Linux-Advocacy Digest #192, Volume #26 Thu, 20 Apr 00 06:14:04 EDT
Contents:
Re: Backdoors in Windows 2000 or server software? (Rob S. Wolfram)
Re: What else is hidden in MS code??? (Rob S. Wolfram)
Re: Elian (Donovan Rebbechi)
Re: Guess How Many Windows Crashes.... (abraxas)
Re: Elian (abraxas)
Re: What else is hidden in MS code??? ("Erik Funkenbusch")
Re: What else is hidden in MS code??? ("Erik Funkenbusch")
Re: Become a Windows Registry Expert! (Karel Jansens)
Re: Become a Windows Registry Expert! (Steve Ballantyne)
Re: Guess How Many Windows Crashes.... (Gary Hallock)
Re: Become a Windows Registry Expert! (Steve Ballantyne)
Re: Become a Windows Registry Expert! (Steve Ballantyne)
Re: Become a Windows Registry Expert! ("Colin R. Day")
Re: Mandrake is listening! It's "Da Bomb"! ("Colin R. Day")
Re: Become a Windows Registry Expert! (Jim Richardson)
Re: Become a Windows Registry Expert! (Marty)
Re: Become a Windows Registry Expert! (Monkeyboy)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Rob S. Wolfram)
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Backdoors in Windows 2000 or server software?
Date: 19 Apr 2000 20:42:07 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Christopher Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>"Rob S. Wolfram" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> I beg to disagree. The people reviewing the source code make up quite a
>> few and are not bound by any company policy. There's nobody holding you
>> back to take part in it.
>
>My lack of time and expertise in the relevant area, however, does. I
>sincerely doubt I am alone in that.
No, you're not alone. Personally I think that more than half the Linux
users never look at the source code (see below).
>> My common sense tells me it is impossible for all the thousands of
>> independent reviewers worldwide to conspire together just to slip a
>> backdoor in.
>
>Thousands ? I'd be surprised if the number of competent and knowledgable
>people "reviewing" the major open source applications numbered very far into
>the hundreds.
Man, you're living in a dream world. Let's do some calculations, shall
we? Let's estimate the number of current Linux users worldwide at around
10 million (which is a pessimistic estimate). Let's estimate the number
of "competent knowledgeable reviewing" users at 0.1% (which is a *very*
pessimistic estimate), you would still have 10000 reviewers. If I look
at all the people I know who use Linux, I think more than 3 out of 4 at
least occasionally look at the source code. But maybe I know the wrong
people. Maybe it is only one out of 10 Linux users that at least
occasionally looks at the source, than that would constitute at least 1
million people worlwide who do so.
Another example. The CREDITS file in the Linux source tree (v 2.2.13)
has 283 distinctive names. These are 283 active kernel hackers. Just
issuing an occasional patch does not get you into the CREDITS file yet.
Still these are just *Linux kernel* hackers, we still don't talk about
all other open source software that constitutes the more than 4000
packages in the main section of Debian potato. How about all GNU utils,
X, KDE, Gnome, Samba, Apache, all BSD utils, TeX, Perl, and the list
goes on and on. The number of Debian developers alone (these aren't
just reviewers, they are also responsible for correctly integrating
"their" packages into the Debian distribution) exceeds 400.
Come back when you wake up from your dream.
Cheers,
Rob
--
Rob S. Wolfram <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> PGP 0x07606049 GPG 0xD61A655D
Q: Where did the names "C" and "C++" come from?
A: They were grades
-- Jerry Leichter
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Rob S. Wolfram)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: What else is hidden in MS code???
Date: 19 Apr 2000 20:44:31 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Adam Warner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Point taken: "Open source doesn't just mean access to the source code."
>I've just realised that I haven't been paying attention to the "open" in
>"open source".
>
>Thanks for clarifying that,
>Adam.
>
>PS: Sorry for misrepresenting your bet. I wouldn't want you destitute ;-)
Thanx for this posting. It's been much appreciated ;-)
Cheers,
Rob
--
Rob S. Wolfram <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> PGP 0x07606049 GPG 0xD61A655D
NT and security should not be mentioned in the same
sentence without negation.
