----- Forwarded message from Robert Naiman <nai...@justforeignpolicy.org> -----
Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2013 14:23:36 -0500 From: Robert Naiman <nai...@justforeignpolicy.org> To: malachy kilbride <malachykilbr...@yahoo.com> Cc: No Drones List Serv <nodro...@lists.riseup.net>, David Soumis <david...@charter.net> Subject: Re: [drone-list] [nodrones] what can I do ? Reply-To: Robert Naiman <nai...@justforeignpolicy.org>, drone-list <drone-l...@lists.stanford.edu> I don't deny at all the difference you point out between issues where the primary impact is on Americans vs. the primary impact is on foreigners, not at all. That is a huge and crucial - and I think, permanent - fact of the terrain. My point was not that it's easy, all we have to do is emulate NSA. My point was that NSA shows it's possible through engagement to make the system move. It's certainly worth noting that far and away the most friction has been generated so far around the issue of drone strikes on Americans. That was the marquee issue of the Rand Paul filibuster, That has been the marquee issue of the ACLU strategy. Arguably, the events of the last two years have significantly vindicated this strategy - that's what has worked the best to throw mud on the policy in mainstream debate. And there is a big spillover effect on making the whole policy controversial. I think we should try to learn from the Congressional strategy and tactics of people who are doing better than we are, even if our issues have different dynamics. I think most people who care about NSA spying and are politically engaged would say that the Amash-Conyers amendment was a spectacular success - going from apparently almost no controversy to almost passing on the floor of the House in the space of about a month or so. So, it's worth noting: what did the Amash-Conyers amendment try to do? Did it try to repeal the Patriot Act? Did it try to shut down the NSA? No. It tried to defund *one controversial thing* that the NSA is doing. So, here is a question to which I do not know the answer. But I think it's a good question that we should be trying to figure out. What is the analogue of the Amash-Conyers NSA amendment on drone strikes? What's the thing that could get us on to the playing field of mainstream debate? On Fri, Aug 2, 2013 at 9:03 PM, malachy kilbride <malachykilbr...@yahoo.com>wrote: > One thing I wonder about is how we get congress to respond to those of us > against killer drones? How do we get a critical mass of people against the > killer drones? Killer drones versus the NSA issue isn't a good comparison. > Comparing and contrasting the Bradley Manning v. Edward Snowden is a better > way to look at it. Polling shows the surveillance and spying revealed by > Snowden resonates more with Americans versus the whistle-blowing of Bradley > Manning. Americans are not behind Manning the way they are sympathetic to > Snowden. Americans seem to be responding more to the spying drones (on > them!) as opposed to the killer drones used against those who have darker > skin and live in Muslim countries. We are dealing with issues like race > and anti-Muslim sentiment and what happens to Americans as opposed to what > happens to non-Americans. This is in part what led us into war and > occupation in Afghanistan and Iraq and allows the killer drone strikes to > take place in Yemen, Pakistan, Sudan, Afghanistan, and Iraq. > > I agree that congress will respond to our concerns about the killer drones > but only if our numbers are greater than now. So, how do we get these > numbers to join us when we are dealing with prejudice and indifference? How > do we create a narrative that appeals to apparently what Americans do > respond to, their self interest? They don't want the spying > on Americans but they do want the drones on the borders seeking out > Mexicans and then they don't seem to be too upset by the killer drone > strikes in various countries used against Muslims. So what is the argument > we use to get more people to join us in pressuring congress? > > *From:* Robert Naiman <nai...@justforeignpolicy.org> > > *To:* David Soumis <david...@charter.net> > *Cc:* No Drones List Serv <nodro...@lists.riseup.net> > *Sent:* Friday, August 2, 2013 6:43 PM > > *Subject:* Re: [nodrones] what can I do ? > > Getting more people to contact their legislators would be really helpful. > > Look what happened with the NSA issue. A couple of months ago, the > political terrain was not so different from the drone issue. > > A month after the Snowden revelations, the status quo NSA policy was > almost defeated on the floor of the House. > > What happened in between the Snowden revelations and the House vote? > > People contacted their legislators. > > > > On Fri, Aug 2, 2013 at 4:55 PM, David Soumis <david...@charter.net> wrote: > > I'm hearing this more and more from people. > What can we do to help? > > The obvious is to join us to hold signs, to attend vigils, and so forth, > but I think it has to go well beyond that. > > Contacting legislators to demand they put a stop to the use of drones > would be good. > A petition to hand to them would be good as well, especially if we could > get thousands of signatures. > Having a decent set of information to hand to potential allies that could > be used to educate their friends and relatives. > > WHAT ELSE ? > > David Soumis > > To unsubscribe from this list, just go to > https://lists.riseup.net/www/sigrequest/nodrones - if you are having > trouble, please just email nodronesi...@gmail.com > > > > > -- > Robert Naiman > Policy Director > Just Foreign Policy > http://www.justforeignpolicy.org/ > nai...@justforeignpolicy.org > > To unsubscribe from this list, just go to > https://lists.riseup.net/www/sigrequest/nodrones- if you are having > trouble, please just email nodronesi...@gmail.com > > > To unsubscribe from this list, just go to > https://lists.riseup.net/www/sigrequest/nodrones - if you are having > trouble, please just email nodronesi...@gmail.com > -- Robert Naiman Policy Director Just Foreign Policy www.justforeignpolicy.org nai...@justforeignpolicy.org To unsubscribe from this list, just go to https://lists.riseup.net/www/sigrequest/nodrones - if you are having trouble, please just email nodronesi...@gmail.com -- Want to unsubscribe? Want to receive a weekly digest instead of daily emails? Change your preferences: https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/drone-list or email compa...@stanford.edu ----- End forwarded message ----- -- Eugen* Leitl <a href="http://leitl.org";>leitl</a> http://leitl.org ______________________________________________________________ ICBM: 48.07100, 11.36820 http://ativel.com http://postbiota.org AC894EC5: 38A5 5F46 A4FF 59B8 336B 47EE F46E 3489 AC89 4EC5 -- Liberationtech list is public and archives are searchable on Google. Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu or changing your settings at https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech
