Linux-Advocacy Digest #237, Volume #29 Wed, 20 Sep 00 17:13:03 EDT
Contents:
Re: [OT] Public v. Private Schools ("Sam Morris")
Re: [OT] Global warming. (was Public v. Private Schools) (Jack Troughton)
Re: [OT] Public v. Private Schools ("Sam Morris")
Re: [OT] Public v. Private Schools ("Sam Morris")
Re: Space Shuttle uses Windows software almost exclusively (dc)
Re: End-User Alternative to Windows ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Never tell me again that Windows is easy to install!!! It's a lie! ("Yannick")
Re: Never tell me again that Windows is easy to install!!! It's a lie! ("Yannick")
Re: Linux to reach NT 3.51 proportions in next 2 years (Mike Byrns)
Re: [OT] Global warming. (was Public v. Private Schools) ("Joe Malloy")
Re: [OT] Global warming. (was Public v. Private Schools) (Jeff Glatt)
Re: Space Shuttle uses Windows software almost exclusively (Keith Peterson)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Sam Morris" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: [OT] Public v. Private Schools
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 20:22:58 +0100
> >> > > > > > Except of course that the issue is correlation between gun
> >ownership
> >> > > > > > and
> >> > > > > > gun-related deaths.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > You don't have an answer for that, do you?
> >> > >
> >> > > There is no correlation between gun ownership and murder rates.
> >> >
> >> > That original quote again, folks:
> >> >
> >> > "Except of course that the issue is correlation between gun ownership
> >and
> >> > gun-related deaths."
> >> >
> >> > Spot the difference?
> >>
> >> Is death by gunshot somehow worse than death by stabbing or
> >> death by bludgeoning?
> >
> >All murders are undesireable.
>
> Why just murders? Why stop there and not include accidents
> and suicides? I suspect that those two aren't nearly
> glamorous enough.
Accidents are similarly undesireable. They are also off topic (although I
suppose it doesn't really matter here...) :)
As for suicides: I beleive that people should have the right to choose how
and when to end their own lives, as long as they don't harm others in the
process. Of course, whether they are able to make that decision rationally
is another matter.
> Besides, "gun-related death" doesn't necessarily equate to murder.
Accidents are also undesireable. As to the firing squad, we don't have one
of those in the UK any more. :)
> >> The only thing that makes "death by gunshot" bad is that it results in
> >> Death.
> >>
> >> Therefore, the CRITICAL analysis is not how many murders are committed
> >> by
> >> one method or another, but to see if limiting any option of murder
makes
> >> a dent in the overall murder rate.
> >>
> >> History shows that if you remove guns from large segments of society,
> >> that bludgeonings, stabbings, poisonings, etc. rise correspondingly to
> >> take up the slack....and often times, removing guns from law abiding
> >> citizens SIGNIFICANTLY INCREASES bludgeonings and stabbings.
> >>
> >> Therefore, removing guns from society does NOTHING to protect the
> >> citizens.
> >
> >It seems to have dramatically curtailed the number of UK schoolyard
> >shootings, which is what the new laws were designed to do in the first
place
> >(re: Dunblane tragedy).
>
> In terms of numbers, such occurences are statistical noise. It's
> not really that much to get excited about. It is quite likely that
> more lives would have been saved by focusing on a more substantive
> issue rather than one that's better for scandal and media ratings.
It is also substantially easier to impose restrictive laws such as those
governing gun ownership with the opinion of the general public behind you
than it is to impose similar laws without an immediate reason, such as a
terrible tragedy.
I don't know if that paragraph/sentence made much sense outside of my head
as I am not feeling the best at the moment. :)
Actually this has got me interested. I am going to dig up some figures on
the amounts of deaths by various means of people in the UK out of some
morbid fascination. :)
--
Cheers,
Sam
------------------------------
From: Jack Troughton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: [OT] Global warming. (was Public v. Private Schools)
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 11:52:18 -0400
"Aaron R. Kulkis" wrote:
>
> Jack Troughton wrote:
> >
> > On Wed, 20 Sep 2000 07:54:02, "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > wrote:
> >
> > >Jack Troughton wrote:
> > >>
> > >> On Mon, 18 Sep 2000 21:31:39, "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > >> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> >Jack Troughton wrote:
> > >> >>
> > >> >> "Aaron R. Kulkis" wrote:
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > Jason Bowen wrote:
> > >> >> > >
> > >> >> > > Bob Germer wrote:
> > >> >> > >
> > >> >> > > > On 09/18/2000 at 06:38 AM,
> > >> >> > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jason Bowen) said:
> > >> >> > > >
> > >> >> > > > > Except I didn't do that. I pointed to some facts and didn't make
>claims
> > >> >> > > > > as fact. CFC's are man made and the CO2 level is verifiably higher
>than
> > >> >> > > > > it has been in 600k years.