-- Joe Zeff in a.s.r.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Donovan Rebbechi)
Crossposted-To:
alt.activism,alt.politics.communism,rec.games.video.misc,alt.destroy.microsoft,alt.alien.vampire.flonk.flonk.flonk,alt.fan.karl-malden.nose
Subject: Re: Elian
Date: 19 Apr 2000 17:12:00 -0400
On Wed, 19 Apr 2000 14:32:46 -0400, DGITC wrote:
>That's not much of a problem, since the majority of Linux users are
>already Communist.
Bullshit. Go back under your bridge, troll.
--
Donovan
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (abraxas)
Subject: Re: Guess How Many Windows Crashes....
Date: 19 Apr 2000 21:27:30 GMT
Dan J. Smeski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Your hardware is shit, that's why it crashed. I bet Linux would crash the
> same way.
You're an MCSE, arent you.
=====yttrx
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (abraxas)
Crossposted-To:
alt.activism,alt.politics.communism,rec.games.video.misc,alt.destroy.microsoft,alt.alien.vampire.flonk.flonk.flonk,alt.fan.karl-malden.nose
Subject: Re: Elian
Date: 19 Apr 2000 21:28:39 GMT
In comp.os.linux.advocacy DGITC <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> That's not much of a problem, since the majority of Linux users are
> already Communist.
I'd actually more place myself in the 'satanic anarchist' definition...
But thanks for trying.
=====yttrx
------------------------------
From: "Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: What else is hidden in MS code???
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 17:05:35 -0500
Rob S. Wolfram <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Erik Funkenbusch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >Rob S. Wolfram <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> >news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >> >Then how come nobody DOES guarantee it? Are you willing to put up
say,
> >your
> >> >yearly salary that no backdoors have ever or will never be in any
Linux
> >> >distribution?
> >>
> >> OK, I'll bite. Let me give you a couple of streets headstart. I am
> >> willing to put up my yearly salary that not a single program of the
main
> >> stable Debian distribution (v 2.1 aka "slink") contains an exploitable
> >> backdoor (backdoor meaning an *intensional* security breach to gain
> >> unlawful access to remote data), if and only if you are willing to put
> >> up your yearly salary that there is no exploitable backdoor (see
meaning
> >> above) in only IIS and Exchange Server (current NT4/W2K versions,
> >> standard installs).
> >
> >Why would I do that? I didn't claim that it's impossible for NT to have
any
> >backdoors. You, however, did claim that all linux distributions are
> >guaranteed to not have any.
>
> DO NOT put words in my mouth, chicken. Reread my statements above. I'm
> talking of commonly used *open source* applications! Open source is
> defined in the open source definition (http://www.opensource.org/osd.html)
> and are part of the core debian distribution. That's why I limited my
> scope to Debian. I can't possible make such a statement about a
> commercial application that happens to be part of Redhat. READ WHAT I
> WROTE! It's still quoted.
No, what you originally wrote is not still quoted. Here it is:
>> There's enough independent peer review of the Linux source code by many
>> independent individuals to *GUARANTEE* that there is no backdoor in
>> Linux and all it's commonly used open source applications.
That says quite clearly that you seem to think that all Linux distributions
(not just Debian) minus any non-open sourced apps are guaranteed to be back
door free. I'm not putting words in your mouth, you spoke them.
Either retract your statement that Linux and all it's open sourced
applications are guaranteed to be back door free, or remove your
restrictions on Debian.
> >In fact, such a backdoor did exist in red hat not too long ago (within
the
> >last 18 months). A binary distribution of Red Hat on a mirror site had
been
> >compromised and had a back doored file installed into it.
>
> If you're talking about the DANSIE Shopping Cart, read my followup to
> Adam's posting. If you're talking about the trojaned tcp wrappers, they
> never made it to any distribution. Anyone else?
They made it to a version of Red Hat that was distributed on a mirror site.
For several hours people were downloading the back doored code.
> >You cannot choose any specific version of Linux. Your statements claimed
> >that it was impossible for a back door to exist in any linux
distribution.
>
> I never said that. I talked about *COMMONLY USED OPEN SOURCE SOFTWARE*.
