I think that Jonathan was impolite in expressing his frustration at being misunderstood. But are his points not valuable?
------------------------------------- David Pollak<feeder.of.the.be...@gmail.com> wrote: Jonathan, your comments are someplace between not helpful and troll-like. It'd be best if you did not continue to participate in this thread. On Sun, Mar 7, 2010 at 5:36 AM, jonathan mawson <umpti...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > If there's no rational reason to use Lift, then perhaps you could find > another community to spend your time in. > > > I didn't say that there was no rational reason to use Lift BUT THAT YOU ARE > FAILING TO COMMUNICATE WHAT THAT REASON MIGHT BE TO POTENTIAL USERS! You > can't expect potential users to be Internet mind readers. Which is what > your > current strategy amounts to - other than "People will try Lift because > there > is a buzz about Scala." > > > > > Lift is not a clone of any framework. It's different and there are > > reasons for those differences. If you don't like them, please use what > > you like best. Use what feels most comfortable for you. Use what works > > best for you. > > > > I very carefully did NOT say that Lift should be a clone. I did say that, > when you ask users to do things contrary to their expectations of a modern > web framework, you tell them WHY you are asking them to do that and what > the > payoff will be for them. I'd talk them through these "surprises" with a > series of short snippets in boxes - I'd also use these snippets for any > "gotchas" like those critical spaces after the "/". I might start with: > > Working through this tutorial you'll encounter a horrible surprise - Lift > is > not YARC! (Yet Another Rails Clone.) That is because we have designed Lift > to be a fundamentally different creature to Rails. Rails is an excellent > framework whose first priority is ease of use for simple jobs where server > efficiency can be traded away to get a site running quickly with minimum > effort. Lift is a framework designed for jobs where Rails has run out. A > well designed Lift site can handle up to 20 times the traffic of an > equivalent Rails site on the same server. And while it perhaps isn't as > easy > to do simple things in Lift as in Rails, it is much easier to do most of > the > hard ones. In a way, both frameworks carry their philosophy in their names > - > > - Rails expects you, the programmer, to be happy to run on a relatively > pre-determined track in return for a simpler life. > > - Lift, like its host language Scala, is designed for HEAVY LIFTING. Its > priorities are delivering security, maintainability and performance over > the > widest possible range of applications. It makes obtaining these good things > as simple as possible, but occasionally you just have to eat your greens if > you want to grow up big and strong. > > Those are the rationales behind the design choices we made. Creating your > first toy site with Lift will take longer than with Rails, but creating > your > first secure, scalable site will take less time. Whenever Lift wants you to > do something particularly surprising in this tutorial you'll see another > box > explaining why and what the pay-off will be for you. You'll also see boxes > warning you of any fiddly 'gotchas'. Happy Lifting! > > Lightly adapted that might work as an intro for Lift in general. It > *differentiates* you from Rails and gives potential users the info they > need > to decide whether or nor Lift is right for them to try, which is what > technical marketing should be about. (It also obeys the "tell them three > times" rule of Writing Stuff You Really Want People To Remember.") > > Oh - and I have now seen the Lift logo, and I think it looks fine! > > -- > View this message in context: > http://old.nabble.com/superficial-first-impressions-from-a-rails-junkie-tp27802055p27811402.html > Sent from the liftweb mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Lift" group. > To post to this group, send email to lift...@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > liftweb+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com<liftweb%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com> > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/liftweb?hl=en. > > -- Lift, the simply functional web framework http://liftweb.net Beginning Scala http://www.apress.com/book/view/1430219890 Follow me: http://twitter.com/dpp Surf the harmonics -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lift" group. 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