> > >> >> > > >
> > >> >> > > > You claim the CO2 level is higher now that it was 600 years ago based
>on
> > >> >> > > > experiments on artic ice. You claim that CO2 levels are higher in North
> > >> >> > > > America when the facts prove they are in deficit!
> > >> >> > >
> > >> >> > > You don't understand what is being discussed. North America as a
>continent produces less CO2
> > >> >> > > than the plant life on it consumes. The rest of the world produces way
>more than is consumed.
> > >> >> > > It is called the addtive property of numbers and perhaps and elementary
>algebra class will help
> > >> >> > > you understand.
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > Then maybe you ought to convince those OTHER countries to reform THEIR
> > >> >> > ways, and keep your fucking opinions to yourself in this country.
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > MORON
> > >> >>
> > >> >> You really are into silencing dissent, aren't you? I was under the
> > >> >
> > >> >No. I'm into getting the Ignorami among us to stop spreading their
> > >> >baseless PROPAGANDA.
> > >>
> > >> How do you know it's propaganda?
> >
> > Note: No response.
Still no answer on this question. C'mon Aaron, tell us why it's
propaganda.
> > >> >> impression that the intellectual foundations of the US system of
> > >> >> governance were all about making sure that people didn't keep their
> > >> >> opinions to themselves.
> > >> >
> > >> >Are you saying arguing that it is good to NOT oppose liars....
> > >>
> > >> You can oppose liars all you want... until the method of opposition is
> > >> silencing them. Or have you forgotten the right to speech enshrined in
> > >> the US consititution?
> > >
> > >I'm calling on YOU to be a good man and STOP SPREADING LIES.
> >
> > Exactly what lies is it you're accusing me of?
> >
>
> The Eco-bullshit propaganda...
Sorry, that does not suffice as an answer. What lie exactly is it
you are accusing me of? Go find a quote where I lied. 'Eco-bullshit
propaganda' is a nice vagueness that may satisfy the weak-minded
paranoiacs among the audience, but hardly suffices as anything more
than a wild accusation by the intellectually bankrupt. Try again.
Jack
Montreal QC
CANADA
------------------------------
From: "Sam Morris" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: [OT] Public v. Private Schools
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 21:04:28 +0100
> > > > > > > > > > > In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Aaron R.
Kulkis"
> > > > > > > > > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > Britain recently outlawed handguns. Murder rates
have
> > > > > > > > > > > > tripled
> > > > > > > > > > > > since.
> > > > > > > > > > > > Australia outlawed ALL firearms. Murder rates have
> > > > > > > > > > > > quintupled.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > So...quite obviously, the correlation between gun
> > ownership
> > > > > > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > > > murder is tenous at best.
> > > >
> > > > Any refs for this??? I must have been dreaming when Michael Diamond
won
> > > > Olympic gold medal trap shooting yesterday then?? Maybe he was
using a
> > toy
> > > > shotgun???
> > >
> > > Who did Micheal Diamond murder?
> > >
> > >
> > <snip ridiculous sig>
> >
> > Again,
> >
> > What the hell are you talking about.
>
>
> YOU are the one who dragged him into a conversation about murder...
> so, perhaps YOU could tell us what the fuck the connection is.
>
> So far, I see ZERO, other than that he supports my view of the
> typical LAW ABIDING GUN OWNER.
Then you're blind, or stupid, or both. The FULL text of the message you
replied to above (message news:l2Wx5.54431$[EMAIL PROTECTED]
if you think I'm fabricating) is:
<Any refs for this??? I must have been dreaming when Michael Diamond won
<Olympic gold medal trap shooting yesterday then?? Maybe he was using a toy
<shotgun???