No, you said *ALL* open source software And Linux.
> >The point is that if this peer review process is so good, such buffer
> >overruns would never make it into a distribution. They would be caught.
If
> >a programmer forgot to check something, someone else would have found it.
>
> I have extensively answered this, and I will not rehash it. Learn to
> read. You will never catch me saying that open source software review
> eliminates all bugs. That would be moronic, newarly as moronic as the
> way you try to twist my words.
If it cannot eliminate all bugs, how can it possibly eliminate all back
doors that could possibly exist?
> BTW, I take it that your chickening out of the challenge means that you
> agree on the superiority of open source software where it considers
> backdoors?
No, I'm calling you on your statements. And I never made any claims about
Windows, you however made claims about Linux and *ALL* of it's open source
software.
------------------------------
From: "Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: What else is hidden in MS code???
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 17:10:36 -0500
Erik Funkenbusch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:T_pL4.134$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > DO NOT put words in my mouth, chicken. Reread my statements above. I'm
> > talking of commonly used *open source* applications! Open source is
> > defined in the open source definition
(http://www.opensource.org/osd.html)
> > and are part of the core debian distribution. That's why I limited my
> > scope to Debian. I can't possible make such a statement about a
> > commercial application that happens to be part of Redhat. READ WHAT I
> > WROTE! It's still quoted.
>
> No, what you originally wrote is not still quoted. Here it is:
>
> >> There's enough independent peer review of the Linux source code by many
> >> independent individuals to *GUARANTEE* that there is no backdoor in
> >> Linux and all it's commonly used open source applications.
>
> That says quite clearly that you seem to think that all Linux
distributions
> (not just Debian) minus any non-open sourced apps are guaranteed to be
back
> door free. I'm not putting words in your mouth, you spoke them.
Doh! Alright, I admit I'm wrong here. I don't know why, but every time I
read this I somehow missed the word "commonly" even after quoting it again.
In any case, my point still stands. I never made any comments about Windows
and backdoors, thus there is no reason for me to put up any money
guaranteeing they don't exist. You, Rob, stated that it's guaranteed. This
is not a bet, but you living up to your words.
------------------------------
From: jansens_at_ibm_dot_net (Karel Jansens)
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Become a Windows Registry Expert!
Date: 19 Apr 2000 23:23:02 GMT
George Graves <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I run FrameMaker - No Linux, or Be equivalent
FrameMaker for Linux (albeit a late beta at this moment) is available
for download.
Karel Jansens
jansens_at_attglobal_dot_net
========================================================
CIA-bait:
Saddam Hussein Iraq Iran hijack assasinate CIA plutonium
President of the United States thermonuclear device
Windows weapons FBI biohazard Microsoft uranium
submarine kill timer explosives
Have a nice day, guys!
========================================================
------------------------------
From: Steve Ballantyne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Become a Windows Registry Expert!
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 10:49:29 +1200
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Robert
Fovell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
<snip>
> Agreed. For a long while I had a multibutton mouse on my desktop Mac,
> intending to use those "hidden" right-click menus embedded in many apps
> (such as Illustrator, Netscape, now MT-NewsWatcher, etc.). I found it,
> at best, a very minor convenience, and mainly used the mouse's other
> buttons only when I was booted into Linux. I bought a multibutton mouse
> for my iMac as well, but abandoned it after a few months (except in
> Linux). I'm one of the ostensible few who actually like the new round
> mouse. It is very comfortable.
>
<snip>
I have a Microsoft USB glow in the dark Intellimouse -- which I
generally like. mostly for its precision and lack of skipping etc. The
wheel for scrolling is nice, too.
On the other hand, I have accidentally pressed the right mouse button at
inopportune moments. Not often enough to make me want to go back to a
single-button mouse, but enough to make me think that is indeed true
that you can't press the wrong button if there's only one button, and
that multiple button mice have disadvantages as well as advantages.
(Incidentally, I have a Japanese Atmark Pippin controller plugged in to
my old ADB socket -- makes a handy thumb-size trackball controller for
times when I restart without the ADB drivers turned on.)
