Hi Christian, Tks for you complete answer. I don't have access to weblate's statistics either (why), so it's difficult to get a clear picture of what a suggester is doing. L10n project doesn't provide statistics as QA project does(may be in the NL-List as mentionned ? ) I've tried to review a few recent French suggesters profil , 99% are inactive, unknown and most of them haven't translated more than a hundred strings. I think translation should be an ecosystem of knowledge, i doubt that "someone shows up to carry the torch" suddenly spontaneously with the right level of experience that 20 years experienced translators judged to have I think that suggester statut is not something attractive and the message "Insufficient privileges for saving translations" is a turnoff for newcomers.
Best. Régis Perdreau Le ven. 5 avr. 2024 à 15:30, Christian Lohmaier <lohma...@googlemail.com> a écrit : > Hi Regis, *, > > On Fri, Apr 5, 2024 at 9:03 AM Regis Perdreau <regis.perdr...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > The problem arises in all languages, and in many languages, sugesters > > remain sugesters forever. > > Each language team is free to handle it how they feel fit. Some allow > anonymous suggestions, some require users to be registered, some have > everyone being able to translate directly, others prefer to use > suggestions/to review submissions before integrating. > > > How many sugesters become translators each year? > > There are absolutely no official criteria for becoming a translator; you > > are subject to the judgement of the "official" translators... > > Yes, that's basically it. The ones dealing with the translation for > many years already decide on how translation should happen, they are > the ones who can judge best. It is unfortunate, but not everyone who > shows up to contribute does so in good faith (thankfully rare to have > trolls, but apparently not unheard of), but some might show up with > good intentions, but are just not familiar with LibreOffice/the terms > used and introduce lots of inconsistency and thus confusion. That of > course is partly to blame on the language not working to create a > glossary of the common terms, but that's mostly due to the history of > the project/that there was no way to create a glossary in the old > translation system.../not everything can be covered by a glossary. > Starts with the level of politeness the user should be addressed and > goes to specific terms for stuff like cursor vs caret, etc. > > > Should we > > wait for translators to retire and sugesters to become rare? > > No - of course when the previous translators are not responsive and > someone shows up to carry the torch, there's no problem in granting > the necessary privileges, but as long as there's an active > translator/an active translation team there's no need to change the > policy/having admins bypass their wishes and willy-nilly grant > privileges - that will only result in them leaving. (and I personally > would rather keep those who are already known to stick with the > project than risking putting the translation onto a newbie that might > lose interest in the next month already - pissing off the ones with > experience just to not come across as "difficult" is a bad choice from > my POV). > > I think it isn't really a big problem that not everyone can make > direct translations, after all even people with translation privileges > still sometimes chose to submit something as a suggestion - of course > hard to know the details since naturally most of those discussions > likely happen in the corresponding NL-lists/communication channels and > do not end up on this list. > > > I think weblate was a very bad choice. > > Weblate has nothing to do with it, that policy would be the same in any > tool. > You might have other reasons why you think weblate is a bad choice, > but how the LibreOffice project decides to manage permissions > certainly is not a problem with weblate. You could give anyone > translate permissions in weblate as well, it is just something we > think would be a bad idea, again proven by the hesitation by the > Korean team who had trolls in other projects already. > It is the same with source-code contributions - we don't give anyone > direct-commit privileges from the get-go. We accept patches in gerrit > from anyone, but only after the user did show that the quality of the > contributions is good and not just a one-off, then ESC can suggest > granting the privileges. > > Also suggestions and accepting them isn't the only way the project > can handle it, the alternative would be translation with review or > setting up suggestions with voting - but that is more or less the > same/would make more sense in larger translation teams. > > > TDF never speaks about sugesters in > > translation report > > (see > > > https://blog.documentfoundation.org/blog/2023/06/09/libreoffice-native-language-projects-tdfs-annual-report-2022/ > > ) > > That's also not a fair representation, since that also doesn't > explicitly mention translators/doesn't make any distinction between > users with direct submission privileges and those who are "only" > suggesting. The document speaks about the language community, and that > includes both translators and suggestors. > Same with our dashboard, that also includes suggestions in the default > view/stats > > > There was a survey, what are the conclusions and which step next ? > > The results of the survey were published here: > > https://blog.documentfoundation.org/blog/2024/03/29/results-from-our-survey-of-libreoffice-localisation-tooling-and-workflows/ > > And next steps are to add machine translation.... But participation > was quite low and not everyone feels the same about any issue, so > naturally people rely on feedback. > > Also I strongly disagree that users with suggestions wouldn't get > credit for that. Weblate shows suggestions in the user profile and our > dashboard reflects that as well. > > If you have examples where suggestions are ignored in terms of giving > people credit, then please point those out, those omissions are > certainly not intentional. > > Also if there are problems in suggestions not being acted upon, either > being rejected or accepted or commented-on, then raise the issue and > I'm sure there will be a solution. > > ciao > Christian > -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