<
<Has the murder rate trippled in Aus???? Not from what I see, although I
dont
<have any figures to quote
Which you deliberatly failed to comprehend.
<FYI:
<
<http://cs.nyu.edu/phd_students/amygreen/Links/gunslong.html :
<In 1992, handguns were used to murder 36 people in Sweden, 97 in
<Switzerland, 60 in Japan, 128 in Canada, 33 in Great Britain, 13 in
<Australia, and 13,495 in the United States.
<(Embassies and foreign crime reporting agencies, FBI Uniform Crime Reports)
<
<and from the same page:
<
<The presence of a gun in the home triples the risk of homicide in the home
<and increases by five the chance of a suicide"
<
<New England Journal of Medicine
Which you conveniently sidestepped, snipping it from your reply. Is your
newsreader broken, or are you just a stupid biggot with blinkers around your
eyes? I ask for information only.
[Preposterously bandwidth-wasting signature snipped]
--
Cheers,
Sam
------------------------------
From: "Sam Morris" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: [OT] Public v. Private Schools
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 21:05:57 +0100
Aaron - you're ranting again.
--
Cheers,
Sam
------------------------------
From: dc <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy
Subject: Re: Space Shuttle uses Windows software almost exclusively
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 15:15:50 -0500
On Wed, 20 Sep 2000 15:37:03 -0400, Peter Ammon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>Mike Byrns wrote:
>>
>> You mean Jeff Goldblume? The same Jeff Goldblume that has appeared in
>> several Apple Computer television commercials? The one that's on the
>> Apple payroll? Do you know that Apple pays big bucks in hollywood to
>> get it's computers in "cool" movies like Independence Day?
>
>I don't believe you. Can you back this up?
You're seriously stating you don't think they've ever paid for product
placement? C'mon!
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux,comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: End-User Alternative to Windows
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 20:14:08 GMT
In article <8qasqn$im1$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Brian V. Smith) wrote:
> Really? Which ones were those that came with the source code?
IBSYS, SCOPE, SOS, MTS, OS/360, CP/67, TSS/360 and many more. Several of
these had fixes distributed only in source form; you had to reassemble
in order to install the fix.
--
--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
"A BIND is a terrible thing to waste"
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: "Yannick" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.ms.windows.advocacy,comp.ms.windows-nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Never tell me again that Windows is easy to install!!! It's a lie!
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 20:20:22 GMT
Nigel Feltham <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> a écrit dans le message :
8q5mqf$env3j$[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> What about hardware where there are no drivers available from the
> manufacturer either
If it is written on the box that your hardware supports Win98, it doesn't
mean it supports WinME. Either you bought hardware from a company that
always provides drivers for newer OSes, and you can expect that one will
become available soon, possibly if users request it ; or you bought it from
a company that had minimal drivers available, and then you could only _hope_
for it to run on newer software, not _require_ it.
Yannick.
------------------------------
From: "Yannick" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.ms.windows.advocacy,comp.ms.windows-nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Never tell me again that Windows is easy to install!!! It's a lie!
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 20:20:23 GMT
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> a écrit dans le message :
8q86h4$f0k$[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> If it is the hardware manufacturer's not Microsoft's fault for Windows ME
> not working with given a piece of hardware, then why is it Linux's fault
> when there is hardware that does not work with Linux?
The problem is different. There are many people around saying that Windows
is crap and that Linux is wonderful. There are people who say that hardware
support for Linux is better than for Windows. And there are people saying
the contrary. And people saying neither the
one or the other.
I don't mean to discuss whether this is true or not here. People have
problems running their hardware with Windows and less problems with linux.
The contrary is also true.
If an OS doesn't support your hardware, you think "well, I'll change my
hardware or get another OS" (unless you have the ability and desire to write
your own drivers, of course). The particularity of linux is that the people
closely related to the system are writing their own software for the system
in order to fight the "applications barrier to entry" set up by the windows
dominant position. So people tend to expect linux to provide its own
drivers, although it's not necessarily logical. This feeling is reinforced
by the fact that some people present linux as the hero against the windows
evil, and a hero is generally able to look after itself without other help
(well, in really simple stories at least :-).
There are several reasons why people would accuse _linux_ of not supporting
some hardware, among which :
* They listened to people, closely related to linux development and/or
distribution, claiming that linux supports nearly all hardware, when in
fact, like all OSes, Linux may have problems running some hardware.
