Hi,
On 11/19/2015 04:04 PM, Lars-Daniel Weber wrote:
> The guidelines say that you need even to release the steps to create
> a derived database (or share the diff or share the database itself).
Yes, but the Trivial Transformations guideline[1] explains:
"We therefore define a term "trivial transformation", ... which covers
alterations of OpenStreetMap data which are not considered interesting
or useful enough to warrant the conditions of a derivative database."
If the database used by the web site in question was a derivative
database, then your above statement (release data or steps) would be
true; but if it is the result of a trivial transformation, then it is
not even a derivative database - it is the *same* database that you find
in the planet file.
You have to understand that "database" here is not meant to be "the bits
and bytes I have in my PostGIS instance" but the more abstract
"collection of data from OSM that describes the physical world". If you
transform that from EPSG:4326 to EPSG:3857 then it is still the same
database, and not a different database.
The Trivial Transformations page has a discussion item about rendering
databases that says: "A rendering database should be considered a
trivial transformation provided that it is purely created from an
algorithmic recasting of the original data with the intent to make
rendering [...] easier and faster, since no information has been added."
This also reflects my opinion, and hence I believe the maker of the
OePNV-Karte cannot be forced to reveal anything. Although I should think
that he would, if asked politely.
> So it's not done by saying: "download the raw data".
> That's against the license.
Your opinion, not that of the Trivial Transformations guideline, because
if the preprocessing is a trivial transformation, then the "raw data" is
the *same* database as the preprocessed rendering database, and no
"derived database" exists which would have to be shared.
>> You said that you have made several requests to the site operator to
>> hand over the data. Has *any* of them been a polite request where you
>> did not express your assumed entitlement to receive it ("Dear XXX could
>> I perhaps have a copy of the data"), or have they been like ("Hello XXX
>> your data is ODbL hence you must give it to me") from the start?
>
> I've read some discussions about this on IRC. My request was about a
> small "how to get the result" as described before.
Was your request a polite "could you share this" request or did you
choose a "you have to share this so give it to me" wording?
Bye
Frederik
[1]
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Open_Data_License/Trivial_Transformations_-_Guideline
--
Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09" E008°23'33"
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