fighting spam. > SPAMfighter has removed 662 of my spam emails to date. > The Professional version does not have this message. > > *** > > > * > * > * > > *** > > > * > * > * > > *** > > > * > * > * > > ** > > > > >