* They are fighting linux in the same way as _some_ linux advocates are
fighting windows with the same kind of arguments.
Whether or not this accusation is justified or not is not my point here.
Yannick.
------------------------------
From: Mike Byrns <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux to reach NT 3.51 proportions in next 2 years
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 15:21:09 -0500
Loren Petrich wrote:
>
> In article <8q99ub$ab7$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> R.E.Ballard ( Rex Ballard ) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >In article <VKtu5.43238$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> > "Chad Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >> Jesus, for bashing Microsoft so much, you guys sure try hard to
> >> copy everything they do!
>
> >I think there's actually a symbiosis going on here. Microsoft has
> >recently adopted some concepts from KDE and GNOME for Windows ME,
> >and Gnome and KDE have been sprucing up applications to make them more
> >like Windows.
> >
> >Ironically, FVWM95, which provided a "Windows 95 look and feel", never
> >really caught on. Most people prefered KDE which was a look-and-feel
> >clone of CDE used in AIX, Solaris, HP_UX, and other UNIX flavors.
> >Others preferred Afterstep which was a clone of NeXtStep.
KDE is *not* a clone of CDE. CDE more closely resembles Windows 3.1,
not Windows 95. I use it every day on AIX. KDE window frames and
button placement are virtually identical to Windows 95. See
http://www.kde.org/screenshots/medium/matthiase1.jpg.
> Alternatively, some Linux-GUI designers may be copying Windows
> because that's what they are most familiar with. Or they may be trying to
> make it easier to Windows users to use Linux.
Or they may be failing to innovate, preferring rather to ride on the
coat-tails of Windows UI success.
> Why not explore new possibilities? Or less-well-known GUI's like
> the Amiga one or the Acorn Archimedes RISCOS one or ...
Why stick with these two dimensional desktop metaphors anyway?
PARC-style desktops are not the be all and end all of human-computer
interaction. I'd like to navigate into folders like I walk into a room
in Unreal Tournament. I'm not saying that it should look like that but
the concept of being able to "look around" with the mouse while going
forward and backward with the arrow keys (of the mouse wheel maybe :-)
is so natural. Imagine navigating "up" over a landscape or some such
construct and getting a "higher view". You see something that by rough
shape, color or other attribute discernible from a distance, interests
you. You move the mouse to "look" at it and move towards it. As you
get closer more information is displayed progressively until you can
either dive inside it (if it's a container) or it opens if it's not.
------------------------------
From: "Joe Malloy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: [OT] Global warming. (was Public v. Private Schools)
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 20:32:03 GMT
> > Nope. There was nothing in Aaron's post which in any way diminished our
> > high opinion of Perdue.
>
> It's Purdue. The university is named for John Purdue, who donated the
land for its establishment
> back in the 1860s.
Germer's just <ahem> too chicken to respond to this... (ba-da-bum)
:)
-Joe
--
"USB, idiot, stands for Universal Serial Bus. There is no power on the
output socket of any USB port I have ever seen" - Bob Germer
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jeff Glatt)
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: [OT] Global warming. (was Public v. Private Schools)
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 20:56:25 GMT
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Nathaniel Jay Lee)
>Normally I don't resort to what I like to call
>'Kulkinesque' type statements. But from what little of
>[Tholen's] rambling I've seen, you are quite deserving.
And *yet another* comment for the archives
------------------------------
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Keith Peterson)
Subject: Re: Space Shuttle uses Windows software almost exclusively
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 20:57:04 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Matthew Majka <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>That's funny. In the time I've been here I have YET to
>see windows used in any real-time application. UNIX
>is everywhere (SGI and Sun primarily), some RTOSs such
>as VxWorks, LynxOS, and PowerMAX_OS, a suprising number
>of Macs are around, and the usual Windows box when
>someone needs a generic computer.
While I prefer UNIX as the platform of choice for realtime, I guess someone
should point out that many realtime systems DO run on Windows NT.
http://www.gensym.com/expert_operations/STORIES/ashland.htm
Gensym's G2 environment for Windows and for UNIX and a couple other platforms)
is marketed for Realtime applications. I doubt they would continue to invest
in development for NT if nobody was buying it.
------------------------------
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