Regards,
--
Steve Ballantyne
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 19:10:01 -0400
From: Gary Hallock <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Guess How Many Windows Crashes....
"Dan J. Smeski" wrote:
> Your hardware is shit, that's why it crashed. I bet Linux would crash the
> same way.
> CG <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > We installed a new network printer yesterday. Guess how many times my
> > "user friendly" windows 98 machine crashed in the process of
> > installing the new printer driver.
Let's see. You have no idea what printer or drivers were installed. You
have absolutely no information on which to base your conclusion. Do you
have ESP? Or do you simply assume that every problem is due to crappy
hardware?
Gary
------------------------------
From: Steve Ballantyne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Become a Windows Registry Expert!
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 10:52:30 +1200
In article <pNYK4.2442$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Shock
Boy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> "Tim Mayer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:p4sK4.43267$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >
> > "Steve Ballantyne" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in
> > message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > In article <BGoK4.2400$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Shock
> > > Boy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >
> > > <snip>
> > >
> > > > Ah, so Apple is the reason that Linux, AIX, Solaris, HPUnix, and
> others
> > > > all
> > > > exist?
> > > >
> > > > How um.. niave.
> > > >
> > >
> > > I don't normally bother to point out spelling errors, but I'm
> > > compelled
> > > to observe that when they occur as the last word of a snappy-comeback
> > > type post, and particularly when that comeback is accusing the
> > > previous
> > > poster of naivety... O Shock Boy -- you look such an idiot...
> > >
> > > Har har har har har (cruel laughter fading into the distance)
> >
> > All this because "Shock Boy" hit the 'i' key before the 'a' key. I
> > doubt
> > this is a rare occurance in this NG.
>
> The funny thing is.. i'm the first to admit that my typing is horrible..
> and
> I do not even worry about checking the spelling, grammar etc. I tend to
> to
> skim a whole lot of newsgroups.. and I simply don't care to take the time
> to
> proof read it. hence, evertything is a stream of consciousness.
>
> That said, picking "i" before "a" instead of "ai" is a pretty asinine
> spelling slam. If you are going to slam someone's spelling, pick a target
> that you know is not due to typing errors!
>
Normally I do, but your timing was irresistible.
--
Steve Ballantyne
------------------------------
From: Steve Ballantyne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Become a Windows Registry Expert!
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 11:03:57 +1200
In article <rNYK4.2445$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Shock
Boy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> "Steve Ballantyne" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in
> message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > In article <BGoK4.2400$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Shock
> > Boy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > <snip>
> >
> > > Ah, so Apple is the reason that Linux, AIX, Solaris, HPUnix, and
> > > others
> > > all
> > > exist?
> > >
> > > How um.. niave.
> > >
> >
> > I don't normally bother to point out spelling errors, but I'm compelled
> > to observe that when they occur as the last word of a snappy-comeback
> > type post, and particularly when that comeback is accusing the previous
> > poster of naivety... O Shock Boy -- you look such an idiot...
> >
> > Har har har har har (cruel laughter fading into the distance)
>
> Hey, I have never claimed to be a simple secretary. "Niave" is generally
> considered a typing error as it is a simple reversal of characters. Kind
> of
> like "teh" and "ti" for "the" and "it". In any event, please try to avoid
> using run-on setences if you are that desperate to point out
> spelling/grammar error's.
Run-on sentences appear to be more of a concern to North American
writers than other English users. Sir Ernest Gowers, Eric Partridge,
Harry Fieldhouse, Keith Waterhouse -- even Bill Bryson -- none of them
have anything to say about the concept. Interesting, eh?
>
> I take it you agree that the previous statement was wrong? Obviously,
> Apple
> is not the sole reason that alternatives to MS OS's exist.
>
Obviously not, but... hmmm, the beginning of this thread has dropped off
my newsgroup server.
--
Steve Ballantyne
------------------------------
From: "Colin R. Day" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Become a Windows Registry Expert!
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 23:31:43 +0000
George Graves wrote:
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Mayor
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >In article <gmgravesii-
> >[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, George Graves
> ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >>In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Marty
> ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >>wrote:
> >>
> >>>George Graves wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Don't worry, I won't. I have learned that the only thing
> >>>> that Apple could ever do to please Wintrolls who post on
> >>>> CSMA is to roll over, belly-up and die. With Apple gone,
> >>>> they wouldn't have that little nagging voice in their head
> >>>> that keeps saying "did I choose the wrong platform?" Because
> >>>> with no Apple, there would be only ONE platform and
> >>>> the Wintrolls could sleep secure in their beds with no nasty
> >>>> Apple confusing them with that pesky Macintosh.
> >>>
> >>>A common misconception. PC owners are becoming increasingly
> >>>aware that there are alternatives to MS based products, thus
> >>>there are far for than "one" platform available.
> >>
> >>With what, pray tell, to run on them?
> >
> >What do you run on your Mac, George? I keep hearing from certain
> >quarters that there's no software for it! :)
>
> I run PageMaker - No Linux, or Be equivalent
> I run QuarkXpress - No Linux, or Be equivalent
> I run FrameMaker - No Linux, or Be equivalent
> I run Adobe Illustrator - No Linux, or Be equivalent
> I run Photoshop - Well, there's GIMP, but that's NO photoshop.
> I run ViaVoice - No Linux, or Be equivalent
Didn't one of the Red Hat releases have a beta version of this?
>
> I run Freehand - No Linux, or Be equivalent
>
> You get the picture.
Yeah, you like proprietary software.
>
> --
> George Graves
Colin Day
------------------------------
From: "Colin R. Day" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Mandrake is listening! It's "Da Bomb"!
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 23:35:21 +0000
Daniel O'Nolan wrote:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Pete Goodwin) wrote:
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] (The Cat) wrote in
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> >
> > >>I've never heard of Lothar but I'll take a look it later.
> > >K-menu (lower left corner of panel) -> System -> lothar.
> > >
> > >You might also try sndconfig.
> >
> > I tried Lothar and it showed no sound card or SCSI adapter. sndconfig
> > simply hangs and consumes 98% of CPU.
> >
> > >>I think both are trying to use IRQ 11. The SB-16 is ISA but it is plug
> > >>and play. I might flip back to my old trusty SB Pro.
> > >
> > >Try it with either the 1510 OR the Sb-16 in the system and see what
> > >happens. Then add the other one after the install is complete.
> >
> > I looked at removing the sound card and realised the CD drive was attached
> > to it! I might try yanking the SCSI card out as I've only just added a disk
> > drive which isn't setup anyway.
> >
> > >Or if you still have Windows running look at device manager and see
> > >what IRQ's are assigned to the boards.
> >
> > Windows won't even install. It hangs after the final reboot. Windows has
> > worked on this system, Linux is working (but missing sound).
>
> I had the same problem with my SB 16. If it's a WAVeffects, their one of the
> shoddier cards build by crative labs, and you have to work to get them working
> right. If you have the same model, try setting it up manually as a SB 8, and
> work with the DMA settings from there (it's been a while sense I've used
> sndconfig).
If it is a WAVeffects, then read the Vibra16 part of the sound documentation
in the kernel. You have to set one of the IRQ's or DMA's to 3.
>
>
> -Dan O'Nolan
Colin Day
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jim Richardson)
Crossposted-To:
comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Become a Windows Registry Expert!
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 23:45:49 GMT
On Wed, 19 Apr 2000 17:50:26 GMT,
George Graves, in the persona of <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
brought forth the following words...:
>In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Mayor
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>>In article <gmgravesii-
>>[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, George Graves
>><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Marty
>><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>George Graves wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Don't worry, I won't. I have learned that the only thing
>>>>> that Apple could ever do to please Wintrolls who post on
>>>>> CSMA is to roll over, belly-up and die. With Apple gone,
>>>>> they wouldn't have that little nagging voice in their head
>>>>> that keeps saying "did I choose the wrong platform?" Because
>>>>> with no Apple, there would be only ONE platform and
>>>>> the Wintrolls could sleep secure in their beds with no nasty
>>>>> Apple confusing them with that pesky Macintosh.
>>>>
>>>>A common misconception. PC owners are becoming increasingly
>>>>aware that there are alternatives to MS based products, thus
>>>>there are far for than "one" platform available.
>>>
>>>With what, pray tell, to run on them?
>>
>>What do you run on your Mac, George? I keep hearing from certain
>>quarters that there's no software for it! :)
>
>I run PageMaker - No Linux, or Be equivalent
>I run QuarkXpress - No Linux, or Be equivalent
>I run FrameMaker - No Linux, or Be equivalent
Framemaker is available for linux
>I run Adobe Illustrator - No Linux, or Be equivalent
There are several structured drawing apps, but none as well
developed as Illustrator.
>I run Photoshop - Well, there's GIMP, but that's NO photoshop.
Photogenics is now available, might be worth a look.
>I run ViaVoice - No Linux, or Be equivalent
ViaVoice is available for linux, don't know re: BeOS
>I run Freehand - No Linux, or Be equivalent
>
>You get the picture.
>--
>George Graves
>
--
Jim Richardson
Anarchist, pagan and proud of it
WWW.eskimo.com/~warlock
Linux, because life's too short for a buggy OS.
------------------------------
From: Marty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Become a Windows Registry Expert!
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 00:21:39 GMT
George Graves wrote:
>
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Marty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
>
> >George Graves wrote:
> >>
> >> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Marty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> >George Graves wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> Don't worry, I won't. I have learned that the only thing that Apple
> >> >> could ever do to please Wintrolls who post on CSMA is to roll over,
> >> >> belly-up and die. With Apple gone, they wouldn't have that little
> >> >> nagging voice in their head that keeps saying "did I choose the wrong
> >> >> platform?" Because with no Apple, there would be only ONE platform
> >> >> and
> >> >> the Wintrolls could sleep secure in their beds with no nasty Apple
> >> >> confusing them with that pesky Macintosh.
> >> >
> >> >A common misconception. PC owners are becoming increasingly aware that
> >> >there are alternatives to MS based products, thus there are far for
> >> >than
> >> >"one" platform available.
> >>
> >> With what, pray tell, to run on them?
> >
> >It's called "software" I think.
>
> There just isn't enough of it for most people to get any work done.
Let's leave that up to "most people" to decide for themselves.
------------------------------
From: Monkeyboy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Become a Windows Registry Expert!
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 00:49:26 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Colin R. Day"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> George Graves wrote:
>
> > In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Mayor
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > >In article <gmgravesii-
> > >[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, George Graves
> > ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >>In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Marty
> > ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > >>wrote:
> > >>
> > >>>George Graves wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Don't worry, I won't. I have learned that the only thing
> > >>>> that Apple could ever do to please Wintrolls who post on
> > >>>> CSMA is to roll over, belly-up and die. With Apple gone,
> > >>>> they wouldn't have that little nagging voice in their head
> > >>>> that keeps saying "did I choose the wrong platform?" Because
> > >>>> with no Apple, there would be only ONE platform and
> > >>>> the Wintrolls could sleep secure in their beds with no nasty
> > >>>> Apple confusing them with that pesky Macintosh.
> > >>>
> > >>>A common misconception. PC owners are becoming increasingly
> > >>>aware that there are alternatives to MS based products, thus
> > >>>there are far for than "one" platform available.
> > >>
> > >>With what, pray tell, to run on them?
> > >
> > >What do you run on your Mac, George? I keep hearing from certain
> > >quarters that there's no software for it! :)
> >
> > I run PageMaker - No Linux, or Be equivalent
> > I run QuarkXpress - No Linux, or Be equivalent
> > I run FrameMaker - No Linux, or Be equivalent
> > I run Adobe Illustrator - No Linux, or Be equivalent
> > I run Photoshop - Well, there's GIMP, but that's NO photoshop.
> > I run ViaVoice - No Linux, or Be equivalent
>
> Didn't one of the Red Hat releases have a beta version of this?
>
> >
> > I run Freehand - No Linux, or Be equivalent
> >
> > You get the picture.
>
> Yeah, you like proprietary software.
Either that or stuff that works AND has features. Open source is great
only if it does the job. If it does not, it's free crap. Once again, you
usually get what you pay for.
M
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